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On February 01 2016 06:19 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 06:14 Trfel wrote:
Like I've made it clear at least once that I am NOT saying that the Ikidomari flip makes Eden mafia. I'm saying that it would make Eden look town if Ikidomari flipped town. It's effectively the same thing. You are reinforcing the narrative that Eden tried to save his scumbro by scumreading him then unscumreafing him You're simply wrong, so there's that. That's not what I'm saying and this is obvious for anyone who cares to read my posts.
Eden was talking about associations, but he said that I had to share my thoughts before he shared his. So I shared all of the thoughts that I had to try and get Eden to give his reasoning. Which he finally gave. And which I disagree with, because it doesn't mean anything, and I can provide a million reasons why it is flawed, but I'll wait for later because evidently I'm being a bit obnoxious right now and should take a break.
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On February 01 2016 06:32 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 05:49 Trfel wrote:
Eden, that's not what I said.
I said that you, as mafia, wouldn't go back and forth so many times about Ikidomari, because there's no point. It's much more direct to just make a read and stick with it, or maybe change it once, but not like you did. Unless he is mafia, then I can see why you might do that as mafia.
It is by no means an accusation or a reason to suspect you as being mafia.
You said that you can't possibly be mafia with Ikidomari, I'm interested to hear why. See nested quote.
I don't believe that Ikidomari flipping scum means that Eden is town. That's what that sentence is trying to say. "I can see you doing this as mafia" doesn't mean "I can't see you doing this as town" or "you are mafia".
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On February 01 2016 06:53 darthfoley wrote:
I also don't think that Trfel is confirmed town because of the Ikido vote/flip. It's smart mafia play. Pretty sure there's 1 mafia voting for Ikido there. Potentially getting him off the lynch block with no good reasons for a second time in 2 days wouldn't look particularly good.
PMT hasn't provided much but she's basically been all over Ikido iirc. Eden kind of explained why it makes him likely town already. I'm relatively confident they are town. Of course i'll look at some filters again, because I haven't been able to follow yesterday + today's dialogue focused enough for my liking Why do you say this?
Also, you do realize that we only have one mislynch, right? I wouldn't say that lynching someone for being useless is a good idea.
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Just please, please, give scott31337 a chance to be read one way or another. Not doing so is really stupid.
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Nooniansoong, hypothetically, if I flipped town, what would you think? Or have you not thought about this yet?
Just humor me.
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Waiting for scott31337.
The wait is unbearable 
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I really feel like Ikidomari would have generally townread his teammates.
I felt that this pointed to JesusIncarnate being town slightly, and his reads on Tumblewood seemed really weird:
"looks like this is his first game, or one of his first, went very pro-active early, maybe a bit over-aggressive on the scum calls, but started making more town reads later on. I don't know, comes off as bad town trying too hard, or bad mafia to me, i'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. If I had to give a solid answer, I'd say he's bad town who changed his mind a bit too often in an attempt to get reactions out of people, falling over himself trying to avoid being mis-lynched."
""Vote Jesus unless he posts something to convince me he's town"- Jesus posts nothing to convince anyone he's town, tumble is clean and followed through on what he said, didn't join in any other bandwagoning. This points to town based purely on voting patterns."
It really feels like he's making up reasons to townread Tumblewood, but at the same time give himself an out. Like, see in the second quote, "this points to town based purely on voting patterns." He didn't limit the read to just voting patterns for anyone else in his list.
Anyway, I haven't read over this much in a while, but here's what I was thinking when I was analyzing his filter yesterday, for what it's worth. Not sure when I'll have time for closer analysis.
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I just really really don't feel like Ikidomari was playing to get bussed. He seemed to be really trying to survive, see the post I brought up about the dissonance between "lynch me" and "here's my defense". That's playing to survive. If anything, his first reads post was an attempt to survive, not planned to get bussed. The second reads post is a bit arguable, I suppose, but given the drastic differences in style between that one and the first one it feels like he was trying to make changes.
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My statements above were really unclear, weren't they.
By townread, I meant not scumread. And Ikidomari's first reads post was definitely an attempt to survive, not a bus play, and this isn't debatable.
Any other questions, feel free to ask.
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On February 01 2016 10:28 nooniansoong wrote:
and trfel he wasn't trying that hard to survive, he had a 2 page filter. Filter length and desire to survive versus intentionally being bussed as part of a plan are very different things. I have shown why at least initially, Ikidomari was NOT planning on being bussed, and was attempting to survive.
Again, if you'd like to DISCUSS, that is more than welcome. If you'd like to say that I am wrong just because you feel like it, I don't care to discuss with you.
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On February 01 2016 10:49 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 10:47 Trfel wrote:On February 01 2016 10:28 nooniansoong wrote:
and trfel he wasn't trying that hard to survive, he had a 2 page filter. Filter length and desire to survive versus intentionally being bussed as part of a plan are very different things. I have shown why at least initially, Ikidomari was NOT planning on being bussed, and was attempting to survive. Again, if you'd like to DISCUSS, that is more than welcome. If you'd like to say that I am wrong just because you feel like it, I don't care to discuss with you. We aren't talking about being bussed. we are talking about bussing. Just because he wasn't planning on being bussed doesn't mean he didn't bus himself. He was acutely aware that there was a great possibility of him being lynched both d1 and d2. Okay, that actually makes some sense. Thank you.
I guess I'm a bit biased because I know that I'm town and that Onegu was town, so I know that at least 2/3 of his scumreads were town. But that's not something that you know.
At least this is better than the "you are scum because you can't possibly think this" after I share all my reasons for thinking this, and you don't say anything about my reasons.
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Does anyone else think it's funny how often Eden has brought up his going back and forth with darthfoley last game?
And how adamant Eden and Ikidomari are that they can't be scum together?
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Nooniansoong is correct.
But _MexicanAlien, what do you mean by "the way Trfel's been acting"? (paraphrased) As in, what do you find weird about my actions?
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I thought you were open to discussion. As in, a two way street.
I guess not. So, never mind. Which is why I didn't respond in the first place, for the record.
Also, I agreed that nooniansoong's point about my being the first one to vote for Ikidomari (in and of itself) saying anything about my alignment, as opposed to a townread. Which directly contradicts what you say. Please try considering what you are saying, and read things with an open mind, it will help you in the long term.
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And if you want to know how to do the hyperlink thing:
[ url=(link) ]visible text[ /url ]
Without the spaces, and with a link in place of the (link). You can quote this post to see an example of the code for the link.
example link
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On February 01 2016 12:33 _MexicanAlien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 12:25 Trfel wrote:
I thought you were open to discussion. As in, a two way street.
I guess not. So, never mind. Which is why I didn't respond in the first place, for the record.
Also, I agreed that nooniansoong's point about my being the first one to vote for Ikidomari (in and of itself) saying anything about my alignment, as opposed to a townread. Which directly contradicts what you say. Please try considering what you are saying, and read things with an open mind, it will help you in the long term. This is an excuse. If you were town, you would want to defend yourself. I'm open to you (two way street), but not if you just ignore my points. Using the two way street analogy, I'm driving my Trfel wagon down the street, but going not too fast so as to be aware of Trfel and what he says in grits His defense. Trfel is just sitting on the side of the road refusing to do anything. Anything but complain. This is not true,and you know it.On January 29 2016 09:43 _MexicanAlien wrote:Scum quote of the year: Courtesy of resident scumbag Trfel. On January 29 2016 13:55 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Trfel, no one called you stupid. We called you scum. Stop playing the victim. You voted for tumble when there was practically no chance of his being lynched. Is honestly ******* annoying how you act like you were unjustly treated.
I noticed You ignored my very convincing post about you.
Trfel for Mafia! I could go on and on.
I don't talk to people like this, because it serves no purpose, is torture, and can't possibly convince them of anything.
If you're going to interpret everything to fit your conclusion, no matter how blatantly you need to lie and misinterpret things to do so, then of course you'll still see your conclusion as right. And there's nothing I can do to change this, because you interpret the things that I say falsely such as to make me mafia.
Please don't accuse me of not trying. I have been trying as hard as I can this game. Look at Day 2, at the analysis that I made and the discussion I caused, while most people were largely passive. You disagree with my analysis, I get that, but you can't deny that if I am town here, I have been trying. Because I've been trying to play this game and to help town win to the very best of my abilities, including avoiding pointless discussion when it's obvious.
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On February 01 2016 12:38 _MexicanAlien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 12:33 Trfel wrote:And if you want to know how to do the hyperlink thing: [ url=(link) ]visible text[ /url ] Without the spaces, and with a link in place of the (link). You can quote this post to see an example of the code for the link. example link How do you find the link? Post id? Is it possible from a phone? It's from the right side of the post, where the date is. On a computer, you right click -> copy post link.
Alternatively, you can link like:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/502408-newbie-student-mafia-xix?page=55#1096
Which links to the post number and page. But I don't think that this is practical to do from a phone.
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On February 01 2016 12:36 _MexicanAlien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 09:43 _MexicanAlien wrote:Scum quote of the year: I switched my vote to him because his reads didn't seem very interesting Courtesy of resident scumbag Trfel. I know this isn't relevant anymore to the case, but let's not forget this gem.  See, this is what I'm getting at.
You can't blame me for avoiding you when you're rubbing my face in the mud every time you're in the thread. Calling me scum is one thing, this kind of attitude is different.
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On February 01 2016 12:45 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 12:44 Trfel wrote:On February 01 2016 12:36 _MexicanAlien wrote:On January 29 2016 09:43 _MexicanAlien wrote:Scum quote of the year: I switched my vote to him because his reads didn't seem very interesting Courtesy of resident scumbag Trfel. I know this isn't relevant anymore to the case, but let's not forget this gem. See, this is what I'm getting at. You can't blame me for avoiding you when you're rubbing my face in the mud every time you're in the thread. Calling me scum is one thing, this kind of attitude is different. Yeah this guy is a piece of shit and makes me want to policy lynch him tbh. Eden, "he did it first" isn't a good reason.
Please, regardless of your alignment, and regardless of his alignment, don't do this.
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On February 01 2016 12:49 Eden1892 wrote:
Don't do what? Rid the thread of a useless, toxic player? What I meant was, don't say those things. And if you absolutely must, which you shouldn't, bu anyway, please separate gameplay from personality.
I believe the guideline is, "that play was idiotic" and "your play this game is idiotic" is okay and "you are idiotic" is not.
But no, even if you're being serious, which I can't imagine you are, regardless of alignment, he can't be lynched unless there are actual reasons to say that he is mafia and you know this. Because he's been by far the most aggressive to me, and I don't want to lynch him, so you can't do so.
@_MexicanAlien, I did answer many of the concerns you raised with my play, even if not directly. If you would like I can go back through and make sure to answer completely. I'd just really appreciate it if you discuss instead of criticize and call me scum without leaving any room for actual discussion and thinking. "You're scum" is one thing, "you're scum and here, I'll taunt and insult you" is another.
@darthfoley, my initial thinking is to lynch Tumblewood and that my list post is correct, but now that I actually have more time and stuff has happened I need to look much more carefully. I'm not sure when I will get a chance to do this, I'm quite busy.
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EPT
