On July 07 2015 23:46 Damdred wrote: Good morning guys, i've caught up to the thread and would like to push you all to kill clarity today.
I'm not going to bother posting tons of quotes so you should fact check yourself after you get done reading.
The first thing of note to look at when it comes to clarity is his weird way of reading HF at the start of the game. Something that is really Non alignment indicative gets him to totally town read HF and say that in no way would he lynch HF today and he would totally fight against his lynch today. To me this is extremely odd, openings are usually not really that important and when informed that HF is the best (arguably) scum player on this site, the stance never changed and no fear is shown at all towards HF.
The next thing that really bugs me about Clarity is lack of follow up and ignoring of questions. I think that is extremely scummy behavior, if you look in his filter you will see that multiple times I asked him questions about the town read he gave HF, any more reads and his reasoning behind voteing wave and open ended questions. He ignores them until I continue to push them down his throat. He has no real follow up which I think is damning.
The weird vote and unvote has been talked about a bit by Marv as being really strange. Wave really really hasn't done jack all this game so not sure why he would unvote as it feels sorta like hes just going with thread sentiment to an extent and going where its safe. HF pushes wave goes to wave, thread goes against ritoky jumps to ritoky. Now is trying to get marv to tell him where to go. And has no real reads at this point.
TLDR Has no fear of people he says are town, ie HF after one post Lacks follow through on some posts/questions Lacks scum reads Follows thread sentiment and jumps to another when its available instead of pushing what he thinks.
This guy is scum vot ehim.
you know the third reason marv has already said was incorrect. clarity seemed to put thought into his wave read imo.
there's like 3 people who have jumped onto this clarity thing, you, HtS and Boxer. Boxer already had clarity as scum so that's ok but you and Hts trying to get onto a case that wasn't even correct is scummy imo.
I don't think the point is invalid about the unvote imo or invalidates the point I tried to make. Thread sentiment went against wave to an extent hf pushed it, clary jumped on. Opportunity to jump off clar jumps off, i think misrepresenting my case into one point is dumb, like you don't even interact with the other points of it just that its scummy because marv was wrong about one of the points i talked about.
On July 07 2015 22:58 Holyflare wrote: but in general I'd say it's a lot of responding to points about things and not really having the motivation to do it any further. It's like giving the answers about what people normally do and making no conclusions. The one person she did it on was Milo and that looked a bit meh to me.
Distinctly false. I pushed ritoky as well, and I still think he's scum now. This is part of what I mean about selective reasoning. Also the point on BM, he didn't do jack all in Himalayas, but in this game, he posted the wanderer claim and then AFKed. That's the difference here. I was willing to believe it when he first posted but I also had an expectation there'd be more from him.
I don't even know what disingenuous even means but there's a difference here that is worthy being pointed out - if he is going to claim a town role, does he have the behaviour to back it up or is he just skating by? Marv is saying (from prior knowledge) it's possible. So calling that read poor is also pretty selective reasoning on HF's end. If he had posted nothing at all then HF might have a valid point against me.
Obviously BM runs the risk of being modkilled but seeing this I needed to respond. That also said, I do agree that a BM lynch, if town, will also gain no information.
Yes, none of those pushes were distinctly inspiring and you say things that you think several times (in regards to me specifically) that you never have any intention of ever following up on so in all honestly it looks like you're adding fuel to the fire whenever someone mentions my name just for the sake of doing it. It also doesn't align with what's been happening in the thread at all. As for BM:
On July 07 2015 23:06 Holyflare wrote: but yeh hts' read is still super disingenuous after himalayas where bm just didn't play and was town
On July 07 2015 23:04 Harkon wrote:
On July 07 2015 23:04 Holyflare wrote: towny attitude with scummy posts and thought processes which is pretty similar to carnival so maybe mafia but also maybe not :D
Towny attitude means...?
annoyance at being marginalised and wanting to be heard, which is also just a trait of being stubborn and having an ego which is why combined with her actual content and posts might be mafia
but also might be not
BM posted shit all in himalayas and was town, BM has posted shit all in this game and has a claim and could be town. I'm not going to say someone is burnt out mafia when their meta is to sometimes not play as town compared to Trfel whose meta is post logical thoughts a lot of the time.
On July 08 2015 00:13 KelsierSC wrote: there's like 3 people who have jumped onto this clarity thing, you, HtS and Boxer. Boxer already had clarity as scum so that's ok but you and Hts trying to get onto a case that wasn't even correct is scummy imo.
Read the top of page 98. I backed off once he stated it was correct. That was some confusion on my end. Although Palmar is saying otherwise, still I had him on my list of people to review.
Also HF, re the point on milo being meh, I'm still waiting for the latest round of his answers to my questions whcih he'd say he'd provide.
That's exactly it. Your push is "meh" you don't need his answers. He's posted like a million things after that and I just asked for people's opinions on milo's responses to Trfel's case (which happened a long time ago) and you have no response to that either. Like your scum read is making a case and your other scum read is responding to it and you just make a list with both of us in it and don't even look at what the people are saying.
It's so... meh and you aren't a meh player that doesn't follow up on her reads properly. There's no instinctive drive to solve out that player. You are saying things just to say things.
guess i'll look at vivax, he seemed annoying which is a towny thing from what i remember but his content was shit which is also a towny thing hehehehehehehehe
HF, I am bad reading HF D1. and I cannot tell whether his read on Trfel is bad (unfamiliarity) or mafia (taking advantage of the fact that Trfel is not posting reads quite yet, at least I know why). I will need to re-read this filter again.
HF is scumreading Trfel for posting little of substance. I know others had different reads (most notably Ras) on Trfel.
I'm personally reading Trfel as NAI until he posts harder analysis based on Trfel's performance from NSM11.
I know he had long gaps in posting in both NSM7 (or was it 9? one of them) and IIRC he was pretty underwhelming as town in Assassination, the latter being a large game, Taking HF's argument, the longer he goes without posting anything of substance, the worse he looks.
On July 07 2015 01:35 Half the Sky wrote: For HF - to clarify, when she is mafia, those are the reactions you get when she's pushed, period.
I'm getting that air of selective reasoning HF, and I don't particularly like it.
On July 07 2015 18:09 boxerfred wrote: Also I might refrain from my HF scum lean, the read change from Trfel that he observed was really good. Still need to catch up.
I thought it was good when I first saw his post too. But HF is really good at taking things out of context if/when he's scum. Even if he's town the post is flawed because LS' filter showed some reasonable basis for the change.
The easiest way to cross check that is to look at LightningStrike's filter against the time stamps provided. It is a little annoying to do because the time stamps are in Korean time but once I did I found three quotes that I objectively found scummy in his filter before Trfel even explained it. (You hit the quote button and you'll find time stamp quoted in KST.)
^ like this is by far the worst post hts could have made: "I liked the post too but it's totally out of context! I found these 3 quotes objectively scummy!" that was nothing to do with my case at all, trfel didn't use any of those quotes to scum read lightningstrike and after reading his filter previously actually didn't scum read lightningstrike at all
I mean, hts' stances on me have been:
misreading the thread and picking out the wrong bits of every argument saying oh i missed it hf is towny seeing rsoultin shit fighting with me in the most obvious way possible and saying i look bad for wanting answers lol saying i look scummy for selective reasoning on trfel despite it not addressing trfel's post at all??
On July 07 2015 19:39 boxerfred wrote: marv thoughts on my hf read?
The other thing on HF is that he was all over Trfel thinking he's rolled scum because of rolling scum twice in a row. The same thing applies to BM who rolled scum in WC3. Marv is saying that BM's play is plausible if he were mafia. If HF flips scum he hasn't mentioned him at all from what I recall so that makes that possibility much more likely.
Pre associative I know but something to think about.
hts even just hosted himalayas where BM was town and didn't post a single thing the entire game, it's ridiculous that she thinks i would say anything this game about BM in the same way as trfel
A few of us have opposing opinions on HF and a couple voiced some dissenting opinions on Damdred - for example Vivax felt that his posts were loaded or baitworthy, like he was trying to reach for an excuse to scumread LS. Do you agree with this assessment (same question also at KSC when he returns btw), I had previously quoted it.
HF, I felt there is some selective reasoning. You probably want to look at the exchanges about 8-9 hours ago to get a sense of what was happening. (Admittedly he's probably not getting lynched today, but it's something that I think everyone needs to think about going on to later days.)
like what, hts can do selective reasoning and it's a mistake but that one time I apparently did it (I didn't even do it) then I'm instantly in a scum list. It's a very weird thought process that I can't quite piece together and combined with her lack of pushing in any particular direction but instead just responding to things I think she's quite scummy.
all to do with me! :D
but in general I'd say it's a lot of responding to points about things and not really having the motivation to do it any further. It's like giving the answers about what people normally do and making no conclusions. The one person she did it on was Milo and that looked a bit meh to me.
On June 16 2015 09:12 wherebugsgo wrote: if you guys want more detailed analysis from me, let me know.
I don't particularly have much to say about the game as I think it was relatively simple. There is a lot to be learned in hindsight, and I think reading Half the Sky's and prplhz's posts from their perspectives can be useful if you want to learn a bit about how scum may want to play. Given that they were never under any serious threat I don't think it would be all that useful, but I do think that Half the Sky's posts from start to finish and prplhz's posts on day 1 are good examples of what to do to stay just under suspicion without attracting much attention or scrutiny.
I know JAT spotted a weakness in my posts which I did catch on to and I knew I'd have to step it up in 3-2 lylo otherwise a good town player could corner me. But if you had any additional input for me I'd appreciate it.
Only issue is that I know dick all how to play framer, not much better at blue sniping either, I assume you just frame the scummy lurkers just like a DT should check the scummy lurkers but of course everyone checks differently.... >_<
I had zero clue JAT was tracker. Ugh, fail.
Generally the ideal strategy as mafia is to shoot the towniest people instead of trying to look for the blues or what have you since those shots could always backfire a la XXX mafia and shooting Rsoultin. Although this did cause mass hysteria it also severely would put you behind in terms of mislynches (which is the primary capital for mafia) if you are wrong. The whole aspect of mafia is preserving your capital so that you have wiggle room as the game progresses. This was fairly easy in this game and in retrospect I did notice a lack of push in a direction from you. There were lots of observations which made me gloss over you which is a good thing for you, however, in a game where people look more towny I think you need to develop on a set of mafia reads and start to push them harder so as you don't look too passive.
You did have a set of mafia reads this game, I know, it's just in future that will come back to bite you if you are not more resolute on them.
As for playing framer, it really depends on what kind of situation you are in. If you are widely town read then it always helps to frame scummy lurkers since they are by far and large the most obvious checks for a cop to make. If you are only slightly town read then it is up to you and you should maybe play it safe. Playing it safe is generally better anyway.
On July 07 2015 22:58 Holyflare wrote: but in general I'd say it's a lot of responding to points about things and not really having the motivation to do it any further. It's like giving the answers about what people normally do and making no conclusions. The one person she did it on was Milo and that looked a bit meh to me.
Distinctly false. I pushed ritoky as well, and I still think he's scum now. This is part of what I mean about selective reasoning. Also the point on BM, he didn't do jack all in Himalayas, but in this game, he posted the wanderer claim and then AFKed. That's the difference here. I was willing to believe it when he first posted but I also had an expectation there'd be more from him.
I don't even know what disingenuous even means but there's a difference here that is worthy being pointed out - if he is going to claim a town role, does he have the behaviour to back it up or is he just skating by? Marv is saying (from prior knowledge) it's possible. So calling that read poor is also pretty selective reasoning on HF's end. If he had posted nothing at all then HF might have a valid point against me.
Obviously BM runs the risk of being modkilled but seeing this I needed to respond. That also said, I do agree that a BM lynch, if town, will also gain no information.
Yes, none of those pushes were distinctly inspiring and you say things that you think several times (in regards to me specifically) that you never have any intention of ever following up on so in all honestly it looks like you're adding fuel to the fire whenever someone mentions my name just for the sake of doing it. It also doesn't align with what's been happening in the thread at all. As for BM:
On July 07 2015 23:05 Holyflare wrote: oh right yeh bm posted
On July 07 2015 23:06 Holyflare wrote: but yeh hts' read is still super disingenuous after himalayas where bm just didn't play and was town
On July 07 2015 23:04 Harkon wrote:
On July 07 2015 23:04 Holyflare wrote: towny attitude with scummy posts and thought processes which is pretty similar to carnival so maybe mafia but also maybe not :D
Towny attitude means...?
annoyance at being marginalised and wanting to be heard, which is also just a trait of being stubborn and having an ego which is why combined with her actual content and posts might be mafia
but also might be not
BM posted shit all in himalayas and was town, BM has posted shit all in this game and has a claim and could be town. I'm not going to say someone is burnt out mafia when their meta is to sometimes not play as town compared to Trfel whose meta is post logical thoughts a lot of the time.
On July 08 2015 00:13 KelsierSC wrote: there's like 3 people who have jumped onto this clarity thing, you, HtS and Boxer. Boxer already had clarity as scum so that's ok but you and Hts trying to get onto a case that wasn't even correct is scummy imo.
Read the top of page 98. I backed off once he stated it was correct. That was some confusion on my end. Although Palmar is saying otherwise, still I had him on my list of people to review.
Also HF, re the point on milo being meh, I'm still waiting for the latest round of his answers to my questions whcih he'd say he'd provide.
That's exactly it. Your push is "meh" you don't need his answers. He's posted like a million things after that and I just asked for people's opinions on milo's responses to Trfel's case (which happened a long time ago) and you have no response to that either. Like your scum read is making a case and your other scum read is responding to it and you just make a list with both of us in it and don't even look at what the people are saying.
It's so... meh and you aren't a meh player that doesn't follow up on her reads properly. There's no instinctive drive to solve out that player. You are saying things just to say things.
I think i'm on to something tbh
On July 08 2015 00:45 Holyflare wrote: someone acknowledge me
On July 08 2015 00:53 geript wrote: The more a Damdred posts, the more I yearn to lynch him. I'm really surprised by his desire to lynch Wave. Not because I have a townread on wave but more because he's definitely not the target Damdred would usually choose here. I don't recognize any of Damdred's thought process at all this game and as town I've been able to spot his quite early. Like I know you guys don't buy my magical reads. But they work. And Damdred isn't town.
I, too, share the sentiment that Damdred is not towny. Whether he is mafia though is a different story.
On July 08 2015 01:05 Damdred wrote: I'm done really really tired of being scum read for whatever I do whenever I'm in any games, hunt town and find scum through pie in scum for doing that. Just looking for scummy behavior and caseing it and I'm scum for that.
la te da, fuck that shit I'm getting me Chinese playing final fantasy and I'll be back near deadline fuck it
you realise last game you were solely called mafia because you were afk for the entire game and the person calling you mafia was me lol?
On July 08 2015 01:05 Damdred wrote: I'm done really really tired of being scum read for whatever I do whenever I'm in any games, hunt town and find scum through pie in scum for doing that. Just looking for scummy behavior and caseing it and I'm scum for that.
la te da, fuck that shit I'm getting me Chinese playing final fantasy and I'll be back near deadline fuck it
you realise last game you were solely called mafia because you were afk for the entire game and the person calling you mafia was me lol?
I mean, I liked clarity's response to your case and I disliked a bit of your case. That's all there is to it. What was wrong with poeing people down? I wanna know what you're thinking dude.
On July 08 2015 01:23 marvellosity wrote: just to repeat my earlier request: if anyone can point to posts from ritoky that give you pause to think he might be town, please speak now
the last 5 posts of page 2 of his filter and all page 3 of his filter
On July 08 2015 01:23 marvellosity wrote: just to repeat my earlier request: if anyone can point to posts from ritoky that give you pause to think he might be town, please speak now
the last 5 posts of page 2 of his filter and all page 3 of his filter
what about them?
Seemed like good questions to ask and a drive to find more. It's weak sure but it makes me hesitate.
I think I do want to remove scott too maybe... his list post just made me feel good
bolded i would lynch today probably and the rest is because i'm being super lazy and just not reading to get a better idea of
On mobile atm but I have two questions for you:
I'm reading your filter, you've been pushing Trfel for 11/13 pages of your filter. Then I see a "maybe/maybe not" as your last comment so how did that Trfel read just disappear?
Second, milo and ritoky are my top two scum reads. I've been abundantly clear where I stood on both all game. You mean to say that if we are on a scum team together that I'd be bussing two of my teammates?
Or put it another way, if you are pushing my lynch you would be voting with me (a scum read) on either milo or ritoky.
Does not compute.
I've made it clear his post defending himself wasn't that bad. I also don't care who you are pushing. Like i said anyway your milo push isn't a push. It's uneventful, uninspired and not driven.
I think I do want to remove scott too maybe... his list post just made me feel good
bolded i would lynch today probably and the rest is because i'm being super lazy and just not reading to get a better idea of
On mobile atm but I have two questions for you:
I'm reading your filter, you've been pushing Trfel for 11/13 pages of your filter. Then I see a "maybe/maybe not" as your last comment so how did that Trfel read just disappear?
Second, milo and ritoky are my top two scum reads. I've been abundantly clear where I stood on both all game. You mean to say that if we are on a scum team together that I'd be bussing two of my teammates?
Or put it another way, if you are pushing my lynch you would be voting with me (a scum read) on either milo or ritoky.
Does not compute.
I've made it clear his post defending himself wasn't that bad. I also don't care who you are pushing. Like i said anyway your milo push isn't a push. It's uneventful, uninspired and not driven.
I mean you accuse me of taking things out of context and not reading into stuff and selective reasoning but then you couldn't even understand why i was pushing trfel at the start of the game, you just quoted a milo post and didn't even know the context of it and were completely wrong about what he was writing.
At what point does your selective reasoning and out of context posts mean anything?
On July 08 2015 00:01 ruXxar wrote: @oats: You're really tryharding for day 1, what's gotten into you? You're actually trying to take charge, ask questions, push the thread and figure out stuff, pretty much unlike you. I'm feeling your presence too strongly.
---
I've noticed that both Oats and Vivax have been tunneling hard on geript pretty much all day. There's something about it that rubs me the wrong way. I don't like how vivax came in and his first big post was just an opportunistic jump on trying to discredit geript.
#scumlean on vivax and oats.
Sorry for playing the game?
Why exactly is tunneling geript wrong? you have a townread on him?
I don't like you tunneling geript for 2 reasons:
- You're trying several times to call him mafia for scumslipping. - You voted on him saying you're "tired of this shit", when geript actually made a decent post about you instead of refuting it.
I also disagree with this post from you:
On July 07 2015 19:45 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv read the rest. I'm not kidding. We just played in a game, newbie something. Geript got lynched day 1, I was universally town read d1. So for Geript to say that I get scumread as town is inaccurate and he should know.
You got scum-read pretty hard that game. It's very selective to just look at day 1. And the reason you didn't get scumread as much early was because we had stronger scumreads, not because you were a town hero making solid cases. There's a difference between not getting lynched because there are better lynch targets, and getting universally town read.
On July 07 2015 00:03 geript wrote: Ten pages and more people dumbly think oats is town. Fun.
Do the words "investigator" mean anything to you?
First off, that's one word dumbass. Second the word investigator means nothing to me. It shouldn't to anyone. It's fucking stupid. Roles are listed in the op.
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
On July 07 2015 00:03 geript wrote: Ten pages and more people dumbly think oats is town. Fun.
Do the words "investigator" mean anything to you?
First off, that's one word dumbass. Second the word investigator means nothing to me. It shouldn't to anyone. It's fucking stupid. Roles are listed in the op.
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
scumslip x2
Bullshit. Scum are the least likely to slip anything zzz.
Look, just cause geript spouted some shit last game, doesnt mean he didnt slip this game. Regardless, he is scum outside of that
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
scumslip x2
Bullshit. Scum are the least likely to slip anything zzz.
Look, just cause geript spouted some shit last game, doesnt mean he didnt slip this game. Regardless, he is scum outside of that
Awe.... That's cute. You still believe in scumslips. This is what you're second or third game. Don't worry. You'll grow up at some point.
Im sure you have never ever slipped as mafia.
I do it like once a game but no one ever notices.
yeah that was one time. It was one complete conversation.
Is this really the only thing you got outta the reply? Ok then.
Marv, whatever I cant read xxx.
It's not the fact that it's one conversation, but the fact that you later(which you can see by the timestamp in the third quote), went back and emphasized the fact that he scum slipped as if that somehow lends credence to your argument.
yeah so it was twice, once when i mentioned the 2 part scumslip, then the next time when I reminded people.
Whats your problem? Dont you think its a scumslip?
I can think of other reasons.... I wouldn't take that risk day 1.
On July 08 2015 00:50 ruXxar wrote: [quote] I don't like you tunneling geript for 2 reasons:
- You're trying several times to call him mafia for scumslipping. - You voted on him saying you're "tired of this shit", when geript actually made a decent post about you instead of refuting it.
I also disagree with this post from you:
[quote]
You got scum-read pretty hard that game. It's very selective to just look at day 1. And the reason you didn't get scumread as much early was because we had stronger scumreads, not because you were a town hero making solid cases. There's a difference between not getting lynched because there are better lynch targets, and getting universally town read.
On July 07 2015 00:03 geript wrote: Ten pages and more people dumbly think oats is town. Fun.
Do the words "investigator" mean anything to you?
First off, that's one word dumbass. Second the word investigator means nothing to me. It shouldn't to anyone. It's fucking stupid. Roles are listed in the op.
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
On July 07 2015 00:03 geript wrote: Ten pages and more people dumbly think oats is town. Fun.
Do the words "investigator" mean anything to you?
First off, that's one word dumbass. Second the word investigator means nothing to me. It shouldn't to anyone. It's fucking stupid. Roles are listed in the op.
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
scumslip x2
Bullshit. Scum are the least likely to slip anything zzz.
Look, just cause geript spouted some shit last game, doesnt mean he didnt slip this game. Regardless, he is scum outside of that
On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote: I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.
scumslip x2
Bullshit. Scum are the least likely to slip anything zzz.
Look, just cause geript spouted some shit last game, doesnt mean he didnt slip this game. Regardless, he is scum outside of that
Awe.... That's cute. You still believe in scumslips. This is what you're second or third game. Don't worry. You'll grow up at some point.
Im sure you have never ever slipped as mafia.
I do it like once a game but no one ever notices.
yeah that was one time. It was one complete conversation.
Is this really the only thing you got outta the reply? Ok then.
Marv, whatever I cant read xxx.
It's not the fact that it's one conversation, but the fact that you later(which you can see by the timestamp in the third quote), went back and emphasized the fact that he scum slipped as if that somehow lends credence to your argument.
yeah so it was twice, once when i mentioned the 2 part scumslip, then the next time when I reminded people.
Whats your problem? Dont you think its a scumslip?
I can think of other reasons.... I wouldn't take that risk day 1.
WHAT RISK IS THERE? HOW IS THAT NOT A SCUMSLIP.
Wave, how is that being a dick?
Explain how it is a scum slip
There are like 15 investigators in the game. Everyone vt is an investigator.
Clearly geript didnt get the same role pm as us because he assumes there are 2, like im saying investigator instead of cop. He isnt blue either because he would be a lot more careful about doing shit relating to roles.
EPT
