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I actually wasn't really paying attention to kickstart, which is why I mentioned to him that I went back and read his posts after he died lol.
Anyway the interesting part to me is that convincing other people as scum is fairly easy because you don't have to worry about being wrong. Well, you can worry about being wrong but worrying about being wrong will usually get you killed because you'll start to show it in your posts.
As town though you have to constantly worry if you are wrong which makes it hard to convince people to vote with you. You can't use emotional appeals because if you end up being wrong you'll look like an idiot and people will try to lynch you (and then you get further away from finding scum)
I really admire those players who can simultaneously find scum and convince townies to vote with them cause that job is so hard
thanks to BH and HtS for hosting and dealing with shenanigans
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On June 13 2015 17:15 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 17:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
yes, obviously convincing people is harder than forming the read. which is why I'm actually trying to show how it can almost never be beneficial for the TEAM for a person to smurf.
When people actually understand this they'll stop giving a fuck if smurfing has "benefits that go beyond his team's goals" which is a fancier way of saying "smurfing benefits the player themselves." That's exactly my overarching point, in like 99% of cases smurfing only benefits the individual player. Town play is entirely team-based, which is why it's almost never in town's interest to have a smurf.
e: also if you have personal interests in smurfing and you don't want to reveal you identity that's generally fine, as I mentioned in-game. Your reaction was solely based on identity though, which was very telling. Since you lacked proper reads that led me further into believing you were scum.
Again the problem was convincing other people, which is so incredibly hard. I've found it's easier to convince them emotionally which is usually why I get people to mislynch into randoms when I play scum. As town for whatever reason I find it really hard to do that because it's hard to use emotion while simultaneously having high confidence you have a scum lynch. Basically what happens is if you lynch the wrong dude you end up dying yourself because you so persuasively told everyone some poor townie was scum But here is something you're ignoring: yamato instantly townread me because he got to known I was GB and I had wrong reads. Revealing myself was better to me than to town. Your argument is too objective. You're just saying that with a smurf you have one less instrument for reading a player: meta. But meta can work for both sides, as I just said about yamato's townread on me. IMO: biggest problem of a smurf is when it lurks. And if I kept lurking, you were totally right for wanting to lynch me. But if I kept my activity high, wanting to lynch me at EOD because you didn't know my identity is silly. IMO
yes, but that's because yamato used meta incorrectly.
I don't think he bothered to do a behavioural analysis, he fell into the trap that results matter. He was like oh well GB gets reads wrong as town and since his reads all suck here he must be town which logically makes no sense at all
e: for the record by that point I had also been convinced by my self and everyone else that you were town so I wasn't really paying attention to you and I didn't even bother looking up your past games because I trusted yamato's read.
that is something I messed up and I know I won't do in the future
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btw BH are you gonna do any comments post-game?
interested in knowing what omniscient viewers thought
e: and obs I guess. I actually am curious what people think about the smurf stuff, among other things
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On June 13 2015 17:24 FreezingFoot wrote:All I'm trying to say, bugs, is that although you played very well (aside being a dick to people  ) is that I was townread by my own merits and not just because you were yelled at. Also, there was a post of yours saying something like "well, he could have gambled and tried to save his partner AND looking not-scum because scum would never be so bold" That was like... Soul reading hahahaha
yeah that was my interpretation of what scum would do (and I was still very convinced you were mafia). It would definitely have been what I would've done and in the QT I would've been yelling at my teammate to stop being useless and go do something so we don't lose a member and a KP
I think you're talking about this post
On June 10 2015 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:the other thing is that FF took a lot of attention for his antics close to lynch time and scum are generally fully aware of this. If indeed he is scum he either gambled on it saving LS and wasting the lynch, which I guess he thought was more valuable than losing a scum teammate. I would probably agree if I were in that boat and I had a scum teammate roll over and die on day 1-losing someone day 1 fucking sucks but it's actually surprisingly easy to prevent while ending up looking okay simply because most people will label you as not being scum because of how bold you need to be to do that. Since I think we should just treat FF as likely to be one of the better players in this game, even though I think his opinions all suck, we should probably take them at face value instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt. hehe 
at the time I full believed both you and BM were scum but I was starting to get convinced that maybe I was wrong about you and it was someone else. But I still did that night experiment with the read percentages cause I knew BM was scum and talking to him was gonna waste a boatload of time and I wanted more info on other people. You didn't even bother responding IIRC LOL
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well I was convinced you were town later in the game and so was yamato despite what he may be saying now :p
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On June 13 2015 17:41 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 17:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
well I was convinced you were town later in the game and so was yamato despite what he may be saying now :p In a strict sense, he was like third on the list out of the 4 non-confirmed voters behind Shockey and Onegu. We confirm one of those two that night, and then lynch the other one. Then it's FF/Breshke and we use voting to determine which. It didn't really matter, lol.
yeah, I agree haha
it would've been enough WTF for me to wonder whether the votes got fucked up (which they did, but it didn't end up hurting us)
we actually also may have confirmed both simultaneously with RB/check and skipped straight to lynching him
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I think there's too much KP involved in this setup.
It would be better as a 16 player setup with 4 scum.
I think even better would be to give mafia two players that can vote for blues, and remove all KP roles. That way scum can influence the votes themselves and be elected even with scum votes just like in games where you can have a scum mayor.
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EPT
