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In the meantime I went carefully through alakaslams filter - alright, so his reasons for flip flopping on superbia were legit - namely he saw fidei's post about superbia not committing to reads.
It was extremely tenuous to follow all that though and though superbia posed a question as to what made him mafia, slam throws a very weird response "reconsidering you" - why don't you just say "fidei's post made me reconsider you" or something more direct, just seems awkward wording there. IDK.
Now having read superbia's filter in the meanwhile and having my own opinions, I am curious as to the followup from slam on that not just with fidei's post but also post-lynch. Especially since I saw posts 1392 and 1460, slam's only other scumread besides gb is superbia.
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On September 08 2015 09:30 Superbia wrote:
Why is copcake mafia?
Hang on. I kept hammering the same post home d1. Going to find it again lol.
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This is NOT my case/points, but these are some points presented against her:
On September 06 2015 06:30 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2015 06:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 06 2015 06:03 n00bKing wrote:On September 06 2015 02:10 yamato77 wrote: n00bKing wrote:
On THIS site, it seems like the games usually have a few dim bulbs. It's a lower level of play than I'm used to, and I'm still trying to make adjustments. This is an example of such an adjustment. Fucking LOL pot, kettle, black Mmmm, NO. It was only my SECOND game here on this site, when I asked the other players if they knew of any good places to play Mafia-by-Forum. Because this ain't it. Players here don't care, players here don't try, and I don't think some of them would know how to try even if they wanted to. But I had said I would play in Moosy's 4th and final Newbie game, so here I am. stop bitching. this is the site with the most quality mafia games on the internet. why is cake mafia? Most games, maybe, which is why I came here. Because the places I like to play don't have games as frequently. But there's no quality here. Cake is suspicious because her vote against me comes in an obvious pile-on position for Scum that is looking for a safe place to land. She continually says things about Moosy that are not true, and projects onto him her own scummy behaviors, as though she's watching a mirror instead of watching him. She is also overly defensive in situations that don't call for it. Which is not always a Scum trait, but is seen from Scum more often than from Town, in my experience. GlowingBear and Scott (mostly GB) have cited specific posts from CopCake that are suspicious, and I had similar findings.
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superbia -
On September 06 2015 06:59 NocturneMage wrote:
Going through Copcake's filter as one of the issues requested - some leans I see from both alignments.
mafia - the reads on glowingbear make zero sense. First she asks him how is rayn mafia then there's zero to little follow up on gb until her list post. But there her read still doesn't make sense - if gb doesn't care whether he dies or not shouldn't that make him town? the mafia need to try and survive, at least that's what gb (lol) told me in the mafia qt from my last newbie game. Anyways, also expanding on the useless details might help here - because I saw where he returned a rebuttal on rayn's read on breshke - didn't think that was useless for example.
- also post 611 on moosydoosy - if moosydoosy is paying too much attention to her isn't that a towntell if he's pushing her? Or at least not alignment if he has to defend himself? I read around that post and I don't see how moosy is being "antagonistic".
- read on slam - alright I don't know either of her or slam so I will ignore meta. But to say that slam is town for not being antagonistic like moosy or n00bking - this is not exclusive to mafia, I just got done finishing observing the personality game and Mr. Nice Guy in Judge Judy carried mafia.
Basically this read is a bad reason to read Slam town, I am finding most of his posting nonsensical at best but for the reasons you specified it's a poor reason
Those are scumtells, admittedly your read on moosy and you pushing him is a town action, so I'm going to say a null to scum lean on you for now.
Also since you mentioned it what do you mean by pocketing? I'm sure I've heard it in my only other game but I forget the meanting now.
On September 07 2015 00:35 Fidei86 wrote:
I just re-read 817 NM, what were your thoughts on it? I don't think that "that's just how I play" is ever a good excuse for scummy play. But then again, like I said before, I don't see any particular reason to scum read her for her play. I admit that I might be biased because I've played voice Mafia with cake and she seemed very nice. But in those games she was always town and she got scum read a lot. Her responses in this game have reminded me a lot of how she played then too.
So, yeah, I won't vote to lynch her today. I'm going to go back to Slam's filter again. You said he plays with a lot of filler always - I need to try and find some of his substantive posts to really wrestle with.
That's the thing though, you basically answered my question. That was a pretty bad answer like she didn't want to respond. I know the case was made for her being non native, so I am reading around that and trying to give her a chance to explain how gb is scummy - at least alakaslam is explaining that gb isn't thinking for himself, which explains a mafia motivation/action, whether that's founded or not is a different issue.
I said to her I had trouble understanding why she's voting people or scumreading people for things that reflect town actions. I outlined that in a previous post -
On September 06 2015 06:59 NocturneMage wrote:
Going through Copcake's filter as one of the issues requested - some leans I see from both alignments.
mafia - the reads on glowingbear make zero sense. First she asks him how is rayn mafia then there's zero to little follow up on gb until her list post. But there her read still doesn't make sense - if gb doesn't care whether he dies or not shouldn't that make him town? the mafia need to try and survive, at least that's what gb (lol) told me in the mafia qt from my last newbie game. Anyways, also expanding on the useless details might help here - because I saw where he returned a rebuttal on rayn's read on breshke - didn't think that was useless for example.
- also post 611 on moosydoosy - if moosydoosy is paying too much attention to her isn't that a towntell if he's pushing her? Or at least not alignment if he has to defend himself? I read around that post and I don't see how moosy is being "antagonistic".
- read on slam - alright I don't know either of her or slam so I will ignore meta. But to say that slam is town for not being antagonistic like moosy or n00bking - this is not exclusive to mafia, I just got done finishing observing the personality game and Mr. Nice Guy in Judge Judy carried mafia.
Basically this read is a bad reason to read Slam town, I am finding most of his posting nonsensical at best but for the reasons you specified it's a poor reason
Those are scumtells, admittedly your read on moosy and you pushing him is a town action, so I'm going to say a null to scum lean on you for now.
Also since you mentioned it what do you mean by pocketing? I'm sure I've heard it in my only other game but I forget the meanting now.
I haven't played voice mafia, so I can't really comment on that. I have nothing to go on except the way she presents herself here. And I tell you the same thing I am telling rayn, I don't really want to rely on metareads from other people.
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now here's the kicker, this was all d1. if gb flips scum, it's this stuff that whilst it makes it unlikely that cake is or would get a teammate killed d1, the reasons she specified in her list post are poor. For example, slam is nice therefore is town. Really? Personality Mafia anyone? In general not every scum player is or acts like a dick.
When you also take that and combine it with the fact that a few of us are struggling to make sense of Slam's filter and are finding it much more tenuous (save for people who might know him that well like yamato) it makes that read look much worse. Cake seems to be inexperienced so it doesn't make sense that she's just townread him off something easily like that.
The read on moosy also seemed like a weasal argument as well - I read around her response to him and Moosy had pretty well laid out explanations as for his reads to her.
The gb read I explained was faulty because she was scumreading him for what was a town behaviour.
There's that and the overall argument from Scott that she's very much in the backseat aside that list post. Though according to n00bking there was some other argument from him IDK.
Now at this juncture gb's flip will give me some pause, but that was my overall issue with her d1 prior to the entire doctor claims that went down.
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On September 08 2015 09:46 CopCake wrote:
> cake is mafia because the dude that was lynched believed that
yeah is the best case ever
get a nobel prize ready already pls.
It's not that he believed you were mafia, it's WHY. Please.
And now that you are here, here's a question -
so if gb flips mafia, who are his partners and why?
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Yeah MD I also took issue with #3, she blew that out of proportion by saying you were antagonising her. Like I read around her response to you. Her comment against you is bullshit.
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On September 08 2015 09:52 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 09:52 NocturneMage wrote:
Yeah MD I also took issue with #3, she blew that out of proportion by saying you were antagonising her. Like I read around her response to you. Her comment against you is bullshit. what do you think about the case in general?
I think the case overall is excellent. #1 and 3 were points that n00bking alluded to, and #3 and #5 were similar to the ideas I was hammering home.
I'm also not impressed she couldn't readily produce the associative reads off her top scum read.
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On September 08 2015 09:55 CopCake wrote:You are going to vote me when there is confirmed mafia in glowing bear? wtf? yeah gg you are the other mafia 
Honestly if MD were mafia and his scummate had gotten counterclaimed by Mr. Town Leader, most mafia would just go full bus mode and blend in, not draw full out attention like this especially drawing the ire of said Town Leader. There's nothing scummy about someone who makes a case and believes in his case, he's believed it in from the off. It's on you to poke holes in it.
I'd argue he's pretty towny on a day we could easily go so-called autopilot and fuck off based on this counterclaim, he's still doing a load of work.
So far you haven't been able to refute any of the points made against you. Nor have you answered any of the questions posed since d1.
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On September 08 2015 10:21 Breshke wrote:
I'm fine with people looking for other mafia but you should be voting GB
I am.
Another interesting observation - more questions from superbia (to md) not much doing with them. Even asked for the case, I wonder what he thinks of the case on cake.
I know it's late here but he WAS around.
No followup on his alakaslam suspicion either. superbia, can you point out where in the filter slam's push on your is scummy?
or is there something in his filter besides the push you feel is a problem?
It's 2:30am here. This is it for me. Good night.
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On September 08 2015 21:53 Fidei86 wrote:
Okay I can't help myself.
MD: "reads" aren't the most important thing here. We have a claim and a counter-claim. Look at the circumstances. Rayn's makes sense, GB's doesn't. reads can feed into that, but having a "read" on someone like Cake, be stronger than the claim analysis just strikes me as super-duper weird. I shouldn't have to explain this.
+1
Also like I said last night, there's one caveat to Cake being mafia and that's the fact she pushed gb most of day 1, although as I alluded to her list post, it was for bad reasons. A day 1 bus is unlikely for most people from what I understand but if gb was getting enough pressure by the time she really started pushing him, a bus situation may be more realistic. I have not looked at that quite closely yet but it was something that came to mind looking through the people that were pushing gb day 1.
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Also in reference to what boxerfred said about the filter diving, maybe I wasn't clear but I looked at the slam/superbia interactions and especially when you look at what superbia threw last night without any followup and slam's reasoning for changing his stance on superbia even if it wasn't particularly articulate, I think slam comes off looking much better and superbia quite worse.
he balks d1 at not being town leader or something like that, he asks for the case on copcake, and his only scumread for what I could tell was slam which amounts to a bit of omgus. I looked into slam's read change or potential read change on superbia and it makes sense, the change based on fidei's reads on him.
Someone (scott? or was it fidei?) mentioned there was a lot of questions coming from him and not a lot of "doing" with those questions. so since you're here fidei, can we talk about superbia? I think he has a pretty realistic chance of being scum.
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Actually that goes for anyone really who might be suspicious of him, not just Fidei.
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I've observed/read enough games (two at least) where autopilot mentality has cost town. which is why I thought md was probable town, he isn't just fucking off, and he's made it clear he's not willing to split votes (post 1597) but still wants to get his point across on a case he believes in.
MD if you are still here who do you think the final scum could be? (assuming gb flips red and if copcake is mafia in your world)
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On September 08 2015 22:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not really, we are looking for 1 more scum.
And at this point i am biased of thinking NM is the last scum because he cannot realize Cake cannot possibly be mafia.
On September 08 2015 21:58 NocturneMage wrote:
Also like I said last night, there's one caveat to Cake being mafia and that's the fact she pushed gb most of day 1, although as I alluded to her list post, it was for bad reasons. A day 1 bus is unlikely for most people from what I understand but if gb was getting enough pressure by the time she really started pushing him, a bus situation may be more realistic. I have not looked at that quite closely yet but it was something that came to mind looking through the people that were pushing gb day 1.
?????
I said this before last night as well.
I'm scumreading cake based on her behaviour and Scott even mentioned the filter was poor list post aside. But I am willing to re-evaluate.
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Okay seriously.
Look at page 7 of Superbia's filter we have the following -
Scumread on MD that amounts to TMI on n00bking.
Scumread on Fidei that is related to his voting - and he hasn't followed up since.
Scumread on Alakaslam where Alakaslam mentions in each of his posts why the town read on superbia is there and why he's re-evaluating (fidei's post), he's even said he's reconsidering and still had to look up superbia. So I don't know where superbia gets "soft pushing" from.
It's basically that both needed to follow up there, but the point remains.
Then superbia asks md whether gb is town or mafia, and asks for the case on copcake, and he just isn't or had not done anything with it.
And he was present when the claim situation went down, he has yet to vote.
So I'm curious to see where he stands on fidei and md because regardless of the claim analysis there's serious lack of followup from his end, although the fact he's not even taken a stance on the claim situation just looks really bad too.
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rayn, here's the thing, her play has been scummy to me, so I can't ignore that. I don't think in terms of absolutes either as the claim situation from gb is stronger than my read (or any read) on cake and I'm working backwards on that and looking at all possibilities.
that's why I'm talking about a possible bus in a world where gb and cake are both mafia, do I think it's likely, probably not, but her gameplay has me thinking twice. I'd hate to have just entirely ignored the possibility where someone (anyone) makes a sick bus early on in the game and then rides that cred to victory.
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and yet again I can't tell why you'd assume illogical = mafia. several situations I've observed where "illogical" townies have gotten mislynched in these games. or where townies have played suboptimally and just mafia-sided hard.
If you think my scum reading copcake is mafia driven or flawed (or with md's) I'm surprised she hasn't refuted the points made. Personally I understand the confirmation bias argument with some of the points made by md, but to me it's just when you take all those points together, you have a fairly strong case.
Even if you or her think the case is bad if she was town, I don't get why she isn't carrying on and looking for the other two scum or in her world where gb and md are scum, the last scum. At some point, to me, any town just sitting back and not doing anything isn't going to help.
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On September 08 2015 22:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 22:24 NocturneMage wrote:
rayn, here's the thing, her play has been scummy to me, so I can't ignore that. I don't think in terms of absolutes either as the claim situation from gb is stronger than my read (or any read) on cake and I'm working backwards on that and looking at all possibilities.
that's why I'm talking about a possible bus in a world where gb and cake are both mafia, do I think it's likely, probably not, but her gameplay has me thinking twice. I'd hate to have just entirely ignored the possibility where someone (anyone) makes a sick bus early on in the game and then rides that cred to victory. Let's assume you believe the second part you wrote is true. How can you possibly ever think anyone is mafia if "anything is possible"?
I don't understand where that second question comes from.
It's an either/or situation:
Cake is town and her push on gb was towny.
Cake is mafia and had a strategy where she pushed gb for the cred.
Where day 1 busses are rare, you look at someone's behavior and weigh that against
(1) the timing and content of her push and
(2) the behaviour of other players in the game (ie if enough of them are towny, you could poe her out)
Which ultimately gauges how likely she is to be mafia.
Based on my thoughts about her behaviour that is why the bus thing is still a possibility.
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rayn, is the main reason you are scumreading md because yamato died? or because of his push on copcake? or a combination of both? you have scott talking about confirmation bias (which indicates a town read or a town playing suboptimally) so how is it or where is it that you think what he's doing is mafia driven (wifom aside)?
honest question, what am I missing that goes beyond you saying someone (md or myself) is illogical and is actually mafia driven?
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soooooooooooooooooooooo.........
Does anyone want to talk about superbia possibly being mafia?
Any takers?
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EPT
