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On May 03 2015 12:21 scott31337 wrote:
Our last game though - you were pretty dormant though as scum- and trying to jump on a ML so early wouldn't be your style in my opinion.
Last game I went dormant after I lost my temper after being interrogated for like six hours straight (after which time ANYONE would look scummy). Prior to that I was in thread massively. If anything, this is actually quite similar to my last game because back then I was trying to set up rsoultin to be mislynched through a complicated series of plans (see the Mafia QT from that game).
Since there's only that one game to compare me against you're free to try to make a meta argument, but you only have my mafia play to compare against and no examples of my town play.
This post of yours makes me think you're just trying to back down and placate me now to make me leave you alone. Its not going to work. You're scum; and now I'm going to work out who your buddies are.
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On May 03 2015 12:44 scott31337 wrote:
I think FF, Superbia and Shining are town. FF because he's asking questions and pushing us forward. Superbia on meta and posts very little as scum and and I don't see that so far. Shining because we're connecting and having the same ideas.
Sicklucker and prplhz are in the scummy pile for actually showing up and having shit posts.
I think Celestial could be town - the push is so early on me makes me wonder.
Two easy to make town calls, at least that's my feeling on FF and Shining. Hell, they're the two strongest town calls that I put out myself in my initial reads post. Plus a similar shoutout for Superbia. In my opinion this is smart mafia play whichever side Superbia is on. If he's mafia he's been associated with two townies, if he's not mafia then it sows more confusion.
Two extremely easy scum calls because they've not posted much at all so they're soft targets. Nobody is going to defend them because there's not much to defend and they're not here to defend themselves right now; but it sets up nicely to potentially get a policy lynch train going.
Reversing direction on me. First I'm scum because I called him out as scum and he willfully attempted to manipulate the facts to try to make me look bad. Then when I call that out for nonsense we get this rapid backpedalling despite the fact that virtually nothing has changed, I'm still calling for his head but apparently that now that means I'm town.
My rough translation of the above post: "I, scott31337, am on the scum team. Please lynch me."
Anyway its 5am here. I'm going to sleep. Goodnight.
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On May 03 2015 18:27 Tictock wrote:
Apologies for being absent the first few hours of the game. My work sometimes has me in as early as 5am, and that is the case for the nest two days.
I am a total Mafia noob. Never played a game in my life and until recently never piqued my interest. I've been on TL for a few years now and have seen the Mafia section plenty of times, so when I decided to try my hand at the game I naturally came here.
So, given my newbishness, while I have read the thread up to this point (you guys were busy while I slept) I'm not too sure what to make of things. The suspicion around scott seems to have merit, but I will have to do a more thorough read of what transpired when I get some time.
I expect I should be done with work by midday and will be more active then.
Not alignment indicative, you really need to post something or personally I'm going to start scumming you as a lurker. You're waving that newbie flag way too hard (which I did in my very first game too, to hide the fact I was mafia).
On May 03 2015 19:58 Superbia wrote:Celestial likely mafai. Introductory lists posts like that more often come from mafia than from town. Mafia feel like they need to contribute and are usually afraid to make a casual entry. The entire thing also starts off with an excuse: + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote:
Hey guys. Sorry for the late entry. I've been somewhat distracted playing KanColle recently; there's an event on and I'm desperate to clear it, first event I've been in. Anyway there's probably just about enough to write something on most people now so...off we go.
Unfortunately in the time I've been away I've NOT been keeping an eye on games going on. Then again I tend to prefer any meta reading from games people have actually been in together. On with the show: What are you apologizing for? This feels like you yourself don't have any faith in your reads. This is likely because you had to fabricate them due to being mafia, because you feel confident enough to start a wagon on scott. Also, starting off with an apology for being late is pretty mafia.
I have absolute confidence in my reads actually. My comment about keeping an eye on games was meant to be directed at the fact that I'm not using people's prior game experience as a source of info because I was expecting people to throw the usual "he/she/I alway(s) plays like this!" stuff at me in response to my reads. My apology was directed at the fact that I'd not been in thread yet and people were calling for me to say something. Nice misrepresentation here but no, I'm not mafia this time out.
And "introductory list post is mafia"? Really? It was a solid wall of my thoughts on everyone up to that point with fingers pointed at three people. What a joke.
There's also a flagrant disparity between what you say about disformation and ritoky (which leads me to believe both are town if you end up being mafia): + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote:
disformation starting post I REALLY don't like. However he IS making an attempt to start producing reads. Earnest newbie with a weak entry I think. Weakly town.
ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. So you say that you yourself did not like disformation's opening post, but you feel like ritoky is scummy for pushing on him? Is it not townie for ritoky to push on something that may very well be scummy? Furthermore, "easy push"? Since when are you so sure that disformation is town?
You're misrepresenting things again here. I already said in my last post that of my three red reads it was the weakest, AND that it wasn't just for the push on disinformation. Stop trying to pretend that it was solely for that push.
I didn't like disinformation's opening post, no. But ultimately disinformation has posted stuff other than that so far. ritoky's actions up to that point had been to post garbage and pressure disinformation. Literally nothing else. disinformation's other posts make me somewhat think he's just a very newbie town player with a bad opening post. ritoky on the other hand hadn't posted anything at all to make me think he's not just trying to distract from mafia hunting.
Given that both you and scott are scum, ritoky was the one who seemed to be looking to misdirect the most at that point.
Rest of your reads are pretty fluffy.
>Claiming that a post containing two and a half town reads, three red reads and a bunch of nulls on people who are primarily inactive or new is fluffy in an attempt to make me look wishy-washy and unconfident.
Nice try, but you've just confirmed you're mafia. This chainsaw defence you're using for your scum buddy scott proves it. You're attacking his attacker, which is scummy as hell. Admittedly there's an outside chance that you're just OMGUSing me, but I think you're too experienced a player to do that, you're instead trying to save your buddy. At a guess you've told him in the mafia QT to shut up for a bit and stop making himself look worse whilst you try to get a different train going by undermining me and take the heat off him. Mafia team is Superbia and scott31337 + 1 other. Not sure about the last one, still don't like ritoky but can't say for certain.
Guys, lets lynch scott. Personally I'm about 95% sure he's mafia at this point and if he's not he's playing in a way detrimental to town anyway. If scott flips red then we can pretty much auto-lynch Superbia and that'll probably get us two reds in two days. If he flips green then I'll have to totally re-evaluate, but I'd be mind blown if he actually did that the way he's playing here.
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On May 03 2015 21:52 Superbia wrote:
That associative read between me and scott is pretty reaching and meh. There is no chainsaw defence.
You're defending him by attacking me, who also has a red read on you. That's a classic mafia side play. And now you're trying to distance yourself from it by claiming its reaching a bit. There was already an association between the two of you and you made it stronger with your post. You can claim that its reaching all you want but ultimately the association was there BEFORE you posted, you just made it worst.
What is/was your red read on ritoky then? Did you feel a need to include him as scum because you felt a need to put down a team of 3? Why did you mention ritoky's push on disinformation?
I wanted to try and get an early impression of who the whole team might by. My red read on him is as quoted, with the key part highlighted:
ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays.
To elaborate: virtually all of his posts to that point read as someone trying to send down off into discussing other things rather than hunting for mafia. Apart from a very soft push on a very soft target, which I assume was made to make it look like he was actually doing something. It was a weaker read than my read of you and scott given your apparent collusion, but it was still a read.
Since then he's done a bit more, but I'm still highly suspicious after that opening since he only started actually doing anything after I pushed him.
Also, how long did it take you to formulate that response? I.e., when did you read my post and when did you start to post this?
Well I woke up forty minutes ago, logged onto KanColle and came on here. So...within the last hour?
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On May 03 2015 22:01 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +What is/was your red read on ritoky then? Did you feel a need to include him as scum because you felt a need to put down a team of 3? Why did you mention ritoky's push on disinformation? I wanted to try and get an early impression of who the whole team might by. My red read on him is as quoted, with the key part highlighted: Show nested quote +ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. To elaborate: virtually all of his posts to that point read as someone trying to send down off into discussing other things rather than hunting for mafia. Apart from a very soft push on a very soft target, which I assume was made to make it look like he was actually doing something. It was a weaker read than my read of you and scott given your apparent collusion, but it was still a read. Since then he's done a bit more, but I'm still highly suspicious after that opening since he only started actually doing anything after I pushed him.
EBWOP: The push on disinformation was therefore part of the thing (it was an attempt to look townie by asking questions and pressuring, but doing it to someone who is an easy target) but not the whole thing, so stop trying to pretend it is to defend your scum buddy.
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On May 03 2015 22:07 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 22:01 -Celestial- wrote:On May 03 2015 21:52 Superbia wrote:
That associative read between me and scott is pretty reaching and meh. There is no chainsaw defence. You're defending him by attacking me, who also has a red read on you. That's a classic mafia side play. And now you're trying to distance yourself from it by claiming its reaching a bit. There was already an association between the two of you and you made it stronger with your post. You can claim that its reaching all you want but ultimately the association was there BEFORE you posted, you just made it worst. The problem with this logic is that all that you're saying is that this is my agenda, you're not proving it. Why am I not town trying to figure out your alignment?
Because I already had you down as a likely red given scott's slip up earlier outing himself as mafia and fingering you as probably mafia. All you're doing now is trying to find a way to save him and yourself into the bargain, and digging yourself a deeper hole in the process because I'm not buying it This is just your latest indicator of being scum. I can't actually prove what you're thinking because I'm not telepathic, but every marker points to you being scum.
Towards the close of play I fully expect you to bus him if he still looks like he's going down. In the hope that it'll get you town cred.
Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 22:01 -Celestial- wrote:What is/was your red read on ritoky then? Did you feel a need to include him as scum because you felt a need to put down a team of 3? Why did you mention ritoky's push on disinformation? I wanted to try and get an early impression of who the whole team might by. My red read on him is as quoted, with the key part highlighted: ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. To elaborate: virtually all of his posts to that point read as someone trying to send down off into discussing other things rather than hunting for mafia. Apart from a very soft push on a very soft target, which I assume was made to make it look like he was actually doing something. It was a weaker read than my read of you and scott given your apparent collusion, but it was still a read. Since then he's done a bit more, but I'm still highly suspicious after that opening since he only started actually doing anything after I pushed him. You have a number of people as null/neutral based on them not discussing the game or actively doing anything (iirc). Why is ritoky scum for doing this?
Neutrals from my initial post:
Ticktock - hadn't posted basically anything at all.
y0su - hadn't posted much and much of it was off topic, but is a newbie and isn't "posting scared". This was a bit of a tone read and I already stated if I don't start seeing something substantial from him soon its going to go red.
Half the Sky - had already stated she wouldn't be about until this evening.
prplhz - hadn't posted much except vague comments on The Shining. The longer it goes without him posting something substantial he'll start drifting red, but there wasn't much to work with initially.
sicklucker - I addressed this a few pages ago.
Stutters695 - hardly posted but stated he was going to "catch up quick". So I called him out on that.
ritoky of all of him HAD actually posted a fairly substantial amount but the majority of it was garbage and nonsense, not scum hunting. Hence why I had him red.
In short I was neutral reading people who had hardly posted, but I was red reading ritoky because he HAD posted and it was mostly garbage; nothing actually substantial at all. At least by that point.
Incidentally, Stutters, I'm still waiting. Reads, if you please. You've posted since I posted that initial set but you didn't respond to my request for reads. Or are you just going to outright ignore it?
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Anyway I'm going off for a bit. I'd really like to see some posting from those who haven't done much yet. Hopefully HtS will be back soonish and we can get her reads to work with too.
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Just a couple quick things before I go out for a meal.
On May 03 2015 23:08 Superbia wrote:
Celestial, you are a meta-esque player, correct? I.e. you prefer to get reads based on the meta-game of that player.
No I don't trust meta reads too much but I'll use them if I absolutely have to and have nothing else to go on. Though I much prefer meta reads on players who people have actually played with rather than just studying their game (because the "feel" of actually playing with them can be significant).
Current thoughts are that Superbia is still pretty dirty in my eyes. But is actually making a reasonable contribution now, though I dislike the evasiveness with respect to scott. I'm still pretty sure is scum but with a fairly hefty effort I could maybe be convinced otherwise.
scott is either playing a terrible, terrible town or is outright scum. And I doubt at this point that anything at all will convince me otherwise.
The push onto sicklucker is eh to me. I don't see any evidence of scum behaviour there and the main driving force is Superbia, who I have deep suspicions over, for reasons that for some reason he doesn't want to explain. I don't think it'd be the worst lynch in the world but I also don't think it'll help us much. I'd be very surprised if SL flipped mafia honestly; possible but it seems extremely unlikely.
On May 04 2015 02:41 y0su wrote:
-c- came in with what I feel was a very bold 1st post (list) that bugged me. why would he pick 3 scum out of the active players and and let others slide just because he didn't have a read (afk/low post count)?
The others slide until tomorrow. Then we can start looking to see who is still inactive and which out of them are possibly red. Its kinda hard to draw a conclusion off anyone when they've not posted anything yet.
Lynching inactives is a valid play if you have nothing better to go on but in my view we do have something better to go on. My mind would literally be blown if scott flips anything other than the deepest crimson.
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On May 04 2015 02:58 Superbia wrote:
Celestial, what do you think of Ritoky at this moment? What do you think of the fact that Ritoky's reads line up with mine?
Jury still out. I still think he's looked pretty scummy but he's been getting better and he was, after all, my weakest scum read in the first place.
The reads lining up isn't alignment indicative. Could be collusion, could be two people of either side coming up with the same thing, could be sheeping influence from the thread.
On May 04 2015 03:02 y0su wrote:the thought of -c- and scott being teammates crossed my mind  doesn't feel right (experience might tell me otherwise)
I know you have no reason to believe my word on whether or not I'm on a team with scott but if I was on his team I wouldn't have bussed him so early and so quickly.
On May 04 2015 03:06 Fecalfeast wrote:
-c- you seem really confident for being so new
As I mentioned in my last game I've played this quite a lot with people I've been in plays with (its a common team building and warm up activity in rehearsals). Plus I've played the SC2 mod. So I'm pretty comfortable with the game in general, just not the forum format in particular.
On a side note unless we seriously get some solid reads out of Stutters695 soon I'm going to start scumming him just for completely ignoring my repeated requests for sets of reads.
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Now I'm off out for a meal. See you guys later.
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Kinda drunk so coherency might be an issue. Though I'm concentrating really hard so hopefully not.
On May 04 2015 03:25 y0su wrote:
-c- why is it that necessary to "check-in and out" ?
Its not. I was doing it out of courtesy because people were asking me stuff.
On May 04 2015 03:35 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 03:21 -Celestial- wrote:On May 04 2015 02:58 Superbia wrote:
Celestial, what do you think of Ritoky at this moment? What do you think of the fact that Ritoky's reads line up with mine? Jury still out. I still think he's looked pretty scummy but he's been getting better and he was, after all, my weakest scum read in the first place. The reads lining up isn't alignment indicative. Could be collusion, could be two people of either side coming up with the same thing, could be sheeping influence from the thread. On May 04 2015 03:02 y0su wrote:the thought of -c- and scott being teammates crossed my mind doesn't feel right (experience might tell me otherwise) I know you have no reason to believe my word on whether or not I'm on a team with scott but if I was on his team I wouldn't have bussed him so early and so quickly. On May 04 2015 03:06 Fecalfeast wrote:
-c- you seem really confident for being so new As I mentioned in my last game I've played this quite a lot with people I've been in plays with (its a common team building and warm up activity in rehearsals). Plus I've played the SC2 mod. So I'm pretty comfortable with the game in general, just not the forum format in particular. On a side note unless we seriously get some solid reads out of Stutters695 soon I'm going to start scumming him just for completely ignoring my repeated requests for sets of reads. I don't really do d1. My reads are ass because there isn't nearly enough info to go off of and I'd rather sheep someone with a better track record or lynch someone who has no intention of playing. I think I've already posted about how much I did in NSM7 lol.
Same defence as sicklucker. Sorry I don't really buy it. I've only played one other game of forum-based mafia but it doesn't hurt to start pressuring people from day 1 as ideally with 3 mafia you want one mafia lynch day 1, one day 2 and one day 3. Failing a vigi kill that is.
That being said its not enough for me to read you as scum. Not when scott has dug himself that hole to lie in. You're not a d1 lynch in my book. Scott is. Maybe if we had a lack of options but if we don't lynch scott I wouldn't mind seeing a Superbia lynch either because I'm very uncomfortable with his play.
On May 04 2015 04:11 y0su wrote:
only one spreadsheet? hmm
Obviously not trying hard enough. I'm in the middle of generating venn diagrams for everyone in the game plus assocation link spider diagrams. ;P
On May 04 2015 04:52 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 01:58 Superbia wrote:On May 04 2015 01:54 ritoky wrote:On May 04 2015 01:46 Superbia wrote:
Ritoky you want to share your scum reads so far or do you just wanna chill and see for a little? maybe scott and maybe shining atm are my top 2. not particularly firm on either. am moreso looking for towns right now. i think me, ff, -c- are pretty much town. then superbia, and prp are 2nd tier town for now. I like shining as scum too. I'm undecided on scott. I had him as town early on. I'm decently sure -c- is town here as well. Undecided on prp, but I liked his initial thoughts. Also agreed on FF being town. Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 02:03 Superbia wrote:On May 04 2015 01:59 ritoky wrote:On May 04 2015 01:55 Superbia wrote:On May 04 2015 01:48 ritoky wrote:On May 03 2015 19:58 Superbia wrote:
Rest of your reads are pretty fluffy. while i agree with you that the majority of that opening post is meh at best, his scott read is good. you don't seem to mention it as having any value. why? if you disagree, tell me bout it m8. The scott read was okay at best. I don't see how it is very alignment indicative. Did scott really blindly trust me? I don't know. It's not entirely clear to me what scott did that lead to the decision to vote HtS, it was pretty quiet after I thought I caught the slip. To me it felt like there was a bit of confusion from scott's part on what was actually happening. I would like to hear some more from scott on his thought process, but I don't find his vote on HtS particularly alignment indicative. it reminded me of how i lynched mafia on day 1 in hearthstone mafia. someone gave a piss poor and inaccurate read on day 1. and then another player immediately agreed with it and helped push it as an attempt to pocket the person who made the read and get in on the ground floor of a lynch. i looked into the accuracy of the read/push and it was complete garbage. in that situation, the guy who follows the garbage read is usually more likely scum than the person making it. that was the case in hearthstone. and i think i poorly explained this one, rip me. Yeah, maybe. I thought he was decently townie before any of that though. I also thought that the interactions between scott and the shining shady (iirc). Felt like at least one of them trusted the other one too easily (and maybe some pocketing going on). I think I found our first scum here, guys. I just can't understand the town motivation here. I'm scum. Undecided on Scott. But our interactions were shady. Too much easy trusting and maybe pocketing. But I'm suspicious of Scott? So how am I pocketing? This leads to Super NOT BEING INTERESTED IN A SCOTT LYNCH. WHICH LEADS TO HIM GETTING ON THE SL WAGON. Wtf bro? I'm scum, right? Why are you voting on MY wagon? This could be an attempt to save scummate Scott.
I like this post. A lot. Although it may be because I'm tunneling so hard on the "scott and Superbia are mafia team" thing. I'll take another look when I'm sober.
I have to say I don't like all of these "I don't do day 1" excuses. I can understand WHY but it comes across as a supremely easy way to lurk as a mafia. If there were a total lack of other reads I'd not hesitate to just policy lynch someone claiming that, despite the fact I don't like policy lynches. The goal is to find mafia, not to wait until D2 and THEN start to find mafia.
Anyway I'll try to do a full re-evaluation of everyone tomorrow plus write up the case on scott in full. Pending any change in circumstances of course. I can't do it now because I've had far too much to drink. I'd be happy with a lynch of scott or Superbia at this point. scott for preference because even if he is town his play is detrimental to a win; plus assuming scott flips red (which is looking highly likely) I think we can almost auto-lynch Superbia unless he drastically changes his tune (and even then could just be bussing). Anyone else would be a fairly weak lynch I think.
I'll probably be about a bit but I'm kinda woozy and might drop out at any moment. If anyone wants to ask questions hopefully I'll catch them before I drop off.
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Case on scott:
Game starts with a bunch of non-alignment indicative things. Although I really don't like the whole thing of people posting "yay I'm town" because it honestly just comes across as insincere to me. He made a comment about keeping an eye on veterans he's seen play, specifically Superbia and sicklucker:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 08:07 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 08:04 Superbia wrote:On May 03 2015 08:04 scott31337 wrote:On May 03 2015 08:02 sicklucker wrote:
Scott are you the dude that always posts in obs qts? Yea I am - I like doing my research on things before starting. Excellent. What are your thoughts going into the game then? Keep an eye on a couplne of the veterans I've seen play a lot, I made some notes about them and things to look for. Beyond that - find the scummy ones! and of course, have fun.
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 08:11 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 08:09 Superbia wrote:On May 03 2015 08:07 scott31337 wrote:On May 03 2015 08:04 Superbia wrote:On May 03 2015 08:04 scott31337 wrote:On May 03 2015 08:02 sicklucker wrote:
Scott are you the dude that always posts in obs qts? Yea I am - I like doing my research on things before starting. Excellent. What are your thoughts going into the game then? Keep an eye on a couplne of the veterans I've seen play a lot, I made some notes about them and things to look for. Beyond that - find the scummy ones! and of course, have fun. Which of the veterans are you keeping an eye on? You and sick. Sick pulls out some weird off the wall plays. We'll see how things progress.
Other than that his first nine posts don't really show anything at all. He makes random comments about how he's going to play the game and banters a little with Shining without actually pressuring. Not really alignment indicative but he's pretty much just meandering around off-topic. Admittedly this was very early on.
Then came the whole HtS incident. Something I missed last time was that he ACTUALLY MADE AN EXCUSE FOR HTS BEFORE JUMPING ON THAT WAGON:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:11 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 09:08 Superbia wrote:On May 03 2015 09:07 The Shining wrote:On May 03 2015 09:06 Superbia wrote:
HtS, SL, X. Based off of lack of entrances? HtS posted like 1 1/2 hours before day started. Nowhere to be found. SL didn't interact. It's past 1am for HtS - we'll see on her. I'm not caring for SL either, he did his shitty spoiler town post and went poof
So yeah, he himself makes an excuse for HtS and seems to completely accept that she just wouldn't be about, despite Superbia's initial criticism of her not being around. Superbia makes a jokey comment about giving people a pass because of timezones. Then Shining points out that HtS said she'd pick it up on the second day:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:28 The Shining wrote:
He did ask if you were the obs dude, as well.
As for HTS, I'm slightly hesitant there. That's pure policy to me. It's late for her and it's the weekend. She said she'd pick it up tomorrow.
Then comes the rather damning part. Superbia posts the following:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:30 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 09:28 The Shining wrote:
He did ask if you were the obs dude, as well.
As for HTS, I'm slightly hesitant there. That's pure policy to me. It's late for her and it's the weekend. She said she'd pick it up tomorrow. Rofl. Where did she say that? On May 03 2015 09:31 Superbia wrote:
UHOH On May 03 2015 09:33 Superbia wrote:
It's not in her filter. :D
Scott outright accepts this at face value. No attempt to question it. Either he's gleefully jumping on a train that someone else has started early, over-excited that he's caught someone lying and can get an early mislynch; or he's accepting what a mafia buddy is saying because he inherently trusts Superbia due to being on the same team. NO TOWN WOULD PLAY THIS WAY. There's an outside possibility it's just one of the worst town moves ever, but I don't buy that excuse. If scott is town then based on this he's an outright liability.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 09:33 scott31337 wrote:
UT OH
On May 03 2015 09:34 scott31337 wrote:
EBWOP
##Unvote
##Vote: Half the Sky
It was at this point Superbia points out to scott that there's a voting thread and scott notices it. This will become relevant later:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:40 scott31337 wrote:
Oh we do have a thread - last one didn't.. ty
It's also at this point that he throws a vote onto sicklucker. This is pure sheeping of Shining's pressure vote as far as I can tell and I think it was done just so that someone else other than him had votes on them. He doesn't give any justification for putting it on sicklucker. Though it's worth noting he's still not putting it in the damn voting thread.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 09:43 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 09:37 Superbia wrote:I thought that was a game winning slipperino.  Thought it would be too ez Okay then, SL it is for now. ##Unvote
##Vote: Sicklucker
He finally does some research himself and initially I think he thinks he can probably get the HtS ball rolling again until he realises there really IS a post by HtS saying she would be away:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 09:45 scott31337 wrote:That HtS message was posted on April 25th/last week. I don't think that counts Nobody knew the game was starting Saturday until a couple days ago. On May 03 2015 09:47 scott31337 wrote:
nm she posted another inactive Sunday post
Then there's not much for a while. He asks ritoky for thoughts which aren't provided, but he doesn't follow it up with pressure on ritoky despite the fact that ritoky is basically posting nonsense. Then he goes off talking about the fight for a few posts and seems to be sitting pretty until I finally post my entry and tear into him over the HtS thing. He responds by outright LYING by misrepresenting what he did and trying to put suspicion on me:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 12:05 scott31337 wrote:Never checked voting thread-Celestial Never voted for HtS-Me A reads list is nice but you are going in the slightly scummy pile for now. Superbia actually voted for HtS in the voting thread- but you went more on me for it Interesting. Sick actually posted, but that could be understandable. I'm keeping an eye on you.
Which I absolutely nailed him to the wall for, and his response was enough for me to put my vote on him:
+ Show Spoiler +
Prior to this he'd also replied to ritoky and FF in which he tried to claim he did mean to vote...but he wanted to see my reaction to him having not voted in the voting thread. So which is it? Either you meant to vote and it was a mistake therefore you screwed up and can't use it as a defence. Or you deliberately didn't vote in the thread to try to set up a trap that...actually wouldn't reveal anything that's alignment indicative and therefore a stupid plan. He also tries to cast suspicion on me, in part by bringing up the fact that I didn't mention that he voted sicklucker, which was frankly only tangentially relevent to the HtS thing. More misidrection.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 12:14 scott31337 wrote:I actually meant to vote. + Show Spoiler + but wanted to see Celestial's reaction with posting only in the voting thread. He didn't mention I did vote for SL though - who he says hasn't posted either I need to read another game of his if he has any (He said he took a couple month break, so it may not even exist) Cel's got me worried a little bit.
He then tries to scum me with HtS. Two birds with one stone I guess.
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:16 scott31337 wrote:So why are you reacting on the HtS vote so much when I did vote for sicklucker? He had his two posts? Is he your scumbuddy and not wanting to draw attention to? But HtS is free reign, eh?
An argument which I annihilated again:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:24 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 12:16 scott31337 wrote:
So why are you reacting on the HtS vote so much when I did vote for sicklucker? He had his two posts? Is he your scumbuddy and not wanting to draw attention to? But HtS is free reign, eh? What? Did you actually miss the entire point of my case on you? I'll spell it out: the case on you is NOT because you voted HtS. Its because of the fact you voted HtS blindly in response to a claim from Superbia that you DID NOT CHECK. That's either terrible town play or pure scum. And you constant misrepresentation of everything here firmly makes me believe scum. I'm going to need to see a damn convincing argument from someone at this point to want to lynch anybody else. Either you're scum or you're playing in a way that is going to make town lose.
He then starts his backpedalling after realising that I'm not backing down to go defensive, that he can't easily fool people into thinking I'm scum and that I'm still gunning for him:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:21 scott31337 wrote:
Our last game though - you were pretty dormant though as scum- and trying to jump on a ML so early wouldn't be your style in my opinion.
Except this is pretty much wrong too. I went dormant last game when I was scum as a result of me losing my temper after a six hour straight interrogation (or something like that, can't remember exactly, too long ago) which made me utterly sick of the game and wanting out of it. Before then I'd been pretty active. I don't like meta arguments generally (although him having actually played with me makes it a bit better) but now he's misrepresenting my meta from my prior game in order to flip around and to try to townread me to maybe placate me a bit. Not buying it.
Then he starts the excuses:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:31 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 12:24 -Celestial- wrote:On May 03 2015 12:16 scott31337 wrote:
So why are you reacting on the HtS vote so much when I did vote for sicklucker? He had his two posts? Is he your scumbuddy and not wanting to draw attention to? But HtS is free reign, eh? What? Did you actually miss the entire point of my case on you? I'll spell it out: the case on you is NOT because you voted HtS. Its because of the fact you voted HtS blindly in response to a claim from Superbia that you DID NOT CHECK. That's either terrible town play or pure scum. And you constant misrepresentation of everything here firmly makes me believe scum. I'm going to need to see a damn convincing argument from someone at this point to want to lynch anybody else. Either you're scum or you're playing in a way that is going to make town lose. You are right - I did not check it until afterwards. I did not re-read the pre-game excuses until afterwards. That was my fault. I got better backing when I roll scum anyway - I wouldn't have made such a dumb mistake. We have plenty of time - we will have convincing arguments for you
Translation: "Yes I was a dumbass, but I'm town really, please believe me!" Sorry, no. Also ritoky pointed out the rather hillarious use of "we" here. I don't think this is so much a slipup as an oversight but amusingly could easily be used to refer to himself and his mafia buddies.
He then provides some reads. Which I analysed:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 12:57 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 12:44 scott31337 wrote:
I think FF, Superbia and Shining are town. FF because he's asking questions and pushing us forward. Superbia on meta and posts very little as scum and and I don't see that so far. Shining because we're connecting and having the same ideas.
Sicklucker and prplhz are in the scummy pile for actually showing up and having shit posts.
I think Celestial could be town - the push is so early on me makes me wonder.
Two easy to make town calls, at least that's my feeling on FF and Shining. Hell, they're the two strongest town calls that I put out myself in my initial reads post. Plus a similar shoutout for Superbia. In my opinion this is smart mafia play whichever side Superbia is on. If he's mafia he's been associated with two townies, if he's not mafia then it sows more confusion. Two extremely easy scum calls because they've not posted much at all so they're soft targets. Nobody is going to defend them because there's not much to defend and they're not here to defend themselves right now; but it sets up nicely to potentially get a policy lynch train going. Reversing direction on me. First I'm scum because I called him out as scum and he willfully attempted to manipulate the facts to try to make me look bad. Then when I call that out for nonsense we get this rapid backpedalling despite the fact that virtually nothing has changed, I'm still calling for his head but apparently that now that means I'm town. My rough translation of the above post: "I, scott31337, am on the scum team. Please lynch me." Anyway its 5am here. I'm going to sleep. Goodnight.
His next few posts are just one liners or nothing with any substance. In the meantime Superbia pulls out his chainsaw and starts to use it on me, but that doesn't really work out too well either. If my tentative theory about a Superbia/scott team is true it may be that Superbia told scott in the mafia QT to shut up and let him do what he can to help. Which leads me off into a discussion about ritoky with Superbia. That later stops as well. Though I don't think its quite enough to totally damn Superbia, he's also been playing kinda scummy in my eyes.
scott later repeats his previous excuses:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 04 2015 02:30 scott31337 wrote:
So I jumped a bit to conclusions with HtS - I actually thought that QT information was spilled - I did put a vote in this thread and by the time I found out about the vote thread - I reread her pregame filter with both D1 excuses - from April 25th and from May 1st. There was no need to vote her in the voting thread. I've voted SL for now, he's still at the bottom of my list. I've caught up in the thread - I was about to ask Ritoky about his prplhz read but he explained this already.
Before replying to a very easy softball lobbed by Superbia to make it look like he's engaging:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 04 2015 02:49 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 02:32 Superbia wrote:On May 04 2015 02:30 scott31337 wrote:
So I jumped a bit to conclusions with HtS - I actually thought that QT information was spilled - I did put a vote in this thread and by the time I found out about the vote thread - I reread her pregame filter with both D1 excuses - from April 25th and from May 1st. There was no need to vote her in the voting thread. I've voted SL for now, he's still at the bottom of my list. I've caught up in the thread - I was about to ask Ritoky about his prplhz read but he explained this already.
Did you read HtS's filter before you put down your vote? No I did not - She hadn't posted anything in the game - I didn't think of her pre-game filter until it was mentioned. Then I saw the April 25th excuse and stopped there the first time - voted since I thought it was TMI - It was noted it was her May 1st post about being AFK instead. The information made sense, so I let it go.
scott's last set of reads are classic mafia:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 04 2015 03:53 scott31337 wrote:Here's where I am at - Superbia & Fecalfeast are in the towny pile - driving conversation and going in the right direction - Superbia posts much less as mafia. The Shining is slight town - his reaction here + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 09:35 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 14:18 Half the Sky wrote:
Inactive Sunday (or first half of D1, since I'm out at a shower) but normal activity will resume Sunday night into Monday morning. You guys need to freaking read if you're gonna keep trying to scum EVERYTHING I POST. ffs. feels genuine to me. y0su-seems to be trying to go in the right direction, although asking a lot of coaching questions in the thread - slight town Celestial - I think him starting his tunnel on me so early is a towny trait - I just don't see him coming off the bat as scum, reading the QT and coming up with this plan. Tictock - one whole post - + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 18:27 Tictock wrote:
Apologies for being absent the first few hours of the game. My work sometimes has me in as early as 5am, and that is the case for the nest two days.
I am a total Mafia noob. Never played a game in my life and until recently never piqued my interest. I've been on TL for a few years now and have seen the Mafia section plenty of times, so when I decided to try my hand at the game I naturally came here.
So, given my newbishness, while I have read the thread up to this point (you guys were busy while I slept) I'm not too sure what to make of things. The suspicion around scott seems to have merit, but I will have to do a more thorough read of what transpired when I get some time.
I expect I should be done with work by midday and will be more active then. - Mentions being a noob twice, like he's overstating his noobness - beyond that, nadda. disinformation - + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2015 10:42 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 10:33 Superbia wrote:
Z. New player comes into thread with canned post. Asks others what to look for while he has a coach to ask this. Feels like a dumbtell-ish planned post (and therefore scummy). The fact that he admits that this kind of post was sort of planned feels townie.
It's not optimal to ask other players because you are in the game with them. I'm not going to be able to give straight up advice because I am unsure of his alignment. Thank you very much. Clarified your stance much better. Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 10:33 ritoky wrote:
don't you have town reads on people like shining for being active, pushing, and questioning. explain to me why what superbia is doing is different from shining. Well, yes. But this post: Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 09:45 Superbia wrote:
Actually I'll let you guys do this one and observe for now. :D Just raises a red flag for me. As I said earlier I have an idea how this could be town motivated. But I don't really see it. Damn. Forgot. =D Have some more: Mentioning he was going to post lots of smileys - then his next post, he has none - and then tried to add some extras in the post afterwards - honestly forgot?  sicklucker - Asked about my obs'ing, made a shit spoiler I'm town post - disappeared. useless The others haven't posted enough yet (or at all)
"Everyone is null or town, isn't that nice? Except the one guy I'm voting for, because he's not around right now". Things of note especially being him rating Superbia so highly town along with FF (who I think is a very easy towncall here) and him continuing his read on me gradually turning from scum to town. He's voted sicklucker which means he needs some reason, so he makes him his sole red read on the basis that he's posted hardly anything and then disappeared despite the fact that others who haven't posted enough are simply dismissed as neutral.
Of course he rapidly backpedals on that too as soon as sicklucker starts posting:
+ Show Spoiler + On May 04 2015 10:21 scott31337 wrote:So Sick's actually doing a few things - an obvtownread on Shining - thinking of voting for me - and says he's already doing shit - so that's a start. I'd like to give him some more time for now to start + Show Spoiler +##UnvoteSuper - I understand FF, but Ritoky? What makes you town read without explanation? He asked why I didn't put him in the same pile with FF - but I'm just not seeing him in the "free pass town" pile. I can see your view on Shining but I do think he's town. I think I'll re-read disinformation - that's a very interesting point - I thought it was a little weird on his smileys though.
So now everyone is town or neutral. How nice. He's not really pushing anyone except now he's gone back on disinformation who early on was a very soft target who a couple of people were getting suspicious of. I think he's just looking for an easy mislynch train to set up in opposition to the fact that he knows I'm gunning for him and that there's basically no other train rolling.
scott is either scum or is playing horribly scummy town. Either way he's a total liability and I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him flip red.
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On May 04 2015 20:52 Half the Sky wrote:
The other problem I have with Scott reading his filter (and after page 15 again) is not only that he didn't check Superbia's rationale/whatever but typically if you sheep someone you obviously want to be sure that the person in question is town. Going through his filter, he said he was going to keep an eye on the vets, Superbia being one of them. But if you look at page 1 of Scott's filter, there is not even an inference that he's concluding that Superbia is town nor does he appear confident in the former's reads before sheeping him. So that's another reason to scumread Scott for sure.
Nice catch, I actually didn't catch that association. And welcome to the game, HtS.
On May 04 2015 20:59 sicklucker wrote:
Im pretty sure we coached him to doing a list post so I kind of expect him to do it.
Why are listposts frowned apon there my fav.
Well people better get used to it because full analysis of everyone so far as my opening post is something I'm planning to do as both alignments into future games. 
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On May 04 2015 21:02 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 20:59 sicklucker wrote:
Im pretty sure we coached him to doing a list post so I kind of expect him to do it.
Why are listposts frowned apon there my fav. Same. I didn't have a problem with it, but there were at least 2-3 comments I read from others that they didn't like listposts or that listposts were scummy.
Eh, if people start lynching me for it then they'll see I do it as both town and scum so they'll quickly learn that its NAI.
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On May 04 2015 21:56 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 20:59 sicklucker wrote:
Im pretty sure we coached him to doing a list post so I kind of expect him to do it.
Why are listposts frowned apon there my fav. when did you coach him (-c-) to do a list post? (what alignment?)
Mafia.
I've only played one other game. I was the Mafia Roleblocker. Link is in my profile.
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On May 04 2015 22:00 y0su wrote:
so your mafia coaching is paying off well?
Yes. More practically I read a bunch of guides before I started playing that first game and I read how important it is to keep a consistent style. Hence why I'm largely trying to follow a similar style.
serious question though, why did your opening list have 3 mafia reads despite so many "too little info" reads?
Because I had scott down as a pretty hard scumread and was very uncomfortable about Superbia both by himself and with his association with scott given the whole HtS thing. ritoky was just messing up the thread with insanity, hence timewasting whilst also looking like he's actually doing something which I'm given to understand is another mafia tell.
There happened to be three. If there'd been five people looking scummy then I'd have listed five. If scott had been the only one I'd only have listed him. Last game I learned to be more aggressive with posting reads because I opened very softly then by towning/nulling everyone and it looked kinda bad on reflection.
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EBWOP: I realise there can't be five people on the team when its stated there are three but what I mean is if there'd been five suspicious people I'd have listed five and then looked to start eliminating people from that list.
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On May 04 2015 22:04 -Celestial- wrote:Yes. More practically I read a bunch of guides before I started playing that first game and I read how important it is to keep a consistent style. Hence why I'm largely trying to follow a similar style.
EBWOP 2: I also realise that this doesn't help my position in this game, but I also don't want to compromise future games by deliberately changing my style just because I was mafia last time and am town this time.
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If I'm being completely honest with myself as well...yes I kinda wanted to see three reds. So that may have biased me a little against ritoky. Plus his posting style opened up weird as hell which rubbed me the wrong way. Like I've said several times now he's probably my weakest mafia read.
But with scott and Superbia I'm less unsure. I could maybe be convinced Superbia isn't mafia with a titanic effort and some really good arguments but I doubt the word of god him or herself will be enough to convince me that scott isn't red.
If you honestly think I'm trying to get a mislynch then vote for me instead. But if that were to happen then when I flip town I want everyone to go back and look again at the case on scott because to me he's the dirtiest person in here by far.
ritoky is eh to me right now. I still don't like the joking around and there's a certain amount of circumstantial evidence linking him with Superbia. But he's also been making more of an effort that he was initially (admittedly that's not hard). Still leaning scum, but on balance I don't think his position has changed too much in my eyes. He's still scummy but still my weakest read and I could be convinced otherwise on him much more easily than scott or Superbia.
I was originally planning to write a full new set of reads for everyone today but since there's less than ten hours left and since I really doubt anyone could look worse to me than scott at this point I'm not sure its worth doing until after the flip when I'll have the votes to look at as well. Unless something comes up in the meantime to force me to do it early, of course.
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On May 04 2015 23:20 y0su wrote:
It's just sounds like -c- is willing to do anything to get scott (even if he's not scum?)... I do like the read on scott and haven't found anything wrong in the case.
Let me put it another way: I'm not infallible and I'm not running this game so I don't have a list of who is which alignment.
That being said if scott isn't mafia then firstly he's being totally useless as a town and secondly I'll have to find a hat to eat. There is no way I can see him as anything other than scum with his actions in this thread.
Seven and a half hours remaining. I really can't see anything that indicates that anyone else would be a better day 1 lynch than scott so far.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tsQTEV4.jpg)
