On November 16 2015 01:02 Vivax wrote: Challenge of the day: HTS vs Rels.
I think early game holds answers to this quest.
Like I said before, disassociation. If you don't believe Artanis' explanation or my reasoning for voting the team in, you'll see endgame he and Kita made quite the play, all they needed was one person up there, and IIRC both rayn (in your world) and Xata had voted themselves in.
The way you are not re evaluating since mission 2 is revelative.
On November 16 2015 01:19 Half the Sky wrote: I very well probably could get in trouble for what I just said in 3117, but eh, at this point I'll just deal with it post-game.
Anyways Rels, please, it's a damn summary, not "vague" (3115), you continue to frame that to your liking.
I'm saying like it seems to me. Arta is reacting to stuff, he has a very thread acceptable opinion on anyone, even showing some suspicions on rayn when Vivax starts to throw some. Coag has not posted anything useful since replacing in. You tried to push your team with either Arta in it if people wouldn't accept you or Coag. You were even OK voting YES, before SL comes and say stuff, and you're like "Oh no worries I'll do what you want plzplzplz trust me".
On November 16 2015 01:26 Half the Sky wrote: I was okay voting yes because of reads on the people you nominated INDEPENDENT of who nominated them.
What I found hilarious is that AS YOU NOMINATED YOUR TEAM you quoted a team that I had previously selected (team of 4 and team of 5) and then you swapped my name in for sicklucker (for whatever reason) and now you are turning that argument around and trying to say I'm mafia for it. How do you say I'm being unreasonable saying I would upvote a team with 3 people I would create the team from PLUS MYSELF?!??!?!? (3051)
I separated that from your probable intention with your nomination. And that's why I made the comment I did.
It is unreasonnable 'cause you should have been "wait Rels is 100% scum, maybe he's pushing for victory" which is what SL did. But you're right, it was targeted specifically at you, 'cause the kita's post saying "now whatever I say doesn't matter since I'm scum" stuck in my head. You're playing a game of absolutes, which is something mafia does when chosing their fake reads.
BTW I'm pretty sure you said you would do an comparaison between Kita's play this game and in Personality. Did you do it before deciding he was scum ? If not can you do it ? If yes, link please.
On November 16 2015 01:39 Half the Sky wrote: I drew a starting point for that meta comparison, but I never did finish it. There were a few points that made me wary as I started reading Personality that I am pretty sure I put into that post.
I have to afk now anyhow but that is something I can continue if it clarifies things for people.
I would love you to finish that comparaison post then. Cause I have the inverse sentiment.
On November 15 2015 22:15 Vivax wrote: I need to correct one part of the argument: Rayn posted the thing about him not pushing SL after the mission failed, not after it was passed. I misread the time there.
On November 08 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos who do you actually think is most likely to be scum rn? I don't like the "this guy is scum and then two of these five other people".
Three people, most likely to be mafia, ok?
On November 08 2015 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are going to put both Rels & Shockeyy there you have to explain why my analysis on them does not make sense.
This might be semantics/a mistake but asking Xata to explain why he would scumread Shockey shouldn't make sense from rayn's perspective, he should be glad of Xata accepting Shockey being scum.
Then we proceed to this:
On November 09 2015 23:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Nominate: raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Superbia
On November 10 2015 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably not since all of sl/shockeyy/hts/artanis are gonna vote no, i assume you are gonna vote no too.
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - YES sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - YES Vivax - YES
So the mission fails. Only SL and Artanis vote no as predicted. HTS and shockey vote yes.
What happens afterwards is that rayn commits suicide by host for some reason. But that at a time where he could have done this:
Go wtf on the 2 yes votes and immediately start looking for the mafia on that wagon.
Given what he said about those voting no, rayn here would have immediately gone for a team of HTS/Shockey/??? Xatalos!
Cause SL voting no here and Xata voting yes should have immediately put Xata into the scummy corner for him.
But that wasn't possible cause then the mission wouldn't have failed.
So the only conclusion to be gained from this mission is that either rayn, Xata or kita were mafia, which would have made it impossible for HTS and shockey to be mafia too.
Instead of thinking logically here, rayn decided to throw a tantrum of rage on purpose, cause the only logical conclusion to be had was that he was dead wrong and that he would look much worse.
This is good. For HTS / Arta to make sense, rayn have to be scum, but I couldn't see why a mafia would get modkilled. This could be why.
Ehh as much as I'd like this to be true, I'm still not convinced that rayn + HTS makes sense. Like he attacks her and other people up to the point where she feels like she has to make a post-game post about how toixc he is, only for them to show up at endgame and be like "lol jk we're best buds!".
I'll re-read everything to see if it could make sense if one of them were mafia individually.
I agree. But it just makes sense given the votes and team results. If HTS is not scum then what ? rayn / Arta / SL ? rayn / Arta / Xata ? Cause Vivax has to be town here. So each time, two scums in the first team. That makes much less sense than rayn / HTS faking being angry at each other + rayn being angry 'cause his fake reads were proven false.
On November 15 2015 22:15 Vivax wrote: I need to correct one part of the argument: Rayn posted the thing about him not pushing SL after the mission failed, not after it was passed. I misread the time there.
On November 08 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos who do you actually think is most likely to be scum rn? I don't like the "this guy is scum and then two of these five other people".
Three people, most likely to be mafia, ok?
On November 08 2015 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are going to put both Rels & Shockeyy there you have to explain why my analysis on them does not make sense.
This might be semantics/a mistake but asking Xata to explain why he would scumread Shockey shouldn't make sense from rayn's perspective, he should be glad of Xata accepting Shockey being scum.
Then we proceed to this:
On November 09 2015 23:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Nominate: raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Superbia
On November 10 2015 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably not since all of sl/shockeyy/hts/artanis are gonna vote no, i assume you are gonna vote no too.
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - YES sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - YES Vivax - YES
So the mission fails. Only SL and Artanis vote no as predicted. HTS and shockey vote yes.
What happens afterwards is that rayn commits suicide by host for some reason. But that at a time where he could have done this:
Go wtf on the 2 yes votes and immediately start looking for the mafia on that wagon.
Given what he said about those voting no, rayn here would have immediately gone for a team of HTS/Shockey/??? Xatalos!
Cause SL voting no here and Xata voting yes should have immediately put Xata into the scummy corner for him.
But that wasn't possible cause then the mission wouldn't have failed.
So the only conclusion to be gained from this mission is that either rayn, Xata or kita were mafia, which would have made it impossible for HTS and shockey to be mafia too.
Instead of thinking logically here, rayn decided to throw a tantrum of rage on purpose, cause the only logical conclusion to be had was that he was dead wrong and that he would look much worse.
This is good. For HTS / Arta to make sense, rayn have to be scum, but I couldn't see why a mafia would get modkilled. This could be why.
Ehh as much as I'd like this to be true, I'm still not convinced that rayn + HTS makes sense. Like he attacks her and other people up to the point where she feels like she has to make a post-game post about how toixc he is, only for them to show up at endgame and be like "lol jk we're best buds!".
I'll re-read everything to see if it could make sense if one of them were mafia individually.
I agree. But it just makes sense given the votes and team results. If HTS is not scum then what ? rayn / Arta / SL ? rayn / Arta / Xata ? Cause Vivax has to be town here. So each time, two scums in the first team. That makes much less sense than rayn / HTS faking being angry at each other + rayn being angry 'cause his fake reads were proven false.
Well at least with rayn/Arta/Xata you have the weird
Xata: Hey it's my time to nominate. You wanna be on the team Arta? Arta: Naw it's all good bro.
and
Arta: I'm up and you're my strongest town read rayn. Mission time? rayn: lulz lets nominate Rels instead for "information" Arta: Sure thing!
and
rayn: My turn! So now I can bring Arta along for realz. rayn: Actually, I'll just nominate whoever kita says instead
True. But what do you think of these ?
On November 16 2015 00:50 Rels wrote: K HTS just slipped right there. I purposefully did the same thing Arta did when he picked rayn's team to gather reactions. The normal reaction of someone scumreading me should be: I'm scum because the team goes against my reads and I dedouaned myself from nominating a team. People thinking that should be thinking Arta is scum, or at least suspicious 'cause (1) he did the exact same thing and (2) I'm putting him in my team. Here is what HTS did:
On November 15 2015 06:50 Half the Sky wrote: On mobile, bear with me please.
On November 15 2015 05:36 sicklucker wrote:
On November 15 2015 04:08 Rels wrote:
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
im pretty sure im vivax's strongest townread now and its very logical. Do you live in paris?
The answer to that question is yes, we've chatted out of game
Aside, overall I feel this is a WIFOM attempt to (perhaps?) eventually get on someone's team and eventually fail a mission.
I will explain why in his world, this proposal does not make sense from town side. (All references at bottom of post so you can see context and judge for yourselves.)
From town side.
Rels was hard scumreading Artanis and in his world one of Artanis or myself has to be mafia. He is proposing a team with both of us on it.
He was asking me multiple times (well at least once I know I recall) why I was townreading Artanis. He concluded that one of us has to be scum. Now? He places both of us on the team.
Second he hard townreads rayn. Now? He leaves him off. Not as sharp as the first point, but quite curious given prior reads.
Furthermore he pushes the line that it's not possible that two scums voted no, and then Artanis and I having both voted yes, he puts us both up. (I don't believe I misunderstood this.)
What changed? (of course, when you can answer, I understand obv not right away)
Overall, ironically the team he's put up is a clean team, but seeing as town have to get three missions passed to win and scum only need to fail one more, I have a strong sense of WIFOM/disassociation/tinfoil/whatever you want to call it about so another scummer (or him?) can slip through on a later mission (Kita's or someone else slipping up).
Follow the read progression folks.
References: 1 Scumreading Artanis v myself Rels' filter page 20/thread page 127-128 (posts 2540/2552) Rels' filter page 21/thread pages 129 on and off through 138 (posts 2572, 2638, 2639, 2640, 2654, 2667, 2758) Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139 (posts 2766) - trying to convince Artanis he's scum)
2 Townread of rayn Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139-140 (post 2769/2773/2775/2777/2779/2782/2783) - Artanis' post on familiarity is valid as Rels has played 3 games with rayn (SOTW, Newbie 13, Drams) at least 2 he was abrasive, warned in Drams (which rayn admitted to).
3 Rels pushing the two scums voting no line Rels' filter page 23/thread page 143 (post 2844) - he was pushing that well before that page before but that was the latest he was pushing that idea
Rels is scum 'cause he nominated a WIFOM team that was against his read. But the team is clean, so Arta, who did the same thing, is town.
Second thing, kita has tried to get HTS talking about things about Arta and I. HTS didn't answer in details to these unless I missed it. But now that she sees the opportunity to both: - explain how I am even scummier than before - push people to vote YES she's putting the effort to do it.
Third thing, town is one failure away from losing, and she's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
TLDR 1. Arta does something, he's town; Rels does the same thing, Rels is scum and Arta is still town 2. She's putting the effort to convince even more people I'm scum. 3. She's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
Now this doesn't mean Arta is scum by itself; but since HTS is OK putting herself out of teams only if Arta is instead, there is a relationship. As to why Arta is scum, see kita's big post about him.
On November 15 2015 07:26 sicklucker wrote: we should all vote no to this and see who votes yes. ill put up pretty much the same team next anyway. more info the better and artanis can still be scum. Dont say you agree if you agree ill vote no
I will be very honest, I really feel this team is clean.
But if you want me to downvote this team, I can. I definitely trust you and Vivax and that will put the 5th mission in my hands (assuming we all downvote whatever Kita puts up) so I can go either way on this.
I can also do one final check on Artanis as well prior to upvoting.
On November 15 2015 07:31 Half the Sky wrote: I don't know what you mean by "don't say you'll agree/if you agree"
But if it is trust you need me to resolve and you're tinfoiling me, then I'll downvote it for you. I think that might be the issue here.
I feel HTS is like: "SL I know I slipped by trying to get this team passed please still be my friend." Not a ounce of tinfoil in her mind that just maybe SL is scum. She has decided what the team was and she s sticking to it.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Oh yeah. Yes, Vivax is 99% confirmed town when you're not by that NO vote, since he was on the team and you were not. If Vivax is scum, there is a confirmed mafia a the team; if you're scum, there isn't a confirmed mafia in the team.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
"So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. "
Since you say vivax is confirmed town, why couldn't he be a mafia player who was unsure whether the votes would pass and wanted to play it safe?
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Reading EOD it seemed that the team was going to be accepted. Do you disagree ?
If you think Vivax might be scum after this, you also think the team had a chance to not be accepted without Vivax' vote right ? And you also think his teammates probably voted YES ?
On November 15 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote: [quote]
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
"So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. "
Since you say vivax is confirmed town, why couldn't he be a mafia player who was unsure whether the votes would pass and wanted to play it safe?
Cause of this:
On November 16 2015 00:35 Rels wrote:
On November 15 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 15 2015 04:08 Rels wrote:
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Reading EOD it seemed that the team was going to be accepted. Do you disagree ?
Well the real reason I'm asking is because Xata voted no, but you don't apply that reasoning to him, but I guess #3143 makes sense now that you explained it.
On November 17 2015 08:00 sicklucker wrote: I decided to go for the win here because of two factor. I didnt have your garanteed vote and shockey wont be able to play after today. i think I have to end it here to have the best chance for town to win
That's bullshit. From your POV, there is only advantages waiting a few more days to decide who would be the fifth man. I literally cannot see why you are doing that - as either alignement, since you're more townread than Arta in the case you're both scum.
EPT
