14/40

I'm switching my vote back to gumshoe.

Koshi here are my brief thoughts on Shape.

I have not played with mafia Shape and in the town games I recall (nutcracker, which I've hosted, newbie 18) he has never stuck out to me as overly townie. His volume to content ratio had always been high. His AFKness this game is obviously NAI. There were two posts in his filter (I mentioned it before, honestly can't remember the numbers now) that showed some sort of townie thinking, but the thing I'm trying to take into context is that if someone isn't around to play they also aren't going to make the greatest mover/shaker/impact reads you are seeking.

This doesn't make him town but I want to get the info I can in mylo on him, which is why I'm presently frustrated at his play.

The other thing that I want to also re-review - and that I also draw attention to - is gumshoe's case on GB at the time it happened. I know there were several points he made that were identical to my concerns. I saw the points he made were drawn out at a stretch with GB which after the time stamp error I concluded were town on town. But a key caveat now that I see in the manner he's pushing me are the points where he's reframing the arguments to make me look mafia.

There was a long bullet point list he drew on GB and there were some bullet points on the list that also looked meh or not necessarily indicative of mafia. I dismissed it at the time, focusing on the points that were similar to mine.

Seeing what he's doing with me this cycle, reviewing his pushes on GB and comparing those to his play this cycle will should give the remaining town here a better idea whether that was confirmation bias or malicious.

Going to try and get that on my next break.

Half the Sky

Germany9029 Posts

May 03 2016 14:01 GMT

#1164

15/40

your vote on me has little to do with koshi, you voted me for efficiencies sake and also because you set it up earlier with the gb/me waffle. You can always vote shape at any time (as I pointed out) so for the moment makes sense to vote the guy you a) set up on earlier b) is attacking you.

No I voted you because the manner in which you voted me exposed a double standard. If Shapelog pulled the same thing you better believe I'd be questioning the why and the motives.

Your associative read on SL/me does not take into account thread sentiment and the manner in which Damdred was trying/debating to lead the lynch on me. like I said before what sicklucker did after the 6th vote on Fecalfeast is WIFOM. THE TIMING OF HIS VOTE TO KOSHI OR ANYONE ELSE IS IRRELEVANT. those make your points invalid.

You made a point about NK wifom and Koshi and the point in my response to that is that it didn't make you any more town or me any more mafia, and that is the way you were trying to portray it earlier.

Half the Sky

Germany9029 Posts

May 03 2016 17:36 GMT

#1201

18/40

On May 04 2016 01:34 Koshi wrote:
Well between this ridiculous oath and the modwarning I guess gumshoe is now confirmed town. There was no BM at all in this game, just some an over emotional gumshoe. Or my stubborness gets seen as BM now. But I don't see how that is possible.

So with the mod confirming this isn't an act I am forced to vote HTS.

##unvote
##vote HTS

I still think Shape is mafia but I guess I sheep the confirmed town.

Skimmed the last page and I think much of the preceding play speaks for itself. I couldn't get to the GB case contrast unfortunately but I'll just say this much, gumshoe's gameplay in mylo and elsewhere revolves around a significant amount of self meta and WIFOM.

I feel I've been able to demonstrate the holes in most if not all his points, he's repeatedly taken points out of context on me (and possibly GB) and with the emotional outburst he is doing what he needs to do - survive. Town need to find mafia and scum need to survive. The scepticism on Shape isnt and wasn't there.

I'll also state that I don't understand why emotional appeal with or without mod warning confirms him as town - the vast majority of mods do not go for a direct modkill outside racist/sexist/homophobic but I digress.

I have also seen scum go for emotional appeal and/or look to fake things like these to get what they desire - recent examples
1 ritoky discussing his broken hand to dismiss a push against him on Outlaw (he wasn't lying but it was how the story was used)
2 Fidei cursing out his mafia teammate Nocturne Mage in the thread in Newbie 18
3 Onegu planned/drafted a fit of rage in the Outlaw scum qt and asked me as a cohost whether his fake rage was enough for us to warn him.

My point is scum are capable of faking rage or acting as such out of frustration because they are on the verge of being found out.

I'd be less bitterly disappointed if I had a legit case made against me based on scummy things I actually did or taken the multiple angles approach combining VCA in the appropriate context votes were made.

I'd be less disappointed if the cases being made against me even discussed the mistakes I made like discussing my push on Tictock or why Fecalfeast or GB one liners spooked me to make poor calls on them.

In any case I have to leave the thread, I am spending my entire evening with a client and I cannot return by end of day.

Even if I'm mislynched I'm now 99% confident I've found the final scum, my inability to push past this is due to work.

Half the Sky

Germany9029 Posts

May 03 2016 17:41 GMT

#1202

On May 04 2016 02:19 gumshoe wrote:
also shape

"a fuck, koshis right shapes been so useless forever, I guess he just wasn't thinking about jumping onto ff, that and dyh must have bussed knowing he wouldnt be too active/listened to"

THAT is how fucking easy it would be to scum read you. My reasoning for hard tring people is often very diffrent from most players, which makes it easy to discard because they dont see the sense in my logic in the first place. Of course im not doing that because im town and it DOES make sense to me and its all I need.

Hts has convinced far better players than me that she was town (damdred and koshi) in this very game, I would never willingly be in this position as scum.

my scum game is lazy, I dont have a single one over 4 pages, I'm just not that motivated to play as scum. I would never create more work for myself.

also forgive me for assuming that you were going to vote me once you started referring to me as a douchy super villain -_-

19/40

More self meta.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

If Shape is mafia, which I highly doubt at this point, town can whinge at me for my part in throwing in mylo again but being confident you're scum, I hope this is a lesson learnt for everyone else, I know emotional appeal has been a complaint from players as both alignments.

Even when true (see examples) and regardless of how a mod reacts I think people should more critically think how the emotion is used and what your intentions are.

The contrast in play was simple.

I'm not playing to survive, I can only go so far.

You, however are.

Half the Sky

Germany9029 Posts

May 03 2016 17:49 GMT

#1203

20/40

I'm done.

I urge you to look through the cases, the gameplay, the associative reads and the intentions behind gumshoe's play. I think today and day 1 gives the most obvious evidence where the final scum is and I hope Koshi you'll think about what I said at least, I can't really control anything that happens after this.

GGs everyone. Regardless of what happens, I really hope town will find a way but if not, hopefully postgame will be constructive.

Disformation and NocturneMage will both discuss my gameplay among other things, in the postgame.