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On December 18 2015 22:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:54 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 18 2015 22:33 Rels wrote:I am actually confirmed town. 1 - I am obvious town to anyone that has played with me as both alignements. But I can fake my town play pretty well so it's normal people doubt. 2 - marv not voting me to survive means we are fucked if we are scum together. If I get lynched D1, marv is super suspicious. Coupled with his difficulty to play scum, there is no way we win. If DP gets lynched D1, marv and I are the obvious team and we have a hard time winning the game. If marv gets lynched D1, I am super suspicious and I have a hard time winning the game. Now: On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote:
Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above). 1) Yes, so am i and so is DP. So hety.. we have a problem here right? 2) Let's say for a second i believe you here. Which brings me back to my question; Why does marv not sheep me into lynching you? Because that would make him not suspicious.... 3) a bit more on this. marv was NOT "almost sure to be the lynch D1" when he started posting because me and DP unvoted him, Greymist later. I don't know what game you are reading if this is your interpretation of the situation. I don't know the #1 about DP. Apparently he's way more aggressive as town though (see arsoul first post .... LOL), but if you don't see a difference, whatever. #2 EXACTLY. If marv was scum with me, he would have sheeped you into me. The way he played, he gave away his partner, and the only way I or he can defend against it afterwards is by playing the WIFOM card. Like I'm doing right now actually. #3 When he started posting, he was the lynch. Then I was. If he succesfully deflected the lynch off me by lynching DP, we look bad. If I am the lynch, he looks bad. So okay;Your narrative is that in this game mafia was so bad that regardless of what they do on D1 they end up almost 100% losing the game unless they bus, despite town being so bad that almost everyone thought you were mafia on D1? Do you seriously believe that is true, because that makes no fucking sense in the first place.
What. I don't understand. See the post I just posted where I cleanly resume my thinking and reply to that one.
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On December 18 2015 22:59 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 18 2015 22:54 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 18 2015 22:33 Rels wrote:I am actually confirmed town. 1 - I am obvious town to anyone that has played with me as both alignements. But I can fake my town play pretty well so it's normal people doubt. 2 - marv not voting me to survive means we are fucked if we are scum together. If I get lynched D1, marv is super suspicious. Coupled with his difficulty to play scum, there is no way we win. If DP gets lynched D1, marv and I are the obvious team and we have a hard time winning the game. If marv gets lynched D1, I am super suspicious and I have a hard time winning the game. Now: On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote:
Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote marv hates giving information when he's playing scum. He's almost sure to be the lynch D1, and virtually garanteed to be lynched D2 if town if lynched D1. So it's impossible marv goes for a play that results of his team being the "obvious" suspects whatever the lynch person is (see above). 1) Yes, so am i and so is DP. So hety.. we have a problem here right? 2) Let's say for a second i believe you here. Which brings me back to my question; Why does marv not sheep me into lynching you? Because that would make him not suspicious.... 3) a bit more on this. marv was NOT "almost sure to be the lynch D1" when he started posting because me and DP unvoted him, Greymist later. I don't know what game you are reading if this is your interpretation of the situation. I don't know the #1 about DP. Apparently he's way more aggressive as town though (see arsoul first post .... LOL), but if you don't see a difference, whatever. #2 EXACTLY. If marv was scum with me, he would have sheeped you into me. The way he played, he gave away his partner, and the only way I or he can defend against it afterwards is by playing the WIFOM card. Like I'm doing right now actually. #3 When he started posting, he was the lynch. Then I was. If he succesfully deflected the lynch off me by lynching DP, we look bad. If I am the lynch, he looks bad. So okay;Your narrative is that in this game mafia was so bad that regardless of what they do on D1 they end up almost 100% losing the game unless they bus, despite town being so bad that almost everyone thought you were mafia on D1? Do you seriously believe that is true, because that makes no fucking sense in the first place. What. I don't understand. See the post I just posted where I cleanly resume my thinking and reply to that one.
This move only makes me confirmed town; everybody else is a potential scum partner. marv could have bused DP like he probably did, or vote arsoul, or GM. But there is no way he doesn't bus me when I am the back up lynch if he's my partner.
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On December 18 2015 23:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:57 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 22:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Rels you are arguing in circles again...
Can you go into N2 end and answer my post on you and DP with the best you can?
This isn't helping rn. If you want. In return, please think about the situation. Yes it's WIFOM; and yes it doens't make sense (especially for "doesn't give info to town" marv) to put the two scums into the "obvious suspects" position. marv is the lynch. He starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects the lynch to DP. I deflect the lynch to arsoul. If DP is lynched => marv and I are the obvious team. If I am lynched => marv looks bad. If marv is lynched => I look bad. This move doesn't have a scum motivation. WIFOM is a tool for scum to escape situations they look scummy when looked in the "obvious" way; but scums wouldn't make themselves look bad just for WIFOM. Fisrt of all you didn't deflect the lynch to anyone. You acted like a headless chicken at the EOD1. Second of all, this: "If I am lynched => marv looks bad." Explain to me why this is the case?
Because he didn't vote me when everybody scumreads me; because he had a super lackluster D1; because he's not a motivated scum player.
If I'm his partner and I get lynched D1 AND marv tried to deflect the lynch, there is no way marv survives two lynches.
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On December 18 2015 23:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:02 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 23:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 18 2015 22:57 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 22:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Rels you are arguing in circles again...
Can you go into N2 end and answer my post on you and DP with the best you can?
This isn't helping rn. If you want. In return, please think about the situation. Yes it's WIFOM; and yes it doens't make sense (especially for "doesn't give info to town" marv) to put the two scums into the "obvious suspects" position. marv is the lynch. He starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects the lynch to DP. I deflect the lynch to arsoul. If DP is lynched => marv and I are the obvious team. If I am lynched => marv looks bad. If marv is lynched => I look bad. This move doesn't have a scum motivation. WIFOM is a tool for scum to escape situations they look scummy when looked in the "obvious" way; but scums wouldn't make themselves look bad just for WIFOM. Fisrt of all you didn't deflect the lynch to anyone. You acted like a headless chicken at the EOD1. Second of all, this: "If I am lynched => marv looks bad." Explain to me why this is the case? Because he didn't vote me when everybody scumreads me; because he had a super lackluster D1; because he's not a motivated scum player. If I'm his partner and I get lynched D1 AND marv tried to deflect the lynch, there is no way marv survives two lynches. Exactly. And if he doesn't vote for you he doesn't survive even one lynch (as you yourself said)... 
Yep. With the way we both played EOD, whatever the lynch is, we both look bad and probably one of us is dead.
I mean, you for example hate busing. But the one game where you ragequit at the end, you felt so fucked that you had no other way than to bus D1.
There is no way marv and I don't bus each other when we are #1 and #2 lynches.
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On December 18 2015 23:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because if you get lynched on D1 and flip town it literally points out towards me being mafia nad rsoul being mafia more than DP being mafia.
You're right. The obvious way to play for marv was to push me. I'm arguing something else; I'm arguing that there is no way we play EOD Like that as partners.
Push your arguments to the end to see if that makes me confirmed scum ?
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marv and DP are scum.
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious.
If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum)
If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK.
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On December 18 2015 23:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:10 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 23:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because if you get lynched on D1 and flip town it literally points out towards me being mafia nad rsoul being mafia more than DP being mafia. You're right. The obvious way to play for marv was to push me. I'm arguing something else; I'm arguing that there is no way we play EOD Like that as partners.Push your arguments to the end to see if that makes me confirmed scum ? See here is my problem. In the underlined part you say what i am presenting is the most likely scenario. But in the bolded part you say there is 0% chance i am right here. So, you can't point out ANY OTHER SCENARIO that makes sense (more than what i presented), hell you even agree with me, but still you just say "this is not what happened".....
Why the fuck are you considering hypothetical scenarios ... I just gave you the six scenarios that are possible given how DP marv and I played EOD1. If you disagree with one scenario say it.
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On December 18 2015 23:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:11 DarthPunk wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 18 2015 22:40 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What? Why is shooting GM the best play for you? Cause he's doc and potentially (even if unlikely) didn't save you or Damdred N1. GM is safe kill. And, again, you would not be voting me if I was scum. Okay thanks, now i need DP's answer on this. DP -- a follow up question to this too; What is the best play for Rels in case he is scum? I think The correct play in a vacuum is to always kill The non CC'd doc. However; I think the best play for Rels was to shoot you. But, again, it's close. Like there are valid arguments for both sides, but you are far less likely to be outargued or swayed in your convictions than GreyMist I think. Actually the best play for both me and Rels in case we are mafia is to no-kill. But Rels or you not realizing this doesn't mean anything about anyone's alignment so we should just drop this discussion.
wtf
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How do you know scum can no-kill ?
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On December 18 2015 23:20 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:15 Rels wrote:
marv and DP are scum.
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious.
If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum)
If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK. Why would we not just both lynch you as scum and go straight to lylo?
I'm not considering the motherfucking hypothetical scenarios. I'm considering what could possibly happen based on the actions of the players, and what outcome it would have.
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On December 18 2015 23:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:15 Rels wrote:
marv and DP are scum.
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious.
If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum)
If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK. Your scenario here hinges around "if DP is lynched for whatever reason" which already assumes that DP was suspicious for people on D1, otherwise you should nowhere assume "if DP is lynched" is even likely. Again we come to this, if you assume "if DP is lynched" is true, you assume DP was at least suspicious for people on D1 ---> in that case, if we mirror this to what I HAVE SAID, it makes sense for marv to NOT bus you, and try to lynch DP, no?
We'll continue that when you will have answered
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On December 18 2015 23:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:15 Rels wrote:
marv and DP are scum.
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me.
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious.
If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum)
If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK.
So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK. Your scenario here hinges around "if DP is lynched for whatever reason" which already assumes that DP was suspicious for people on D1, otherwise you should nowhere assume "if DP is lynched" is even likely. Again we come to this, if you assume "if DP is lynched" is true, you assume DP was at least suspicious for people on D1 ---> in that case, if we mirror this to what I HAVE SAID, it makes sense for marv to NOT bus you, and try to lynch DP, no?
AND YOU ARE SUPER STUPID
"DP LYNCHED" IS THE ONLY SCENARIO THAT IS BAD FOR A MARV + DP TEAM
IF YOU SAY "BUT THE DP IS LYNCHED SCENARIO" IS EXTREMELY UNLIKELY, THEN THE OTHER TWO SCENARIOS ARE BOTH LIKELY, AND THESE TWO SCENARIOS ARE GOOD FOR A MARV + DP TEAM
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OK I will resume one last time because you are all annoying me.
What happened at EOD1
marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects off Rels and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on Rels. Rels deflects off marv and pushes on Arsoul.
Possible lynches: marv, DP, Rels.
1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ?
If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD
If DP is lynched => LYLO; marv and I, who were the two potential lynches, look super bad. A LITTLE BAD and UNLIKELY ANYWAY
If marv is lynched => It looks like both scum didn't want to vote for each other. I look bad. BAD
2: marv + DP is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ?
If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. GOOD
If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum). BAD but UNLIKELY
If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK. SUPER GOOD
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On December 18 2015 23:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:I am not going to answer your dumb shit...
You're lucky I have to assume you're town 'cause I would have tunneled the shit out of you if it was not LYLO.
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Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS.
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On December 18 2015 23:42 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:39 Rels wrote:
Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS. YOU COULD ONLY CHOOSE BAD SCENARIOS BECAUSE YOU HAD COLLECTIVELY PUT YOURSELF INTO A BAD SCENARIO BY PLAYING LIKE SHIT ON DAY ONE.
MY POINT IS SCUMS DO NOT PLAY TO PUT THEMSELVES IN BAD SCENARIOS IN THE FIRST PLACE
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ONE OF YOU DOES NOT BUS THE OTHER IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT EOD
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On December 18 2015 23:45 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:44 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 23:42 DarthPunk wrote:On December 18 2015 23:39 Rels wrote:
Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS. YOU COULD ONLY CHOOSE BAD SCENARIOS BECAUSE YOU HAD COLLECTIVELY PUT YOURSELF INTO A BAD SCENARIO BY PLAYING LIKE SHIT ON DAY ONE. MY POINT IS SCUMS DO NOT PLAY TO PUT THEMSELVES IN BAD SCENARIOS IN THE FIRST PLACE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ONE OF YOU DOES NOT BUS THE OTHER IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT EOD If scum NEVER put themselves into bad scenarios then scum would win all the fucking time.
Yep and we they do, they bus
Case in point: almost every game that was ever played
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On December 18 2015 23:48 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:47 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 23:45 DarthPunk wrote:On December 18 2015 23:44 Rels wrote:On December 18 2015 23:42 DarthPunk wrote:On December 18 2015 23:39 Rels wrote:
Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS. YOU COULD ONLY CHOOSE BAD SCENARIOS BECAUSE YOU HAD COLLECTIVELY PUT YOURSELF INTO A BAD SCENARIO BY PLAYING LIKE SHIT ON DAY ONE. MY POINT IS SCUMS DO NOT PLAY TO PUT THEMSELVES IN BAD SCENARIOS IN THE FIRST PLACE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ONE OF YOU DOES NOT BUS THE OTHER IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT EOD If scum NEVER put themselves into bad scenarios then scum would win all the fucking time. Yep and we they do, they busCase in point: almost every game that was ever played Not true at all.
Yep. It's the natural reaction and I have a lot of examples coming to mind rightnow
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On December 18 2015 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +
Eh that's true. But you have done that in every game we've been in - gone at it with Rayn I mean. Even SOTW, where he ended up trusting you with the game. Rayn is easy to manipulate and you figured him out (hell, we laughed about it at length in the Mafia QT).
you can call this idiot after the game.
Dark Tournament: HTS is getting destroyed by NM => FF buses. FF is suprisingly getting lynched => disfo bus
Haunted Mansion: FF and scott are getting lynched => Chrom buses.
Mini Mafia: Hopeless and Onegu => BH buses.
Drams: Shining => Rels and SL bus
Generic Mini Mafia: marv => bus
SOTW: Damdred AFK => bus
Personality: rayn got caught => bus
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EPT
