Ah, I forgot I was previously on VE's list.

I just re-read Damdred's filter, and it's honestly just a mess. Strategically, I hate it. He pussy-foots around, alluding to reads and making hyperbolic comments. His read on KS was totally wrong, obviously. He was apparently less sure on GGT, but still voted for him over TT. But as I'm reading his posts, I keep getting this annoying feeling that he's actually being genuine. His posts seem like honest reactions to events, even if he could really use to get his anger/emotions under control.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 22:00 GMT

#1528

One crazy thought I just had is that the scum team is VE, Damdred and Chocolate, and VE and Damdred have been trying to bus Chocolate all game, but the town keep screwing it up and voting for townies.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 22:04 GMT

#1529

Look again through the first two pages of your filter. You basically do not give anything concrete apart from two wishy-washy town reads. At some point someone says "stop being middle of the road", and you protest that you weren't, even though you were.

The thing is though, I'm not entirely sure it's a bad thing. Hell, I have literally no clue what's going on. If I'm coming across middle of the road, it's because this is a genuinely creepy experience. I'm just staring at the list of names, hoping that some will jump out at me, but they aren't.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 22:16 GMT

#1532

Here's my problem with your reads. You are basically 100% sure that everyone is town except me, milo, NHM and Chocolate. You even think Onegu is town, even though at this point I think he is honestly playing a game of "I wonder how bloody stupid I can be in a game of mafia as mafia and not get lynched."

I obviously know I'm town. Ritoky believed milo was town too, and actually so did you during the early part of the game. Even if you're right on NHM and Chocolate, that still only leaves two. You don't seem to have accounted for the possibility that someone is playing a great game here. I don't think that if you, TT, VE, ritoky, scott and Onegu were all town, you'd be losing to a team of me (first game), Chocolate (18 y/o who has been barely active), NHM (who has been quasi-lurky) and/or milo (who mostly everyone has or had as town). I recognise I'm utterly rubbish at this game (or I'm brilliant and TT/Scott are evil geniuses), but if all those good players were lined up against all us terrible players, I don't see how that ends up at this point.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 22:32 GMT

#1536

I'm not saying don't lynch anyone. I'm just thinking out loud and hoping something triggered with you.

I've already said the reasons why I'm suspicious of TT and scott. I think that an Onegu, TT, scott lineup would look pretty reasonable. The only reason I mention scott and Onegu together is that it seems to me the only reason we haven't lynched Onegu is that scott mentioned that this is Onegu's "town" meta. Which is a bullshit reason, because a player as experienced as I assume Onegu is (given he is running his own game) would be perfectly capable of acting in the way he has, town or scum. Hell, it's hardly challenging to troll for an entire day, then to show up and say we should vote for Damdred because of some stupid meta rule which sounds to me like it worked one time.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 22:43 GMT

#1538

Damdred - I think you and scott have both said that if TT is playing mafia, you're happy to give him the game because he's upped it so much. That kinda resonates with me, because I was thinking exactly the same thing. He's like this giant ball of Teflon that nothing sticks to, except that all the people who are scum-reading him end up lynched.

I also don't know whether to read anything into the fact that after both mis-lynches, TT has come out and said "well, I guess they were just bad town". I've never been mafia, so I don't know what that's like, but as town mislynching feels like the worst shit in the world.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:04 GMT

#1540

Where did I say I wanted to lynch you? I can't read you well, and I'd probably vote for you over milo, but at the moment I'm questioning everything. But yes, if I had to give a list, it would be:

Town: milo
Null: Chocolate, NHM, VE, Damdred
Mafia: Scott, TT
Policy: Onegu

I recognise that's very "middle of the road" of me, I'm just struggling.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:06 GMT

#1542

It's a fair point against GGT though- he was being ridiculously defensive. And If KS had claimed a couple of minutes earlier I would have caught his post and switched my vote. But still. It seems harsh to speak ill of the dead.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:13 GMT

#1544

My reasons haven't really changed from since before the EOD2 vote. Also I really hated Scott's reaction to my big WOT post. As far as I can remember, he hasn't been pressured at all this game. Nobody has really read him strongly as anything. He hasn't had to defend himself or explain himself. But after I posted, he posted like four times, seeming extremely riled up. But it seemed false.

And the more I read Scott and TT's interactions, the more they just seem like they're on the same page. Their thoughts seem to overlap, they never really give reads on each other, but rather just either make little comments back and forth. As I said, it reminds me of a man talking to a sock puppet. I'm actually going to try and get some sleep now, but if I can persuade myself to get out of bed, I'll go find some examples for you.

Finally, I'm shamelessly sheeping ritoky. Ritoky said two or three times that he wasn't sure TT was even reading the same thread as him. I'm not an experienced player, at all, but Rit was and given that I'm all out at sea, the one thing I feel safe clinging too is that he strongly read TT as Mafia. GGT did as well, but I'm honestly not sure I thought his reasons were any good.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:19 GMT

#1545

I should also mention that Scott has been OMGUSing me. I can see why it happens though - as soon as he counter accused me I became even more sure I was right. Still, I recognise my posts have been hit or miss. Lots of people have said the same thing - I'm full of dumb tells and WIFOM, but I feel like throughout the game I have been giving my honest reasoning for my thoughts. People haven't liked a lot of the things I said from a logical standpoint, but I don't think it has been contrived or contorted.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:25 GMT

#1547

You don't have to pocket me, I already think you're town.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:28 GMT

#1548

Looking at Scott's filter again, in fairness he did have me on his "would lynch" list quite early on. I'd forgotten that.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:39 GMT

#1549

One more piece of OMGUS on Scott. He consistently said that he thought GG was town. At one point he said it was 70%. He never really walked back from it, and at one point he even said he thought we were going to mislynch. Yet, again he didn't do anything to stop the mislynch in progress. One time around, that's understandable. Hell, it happened to me the first round - I didn't think KS or Choco were Mafia. But for it to happen twice just reeks to me of a Mafia trying to make sure they sounded skeptical of a mislynch.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 08 2015 23:45 GMT

#1550

I'd like to hear from everyone else before I commit to a vote. People - we're in imminent danger of losing this game. I really feel like the town atmosphere is average. Lots of people are promising more text and then not delivering. If you're town and you want to win this, you need to start posting your thoughts in the thread over the next day. Commit to looking over one person you had as town previously. Post something. Anything. If we ML today then the Mafia can commit to a policy vote on any of the lurkers (especially Onegu) and ride the easy wagon home.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 09 2015 11:11 GMT

#1564

My reason for supporting milo is the same as everyone else's - he flipped his vote at the last moment on KS despite risking a mod kill, when he could have very easily AFK'd through it and got the confirmed kill on a blue. Yes, I recognise that there could be some sort of next level play going on there. But given that nobody seems to have any frigging idea who is mafia, I think relying on something like that to at least narrow the pool of enquiry a little bit is helpful. I agree that the rest of his posting has been a little lacking. But then Onegu has basically done nothing but troll (and I don't count his harping on about the rule as non-trolly) and people are still refusing to scum read him.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 09 2015 11:46 GMT

#1565

@TT I agree with the general sentiment that you've played a good game up to this point. If you're mafia and you win, I think you will deserve it for sure. However, your last post makes me think things are starting to come apart at the seams a little bit, because a milo/chocolate team literally makes no sense to me.

The situation at the end of EOD1 was that it was 5-4 to KS. Milo, at the last moment, after the role claim, took his vote off KS leaving it 4-4. If milo was scum with Chocolate, there is literally no reason for him to come off the KS wagon. He knew that I was around on the forums, and clearly Ritoky was because he posted just after EOD. So there was a very real risk that the vote would flip to Chocolate. Why would you bus a fellow mafia on day 1 right at the last moment to protect a blue, when you could very easily just AFK through it. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The fact that you're contorting things to this degree just to try and get some sort of wagon going on milo with Damdred is extremely suspicious to me, ESPECIALLY when we have Onegu who is a confirmed and unabashed troll as a much juicier target, if you're truly a flailing towny.

Honestly, the move also doesn't make sense even if milo is scum and Chocolate is town, because milo still would have no incentive to come off the blue for a different towny. This is a little less certain though, because I concede it is possible milo was doing some sort of next level play. But I think the strong likelihood is that he is town.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 09 2015 11:47 GMT

#1566

(Just to clarify, the reason I say he would have known I was around on the forums was because I was, and because I posted my vote on KS very late in the day. That he was aware of those things is an assumption on my part, obviously.)

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 09 2015 11:57 GMT

#1567

A less accusatory way of putting the above is "why do you think a me/milo/chocolate team makes sense?".