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Breshke - So his first substantive post is here, and it makes absolutely no sense to me. What LS wrote is about as NAI as I've seen in mafia. Saying you've rolled town is what everyone would say, if asked. Saying it unprompted doesn't mean anything - some people who prefer town might want to revel in it, whereas scum might use it as a tool to start subconsciously planting the idea that they're town. Basically the post gives me no "townie feelings" whatsoever, and I'm not sure why Breshke would say it did. He then gives a soft-town meta read on LS, (which we should think about for later, because it could be a deflect).
I really hate this. He starts off by saying something pretty nasty about WBG (that he is self-important), and he says it in a snide offhand way. Moreover, the whole post just seems to amble around in search of a point, without ever finding one, and concluding that he does not have a read.
His final set of posts are all just asking questions of people. I don't think this is necessarily bad play (and I guess I'm not one to talk about bad play ^^), but it feels kind of lazy - particularly because people in the thread haven't been very good at actually answering questions. It's sort of a good way to look like you're town, without actually saying anything, IN PARTICULAR because he never then follows up on any of his questions with follow-ups. It looks like pure filter-filler to me.
I do agree with him that the rso/WBG fight was tedious as fuck.
All his three "would lynch" candidates were mostly AFK, so they were pretty non-controversial. That's not really AI though, because I kinda agree that town is better off lynching lurkers who don't contribute, rather than someone who some people read as scum but who is posting consistently.
His final two posts show a little more leg, but feel a bit light. Ritoky was right, I think, his reasons for his rsoult/WBG read was really lacking. However, I also agree with Ritoky that his response was honest, if not very impressive. If he was mafia, I would have expected him to protest a little more. Then again, if he felt he was caught in a trap, he might have recognised the best thing to do was move on.
Finally, I should say that I HATE posts that are just "I don't like this". Scott did it all last game and he was town, but TT also did it and he was mafia. So it's not AI, but at the same time it's just annoying and it clutters up the thread. Say why you don't like something, or don't say anything at all.
After all that, I give him a null read. Maybe on the slight scum side, only because he has been so reactive.
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Morning Rit - I'm just walking to work. That makes a lot of sense (and I didn't spot it ... Ugh). I'll take another peek at Mig's filter when I'm on the train and will report back.
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So the reason why I missed it, I think, was that it didn't necessarily feel to me like he was actually walking back his position on LS. Instead it seemed to me as though he was commenting offhand on new developments on someone he plainly had an interest in already. But when combined with his relatively short posting history and the lack of people he has actually given reads on, agreed it is suspicious. I'd rather trust your intuition on this tbh.
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@Breshke did you see my post on you? I'd be keen to get your thoughts on what I said..
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@Breshke - thanks, you're right - I had missed that.
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Them feels, WBG.
FWIW, I've decided to stick my vote on boxerfred. As I said before, I haven't really been impressed with his contributions at all. On top of that, since his filter is yet to make it to 2 pages, I feel he fits neatly into my Onegu-in-HG-inspired policy of LYNCH ALL LURKERS.
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Like, how is telling someone to commit suicide in any way "funny". If you think it is funny, you've got a pretty warped sense of humour.
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@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town.
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TL;DR Will someone please start traffic-copping this thread *pretty please*
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On June 19 2015 05:25 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. Lynching lurkers Day 1 isn't optimal play when you can lynch scum imo.
... I mean, that's obviously true (to the extent that it's basically a truism). My point is that I don't think we have a very good chance of catching a scum today. This thread has been a dumpster, where most people who aren't involved in the OMGUS/tit-for-tat are probably just finding their strongest town read (for me it's Rsoult btw) and sheeping them. But at least if we lynch a lurker, we guarantee that we make it harder for mafia to keep lurking and blending in.
I recognise that there's sort of a logical tension here - I'm saying that we should lynch lurkers, but I'm also saying that all this volume of posting is also seriously town-detrimental. I guess I'm just an optimist, as I think people will eventually run out of steam soon and then we can start having some actually quasi-serious discussions.
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On June 19 2015 05:26 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there? Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch? Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one.
That's a fair point, but let me put it to you like this. I work 12 hour days a lot of the time. Sure, I can mostly keep up with the thread. But when it's back and forth nonstop, mostly with partially thought through arguments, BM, off-topic chitchat and otherwise, how are people like me supposed to get an edge in. I made four substantive posts last night on four different people and I don't think I got a single comment on them, really, except one from Brez. When I look at your back and forth with GB, I feel like I basically have to go back to the start of the game to understand where it truly came from, which is 90 pages worth of mostly trash.
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Well, I suppose I didn't mean that it wasn't serious, just that it isn't helpful. People need time in this game to re-read and re-consider posts, and to think about what people have said. I don't think that's what we have at the moment. No doubt somewhere in these pages there are some mafia slips, but we're likely going to miss them in the sheer volume.
That said, I'll go back and look over the GB debate again, since I should probably develop an opinion on it if it's all we're going to fight about for the next week ^^. I don't suppose I could be super lazy and ask you to give me a useful starting point (preferably one not before page 70, lol).
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@Rsoult great minds think alike :-)
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(Final post on this ... WBG I think you might actually have changed my mind on the principle of the thing. I was too tunnelled on LYNCH ALL LURKERS, when I should have been thinking LYNCH ALL THE ANTI-TOWN POSTERS. Not as catchy, but probably more accurate. I totally accept it's possible that bf might be discouraged town. However, my read on him is more based on the things he did say, rather than his promises of returning. So I'm going to keep on him for now. But hopefully after all this you get a slightly better idea of where I'm coming from.)
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People, I want to talk about VayneAuthority.
That last post really felt off to me. I've been the first one to complain about the tone of the game, but when I did it I was trying to be constructive ("stop posting so much, please, give me a chance to catch up!"). But what VA is doing in that last post is trying to drain the will of the town to keep playing. Four or five people (including ritoky, who I'm going to keep town reading up until he inevitably flips mafia, knowing my luck) have already said they're burned. Why would anyone who was town pile on?
So that took me on to the filter dive. I have nothing to report. There's two pages, and literally not a single substantive post or comment. Nothing, in an entire two full calendar days (and one mafia 'day'). It's all pictures, one-line questions and general filler. No apparent attempt to understand the game, even on a bitesize level.
I'm reading VA hard scum for this.
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PS I'm not really sure what claiming someone as 'hard' scum means, but I heard someone else use the phrase and I like it. I presume it means that they're at the scum end of my scum spectrum? That's how I'm using it anyway ^^
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@Nydus I started reading GB's filter, but I got bored. Nothing in there was particularly impressive, but nothing really stood out to me either. Plus I'm sheeping Rsoult's reads at the moment because she was so nice about me(<3), and I think she has him as a town.
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WOWWW that last post of mine was crap. I should probably persevere and actually try and finish the filter dive. BRB.
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WBG, I'm going to hit you with some LOGIC right now.
If you're town, some of the people who are disagreeing with you KNOW you're wrong/right (because they're mafia!) and therefore their responses to your thoughts may well make no sense. The people you DO want to work with you (ie the town) are probably not going to appreciate being called dullards, so you just lost influence with them.
Obviously if you're mafia then w/e.
In summary - if you're town, don't say shit like that. Otherwise, people might start thinking you're mafia.
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EPT
