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On January 17 2016 07:48 DoYouHas wrote:
@NM- how are you feeling about a HF lynch right now?
Ignoring any of the mod-related stuff...
Like reading his interaction with rayn first impression was town on town before I AFKed. Then he question's rayn's logic and thinks I'm mafia for that. My only caveat with HF is that he's not looking at the rest of my play, then again, that's probably NAI since he makes calls off one post.
Like right now, I feel more sold on Palmar/geript, I see rayn is saying Palmar's play is NAI (ignoring his weekend going afk), geript pushing ASM for meh reasons and not addressing the ongoing Ceph/ASM interactions...
I'm reading Trfel, and I feel there's a few more things I don't like either, his use of disinterest in pushing reads (????). He's scumreading HF's tone as aggressive but part of that aggressive tone is because of the whole mod situation which I'm trying to ignore. I wasn't around present with HF when he was alive in Outlaw, but I know from ages ago when I obsed Gaiden he was pretty aggressive as town pushing his scumreads, so that could be considered NAI.
Like from Fullmetal, Trfel takes NAI points and makes them scummy...and if HF is going to be aggressive in pushing townreads and he's not pushing.....he's going to get scumread either way.
I'm just feeling really meh about Trfel and at this moment, his cases are really poor and I'm just really struggling to understand why people are townreading him (you, Damdred).
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Nope, I'm not flipping scum. And Trfel's push on me is pretty darn scummy.
Also you said I was pretty disinterested and comparing myself to ritoky so where do you stand on that now given what I've been trying to do and what ritoky has done since he last afked?
On January 17 2016 01:13 Trfel wrote:
I guess I could be willing to lynch NocturneMage. I don't think I want to lynch ritoky. It feels like NocturneMage is much more likely to be mafia.
I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips.
My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to.
NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me.
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think?
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On January 17 2016 08:00 Trfel wrote:Holyflare  Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia?
Not considering material (or not furthering why what I've laid out since you last AFKed that it's scummy) and keeping the same stance doesn't make you look any more townie at all.
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Also why are people (besides Damdred) ignoring geript and Palmar?
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Question for overall thread sentiment since there's still quite a decent amount of votes on Trfel..
I can see how his cases aren't exactly the most rock solid ones, but am I missing something really obvious?
Other than him being somewhat wishywashy, I can't find any ill intent as in intentionally trying to make a player look off worse than what they are. There's a difference between cases not being perfect and cases manipulated with bad intentions, and I honestly don't see the latter when I look at Trfel's play. It doesn't feel coming from mafia at all, being very co-operative, not shitting the thread up while posting a lot (he seems to be trying to create useful discussion or progress the thread in most posts of his?).
So why is he one of the main lynch targets w/ 3 votes?
Going to wait for the NM case(s), and would like to hear more opinions about my case/push on Alot. I still think what I said makes sense, and feel it'd be pretty unnatural for a townie to act as such. Do people really think he has been trying to make things happen instead of contently doing enough to give the impression he's participating?
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On January 17 2016 08:16 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:00 Trfel wrote:Holyflare Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia? Not considering material (or not furthering why what I've laid out since you last AFKed that it's scummy) and keeping the same stance doesn't make you look any more townie at all. I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say here, do you mind rephrasing this more simply/directly?
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@NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia 
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
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On January 17 2016 08:17 NocturneMage wrote:
Also why are people (besides Damdred) ignoring geript and Palmar?
I'd still lynch him in spite of me agreeing with him about Trfel. That's easily something scum Palmar can pick on a town Trfel for doing. Or even a mafia partner Trfel, but that's less likely since he's calling for a vig shot on him.
At any rate I'm not sure Palmar is mafia, but the activity and shit-giving% between the OG game and the reroll are like night and day. Problem is the same can be said about others, and it can't make them all mafia.
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VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me.
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Trfel - re post 426
On January 17 2016 01:13 Trfel wrote:
I guess I could be willing to lynch NocturneMage. I don't think I want to lynch ritoky. It feels like NocturneMage is much more likely to be mafia.
I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips.
My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to.
NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me.
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think?
This is your most substantial argument against me and as far as I'm aware, your only one.
When you re-enter the thread, or earlier before you afked you are trying to get others to discuss me.
You return to the thread when DYH votes me and then maintain your scumread on me after a number of things have transpired in the thread.
If I'm your top scumread, you should have noticed any and all of the material I've posted, so I want to know what in that you've found scummy and/or why you would maintain I'm mafia trying to fit in.
At the time Holyflare was getting lynched, it's early in the day and everyone is still trying to figure shit out. I'm purposely ignoring the entire modconfirm/administrative stuff and just trying to play mafia, regardless of HF's alignment there are 2 mafia (in the event HF is mafia) so just centring things around him is a cop-out. My initial analysis was made off a conversation, I tried to read damn filters and I'm still trying to understand how you are coming to the conclusions you are about him. I might not be seeing the same shit you are, but that doesn't make me mafia.
And even if I shouldn't lynch you because you're town and I'm making a mistake as town, I am also concerned at the people that are doing dick all and going ignored if we're all town and tearing each other apart. And why there's no commentary on that.
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On January 17 2016 08:23 Trfel wrote:
VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me.
It's based on how you gave your original mafia read and based on how you're approaching the game so far. I don't know if you responded to my original point or not, I haven't fully read the thread, but it was basically that your initial accusation post felt weak and obligatory.
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On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote:@NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
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i am here now, i haven't read much since my last post. i tried to then i saw more shit fighting and got de-motivated again.
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On January 17 2016 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:23 Trfel wrote:
VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me. It's based on how you gave your original mafia read and based on how you're approaching the game so far. I don't know if you responded to my original point or not, I haven't fully read the thread, but it was basically that your initial accusation post felt weak and obligatory. If you must know, I was attempting to save a game that I was worried would need to be aborted, again.
About half of my reasons to scumread ritoky were fluff, about half were genuine reasons. Did they warrant a vote? No. Was I actually suspicious of him? Yes, but I have learned from experience that if I say the level of suspicion that I actually feel, no one listens because I'm apparently too wishy-washy to talk to.
I've been trying to solve the game and work with people throughout, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that my approach to the game is scummy.
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So my thinking for a scum NM basically comes down to these two points, which tie together.
1. Strange approach to HF and rayn. NM's initial read is that their scumming eachother was town on town. NM is scumreading Trfel. NM isn't trying to convince people off of the very likely to be lynched HF when he has a townread on HF. Particularly strange since he also has a townread on HF's prime pusher, rayn. It is even stranger when the secondary wagon which has momentum is Trfel.
2. Something that NM was advised of last game by HTS after-the-fact was that something he does as town is to call out when people are using things to call others scum that do not make them scum. The lack of him doing that was one of the ways she was sure he was scum. This game, he is doing that. But he isn't doing it to stop a push on HF.
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Nm is probably town, tell me who to lynch and I'll follow you because idc about eod
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On January 17 2016 08:29 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote:@NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect. I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that? Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him? Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it? I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
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why is nm town damdred? i got no read on him cuz i have always just been mafia and known his alignment before this.
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To clarify point 2. In this game it looks like he is calling out bad reasons to call others scum as an end in itself, not as a means to something. Which points to focusing on appearance, which is scummy.
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EPT
