• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:43
CEST 13:43
KST 20:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy5uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event14Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple5SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments5[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Lambo Talks: The Future of SC2 and more... uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) ByuN vs TaeJa Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Global Tourney for College Students in September
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking! New season has just come in ladder BW General Discussion BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September
Tourneys
KCM 2025 Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Bitcoin discussion thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gaming After Dark: Poor Slee…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 556 users

[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 22 2015 21:04 GMT
#608
Ritoky, what's your read on gumshoe now?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 22 2015 21:17 GMT
#616
On October 23 2015 06:12 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 22 2015 07:26 Blazinghand wrote:
"would you have done this if you were mafia?" --> the answer to this question is always "yes". I'm willing to lie, cheat, steal, doctor photographs, put items in boxes, fake plane tickets, pretend to have depression, a death in the family, etc, whatever it takes to win regardless of alignment. I'm one of the few players that does not pull punches as mafia. So yes, as mafia, I'd be fully willing to RNG if I percieved it to be a good idea (which it isn't; I've outlined why RNG is pro-town this game)

Here is what bothers me Xatalos. You continue to townread Blazinghand fro his rng after he says this.


So? He didn't even seem to realize that RNG-stuff was a "towntell" for him until after we started discussing the topic. What's more, even if he did, it wouldn't be so easy to fake the whole push and argue about it with that kind of conviction if he thought it was counter-productive for his faction (as scum). And well, he has just generally been active and producing posts I like. I don't really feel there's any reason to think he's null, let alone scum.

He's definitely null off of the RNG. Thats the entire point. BH has literally said that you have to look at what he does with it, not the fact that he did it. Once done, he's committed to it, even if (and rayn?) are scum he's trapped. All of his followup with respect to how true and great and protown it is have no bearing on his alignment.

His concern with ritoky pulling up games to draw a conclusion make them both townyish to me, but thats not really much considering the subject matter. BH is firmly null atm.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 22 2015 21:40 GMT
#634
ritoky, where do you stand on gumshoe?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 22 2015 22:27 GMT
#694
On October 23 2015 07:19 Vivax wrote:
Everyone shut up I'm hardclaiming cop

hahaha too gud
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 22 2015 22:27 GMT
#697
the salt feels real from ritoky, no?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 22 2015 22:31 GMT
#703
On October 23 2015 06:38 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 06:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 23 2015 06:27 ritoky wrote:
On October 23 2015 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have a question. Xatalos do you seriously think Blazinghand - as town - believes that lynching by RNG on D1 has the best chances of hitting mafia? Like do you SERIOUSLY believe that?


depending on the setup of the game and the structure of PRs, yes.

really?
when he himself just argued it's less likely to hit mafia then not rng lycnhing?


it's actually equally as likely, so i disagree with your premise entirely.

it's actually really simple. i mean i guess it's pretty simple for me cuz i read like 10 of BH's games in the recent past so i could accurately impersonate him. here's your guide to reading BH:

Did he RNG immediately @ the start of the game: if yes -> 80% chance to be town; if no -> 80% chance to be mafia

Did he push the RNG target or just leave it there like a dead fish: if push -> 95% chance to be town; if dead fish - 50% chance to be mafia

Did he gather reads from people arguing with him about why they are better than RNG: yes - DING DING DING town; i don't know he hasn't given reads - 75% town; no - 50% town

rayn, was this your turning point on ritoky? They're right when saying that ritoky posted nothing between "(rayn thinks) ritoky is town" and "POE lynch list include ritoky".
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 15:50 GMT
#968
On October 24 2015 00:36 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:32 Xatalos wrote:
GB, if you're town, seriously don't just commit suicide here. Looks like it's heading towards you vs rayn and it'd be sad if you caused your own death there, like a certain player in my newbie game....


I'm not commiting suicide, I'm getting angry that such shitty scum read on me based on a read that I find very reasonable and I'm having a hard time believing good players can't possibly see I'm town.

On October 24 2015 00:30 Rels wrote:

Xatalos (1): Chromatically




Tell me more about the "shitty scum" reading you. You obviously have more people in mind, who are your detractors?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 15:51 GMT
#972
On October 24 2015 00:51 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:30 Rels wrote:
GlowingBear (3): marvellosity, yamato77, Vivax, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity


aww i confused the shit out of myself. However, I think all three of those are town so...

goddamn wrong thread
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 15:57 GMT
#980
On October 24 2015 00:52 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:50 Hopeless1der wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:36 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:32 Xatalos wrote:
GB, if you're town, seriously don't just commit suicide here. Looks like it's heading towards you vs rayn and it'd be sad if you caused your own death there, like a certain player in my newbie game....


I'm not commiting suicide, I'm getting angry that such shitty scum read on me based on a read that I find very reasonable and I'm having a hard time believing good players can't possibly see I'm town.

On October 24 2015 00:30 Rels wrote:

Xatalos (1): Chromatically




Tell me more about the "shitty scum" reading you. You obviously have more people in mind, who are your detractors?


I meant "shitty scumreads", not shitty scum reading me.

I think I buy this. Am I crazy?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 15:59 GMT
#984
I'm gonna sheep marv/rayn. Hoping yamato/onegu show up because they said they would eventually.

##vote: Alakaslam
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 15:59 GMT
#987
On October 24 2015 00:58 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:52 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:50 Hopeless1der wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:36 GlowingBear wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:32 Xatalos wrote:
GB, if you're town, seriously don't just commit suicide here. Looks like it's heading towards you vs rayn and it'd be sad if you caused your own death there, like a certain player in my newbie game....


I'm not commiting suicide, I'm getting angry that such shitty scum read on me based on a read that I find very reasonable and I'm having a hard time believing good players can't possibly see I'm town.

On October 24 2015 00:30 Rels wrote:

Xatalos (1): Chromatically




Tell me more about the "shitty scum" reading you. You obviously have more people in mind, who are your detractors?


I meant "shitty scumreads", not shitty scum reading me.

I think I buy this. Am I crazy?


No you display basic human intelligence.

yay I did it!
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 16:04 GMT
#995
Surefire ways to get lynched:

1) Tell marv he cant do it.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 16:06 GMT
#999
Slam, your filter is really focused on rayn. What else you got cooking?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 16:17 GMT
#1013
On October 24 2015 01:10 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 01:04 Hopeless1der wrote:
Surefire ways to get lynched:

1) Tell marv he cant do it.

Sure fire way to disappointment: try to lynch an enigma on day 1.

With regard to your other question, there is irony; Marv missed the fact that I don't much like your posting this game either.

In fact, read my pages. Answer my question so that I can answer yours more fully? Would be interesting



So I assume this is the issue
On October 23 2015 16:08 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 06:40 Hopeless1der wrote:
ritoky, where do you stand on gumshoe?

More of this hopeless?

How is this helping your reads?


ritoky had an early "textbook" mafia read of gumshoe (as per chromatically), gumshoe posted more, I wanted to know where ritoky's read ended up because he hadnt updated it and needed to be prompted a couple times. In general, my reads for those three are gumshoe>chromatically>ritoky (in order of townyness)

Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 23 2015 16:28 GMT
#1026
On October 24 2015 01:21 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 01:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 24 2015 01:16 Xatalos wrote:
On October 24 2015 01:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
For the record, why Xatalos' read on me is shit and why i think he is scum is this:
I mean.... Your merits this game are defending rayn (who's played exactly according to his scumgame so far, and made many unfathomable logical jumps) based on something that never really happened at the start, and some vague "nice posts" he's made. And attacking Slam for posts that I actually really liked about ritoky/rayn.

This is a complete mischaracterisation of my play. I never ever do this. I never do this as town, i never do this as mafia. I have never changed my read on anyone without a reason or a "reason" (as mafia). I always have a reason for why i post the things i do.

I have clearly explained every single read change i have had in this game (which is basically GlowingBear, Xatalos himself and ritoky). I went onto a long conversation about ritoky earlier, and at that time apparently there was nothing wrong with it for him. But now again it is a reason for scumreading me? I have also explained why i changed my read on GlowingBear, at that time there was nothing wrong with it for him? It should be really easy to see why i think Xatalos is mafia - or at least a bit earlier - why i reconsidered my read on him.

Slam's points on me are literally shit, and as marv pointed out Slam just decided he calls me mafia nad then started quoting my posts and called them scummy. All of his points are unture, what he says i have for example done in the last couple of games -- i have literally did the same thing (which makes me scumread GB too, as he should know Slam's points are shit, yet he doesn't address them -- as i just acted towards GB the same way in the last two games). Somehow Xatalos thinks those points are good? Bullshit. Bull-fucking-shit.

Another thing is he is trying to paint my read on him as OMGUS when there is nothing even close to that. I have actually reasons to think he is scum. He isn't trying to figure out my alignment, and to be honest this is kinda funny because all he says is "he did the exact same thing last time he was mafia and i caught him", funnily enough this is the EXACT case i myself made on rsoultin in that game. He is also not not even re-considering his read in any way when marv, who is the only person who can ever read me correctly all the time, heavily disagrees with his read. Instead he decides that we must BOTH be mafia. I find it almost impossible to believe that's what he actually thinks.

There is basically no way Xatalos thinks i am most likely to flip mafia here. I could understand he thinks i am mafia, but not like this, and not for the reasons he pulls out of his ass. He is basically not a person who "yolo's" a scumread like this without digging further into it. If he did, he would see that:
1) my reads are not actually unexplained, nor are the changes on them, it's really easy to see why i do the stuff i do
2) me acting like "i did as mafia" is a pure mischaracterisation of my play.

The read is wrong and lazy as fuck, and misses all the reasoning for me to do things i do (which btw is there if you read closely).


Well, it is OMGUS. It literally went like "Xatalos is prolly just town" -> "oh wait, he scumreads me?" -> "100% scum" in like... a couple of minutes. Your reads ARE very weird and especially their progression. You've pretty much went against anyone currently "under fire" regardless of your previous stances on them. Whenever thread sentiment turns against someone, you conveniently find some scummy post that you forgot about him earlier and vote for him. The same thing repeated with ritoky, GB and me... Town -> scum because of thread sentiment / OMGUS, not because anything actually changed in reality.

Again, this is just not true.
I decided to look further on GB because of what yamato, marv and Vivax said.
I actually dug myself further into ritoky.
I have thought Slam is mafia all game.

Somehow you are incapable of seeing why i did these things, when it should be very clear from my filter. And that is why i think you are scum. You are just painting it as "unexplained read changes" when it's definitely not.


Well, you just said it like it is... Hard defense -> heavy scumread based on thread sentiment, while finding some sort of justification (a single bad post or something) in their filter. It's just too drastic and the timings are too convenient. Slam has been a PoE read, conveniently always staying in the Poe regardless of all the shifts, and now it's OMGUS.

What do you mean "conveniently". Slam did nothing for a good stretch of time, then spam posted the thread. 80% of which was "hey check out why rayn in scum".
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 26 2015 14:08 GMT
#1984
Sorry for dying over the weekend, I got a new job and everyone insisted on my coming out to celebrate. Getting started on catching up.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 26 2015 16:42 GMT
#2125
im basically never going to vote for Xata or Rayn (maybe rayn in lylo) they're my top town. Loving gumshoe's and BH's recent posting, like chromatically as well. Kind of null about GB, I'd vote him but more on a PoE basis. Honestly dont remember much of VivaxThink there is some good effort to keep things on track from Vivax, though it was pissed away to tell rayn to fuck off basically. Onegu still feels like he's "testing" me so I'm going to let him be for the time being but I really want to OMGUS him. Association to yamato looks shitty too, and yamato has been about as useful as I have this game, except I'm expected to be trash and he's not.

##Vote: Yamato77

also you guys voting rayn while thinking hes town....you're as bad as him for doing that.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 29 2015 13:44 GMT
#2917
##vote: Xatalos
Placeholder, no one in their right mind will vote him.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 29 2015 13:50 GMT
#2919
im filtering onegu and gb for the time being since those are the wagons.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
October 29 2015 16:29 GMT
#2928
##unvote
##Vote: GlowingBear


On October 30 2015 01:12 gumshoe wrote:
##Vote gb

I dont like the tone of his last posts / : the logic hes proposing is just so bad, paticularly bad considering hes one of the first to jump on your dick if you use "wifom'. I'm not sure a townie wouldn't realize how unconvincing they are with arguments like his.

Agree with this, and onegu doesnt seem as bad as GB after reading through their filters. GB is constantly throwing around "but what about this scummy thing thats just like me", seems like trying to deflect from himself.
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Summer Champion…
11:00
Group Stage 1 - Group B
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 103
Harstem 101
IndyStarCraft 86
SC2_NightMare 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33689
Rain 16276
Jaedong 743
Bisu 734
Larva 547
BeSt 504
EffOrt 339
Mini 299
ggaemo 270
Free 242
[ Show more ]
TY 239
Zeus 208
Last 207
Rush 198
Snow 152
Hyun 116
ZerO 96
Aegong 89
Soma 80
Pusan 68
ToSsGirL 58
Soulkey 56
Backho 34
soO 30
sSak 28
Icarus 25
sorry 21
yabsab 19
JulyZerg 19
Sharp 19
SilentControl 17
scan(afreeca) 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Noble 14
Sexy 13
IntoTheRainbow 12
Bale 12
HiyA 11
zelot 10
ivOry 8
Hm[arnc] 4
Terrorterran 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 522
XcaliburYe330
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1844
x6flipin567
allub164
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King77
Other Games
gofns7803
FrodaN2704
singsing1892
B2W.Neo867
DeMusliM317
crisheroes276
Fuzer 127
SortOf82
QueenE29
ZerO(Twitch)5
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV723
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 22
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta23
• Adnapsc2 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV227
League of Legends
• Jankos808
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
22h 17m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
23h 17m
Replay Cast
1d 12h
LiuLi Cup
1d 23h
Online Event
2 days
SC Evo League
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
4 days
RotterdaM Event
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

StarCon 2025 Philadelphia
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.