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On November 18 2015 08:20 Rels wrote:
OK I really don't want to brag or anything, this is my feeling.
I felt like this game was town favored. Even if the scums wins the first 2 missions, they can lose extremely easily with all the information available to town. And if any of the first 2 missions passes, townies becomes confirmed and the game is almost over for scums. Is it balanced IRL ? If it's the case, I feel like having a lot of time analyzing votes and team submissions and reads is a big disavantadge for scums.
Yeah I really think it's a bit town favored. It requires good scum play and active splitting of the town into camps to control the missions, I guess. Got a bit lucky at the end with the fast/easy 3rd sabotage, but overall I think we did well with the first and second sabotages.
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Also props to Artanis for managing to stay afloat to the end  If you messed up at the end, we'd have been done for hahaha
I really don't think scum can win this if there's a poor scum player included....
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kita town mvp by voting. i hoped more ppl would have only pretended to vote yes, it would have outed artanis. when sl said his nom could be a trap i already tried to help set it up.
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As for the MVP thing, sentiment appreciated Rels, but I've always been of the mentality these games are team games regardless of alignment. If I really had to appoint an MVP it'd be that bloody protoss Artanis, but for town sicklucker did really well. Both of us I think did alright getting 2+/3 but especially in his case (and I tried to make a point about the language issue) and in mine (largely because of lack of time) we had major communication problems - town did as a whole - and quite frankly it wasn't until the modkill that town actually coalesced a bit more.
Normally I construct cases, but that becomes impossible when you are working 12-15 hours a day (which honestly, I know I have other issues outside this game which a few of you are already aware of), and so now I really feel bad I couldn't get things down in one post that I would have otherwise done for Kita. There were some posts that I got an extremely dry tone from him (which I never experience from Kita in any of his town games) so I couldn't tell if it was him being mafia or just his frustration at the state of the game. That said, I think I know where I made mistakes and what I need to do next time I am very pressed for time (before the game started going on autopilot, once it started grinding out at the end, it was like meh).
I think had I been able to communicate a little more effectively with Kita and Vivax it might have turned out a little better, IDK.
As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK.
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On November 18 2015 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
fucking never.
someone who doesn't read games is not MVP. Ever.
Reaching differn't conclusions, or missing/forgetting one little point =/= not reading the game
It was super clear all game that HtS was giving this game her best. I think she and SL were the towniest towns that towned this game. Easily the town heroes of the game.
I give Super some credit too, his game started off strong, butslacked off har when he wasn't able to put time into it.
Rayn, i feel like you deserve an honorary spy title this game. You were on Rels early on and were looking good, but you decided your personal goal of berating people for stupid shit was more important than looking for scum.
Oh also, I'll find it later, but Rels totally outed his team on D1, not super obviusly but it happened. Still GJ for staying active and plugging along even after most of the game scum read you.
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On November 18 2015 08:25 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 08:20 Rels wrote:
OK I really don't want to brag or anything, this is my feeling.
I felt like this game was town favored. Even if the scums wins the first 2 missions, they can lose extremely easily with all the information available to town. And if any of the first 2 missions passes, townies becomes confirmed and the game is almost over for scums. Is it balanced IRL ? If it's the case, I feel like having a lot of time analyzing votes and team submissions and reads is a big disavantadge for scums. I think both the balance and the player experience would be improved by cutting the length of the game by a third. I'm not really sure the best way to do so, but the mafia team doesn't need to keep up the act for as long and we don't have to put up with so many dead cycles towards the end of the game. Ideally, town should probably fail the first 3-4 nominations each cycle for info, but when that adds an extra 48 hours each time it really becomes a drag.
This so much. It's hard to say for the moderators though.
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fuck some pudge hooked my rampage away
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On November 18 2015 10:22 Vivax wrote:
kita town mvp by voting. i hoped more ppl would have only pretended to vote yes, it would have outed artanis. when sl said his nom could be a trap i already tried to help set it up.
i hadnt decided but there was like on talk in thread so w/e wanted to end it
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On November 18 2015 10:29 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
fucking never.
someone who doesn't read games is not MVP. Ever. Reaching differn't conclusions, or missing/forgetting one little point =/= not reading the game It was super clear all game that HtS was giving this game her best. I think she and SL were the towniest towns that towned this game. Easily the town heroes of the game. I give Super some credit too, his game started off strong, butslacked off har when he wasn't able to put time into it. Rayn, i feel like you deserve an honorary spy title this game. You were on Rels early on and were looking good, but you decided your personal goal of berating people for stupid shit was more important than looking for scum. Oh also, I'll find it later, but Rels totally outed his team on D1, not super obviusly but it happened. Still GJ for staying active and plugging along even after most of the game scum read you.
I guess the ppl who were scumread by almost everyone were the towniest.
Ok, won't argue with you.
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oh and don't ever try to give advice to me Tictock. plz.
Friendly advice.
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On November 18 2015 08:09 Half the Sky wrote:Well Artanis was nominated for mafia player of the year from Imperial and there's a reason for that. Friggin' protoss.... Wait, what the heck does that have to do with anything?
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On November 18 2015 11:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
oh and don't ever try to give advice to me Tictock. plz.
Friendly advice.
I wasn't and I wont.
I know it would be a waste of time.
I do have some serious issues with this post though, and what it seems to tell me about you.
On November 08 2015 18:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But yeah. You are right. I want to remove stupid. When there is bo stupid i will win.
So stop being stupid.
From my (fairly limited) experience with you, this seems to sum up where your head is at about 90% of the time.
The problem is you decide that somebody having a different opinion than you = being stupid, and that you prefer to attack and call people names than have constructive discussion. This game especially shows that, since you got super defensive and decided to be modkilled over someone questioning your play in another game.
I've never seen you offer advice for how people could improve, but I constantly see you telling people why they are bad. (I hope there is ample evidence to the contrary here, but if I've seen it I don't recall it at all)
You rarely attempt to view things from alternate perspectives, which means when dealing with you it's "Your way or the highway."
All this leads me to think that you use this anti-stupid mindset/cause as an excuse to attack and belittle others, while maintaining the "holier than though" attitude that I always see you with.
Basically, this makes you a bully in my mind. If you truly wanted to "remove stupid" you'd be encouraging thought and understanding, not attacking people you disagree with.
And no, this isn't advice. It's just my opinion.
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Couple of things that stood out to me like a sore thumb from the scum team this game (obviously my perception being affected with perfect info)
This post real early from Rels, felt like he was practically outing his team.
On November 02 2015 18:19 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 18:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels? No. That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them. So what, do you think we are all scum or what? No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that. What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town). If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further. OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
Made me laugh when I read it, because after quite an exchange with rayn and after saying a couple of times that he didn't have real reads yet Rels basically goes and says everyone who has posted up to that point but his teammates are suspicious.
I was real surprised that nobody questioned why he wasn't suspicious of Xata or Art (also SL I think had posted a couple of one liners by that point) yet wasn't townreading them either.
I also really laughed at Art's post here,
On November 17 2015 17:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Team is clearly clean. There's a reason the last time it got submitted it only got 3 votes. Vivax is clean for obv reasons. Shockeyy is clean due to nothing even remotely resembling a mafia agenda. HtS is clean because she's basically been mirroring my thought process too many times, and the way she kept going when everyone scumread her. Any combination with me in it doesn't make sense. Can't be Vivax, can't be Shockeyy unless it's with Rayn in which case those two have hard bussed each other from the start which really makes no sense. Can't be HtS because there's no way our interactions make any sense as scum-scum. Can't be anyone off the mission either as it was obvious HtS and Shockeyy were going to vote yes and I had also said I'd vote yes on the mission I was on so scum could easily just vote yes for the win. The team is clean. Pass it. Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 07:14 Vivax wrote:
Oh and one more thing:
It isn't explicitly stated in the rules that two sabotages from spies show up when they both choose to fail the mission, when it's required on mission 4.
But when it isn't required and 2 spies on a wagon pick FAIL, then do we also see 2 sabotages outside of mission 4?
I'll assume yes for now.
And that means that any combination with 2 spies on a mission is impossible in this game. It's possible, but as Rayn mentioned at the start of the game the optimal strategy for spies is to have the person at the top of the leader list vote fail if there's more than one spy on the mission. Also, I still have to look into Rayn again. Vivax might be right in that he's scum instead of Xata. Not sure, but since neither of them is on the mission it isn't a concern until later which is good as I won't have time until late tonight.
Which to me boils down to him saying "These people are all town for these clear reasons. I'm clearly not scum with any of them, thus the team is clean! Pass it."
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Couple other things I feel like commenting on.
First the change in attitude after Mission 1 failed.
Some people were worse than others, but the moral of the game dropped quite dramatically after that. It was after this that the game started to get more toxic and town started to shut each other out (well some of that had started beforehand).
It was really interesting because there were lots of people posting "Easy Game!" "Easy Town Win!" and such D1, which is probably not a good sign imo. One fail and suddenly town were almost ready to throw in the towel.
I also have no idea how everyone concluded that Shokey being that only Yes vote for HtS's submission proved he was scum. To me a mission getting so unanimously and instantly downvoted (right after the team was submitted it was clear thread sentiment was to No vote) makes it super likely to be a pure team, but the one person voting against the grain there is almost never a spy.
Overall this seems like a rough setup. The game has a huge potential to drag on and on, and with everyone staying alive it seems like burnout and in-fighting are very real threats to both alignments. Sorta glad I dropped my spot.
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On November 18 2015 09:10 Fidei86 wrote:
In my view, sicklucker played out of his mind towards the end. He was the ONLY person on Artanis, when the latter was being universally townread. I think he deserved the MVP. If more townies had listened to him, I think town wins.
True SL was the lategame powerhouse (= but he was soooo lazy early game
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On November 18 2015 10:25 Half the Sky wrote:
As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK.
Isn't Merlin a town role, making the town even more powerful ?
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On November 18 2015 15:30 Tictock wrote:Couple of things that stood out to me like a sore thumb from the scum team this game (obviously my perception being affected with perfect info) This post real early from Rels, felt like he was practically outing his team. Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 18:19 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 18:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels? No. That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them. So what, do you think we are all scum or what? No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that. What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town). If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further. OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you. Made me laugh when I read it, because after quite an exchange with rayn and after saying a couple of times that he didn't have real reads yet Rels basically goes and says everyone who has posted up to that point but his teammates are suspicious. I was real surprised that nobody questioned why he wasn't suspicious of Xata or Art (also SL I think had posted a couple of one liners by that point) yet wasn't townreading them either.
I don't think this really outs us though. Most times when scum make lists, they add both scum and town on them to link them together. It's also not really a memorable post imo especially in a game that drags out.
I also really laughed at Art's post here, Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 17:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Team is clearly clean. There's a reason the last time it got submitted it only got 3 votes. Vivax is clean for obv reasons. Shockeyy is clean due to nothing even remotely resembling a mafia agenda. HtS is clean because she's basically been mirroring my thought process too many times, and the way she kept going when everyone scumread her. Any combination with me in it doesn't make sense. Can't be Vivax, can't be Shockeyy unless it's with Rayn in which case those two have hard bussed each other from the start which really makes no sense. Can't be HtS because there's no way our interactions make any sense as scum-scum. Can't be anyone off the mission either as it was obvious HtS and Shockeyy were going to vote yes and I had also said I'd vote yes on the mission I was on so scum could easily just vote yes for the win. The team is clean. Pass it. On November 17 2015 07:14 Vivax wrote:
Oh and one more thing:
It isn't explicitly stated in the rules that two sabotages from spies show up when they both choose to fail the mission, when it's required on mission 4.
But when it isn't required and 2 spies on a wagon pick FAIL, then do we also see 2 sabotages outside of mission 4?
I'll assume yes for now.
And that means that any combination with 2 spies on a mission is impossible in this game. It's possible, but as Rayn mentioned at the start of the game the optimal strategy for spies is to have the person at the top of the leader list vote fail if there's more than one spy on the mission. Also, I still have to look into Rayn again. Vivax might be right in that he's scum instead of Xata. Not sure, but since neither of them is on the mission it isn't a concern until later which is good as I won't have time until late tonight. Which to me boils down to him saying "These people are all town for these clear reasons. I'm clearly not scum with any of them, thus the team is clean! Pass it."
Well, the main argument was that scum would've known I was on the mission and should've known HtS and Shockeyy were 100% going to vote yes, so if I was scum they should all pass it. The obvious flaw in my argument is of course that there's no communication between scum so they couldn't be sure the other person would do it . My post was mostly an attempt to communicate to Rels and Xata to vote yes without setting off any alarms.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 18 2015 17:27 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 10:25 Half the Sky wrote:
As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK. Isn't Merlin a town role, making the town even more powerful ?
mafia get to guess at the merlin role for a free win at the end of the game if they lose the regular missions
and when you're merlin and the rest of town have 0 correct reads between them and you can't change their mind (and if i can't...), then... well. yes. so dull.
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On November 18 2015 19:47 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 17:27 Rels wrote:On November 18 2015 10:25 Half the Sky wrote:
As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK. Isn't Merlin a town role, making the town even more powerful ? mafia get to guess at the merlin role for a free win at the end of the game if they lose the regular missions and when you're merlin and the rest of town have 0 correct reads between them and you can't change their mind (and if i can't...), then... well. yes. so dull.
So scums can get wrecked and potentially win the game by randoming a name ? I don't like that at all. Maybe that's more fair IRL when a game lasts one hour (I assume ?), but I would be sooooo mad to lose a won game that lasted weeks because of random.org.
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On November 18 2015 20:44 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 19:47 marvellosity wrote:On November 18 2015 17:27 Rels wrote:On November 18 2015 10:25 Half the Sky wrote:
As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK. Isn't Merlin a town role, making the town even more powerful ? mafia get to guess at the merlin role for a free win at the end of the game if they lose the regular missions and when you're merlin and the rest of town have 0 correct reads between them and you can't change their mind (and if i can't...), then... well. yes. so dull. So scums can get wrecked and potentially win the game by randoming a name ? I don't like that at all. Maybe that's more fair IRL when a game lasts one hour (I assume ?), but I would be sooooo mad to lose a won game that lasted weeks because of random.org.
They could but I guess generally you will have a pretty good idea who merlin is by the end of a game this long. Unless merlin is playing really well and why would he since his role is so fucking boring.
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EPT
