EPTIf I do step in, I will do my best to not be modkilled.
[M][N] I Still Can't Believe it's not Themed Mafia
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
If I do step in, I will do my best to not be modkilled. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Don't like Mig or prplhz's entrances, and Fecalfeast tends to shitpost as both alignments so I'm going to consider his entrance NAI. Salty/JAT looking town early on. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I'm even more confident of JAT/Salty being own based on the former's pushing with his claim analysis, the latter's thought process in fakeclaiming medic and the way he's explained the reads. Salty's posting in general is just really town and a lot of the things he's saying have been well thought out. I really do not like BF's post on page 27, the one where he no-lynched, it's honestly just a huge cop-out IMO and there had been plenty of material to work with. I also agree with the points on prplhz having a weird read progression/flip on Artanis, but I also know from playing town games with him (in particular NSM7) he's not articulate/doesn't get his points across too well and I've misread him as scum either questioning his activity or reading too much into something he's said so I need to read more on him/filter dive him in detail before concluding anything. Fuba, I like his initial post on BF, but I don't understand the gut acceptance of Artanis' claim, the lack of skepticism is a scum behaviour to me - usually when I evaluate claims, I evalute the timing of the claim and the gameplay upon which it stands, so I'm really surprised this didn't give him some pause. And it was pretty early in the day I thought. marvellosity - nothing really jumped out at me as odd or scummy, his questioning of fuba based on his meta knowledge of him seems reasonable and I don't think anything was wrong with the Marv/yamato interaction. Granted I haven't had as much exp with them as apparently Mig has had but still I can definitely see Marv getting impatient with people at least for bad play, so nothing unusual really stuck out with me there. I'd have him as a town lean at the point where I stop reading. Mig - aside from the entrance I didn't like, I didn't see follow through on his initial concerns at least up to page 27. The thing that I didn't understand was he was more than willing to lynch Artanis, he apparently metaed him and whatnot. He scumreads Fecalfeast, but I don't know why there was a lack of followup on Artanis or whether he dropped Artanis together (with no discussion of the claim situation) - says 3.5h before the lynch Artanis is unlikely going to be lynched which tells me he didn't drop the read at all, and only begs the question of his d1 actions - why didn't he push him? and prioritise Fecalfeast instead? There's probably more on Mig after that but that's what jumped out at me. Also not sure what to make of at that time, a lurky Fecalfeast (though I see he's posted a bit here so I can evaluate more) and Chezinu. Chezinu didn't seem to make much of an impression at all through D1, and I've never played with Chez, does he normally lurk? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 09 2015 07:53 Chezinu wrote: ##unvote ##Vote marvellosity totally forgot about this game. Since when does Chezinu normally lurk? Half of sky knows I don't normally lurk. Last time I was town, I got busy in RL and was afk. Half of Sky asked the same question in the obv qt. The answer is quite clearly no. Chezinu loves the center of attention way too much. Here's the thing - I didn't actually play that game (Ippo) and I honestly forgot I even asked that in the obs qt for Ippo. I checked the playerlist at the time I first stopped reading and I realised you hadn't said or done much of anything so that's where that came from. Although Salty I think the marv vote is coming from marv actually saying "Chez normally lurks" as he's quoted. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I don't see a response from Marv....rough estimate here, how many games have you had with Marv? I'm guessing probably enough he should know your meta? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Fair enough, wasn't sure. I've only been active on TL since November 2014 myself. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Did check the last 3 games of his and he averages between 4-8 pages over 4-5 cycles. That's pretty low. But I also don't like how he disputes the lurky factor and then doesn't comment at all on how you didn't like the push on FF especially when you've singled that out or how you talking about that makes you mafia. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 09 2015 15:40 prplhz wrote: @Half the Sky I guess you're sort of excused since you just replaced in so I'm just going to give you some leeway. However I don't remember a single post you made so maybe you could write a memorable one about why you're lynching Chezinu? Stopped in the low 30s of the thread last night, but based on the information I had: 1 Chez hadn't done jack all through the point I stopped reading 2 When he reappeared in thread he and Marv have a dispute on lurkiness which Marv effectively disproves (and happens to be one of the main points why Chez is voting Marv) - I ask him to comment on the part where Marv says he doesn't like the push on Fecalfeast. So my expectation is that Chez either would have followed up on that comment (I specifically asked Chez why he left that part out) or continue his push on Fecalfeast or try and flesh out his alignment. He did neither from what I could tell. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 09 2015 15:57 Mig wrote: lmao chez is the best. Just going to assume chez is going to get lynched next. So besides him who is most likely to be mafia after him. So after rethinking things, I came to a realization, why the fuck are we all so sure that JTA is town? What has JTA done this entire game? He is around constantly, but how many people have you seen him push to get lynched? The only person this entire game that JTA has been 100% gunho on lynching was artanis. Which in hindsight should be throwing off some red flags. The second that NAcl claimed, JTA wanted artanis insta lynched. He is 100% sure that there is no way that the game could have a doctor and jk, why? In my mind if mafia had a rber and or vig it would be fine and totally balanced. But JTA was fucking positive this was impossible, maybe because he knows the mafia roles and knows it would be bullshit for town to have 2 protective roles. This is the same shit as yamato except hes attacking instead of defending. Conversely look at how prplhz/marv/vayne reacted, none of them were totally certain what to believe. So besides artanis who has JTA pushed? He has thrown suspicion at me/marv/ a few random other people but has he actually tried to get a single person besides artanis lynched? You sure about this? Few flaws in this argument, when I'd read both the thread and JAT's filter, JAT was on Artanis partially because of gameplay/meta. On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote: Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this: First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game: The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim? The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched). On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots. So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he? Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation? The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit. If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. The gameplay/meta what I refer to is what I've bolded in this quote - like I said when I first got in here - I weigh any claims not just by timing - which JAT already did - but also by the townplay backing it up. From early game onwards, Artanis had done not much of substance, and JAT's rationale on Artanis is presumably from experience - I have played with both players enough that they probably have had the experience to judge like that on each other. I also thought JAT moved on to Yamato after Salty explained his play and dropped the claim. Yes JAT does say there's no way there are 2 prot roles in a 13 player game, and to be honest I'm not sure if a vig in there makes it any better, most 13 player games any vig is one-shot so even after that scum vig exhausts the shot, mafia would still have to contend with 2 prot roles esp if the vig/kp misses both of them...with 1kp thereafter. Even if vig hits either prot role, the second prot role can cause mafia to miss another kp. I mean mafia could get lucky and hit both prot roles with both the default kp and the vig, but all in all that is just awfully swingy and not having a clue how WBG hosts his games, host wifom, forget it. I've never played/hosted a 13p game with two prot roles ever, so.... In any case though I don't think this makes JAT mafia. In his filter he goes on Artanis in two other separate quotes for his gameplay - he's putting emphasis on not just the claims but the gameplay after the fact as well, which you seem to ignore. Artanis was the brunt of his push D1 with yamato coming after the cc was dropped. D2 I'm still catching up on since I didn't get caught up on the second half of the thread, but I really don't think JAT is mafia based on how he pushed Artanis alone - he broke it down adequately I feel - and I don't think the role speculation esp in a closed setup (esp since closed setups make things pretty more wifom anyhow) is problematic. JAT's lack of pushes on other people (D2 maybe? can't comment since I'm not caught up) could be valid but considering he's going on BF right now, he appears to me to be at least figuring things out. But the argument for day 1 vs Artanis really doesn't stand. And I'm not sure why you ignored the gameplay angle of that either. Selective reasoning? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 09 2015 22:41 NaCl`y wrote: Chezinu is just a solid vote right now though. His continued neglect at answering Half the Sky's questions are irritating and although he does provide some amusement as long as he does not properly interact with people and play the game properly I have no qualms with voting for him. That and dropping the push against FF, and if I recall right last night FF was in thread when Chez reappeared even if briefly. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
"And I'm not sure why you (Mig) ignored the gameplay angle of that either." | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Boxerfred this is his second game. His first game, I was coaching two townies and I was able to ping his posting out as scumlike partially because of lurkiness but more tellingly because he was making soft pushes. At least on the one townie I was coaching if I remember right. I am fine with the Chez lynch, though if I think Fuba or BF prove to be even better I'll definitely pipe up. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I know from content he accepted Artanis' claim without considering anything else that bugged me. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote: Sorry, I was really out of it today. First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable. I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing. ##Vote boxerfred Gotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk. Hmmm it'd be a real stretch to consider this TMI but I don't understand this consistency he's addressing. Artanis' gameplay was questionable and it was rightfully questioned. Damn I'm just going to look at other quotes and see if something jumps out. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 08 2015 22:59 fuba wrote: I will say that the scummiest thing about vane isn't even anything he did. In yamato's last game, he opened with an instant vote for VA. Basically a policy lynch. I think he could have done the same thing this game and not looked suspicious, but he didn't. Maybe because he didn't want to bus so early? *shrugs* (At work for the next few hours) Alright Marv (from your quote on this), I am also having this same problem with this quote he says on Vayne. Vayne doesn't post much as either alignment, and even as scum he's not as tryhard as he was supposedly before (well I learnt that the hard way in Aperture 4). I also don't understand the associative read that he makes between yam and VA here. Fuba are you referring to the timing of the vote here that makes Vayne scummy? Had to read this more than a few times now. I checked the vote count and VA voted Chez so I am completely confused by this? In any case looking at the rest of the filter, I still would have expected some followup if he had a problem with Vayne. Even a one-liner for what it was worth. | ||
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