EPT[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 19
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
I am in blood stepp'd so far, that should I wade no more, returning were as tedious as go'er. We lynched 1G and GB. Now we lynch H1. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
well, one more to go. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
hah. yeah, it's a good point though, we're pretty much free to talk since that's the case | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On November 06 2015 01:56 Vivax wrote: Why does it have to be you gumshoe? I just said I wasn't sure who's mafia anymore but you say it has to be between you and me. Well, you have been kinda pushing the guy for a day or two. Like, assuming you're legitimately hunting scum and not just prodding desperately looking for anyone lynchable, one might assume your scumread of Gumshoe wouldn't have changed after this really low key H1 lynch. What's actually going on here, I suspect, is that you're scum that was hoping Gummy would be lynchable and now, finding that he's putting up a strong defense, is scrambling for any way to survive the next day. The fact that you responded to this with a question like that and not like a "ah, my scumread is actually on X for reason Y" does little for you in my eyes. That said, I do respect your asserted drive and motivation. I will listen to what you have to say. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
Look, when it comes down to it it's pretty clear what's going on here, and what has been going on. The H1/1G/Vivax scumteam makes sense, from Vivax's strange pushes on people, to the fact that he's happy with anyone getting lynched as long as it's not him, to the way he handled D2 and his attitude towards his teammates. GB had it right. Chromatically and Gumshoe have both put forth massive amounts of effort, not just to clear their names or push their scumreads, but actually puzzle out what's going on in this game. Analyzing motives, talking to their targets and people who have reads on their targets, and so on. There's basicailly nothing that will convince me to vote either of them. My tonereads on Vivax, as well as the general way he's played, has made me pretty sure he's scum. There's something else, too, niggling at the back of my mind, and I have to do some research-- I think he usually picks strange NKs as mafia. I'll have to take a look and make sure this is true, and it's really a minor detail. It all makes sense, really. ##vote vivax I'm on hand for discussion, as always. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
IT was in Game of Thrones mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/482863-game-of-thrones-mini-mafia A 13-player game, and the order of things happened like this: Scumteam: Vivax, Vayne, GlowingBear (their QT ) D1 - LS is lynched (typical; LS is a classic mislynch) N1 - Artanis[Xp] is shot by the vigi, Palmar is shot by Scum (Palmar is a pretty normal shot) D2 - Oatsmaster (watcher) is lynched N2 - sicklucker (!!!!) is shot, instead of Holyflare or WoS D3 - GB the GF is lynched N3 - Koshi the Vigi is shot (forced, IIRC) D4 - loafery is modkilled, Vivax is lynched N4 - Holyflare is shot There are some interesting things Vivax said in the scum QT, and I remember reading through this QT and thinking his philosophy of NKs is a little strange. Anyone who has played with me knows that generally I think the best strategy is to always shoot the most dangerous player— whoever is towniest and has best analysis— so that you enter endgame with just lynchbait. Vivax, though, wrote things like this: “More worried about Wave, Palmar isn't doing anything. Just that Wave has a good shot at being jailed” (he was overridden on this; and yes, he’s trying dodge a blue but the point is there) “Better to fight and shit up the thread than goig down silently.” “Can we kill SL?” Now some people are talking about SL potentially being the vigi here right, but there’s no vigi vlaim (And the vigi is in fact Koshi) I But basically the NKs are: 1. Palmar (best player in that game; definitely a good N1 shot, but this was opposed by Vivax) 2. sicklucker (attempting to snipe the 1-shot vigi over the much more dangerous HF 3. Koshi (vigi shot, forced 4. HF, but only after Vivax is lynched, and after his lynch vayne pushed through a HF shot with no opposition. So this seems really small, but basically GlowingBear, who was also active in that QT, laid out a plan of killing WoS, Onegu, Hf, or SL. WoS and HF are both better players than SL. In general though, all of these are above SL in priority (even if the Onegu idea is a bit WTF) and vivax just asks for an SL kill. I just recall it seeming really really strange that HolyFlare lived so long. WAveofShadow is never killed either. By the start of D4, this was a game where the kills were pretty “WTF” and I am reminded of it. It’s worth noting that Vivax DOES Submit the nks for his team in Gaiden 2, a game that included lots of “heavyweights” like Palmar and Marvellosity, all of whom need like, immediate shooting if you’re scum. Scum had 2 NKs during N1, and here’s what Vivax submitted: ##Vivax shoot rsoultin ##Vivax roleblock JAT ##Kelsier shoot WaveofShadow Like, when these flips happened, we saw posts like: On August 29 2015 07:02 Trfel wrote: Hm.... Interesting. On August 29 2015 07:03 KelsierSC wrote: ummm going to sleep, reading again tomorow On August 29 2015 07:03 justanothertownie wrote: Thanks mafia. Shooting WoS was nice. On August 29 2015 07:04 Trfel wrote: I don't know what that means at all. I guess it makes sense if justanothertownie is scum, or if mafia wanted to kill WaveofShadow instead of justanothertownie for some reason. Though it’s worth noting KSC was scum, these posts are telling. It sounds familiar, doesn’t it? In general, besides ignoring the NK, most people thought these nks were pretty strange— and they were! If scum had been shooting at the towniest players, they may have won. Vivax must have some strange philosophy about how NKs should work, and I think this explains a lot of what we’ve been scratching our heads over this game with night actions. Obviously, yes, all NK shit is WIFOM, but these NKs have been pretty bizarre. We may already think Vivax is scum, but this really falls into place. Basically, I’ve kinda been bashing my head against the wall all game with these NKs. Marv N1— okay, okay. Fine. Even if he was angry, I guess. Rayn N2? What? Xat N3, hmm, he was townie but not that… ritoky N4? And now here we are. Marv, Rayn, Xat, Ritoky, all really non-standard nks. Yes, Marv and rayn are both vets, but at the time I can’t imagine anyone here thought they were threats to scum or leading town in any significant way. Normally, you come to a LYLO like this with one obviously scummy player and feel just a little bit nervous, right? Like “hmm, am I playing into scum hands and lynching someone who seems too scummy?” Because typically, I guess… I guess I expect LYLO to always be a shitshow, cause scum usually have NKs that make sense, right? In any case, I guess what I’m getting at here is that we have this really strange pattern of NKs, and It’s been bothering me, at least a little bit, basically all game. I think this is just Vivax at play though. Yes, Marv and Rayn LOOK like normal NKs, but we all remember what they were like before they were shot. I think we’re really on the right track here with Vivax, based on how he picks his nightkills historically. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On November 06 2015 08:00 Vivax wrote: The challenge in this game right now is to actually get you to look at each other without the constant thought in your head that I am scum for sure cause it's simply not true. Why do you have to look at each other and comment on that? Cause I got no real slamdunk idea on who is scum right now and I need help from volunteers. I can't solve this game alone, I've been just feeling outplayed for days and I'm paranoid about all of you. So before reading this post I was thinking "hmm, it sounds like Vivax is more interested in finding out who is lynchable than who is scum. he doesn't seem to care WHO is lynched, and instead is trying to feel out who it is possible to lynch as long as it's not him" which seems pretty untownlike. On November 07 2015 02:28 Chromatically wrote: Vivax, what's your order of who you think is the most to least scummy right now? Yeah Vivax, right now it sounds like this is Gumshoe you're most willing to lynch, is this an accurate summary of your scumread? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On November 06 2015 08:00 Vivax wrote: The challenge in this game right now is to actually get you to look at each other without the constant thought in your head that I am scum for sure cause it's simply not true. Why do you have to look at each other and comment on that? Cause I got no real slamdunk idea on who is scum right now and I need help from volunteers. I can't solve this game alone, I've been just feeling outplayed for days and I'm paranoid about all of you. So before reading this post I was thinking "hmm, it sounds like Vivax is more interested in finding out who is lynchable than who is scum. he doesn't seem to care WHO is lynched, and instead is trying to feel out who it is possible to lynch as long as it's not him" which seems pretty untownlike. Reading it did not change my opinion. On November 07 2015 02:28 Chromatically wrote: Vivax, what's your order of who you think is the most to least scummy right now? Yeah Vivax, right now it sounds like this is Gumshoe you're most willing to lynch, is this an accurate summary of your scumread? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
basically, this entire game i have pushed hard to figure out this game. I've been wrong at times (pushing yam over gb; though both were town anyways, and i did try to shenannie onto 1g, h1, and gb) but in general I think I've played a really really good game. I helped drive us towards the right set of lynches, kept wagons together on 1g, h1, and gb, and basically all game have been doing my best to figure out the game. I honestly am proud of how I played this game; this is one of the best town games I've played, definitely in 2015, possibly in years. I was wrong at times but i figured things out. If I seem complacent on this lynch it's because chrom and gumshoe can't possibly be scum, and if it seems like i'm not entertaining vivax' arguments, it's because they're really bad. he's clearly flailing looking for ANYONE to call scum and ANYTHING that can stick. I'm around though if you guys have Qs | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On November 08 2015 06:30 Vivax wrote: Which you say nobody would do as town on the chopping block at lylo? I care about lynching someone else cause I know I'm the wrong lynch. yeah but ur not trying to figure out the game, also like if you were really town, i feel like you'd have... like figured out who was scum and wrote a real case like 72 hours ago, instead of speculating about scum nk? just a thought also the fact that you've been pretending to push h1 and 1g but not actually pushing them and freaked out hard about the 1g lynch,t hen were mad when he got lynched... like i'm pretty sure you're scum dude, maybe you should check your role pm | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On November 08 2015 06:36 gumshoe wrote: Oh shit D : you went the whole game without being bm, what have you done?! yeah that's my bad, i just got a little offended at even being considered given how i've played. i shouldn't let him push my buttons. also, sorry about the BM vivax | ||
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