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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:24 ruXxar wrote: You said rels was making up a lie to try and get nocturne lynched. Wrong. I said Rels made up a lie to cover for his self-contradiction. Didn't have anything at all to do with Mage. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:27 disformation wrote: All right. Going to reread your filter and Rels case. Hopefully your filter loosk better than Moosy's. :p Probably might as well wait until I've posted the Town Case. Then you'll have a chance to use it in conjunction with your filter read, and see if my defense makes sense in context. (Note that this is just yet another thing I wouldn't say if I were Scum, because the defense is more likely to sound good as a standalone than with context, if none of it were true. I would only want my defense to be combined with context if it IS true.) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:29 ruXxar wrote: You're indirectly saying that scum!rels bussed scum!nocturne based on his first post in the thread, and went as far as making up a lie to get him lynched. I don't believe that for 1 second. No. I'm not saying any of that. You just made it up. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:32 ruXxar wrote: Which he made to cover a up a contradiction he made when trying to push scum on nocturne. Of course it had something to do with mage. No, it doesn't. Who he was pushing at the time is irrelevant to whether he contradicted himself, and irrelevant to whether he covered it up with a lie. But I suppose you "don't get it." | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:35 Damdred wrote: You are being idiotic and not seeing the scum motivation in people piling on and not trying to work the game out and just being funneled. He's doing all the same things you're asking him to see scum motivation in. So you probably can't be too surprised that he isn't opening his eyes. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:39 ruXxar wrote: Yes it does. Because it means that you believe scum!rels was bussing scum!nocturne day 1 as soon as he came into the game. And now you're voting for the person that your scum read was trying to bury. lol, no. It doesn't. I again wonder why you never think before you post. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:44 Damdred wrote: I you do that I'll push a ban on you just like I am moose. Because this is totally detrimental to town play It'll be worth it, just for the story. Moosy gets mod-killed, I get mislynched, and ruXxar gets mod-killed because I flipped Town. You'll have a story to tell for the rest of your Mafia career. "When i was a youngster, I once saw THREE Town players die in ONE Phase. And it was the DAY phase, too!" "Nuh-uh grandpa, no way." | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Like I said, ONE post. And I expect this will be the LAST time I compose any defense of myself. It'll take some hard work for anyone to come up with a NEW justification for how I can be scum, that isn't addressed in this post. So, since this could be the LAST time you see me defending myself, please read carefully. ruXxar, Rels, Scott, Sulfurus (whomever among you is Town)...let's see what kinds of responses you can muster. And if you find portions that can't be answered to, consider what that means. #1) Barakos flipped Red The fact that I expressed willingness to lynch Barakos on several occasions during Day 1 (and then followed through with it) is not the strongest reason why him flipping Red is Town-indicative for me. The best reasons are here: + Show Spoiler + My push on Rels makes no sense at all from a Scum perspective, now that we know Barakos was Scum. If Barakos had flipped Town, then fine. Me wasting all my time chasing after Rels could serve a Scum agenda. But if Barakos and I are both Scum? It does NOT. You [ruXxar] had your vote on Moosy, Ticktock had his vote on Moosy. Sulfurus had Moosy as a scumread, and so did someone else (Breshke, maybe? Not sure right now, and not going to look it up. The important thing is that there was someone else.) The Scum play there is to go after Moosy, instead of giving him the null-to-somewhat-Town read that I did. No one else ever listed Rels as a top Scum suspect. No one else ever voted against Rels. And two players said (in no uncertain terms) that they would not be willing to participate in a lynch of Rels. But I kept at it, instead of taking down Moosy, when all the while, my scumbuddy Barakos is over there twisting in the wind? No. and here: + Show Spoiler + If I had been teamed with Barakos, I would have either: 1) Gotten Moosy lynched in Barakos' place (which looked entirely possible, based on thread sentiment). or 2) Bussed the living snot out of Barakos. Pushing on Rels does NOT maximize my chances of getting a mislynch and saving Barakos. Pushing on Rels ALSO does NOT maximize my chances of getting Town cred when Barakos flips Red. My Day 1 play makes no sense, as a teammate of Barakos. The counterargument to these points was clear enough. That I couldn't just get Moosy lynched in Barakos' place if Moosy was ALSO on my team. And I long-admitted that if Moosy were to flip Red, these points would evaporate. But I don't think Moosy is going to flip Red. And if you do, you should at least wait and see it happen before you lynch me. If the Moosy/n00bKing team is a real thing, there will be plenty of opportunity to lynch me after seeing him flip, without ever putting the game in jeopardy. Otherwise? If Moosy flips Green, then the fact that Barakos flipped Red is strong evidence for my Towniness. This applies as well: + Show Spoiler + On July 26 2015 11:28 n00bKing wrote: Which I probably wouldn't say, if I were Scum, and knew that Barakos was about to flip Red. #2) Rels was roleblocked It's been hypothesized that I could have roleblocked Rels because I was afraid that he was a Cop that was going to turn in a check on me. I find this absurd, because Rels said that if he was the Cop, he would...turn in a check on me. And he offered no other suggestions to the Cop. Have any of you ever made a post like that as the Cop, and then turned in an action that was exactly what you said you'd do? I never have. And I've never seen anyone else do it, either. And I don't expect I ever will. "Common sense" says I won't. Further, it doesn't make any sense that I would spend Day 1 and Night 1 building a case on Rels, and then roleblock him, in a setup with a guaranteed Scum roleblocker and no Town roleblocker. It would undo all of the work I'd done up to that point to try and make him look suspicious, flushing all of that work down the toilet. It would also destroy my own credibility as a scum-hunter, because I look like a donkey for having scumread him all that time, once the roleblock makes him confirmed Town. People would be less likely to listen to who I think we should lynch, because I had been so wrong about Rels. This would make it harder to get the mislynches I would need to come back from the bad start. Scum does not give up control over future lynches just for the sake of WIFOM. Rels had indicated that although roleblocking or killing him WOULD be terrible for a scum n00bKing, maybe I would have felt compelled to do it anyway, just to avoid the threat of him being a Cop that was about to get a redcheck on me. He phrased that like this: Rels wrote: I agree that if you are mafia, it's bad for you to roleblock me (or kill me). BUT if you know there is a cop in the setup, you have no choice but to do that. Bad situation but wifomable > red check. But that's just bad math. Of course there is a choice of not doing that, even IF I think there's a chance that Rels might check me, if he were to be the Cop. Roleblocking/killing Rels has a 100% chance of being bad for me if I'm Scum, because of how him becoming confirmed Town wrecks my credibility as a scum-hunter. Yes, the red check would suck MORE, but Rels becoming confirmed Town absolutely sucks. 100% chance that it sucks. Whereas, the chances of Rels being Cop were only 10%. And the chances of Rels being Cop and turning in a check on me (when that's exactly what he said he would do if he were the Cop) are even less than 10%. If I'm Scum and lost Barakos on Day 1, I cannot do something that has a 100% chance of sucking for me. That's not how to make up ground. I have to take that less than 10% chance of Rels being the Cop and redchecking me (IF I'm the roleblocker and not the Godfather. Otherwise, that less than 10% chance is 0%.) So this is not a close call. This is not a tough decision. There is NO...WAY that I would roleblock Rels. Can't afford it. Why is Rels more likely to be the Cop than other people who suggested a Cop check on me, anyway? As I've outlined, he's actually LESS likely to be Cop than other players. But he certainly isn't MORE likely. So why roleblock HIM, when that's the only roleblock target that destroys everything I've done up to that point? As mentioned earlier in the thread, there were a total of 4 players who either mentioned the idea of me being a Cop check, or mentioned me as possible scum. They were: rayn, Rels, ruXxar, and Sulfurus. I made this post: + Show Spoiler + If I roleblock Sulfurus...eliminates him as a strong mislynch candidate. Sucks for me a little, since I had expressed some suspicion of him. If I roleblock rayn...no problem! This works great! He was the strongest advocate for the Barakos lynch, and was being townread pretty widely. If I roleblock you (ruXxar)....no problem! This works great! You were already being DumbTown-read pretty widely. If I roleblock Rels...it WRECKS MY WHOLE FUCKING GAME TO THIS POINT. If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! And none of my accusers ever made a PEEP in response to it. NOTHING. Because there's no explaining how I pick Rels as the potential Cop to roleblock, over the others. It doesn't make any sense. The roleblock on Rels is powerful evidence that I am Town. #3) Rels was not attacked Let's venture into the fantasyland where I am Scum, and I think Rels could be the Cop, and I'm afraid that he might turn in a check on me. And I'm so afraid of it that I am actually willing to kill or roleblock him, even though it wrecks everything I've done in the game up to this point. In this scenario: Why not just kill him instead of roleblocking him? If I kill him, at least I don't have to DEAL with him anymore. If I roleblock him, then I show everyone that my scumread is Town, and THEN I have to put up with him coming after me again, after I've already battled against him for who knows how many pages. And when he comes after me again, people will lend INCREASED credence to his arguments against me, because of how the roleblock increases his Town Cred. Why would I do this to myself? I signed up for a GAME, so that I could try to have FUN playing it. Do you actually think that I enjoy having to fend off Rels and his BS for Phase after Phase after Phase? Does it sound like I'm having a good time, when I'm doing that? If I were going to confirm Rels as Town on Night 1, I would have just KILLED HIM, and roleblocked one of my other Cop suspects. (or roleblocked him AND kill him, in case he was the Veteran, since I would have known there was one in the setup.) The answer to why Rels was roleblocked but not killed seems reasonably straightforward to me. The Mafia wanted him roleblocked to wreck my credibility as a scum hunter, but they wanted him ALIVE, so that Rels vs. n00bKing would continue, since that shitfight had been one of the only bright spots for them, in a game that had started off terribly for them. #4) Rayn was attacked Night 1 This has some in common with the previous point, but if I had rayn and Rels as Cop suspects who might turn in a check on me, and I was worried about it, why roleblock Rels and try to kill rayn, instead of the other way around? I just outlined the reasons to kill Rels, and now I'll outline the reasons why killing rayn would be LESS attractive. Rayn suggesting me as a potential target for the Cop was, I believe, the first and only time he expressed any reservations about me being Town, through the first cycle. It seemed to me that he was pretty confident I was Town, and that the only reason he suggested me as a check is that he didn't want to have to be paranoid about me later. Maybe he was concerned that although I generally felt Town to him, there was a chance I had been "pocketing" him. Why do I say that he seemed pretty confident I was Town? Because of posts like these: raynpelikoneet wrote: Damdred town. Noobking town. Ruxxar town. Moosy town. Dis-something guy town. Barakos mafia. raynpelikoneet wrote: n00bKing totes townpile (is better than townpile). raynpelikoneet wrote: I also don't understand how anyone can scumread n00bking tbh. So, he was paranoid enough about me that he wouldn't mind seeing a Cop check on me. But I can be reasonably certain that at least I won't have to worry about him trying to LYNCH me on Day 2. Can I say that about Rels? Definitely not. Switching the targets of the kill and roleblock would make more sense, for a scum team with me on it. But I'm not on it. INTERMISSION On July 26 2015 04:32 n00bKing wrote: Come on, yourself. For him to tell rayn why he's scumreading him explains it to everyone else, too. Optimally, he would have already explained it when he first provided the read, but apparently, a lot of people can't be bothered to do that. There's nothing wrong with trying to convince the Town at large of your case by interacting directly with your target. That's what I've been doing with Rels, right? I'm not trying to get Rels to say "Okay, you're right. That's irrefutable proof that I am scum." I expect the other players to read what I'm saying to him. Ha, I told Damdred to come on himself. BACK TO BUSINESS #5) Tried very hard to save Ticktock After having long read Ticktock as Town, I went to great lengths to try and save him from the Noose on Day 2. Since Ticktock and I had played so similarly in so many ways, if I were Scum, I would be stoked to see him lynched ASAP, because his Town flip is Town-indicative for me. But the moment where I eventually say "alright, maybe he IS scum, I guess I'm okay with this lynch" just never came. I battled against his lynch to the end, which doesn't make much sense, when he's on the veteran player list, and keeping him around long-term could bite me in the ass. At this point, ruXxar likes to say that I went TOO far defending a Town player here, expressing willingness to lynch the uncounterclaimed Cop over him. But I must remind you that I specifically said I was not comfortable lynching Scott without a counterclaim, and therefore had THREE players that I wanted to lynch over Scott. Those three players were Sulfurus, NocturneMage and Breshke. And once Ticktock flips Town, those three players were the PoE list for Moosy, and Damdred, and disformation. All of whom are likely Town. #6) Displayed utter and complete fearlessness, with regard to a Cop check Most of the accusations against me revolve around the notion that I'm the roleblocker, and was afraid of being redchecked by the Cop. I'll touch on one of the ways in which my play has been MUCH more befitting for a Godfather (who knows his checks come back Green) than a roleblocker (who knows his check would come back Red). During Night 1, Moosy asks Damdred "Damdred what's your thought on n00bKing vs Rels?" And Damdred responds with: Damdred wrote: I actually think,that noob looks a lot worse because of it. Like I'm of pretty sure rels is town and this tunnel,just makes,me,feel meh. If I'm Scum who lost Barakos on Day 1, it is really important to not have Damdred thinking I look bad. He's an experienced player, who is also being townread by most of the other players. If I'm Scum, then whatever I'm doing that Damdred says looks bad, I better shut it DOWN. Now MAYBE I could keep going with it if I'm the Godfather. And I can try to pull a Cop check on myself. But I better not overdo it, or I'll just get lynched. This is a BALLSY move for a Godfather, to keep going after Rels. But it's a suicide move if I'm the roleblocker, and am THE ONLY player in the game who returns Red on a Cop check. And I kept going with it, showing zero fear of a Cop check, and showing zero fear of taking a hit to my Townie status. Because if Rels was Scum, I knew I was the only one pursuing it. No one is going to catch him any time soon if I don't do it. Behaving this way makes sense if I'm Town. Behaving this way MIGHT be okay if I were the Godfather. It MIGHT be okay if I knew it was a Vig setup. But I CANNOT behave this way if I'm the roleblocker and know it's a Cop setup. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
n00bKing = Town, folks. ![[image loading]](http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/Deal_With_It.jpg) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 17:49 Rels wrote: Don't agree. Point 2 3 and 4 are garbage. Points 1 5 and 6 are strong IMO. Point 1 in particular is very strong is moosy flips green I think. 1 is stronger than 5 and 6. 3 is better than 4, I think. 3 is actually pretty good, unless someone really thinks that having a shouting match with a stranger while I'm trying to play a GAME is my idea of a good time. 2 is the strongest of them all, even over 1. I'll let you get away with not explaining why you think 3 and 4 are garbage. Why is #2 garbage? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:04 Rels wrote: - even if some people were suspicious of you, I was the only one to clearly state I wanted to check only you. In particular I find it hilarious that you mention rayn was suspicious of you, then in point 4 you claim rayn wasn't suspicious almost at all You being the one to state that you would check ONLY me makes you the least likely of the 4 to turn in a check on me. And I said that rayn was paranoid enough to be interested in a Cop check on me on Day 1, but not suspicious enough to want to lynch me on Day 2. That is reasonable. On July 31 2015 18:04 Rels wrote: - once again, if I was cop I would have checked you, so that less that 10% crap is wrong Maybe if you were the Cop, you would have checked me. But in that instance, you would NOT have TOLD everyone you were going to check me. Change the "less than 10%" to just "10%" and it's still a comparison between 10% and 100%. There's still nothing to really think about. I can't possibly roleblock you. Here, I'll get rid of the "less than 10%" for you: Rels had indicated that although roleblocking or killing him WOULD be terrible for a scum n00bKing, maybe I would have felt compelled to do it anyway, just to avoid the threat of him being a Cop that was about to get a redcheck on me. He phrased that like this: But that's just bad math. Of course there is a choice of not doing that, even IF I think there's a chance that Rels might check me, if he were to be the Cop. Roleblocking/killing Rels has a 100% chance of being bad for me if I'm Scum, because of how him becoming confirmed Town wrecks my credibility as a scum-hunter. Yes, the red check would suck MORE, but Rels becoming confirmed Town absolutely sucks. 100% chance that it sucks. Whereas, the chances of Rels being Cop were only 10%. If I'm Scum and lost Barakos on Day 1, I cannot do something that has a 100% chance of sucking for me. That's not how to make up ground. I have to take that 10% chance of Rels being the Cop and redchecking me (IF I'm the roleblocker and not the Godfather. Otherwise, that 10% chance is 0%.) So this is not a close call. This is not a tough decision. There is NO...WAY that I would roleblock Rels. Can't afford it. Answer to that. And answer to this: If I roleblock Sulfurus...eliminates him as a strong mislynch candidate. Sucks for me a little, since I had expressed some suspicion of him. If I roleblock rayn...no problem! This works great! He was the strongest advocate for the Barakos lynch, and was being townread pretty widely. If I roleblock you (ruXxar)....no problem! This works great! You were already being DumbTown-read pretty widely. If I roleblock Rels...it WRECKS MY WHOLE FUCKING GAME TO THIS POINT. If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! Like I said, defending myself now is just copy & paste. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:19 Rels wrote: Easy. I hate these maths stuff 'cause mafia is not a math game. But your math is wrong: I have 10% chance of being the cop. If I am the cop I check you 100%. Chances of check on you: 10%. XXX has 10% chance of being the cop. If XXX is the cop he's going to check you < 100%. Chances of check on you: <10%. Maybe you hate these math stuff because you're bad at math? You have 10% chance of being the Cop. If you are the Cop you check me 100% (horseshit, actual chance is 0.00%, but we'll pretend). Chances of a bad result for me: 10% If I roleblock you, chances of a bad result for me: 100% The result of roleblocking Sulfurus is less bad. The result of roleblocking rayn or ruXxar is hardly bad at all. The only disaster, is roleblocking YOU. n00bKing wrote: If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:22 Breshke wrote: First of all scum rb'ing rels wouldnt have known he would become confirmed town from it that only happened because rayn blocked a shot. If rayn had died and even if he hadnt been VT it could have been theorised that Rels is lieing and the person who died got roleblocked. So there goes that theory. Nope. Rels was already townread anyway. Scum could not expect people to think he was lying about the block, because if he's Scum himself, he doesn't need the Town Cred from the block. On July 31 2015 18:22 Breshke wrote: Also I know what you are saying that a cop never admits who they are going to check. Right, of course they don't. Why are you wasting time talking about something that everyone should know is common sense? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:25 Breshke wrote: Can you answer this. If one of Sulf or NM flips town who is mafia? blah blah blah Shouldn't you be voting for someone? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:32 Rels wrote: Yes but only me would realistically check you. And the 10% chances of bad result is 10% of losing the game right there. If think if you were mafia you would take the 100% bad situation over 10% game lost. I love how you just keep saying things that you can't actually believe, inside your own mind. And no, I don't think the Mafia team loses once 2/3 of its members are lynched. I think it needs to be all of them. And even if getting caught DID mean losing the game, I would HAVE to take that 10% chance over the 100% chance, when my team would already be in a hole because of the Day 1 lynch. On July 31 2015 18:32 Rels wrote: So stop shitting up the thread with this and answer my fucking request. No ruXxar Jr. It isn't time for that yet. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:35 Rels wrote: Seriously noobking I hate how you play. Each time you come you shit up the thread with useless posts. If you're mafia OK it's a valid technique; but I'm starting to think your town, and you gotta stop that. I'll promise you something, Rels. I promise you don't hate the way I play as much as I hate the way you play. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 30 2015 09:18 n00bKing wrote: To-Do List for Day 3: 1) Post Town Case on n00bKing. 2) Post analysis of Breshke's filter/vote history. 3) Post analysis of NocturneMage's filter/vote history. In the same manner that I already posted my complete analysis of Sulfurus a few pages back. One down, two to go. Closing in on 4am here. G'nite folks! | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Completing 2 and 3 on my To-Do list would be ridiculously difficult without filters. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 23:29 ruXxar wrote: If n00bking really thought you are scum, and he now votes for NM, then it means that he thinks you as scum bussed your scum partner nocturne immediately when you entered the game. "Why do you never think before posting?" I haven't tried to scumread Rels at all since the roleblock went uncountered. And ever since he announced the roleblock, I said that I expected it WOULD go uncountered, because I couldn't think of a reason for him to fakeclaim the roleblock if anyone else had been roleblocked instead. The only way he can fakeclaim the roleblock is if no one was roleblocked, and that makes very little sense in a setup that has a Veteran in it. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
I don't know how much that costs. But whatever it is, it's a lot more than the amount I care about this game. A lot of Breshke's posts tended to be made in "batches" so I'll see if I can find a couple of those batches and still do an analysis on him. Mage's posts were also sometimes in batches, but not as much as Breshke's were. Still, finding a couple of his batches could help me too. I did read the filter for each of those players before the filters went down, so I knew what my opinions were of the posts. I just need the posts to remind me of which ones made an impression, and so that I can make quotes from them. | ||
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