Newbie Student Mafia XVIII - Page 3

disformation

Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 15:10 GMT

#1191

Vote Count - Day 3

GlowingBear (5): NocturneMage, GiygaS, Kmatt, nooniansoong, mderg
mderg (2): Fecalfeast, Fidei86

Not Voting (1): GlowingBear

At this time, GlowingBear is slated to be lynched.
Day 3 ends in on Wednesday, Jan 06 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).

The voting thread is here.
Only votes there will be counted.

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Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 17:00 GMT

#1214

Vote Count - Day 3

GlowingBear (5): NocturneMage, GiygaS, Kmatt, nooniansoong, mderg
mderg (2): Fecalfeast, Fidei86
GiygaS (1): GlowingBear

At this time, GlowingBear is slated to be lynched.
Day 3 ends in on Wednesday, Jan 06 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).

The voting thread is here.
Only votes there will be counted.

disformation

Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 21:47 GMT

#1232

Vote Count - Day 3

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Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 22:02 GMT

#1251

disformafia's amazing post game rant

Part 1: (Co-)Hosting

Most importantly, a huge shout out to kitaman27 for hosting this game, letting me co-host and coping with my PM spam! I sent kitaman27 a METRIC FUCKTON of PM's over the course of the game. Yes, I kept tally on how many PMs I sent kitaman27.

Unfortunately I picked the wrong team to root for in the beginning and as such this game was kinda depressing to read. I also want to apologize for ranting up the Obs QT at some points.

Personally I am not sure if I like m12 games, though. I guess there is a reason why most games are m13 or higher on tl.net.

Part 2: What did make this game so painful?

General activity levels of town. At some parts I had the feeling town just didn't care about this.
While the scum team gained a huge benefit from their coaching, none of the town players were able to do so. This was partly due to Blazinghand not showing up, two of the players replacing out and a third one getting shot N1. I think coaching is amazing and you can learn a ton from interacting with your coach, so this was super sad to me.
The Shining probably not realizing he replaced into a cop that was roleblocked N1, despite receiving a "No Result", because his predecessor did not hand in a check. Also there where two ppl on the scum team that saw The Shining destroy me in my first scum game. The Shining was 100% dead the moment he replaced in.
I could go on... but you people will probably find out the rest by reading the Obs and Scum QTs. I especially recommend reading the Scum QT, even though it is somewhat lengthy.

Part 3: What to take home from this game

Activity does not equal town
Posting Walls does not equal town
Inactive Thread equals scum win
Never ever play in two games at once
I really need to learn how to blue snipe

Part 4: Shout outs

Shapelog
I really hope you get better soon and will be able to join us for future games!

TheCow
I liked your early posts. What the hell happened man?

Irishbound
I promise that not every game is such a landslide victory and hope you will join us for future games as well.

DoYouHas
You are like the ~~dad~~ scum coach I never had. Wish I had access to your teachings before or during my first scum game. I have taken tons of notes from your coaching here and am very positive that they will help me a lot the next time I roll scum. Your help in the Scum QT and in giving extra 1on1 coaching to both Kmatt and MafiaMage shows that you were really dedicated to helping them out. Will nominate for best coach 2016.

Kmatt
Damn solid first game. Keep this stuff up and you may get a best newbie nomination.

MafiaMage
Holy fuckin' hell. Your scum game in NSM 13 was pretty bad. This game you were town jesus AND lead your scum team. I am super amazed about that N1 blue snipe. Like I would have probably agreed that TheCow might be blue, but I would have been super hard to convince to RB him and not the KP target, cause possible Vet. Like I am shocked and amazed at the same time here. How the fuck did you manage to improve this much? Tell me your secrets, pretty please?

Well, as I established DYH did a damn great job coaching you guys, but I think you stepped your game up on your own by miles, too. I loved how you tried to help Fword with his postings and kept him motivated, when he was starting to fall off pretty hard.
There were some things in your play that were off and could have been picked up by the more experienced players, but I am not sure if I was only able to see them cause I knew your alignment. Obs QT was struggling hard to see that stuff.
Might consider a most improved player nomination here.

I will also drop some nice fun facts soon. So stay tuned!

disformation

Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 22:10 GMT

#1259

disformafia's incredible fun facts

disformafia PMs sent to kitaman27 regarding this game: 117
The Scum QT is 41% of the size of the actual game thread excluding the pre game and measured in amount of posts.
Scum was voted for 6 times. 100% of these votes occurred D1.
75% of the posts made at the start of D3 were written by scum.
50% of the posts made during the first 24 hours of D3 were written by scum.
Total amount of posts in the four coaching threads of the town players receiving coaching: 83
Total amount of posts in the two individual coaching threads for scum players receiving coaching: 175
disformafia made a QT to rant in, in order to reduce the amount of rant PMs to kitaman27 and the rant in the Obs QT. This QT contains 87 posts, which would amount in a filter length of over 4 pages in this forum.

disformation

Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 22:17 GMT

#1266

disformafia's ranty rant QT

Disclaimer: I love you all, despite the rant QT suggesting otherwise at some points.
Warning: May contain some mild swear words.

+ Show Spoiler +

Click on own volition.
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/4wtRYhJstBEL

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Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 22:20 GMT

#1271

On January 07 2016 07:18 NocturneMage wrote:
obs qt is hilarious. She is utterly fuming. You have no idea.

Artanis, she was reading the thread, she said I was biased.

Yeah, for nearly the whole time you completely ignored the idea that Kmatt just might be newb scum. You did hard defend him kinda hard D1 from what I can remember and his D1 was pretty meh.

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Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 22:32 GMT

#1279

On January 07 2016 07:31 NocturneMage wrote:

Show nested quote +

Cheers....and right back at you. You created a monster as you said...but now I think I might be just as afraid of you.

I am afraid of both of you.

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Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 23:07 GMT

#1287

On January 07 2016 07:34 NocturneMage wrote:
Reading scumformation's QT....

I don't think he liked me either

(At least not my spam.)

Well, I know that the spam was part of your strategy and the thread was slow as hell most of the time, but in a few places it was too obnoxious. Especially that octo post thing.

Otherwise I greatly enjoyed playing with you in NSM 17. In Dark Tournament I wasn't too happy about you replacing in for obvious reasons, though.

Looking forward to playing with you again, though after this game I kinda hope we end up as the same alignment. xD
Though it would also be interesting to see if I was able to catch a MafiaMage. Or if I could get better a bunch as scum and give you a harder time catching me.

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Germany8352 Posts

January 06 2016 23:33 GMT

#1291

Yeah, bit sad that geript wasn't able to do the whole game. Would have been very interested to see whether/how he would have figured out the reads.

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Germany8352 Posts

January 07 2016 00:28 GMT

#1297

Yeah. I am neither mad nor do I rage and all the voices in my head agree on that.
I am simply invested into these games a lot. Probably a tiny bit too much actually.

But I hope my totally sane ranting was entertaining. <3

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Germany8352 Posts

January 07 2016 00:42 GMT

#1299

On January 07 2016 09:32 Half the Sky wrote:
Only other thing I didn't understand - the thing with town not realising it was mylo or debating GB's ignorance of that.

A bit painful to watch that.

Oh right. Was thinking of throwing this up for the biggest blooper or something. xD

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Germany8352 Posts

January 07 2016 01:01 GMT

#1301

On January 07 2016 09:51 Trfel wrote:
I still say that this is another example of why you can't use stupid meta reads.

NocturneMage played one game as scum and apparently it was really bad. He played his second game as scum and it was at least decent (I didn't read it

). Point made XD

Yeah. I think I might have to join the meta hater club at least when it comes to ppl that don't have much games played.

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Germany8352 Posts

January 07 2016 01:38 GMT

#1303

On January 07 2016 10:34 GlowingBear wrote:

Show nested quote +

I've loved this.

Rant QTs needs to be a thing

Glad I was able to entertain.

I will probably make a QT for myself for all the games I am very invested in, cause I need some place to vent/rant for those and I won't always have a scum or coach QT to do so. Not sure if all of those will be as entertaining as this one though. xD

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Germany8352 Posts

January 07 2016 14:44 GMT

#1316

On January 07 2016 21:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 07 2016 21:28 nooniansoong wrote:

On January 07 2016 14:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would like to know the following though:

scott31337 (6): Irishbound, NocturneMage, mderg, GiygaS, GlowingBear, Fidei86
Fidei86 (3): Onegu, nooniansoong, scott31337
nooniansoong (1): Shapelog
GlowingBear (1): Kmatt

This is the final votecount from D1.
Onegu and kush (mainly, and also the townies on scott), why did you decide that Fidei is not mafia on D2?
There was never any serious push on anyone except for Glowingbear/Onegu on D2, what suddenly changed?
Like you guys had at least a semi-serious counterwagon for the D1 lynch and imo Fidei didn't really do anything particularly townie during the night.

(when someone has 2 scumreads in a game where there is 3 mafia, it is extremely unlike they have, at the same time five null reads -- unless they are scum)

His defense made me realize I didn't have a good case on him. But I did end up scumreading him just because his last case was full of misrepresentation.

Kmart I made a bad assumption that first game player couldn't make that megacase. I guess I wasn't accounting for the coach effect?
Nm yeah.. I stopped looking at his posts critically because of two reasons. I assumed that only town had his type of analytical content. Although now that I think back it was more like high caliber nitpicking. Also his last scumgame sucked and His play this game was an astonomical jump, which made him being scum less likely in my mind.

So town was forced to make bad cases on each other, which made town look more scummy. Gbs reasoning for scumreading Mderg and gigyas was a lack of strong scumreads, but they didn't have scum reads because scum was playing really well.
When a game seems hard like this one did, I think you need to recalibrate and almost reverse what to expect from town and scum. Town will look bad because they can't figure stuff out, and scum will look good because hard games are an indication that scum is playing well.

As for that last part, that's not true. Gb had 2 scum reads. Mderg had 0..

The last part i meant the post Fidei made at the end of D1. There were two things that stood out:
1) He had 2 scumreads + Onegu as policy lynch. In a game where there is 3 mafia, that's it (or the conclusions should likely be that), but instead of making the conclusions he had 5 other players he NULLREAD!!! That should have rang some alarm bells in my opinion.
2) Another thing that stood out was his read on mderg (if i remember correctly). In his post he stated reasons for mderg being town (his scumreading GB and you) -- but the conclusion was "mderg is null because he is only pushing his top 2 scumreads"..... ???? Like, that is something where Fidei in my opinion makes two different conclusions based on same thing (town points for having two scumreads -- scum points for pushing them).
+ Show Spoiler +

Mderg - I like his pressuring on Noon/Kush as well regarding D1. Someone said in the thread earlier that they lynch scum 60% of games D1. I don't think it's that high for me, but mderg is right that a successful d1 lynch for town reaaaaally fucks scum. He has a couple of short posts that give interesting insight (eg #376), but generally he seems pretty focussed on pushing his kush / GB association without looking wider than that.

basically what i am talking about here is this; The green part is a "towntell" -- it's obvious from Fidei's wording. The non-colored part is 100% null, noone can consider that alignment indicative. So it only means Fidei HAS to think the red part is scummy (that cancels the townread he otherwise should have). And it makes no sense given that it is EXACTLY the same thing he gives townpoints to mderg.

I wouldn't fault anyone for not scumreading NM, tbh he looked one of the most townie players in the game, at least for me. Kmatt was like... umm.. i don't remember much he posted, but i think he could have been caught aswell.

I was just wondering why people let go of the scumread on Fidei (namely the people who wanted to lynch him on D1). Hell Onegu's whole filter is yelling "Fidei scumslipped" and while i think it's kind of a ridiculous to assume he in fact did (regardless of it is true or not -- you are never gonna convince anyone with that kinda case), it's even more ridiculous that he completely stopped pushing Fidei after D1 -- i would have probably lynched Onegu myself after that.

Oh, Fidei was the one with 5 null reads at the end of D1? I remembered someone did this, but couldn't remember who. I agree that he should have been pushed/voted incredibly hard for this.

edit:

On January 07 2016 16:52 GiygaS wrote:
Don't worry geript, now you come out of it thinking I'm somewhat decent at this game instead of utter garbage ^.^

@GiygaS:
Don't be too hard on yourself. You had the right ideas in some cases and where like the only one really realizing that there was something really bad going on. But as I said, next game I want to see you having a bit more impact on the game and doing a bit more work, especially when you realize that something is off.

I wish you had tried to use your coaching QT a bit more though, but I can also understand if you where trying to learn the game on your own.

@geript
Yeah, no problem RL happens to the best of us and RL is good at having a bad timing.

disformation

Germany8352 Posts

January 07 2016 21:33 GMT

#1327

On January 08 2016 06:26 GiygaS wrote:

Show nested quote +

Over 3 years now. I've only played a few rl games, going to try and boost my activity next game.

If you are stressed for time, keeping notes can also help. Like note down the 3 first things that come into mind for each player and give them a rating. If you are stuck you can then look at their filters and compare to those notes.
You could also try something similar to what geript did for his day 1 analysis, as in giving + and - points for points and making note of that somewhere.

I will likely try and experiment with such things in my next games, since my current play style forces me to put tons of time into a game, since I have to constantly reread filters and stuff.

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Germany8352 Posts

January 08 2016 14:35 GMT

#1355

On January 08 2016 18:55 Rels wrote:
Well I finished.

fidei was easily catchable but well protected by NM.
kmatt was super good starting D2. But his D1 should have get him lynched at some point (GB's points on him were super damning - especially this one).
NM was sooooo townie, especially late game! He was catchable with association on fidei (fidei keeping NM in his null or scumreads is a big indicator) and on little things, but mostly on POE. I felt GB & mderg were obvious town D1, so with those out of the POE the game would have been different. scott & Onegu were good lynches though, so with no mislynch to afford + cop not checking anyone (and being roleblocked!!!! fucking WP) game was super hard for town.

NM, being almost sure fidei was scum, here is why I scumread you. Gotta find that post in the obs QT.

Show nested quote +

I 100% agree on Fidei and Kmatt.
In my opinion NM did some strange stuff D3 that should have raised some eyebrows. Like scumreading someone because HtS did a similar play as scum ones. What kind of read is that?
The way he defended Kmatt against GB had some strange points, because GB's were pretty good and NM kinda refused to even consider the possibility of Kmatt being a good scum newbie.
He said D1 he "loathes to use meta". D3 he suddenly starts to read filters from old games. He also didn't follow up on a few of those filter read promises.

I am not sure if I only saw this because I had perfect information, but if town had more paranoia and I think in mylo you should have a bit of that, they should have looked at him more closely. I don't think they could have lynched him of that. But there wasn't even the tiniest bit of suspicion.

On January 08 2016 19:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Town was never going to win this game. You guys underestimate the influence of thread presence. Even if some of the townies got correct reads, the mafia just had a lot more presence and that alone can win you games. On top of that, especially NM played really well.

Yeah. Just look at some of the statistics I posted. Especially D3, when a bunch of town where dead, the scum team was in full control of the thread. Activity is important. It just does not mean that the active persons are town per default.

Additionally when I saw the night actions the scum team submitted I was like "okay this is 100% over". Before that I had a bit of hope that they would maybe catch Fidei or Kmatt.

disformation

Germany8352 Posts

January 08 2016 15:18 GMT

#1358

On January 09 2016 00:06 Fidei86 wrote:
I've really enjoyed everyone pointing out how badly I played. It has been an enjoyable process.

Awww. I wub you. <3

Problem is that between MafiaMage's incredible improvement and Kmatt's surprisingly good performance in his first game ever, you stick out a bit. xD

And town didn't even manage to catch you. So there is that.

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