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On October 28 2015 09:15 ritoky wrote:
i need time to reflect on the player list and think of wifom of who kills rayn because kill people capable of solving the game instead of me/gumdrop who are universal town reads. it takes a specific level of disrespect to make that kill, not every1 has it.
Your thinking about this wrong.
It doesn't matter who would kill rayn, the kill is nonsensical, it was unoptimal no matter how you look at it, as he was dividing town through sheer precence.
The real question is, what is the one fact that the rayn kill DOES tells us about scum? Regardless of who it is that killed rayn, what do we now know about them?
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On October 28 2015 09:24 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 09:11 gumshoe wrote:
Kk lets play a game, avoid all the meta, all the bullshit, lets talk about what the one thing the Rayn kill actually tells us.
You get two obvious hints for this riddle
1) baring a modkill scum NEEDS two mislynches to win.
2) scum have not yet forfeited.
So what is the one thing the Rayn kill actually tells us? Super townie points to the one who figures it out : D
bonus question, how does the answer help us find scum : D only one scum in GB/1G/H1
nope : P
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On October 28 2015 09:28 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 09:27 gumshoe wrote:On October 28 2015 09:15 ritoky wrote:
i need time to reflect on the player list and think of wifom of who kills rayn because kill people capable of solving the game instead of me/gumdrop who are universal town reads. it takes a specific level of disrespect to make that kill, not every1 has it. Your thinking about this wrong. It doesn't matter who would kill rayn, the kill is nonsensical, it was unoptimal no matter how you look at it, as he was dividing town through sheer precence. The real question is, what is the one fact that the rayn kill DOES tells us about scum? Regardless of who it is that killed rayn, what do we now know about them? ...they hate rayn?
could be that too, but still nope : D
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On October 28 2015 09:29 ritoky wrote:
no i am thinking about it the proper way. palmar left me alive all game as a confirmed vigi last game i played because he was more scared of every1 else's town play than he was of mine. it takes a particular level of disrespect.
im not saying your wrong Rit, just that theres something super obvius at play aside from what youve seen. dont take my little riddle the wrong way : P I'm just having fun. I'll give it up soon but lets have a few more trys shall we?
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On October 28 2015 09:30 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 09:29 gumshoe wrote:On October 28 2015 09:28 Blazinghand wrote:On October 28 2015 09:27 gumshoe wrote:On October 28 2015 09:15 ritoky wrote:
i need time to reflect on the player list and think of wifom of who kills rayn because kill people capable of solving the game instead of me/gumdrop who are universal town reads. it takes a specific level of disrespect to make that kill, not every1 has it. Your thinking about this wrong. It doesn't matter who would kill rayn, the kill is nonsensical, it was unoptimal no matter how you look at it, as he was dividing town through sheer precence. The real question is, what is the one fact that the rayn kill DOES tells us about scum? Regardless of who it is that killed rayn, what do we now know about them? ...they hate rayn? could be that too, but still nope : D ... they want to silence rayn? come on man the socratic method sucks
Super Nope, ill give it up in five minutes XD see if you can get it before then.
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On October 28 2015 09:32 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 09:32 gumshoe wrote:On October 28 2015 09:30 Blazinghand wrote:On October 28 2015 09:29 gumshoe wrote:On October 28 2015 09:28 Blazinghand wrote:On October 28 2015 09:27 gumshoe wrote:On October 28 2015 09:15 ritoky wrote:
i need time to reflect on the player list and think of wifom of who kills rayn because kill people capable of solving the game instead of me/gumdrop who are universal town reads. it takes a specific level of disrespect to make that kill, not every1 has it. Your thinking about this wrong. It doesn't matter who would kill rayn, the kill is nonsensical, it was unoptimal no matter how you look at it, as he was dividing town through sheer precence. The real question is, what is the one fact that the rayn kill DOES tells us about scum? Regardless of who it is that killed rayn, what do we now know about them? ...they hate rayn? could be that too, but still nope : D ... they want to silence rayn? come on man the socratic method sucks Super Nope, ill give it up in five minutes XD see if you can get it before then. OH OKAY ONE META LEVEL DEEPER Rayn was super wrong about everything, and they want us to THINK they wanted us to silence rayn, and they assumed we'd read and follow his reads, which are all wrong and would lead to disaster!
remember the "beyond the meta, beyond the bullshit " line ? so nope agian : P one more try each as of this post.
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I'll make it easy, mafia NEED mislynches,
so why did they shot Rayn?
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and I am not asking for thier specific reason, just the truth that naturally goes along with thier shot
They shot rayn, which obviously means what?
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On October 28 2015 09:41 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 09:39 gumshoe wrote:
and I am not asking for thier specific reason, just the truth that naturally goes along with thier shot
They shot rayn, which obviously means what? so.... rayn was... not gonna be mislynched?
BOOM give the man a cookie.
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For bh
![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Pepperidge-Farm-Nantucket-Cookie.jpg)
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On October 28 2015 09:46 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 09:42 gumshoe wrote:On October 28 2015 09:41 Blazinghand wrote:On October 28 2015 09:39 gumshoe wrote:
and I am not asking for thier specific reason, just the truth that naturally goes along with thier shot
They shot rayn, which obviously means what? so.... rayn was... not gonna be mislynched? BOOM give the man a cookie. Like I really don't see how this is a useful piece of information, or what this deduction is.
the deduction is this, scum with thier 3 votes, and the existing town support of 2-3 voteswas so sure that they could not ensure a rayn mislynch that they killed him for some other reason. But the sure they could not kill bit is the important part.
The argument against Rayn was static, you ethier thought rayn could be a dick as mafia, or couldnt. You come down one way, and god help you if you flop the other later on to get rayn lynched, only to have him flip green / :
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I think there is a good chance the majority of the scum team (2 out of 3) were reading rayn as town in thread. They did this early on because it was really obvious to them that he was town (them being scum and all) and cornered themselves by giving out a correct read in the hopes that ethier rayn would get lynched and they would look good, or that rayn would be more likely to town read them.
scum were never going to be poised to capitalize on the ire rayn earned from town. Why did they specifically kill him? Dont know, but if there was any chance for them to mislynch him, I dont think they would, which means voting him would require several scum players reversing thier rayn reads for no good reason / : which would result in thier surefire lynch soon after.
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On October 28 2015 09:45 ritoky wrote:
that's a particularly weird and bad conclusion coming from you. because you or i would have been the shot if going by not gonna be ML'd people long before rayn. rayn at least had some potential left.
RIGHT.
scum NEED mislynches, they would not shoot rayn unless a mislynch on him wasnt possible at all / :
which is silly, because rayn was clearly the easiest to mislynch right? you me bh xata vivax chrom, none of us are even remotley as close as rayn was to getting burned.
Which means that there was some other reason they felt he couldn't be mislynched,
Thier are 2 major factors to pulling off a mislnych
1) how much do the townies suspect the fellow
2) how poised are mafia to pounce on him without looking scummy as hell.
We can pretty reliably rule out factor 1 as the case, which means it almost has to be factor 2 / :
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For refrence here are onegu and Hopeless's views on Rayn atm.
OneguI didnt and dont like his push on rayn. I pointed out why rayn was town and he said that what i said pointed to rayn being mafia not town and it didnt.
hopelesim basically never going to vote for Xata or Rayn (maybe rayn in lylo) they're my top town
No need to think about it too much honestly, staying the course should work out fine : P
just take this as a bit of a confidence booster in todays lynch XD
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Do you guys really not get the whole Rayn thing?
rayn dying means scum felt they couldn't mislynch him.
scum not bieng able to mislynch him means at least 2 out of three scum are town reading him and to turn around and lynch him for no real reason would be super scummy of them.
Is this really such a stretch?
Basically my argument is that the majority of the scum team couldn't lynch rayn cause they were town reading rayn.
No it's not game ending, but it is useful information to cross refrence with what you all already know.
Def not "gumshoe dafack are you doing" worthy 0_0
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For instance, you could probally rule out scum combinations such as
xat gb
or gb vivax
or vivax xat
as these are the kind of teams that could viably lynch Rayn / :
like sheesh people, this argument is at least somewhat useful / :
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On October 28 2015 11:44 ritoky wrote:
yeah but he's been soft deflecting off of gb for a while now, and he had that whole "yamato and gb are opposite alignments" thing that was weird but i was like "....ok" and then he rolls out today wanting to lynch onegu. who pretty much every1 who has died town read....it's gone from soft deflecting to pretty hard deflection.
Sorry but your flat out wrong.
Then theres Gb, there may not be any way to avoid lynching him honestly / : so long as players like chrom and rayn are set on Gb, town cant really function. That and I might have just been wrong about him T_T
I have one more potential scum read, but at this point the well becomes pretty foggy and there's no point calling up a shitstorm when I don't have any hard evidence.
I will say that if Onegu and hopeless arent both scum, then someone here has been playing a really good game. Which means were in trouble ) : If we want a certain lynch, these two would probally be best. But it might too much for town to function until we've cleared Gb so hes the other choice / :
Between Hopeless and Onegu, I would lynch hopeless first.
Otherwise Gb will have to go just as a matter of course / : even though I really am not that sold on him.
I have 4 potential scum reads, onegu gb hopeless and one more who I wont lynch until gb dies.
Unless hopeless and onegu are both town, gb dies anyways.
If you want to lynch him today go ahead / : its gonna happen eventually anyways. We wont really be able to effectively consolidate till he flips is my guess.
but your the one who told me that were supposed to lynch scum / : and Onegu seems way scummier than gb, so there ya go.
As for my meta you'll find at least 4 games where I push super hard to get a townie lynched... as town T_T(such as yesterday) and maybe one scum game where I actively do so, but even then to a far lesser extent. Every other scum game I just lurk. If you still think activity is a sign of town, that should be all you need / :
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btw the following teams are impossible
xatalos ritoky
ritoky vivax
ritoky gb
gb vivax
gb xatalos
vivax xat
of any of these teams were a thing, scum wouldn't have shot Rayn / :
carry on.
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If my logic seems a bit strange, let me let you all in on the tale/secret of gumshoe : D
The very first mafia game I played well, I figured out a complex situation that was dividing town. It involved catching scum and fake role claims and nazis and there was sooooo much trashtalk, but the end result? Scum was lynched / : it was the best feeling ever. I solved the mystery and saved the day. Just the day though, we ended up losing soon after when I led town into two consequetive mislynches. Story of the shoe ) :
Every game since though, I have chased that high, that moment of clarity when the seas of logic and empathy part before me to reveal the truth o_o some players just play for the sake of it, but others are chasing a high. Rayn desires the 'proper' game, slam wants to help town by being somewhat silly yet simultaneously wise and insightful, and I want to catch the 'mystery. That might translate into mislynches, bm, and shit play, but its supposed to be just that. Play.
A quest for Fun.
A search for that particular Thrill.
Tldr
If Gumshoe is spending his time chasing wierd fucking theories, dont mind him,hes probably town.
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On October 28 2015 13:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 12:29 gumshoe wrote:
Do you guys really not get the whole Rayn thing?
rayn dying means scum felt they couldn't mislynch him.
scum not bieng able to mislynch him means at least 2 out of three scum are town reading him and to turn around and lynch him for no real reason would be super scummy of them.
Is this really such a stretch?
Basically my argument is that the majority of the scum team couldn't lynch rayn cause they were town reading rayn.
No it's not game ending, but it is useful information to cross refrence with what you all already know.
Def not "gumshoe dafack are you doing" worthy 0_0
I don't think you're necessarily wrong but imagine this "scum shot rayn because of the way scum votes were on him-- they realized that it wouldn't be possible to lynch him without at least 3 townies changing from townreading rayn to scumreading him. since this was impossible, there was no way for him to get lynched." This is a good summary of your thoughts, right? well this describes pertty well a situation with all scum not voting rayn, but it ALSO describes a situation where scum are voting rayn and literally all townies think he's town. Like, AND AGAIN, I'm not saying this is true, just pointing out the gap in your logic, it's totally possible that someone gets shot and before he was shot scum were trying to push him and town was resisting. In any case, all of it doesn't matter, it's not a point in 1G's defense that your explanation is quite strange. Like, think about it this way-- the explanation could explain any distribution of scum. In any case, lynch 1G
Fair enough enough / : lynch the guu.
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EPT
