EPTIf y0su is scum, it basically means scum will have had a very inactive team.
If there actually had been an active mafia, it probably is ritoky.
Newbie Student Mafia IX - Page 19
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If y0su is scum, it basically means scum will have had a very inactive team. If there actually had been an active mafia, it probably is ritoky. | ||
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Not sure if ritoky was parroting Superbia's reasons regarding the second wagon, or if he actually suggested that first. Might need to check who presented those ideas. If he stated those ideas first then it's another point in his favour of being town. Also probably should double check what the thread sentiment was like when he started to push Stutters, although I think this is probably the strongest point in his favour. Same with prplhz when he said role or mafia - I was pretty sure by then more people were looking at him. He didn't have to take that route though I'm not sure that he and prplhz played together often besides Titanic. For him to be familiar with him. To be fair when Superbia wanted to push my lynch he told the thread that I was either a PR (power role) or mafia. But he didn't ask me outright (like rit did prplhz) - he just told the thread that. I dunno if that really makes a difference, but if I had to split hairs Superbia just expressed his opinion to the thread and did not ask me to claim. He was the first vote against me anyways, so I think he took the (slightly) more town approach to it. Celestial makes a few good arguments against ritoky taking credit but I have to do serious filter diving to make sure the sequence of events particularly with the thread sentiment and his push on prplhz really lines up that way. Otherwise we really could just be paranoid as shit all when y0su could very well be another gimme mafia. It'd be unusual for a mafia team to play like this (inactive on aggregate), but it has happened. | ||
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y0su didn't appear to have a stance on tictock prior, I don't think. So how does he know that tictock is a good person to sheep (or recognising that someone is townie enough and solid enough to have a case to sheep). (Answer that question if you are here please.) Basically 1 How you are sure Tictock is town 2 How you're sure sicklucker is mafia 3 Why am I more mafia than sicklucker using a behaviour based argument (you currently have your vote on me) | ||
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On May 10 2015 18:14 sicklucker wrote: So thats why im voting him. Think id rather tictoc over yosu but I really dont care sicklucker, when you return... You have a PoE list of three people. Can you rank them? We're getting closer to EoD. I have seen your reasons for calling each of your three people scum - ritoky, yosu, tictock, but what is the order in which you'd lynch them, and what makes one scummy over another? | ||
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On May 10 2015 18:14 sicklucker wrote: I would acualy rather see yosu dead over ritoky. My logic is if hes town then hes not going to derp away an auto win an dvote me here like the newer players will Have you seen ritoky's PoE list? It's Shining and myself as the last mafia. On May 10 2015 06:49 ritoky wrote: i get home in probably 4 hrs, so i will read it more thoroughly there. that said, my initial thoughts is that SL has been tunneled pretty hard on me for a lot of the game, which doesn't seem like a winning strat as the last mafia alive. he is high on the lynch list, tunneling me and me flipping town will only put him closer to the lynch so idk...doesn't seem like a winning line of play. TT statistically likely town -c- pretty much town superbia conf town y0su considered my claim so might be town. which leaves shining and hts....so after i read your SL read, i should probably read those 2 filters. Not sure what he means by tictock being "statistically likely" but more important, what do you think about his PoE list different from yours? You've PoEed Tictock and y0su, yet you suspect ritoky who provides those reasons for towning two of your PoEs. Thoughts on that? | ||
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On May 11 2015 00:34 y0su wrote: HtS, you keep saying N1 actions are WIFOM. Explain how? WIFOM comes from the film the Princess Bride where the guy keeps switching the wine glasses and the other guy wasn't sure which wine glass had the poison and he keeps second guessing himself. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM Basically it's circular reasoning. You're sure I'm mafia because Superbia pushed me and Superbia got roleblocked because he pushed my lynch. Consider that we have two veterans who have flipped scum. How do you know that they didn't kill the people to make those they scumread look bad? That's an example from the wiki but... Concept: The Mafia knows that there is a Doctor, and the Doctor's best play is to protect the Cop no matter what, so they should not try to kill the Cop. BUT the Doctor knows this too, and can protect someone other than the Cop in order to have a chance at stopping the night-kill. But the Mafia knows that the Doctor has this option, and they may be able to kill the Cop if the Doctor thinks that they aren't going to try it. But the Doctor knows... etc. Basically the reasoning here is one of two possibilities 1 Mafia roleblocked Superbia to protect me. 2 Mafia roleblocked Superbia to make me look bad BECAUSE Superbia pushed me. We have two veterans in the game. Is it not reasonable to think they'd take advantage of newbie towns thinking this? Also consider that Fecalfeast got killed. I believe FF townread me. He was suspicious of Superbia and ritoky based on tone. So where does that rationale take you if you're going to conclude on night actions? Many reasons were thrown out for FF getting killed. 1 Medic dodge 2 Disinformation I think suggested that FF could have been on to someone. 3 No reasonable shot of getting lynched. It's WIFOM because you can go in circles trying to debate which is the most likely. That's what that means. Am I making sense? | ||
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On May 06 2015 05:53 Fecalfeast wrote: current scummers: sl, shining, maybe super, maybe ritoky maybes based on tonereads recently. town: HtS, disambiguation, -c- Playing video games til daypost So based on your rationale, the four in his list might be scum? Or are most likely? We're down to one scummer, and Shining and sicklucker are both alive. Superbia has since been confirmed town vigilante. Based on night actions alone they both can't be scum. Now you see why night actions are a horrible reason (esp early game) to scumread someone? That's why I'm asking for a behaviour based argument. | ||
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On May 11 2015 01:03 y0su wrote: The options you present don't fit that mold because there's motivation behind them. RB on super to make you look bad is worse (for scum) than simply having you shot incorrectly (if you're town). Couple of flaws with this - Scum also have to keep their mislynch options open. If Superbia shoots incorrectly and I'm flipped town, they also have to fabricate reads for d2. I am aware this is a WIFOM argument but veteran scumteams have done this before. My point is that all outcomes have to be considered and using just one is dangerous. Now... An even bigger flaw in your argument. You even said yourself just now that Superbia dropped me as a scumread (and he subsequently went off on Stutters). He pinged Stutters for being an afk lurker and Stutters flips mafia vanilla N2. So how do I still look bad? Superbia pings Stutters at night and he was roleblocked. How are you still sure that I'm mafia based on these night actions? | ||
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On May 11 2015 00:31 y0su wrote: Super pretty much said he was off of voting you right after the d2 started. At that point you didn't have a reason to be afraid of him. [...] The strongest thing I currently have is the N1 actions. I'm not going to throw away my vote like Scott did and if that means switching to SL I will - because I do support the arguments for it. If I'm dead either way then I'll keep my vote on you just as a reminder to others. I questioned him on this as to why he switched his focus N1. First quote out of the gate N1. On May 05 2015 23:33 Superbia wrote: Stutters, you were obviously around at EoD. You responded to my ninja ping out within seconds. You were lurking. Why the fuck would you lurk at EoD if you were town? He said he dropped it after the lynch. On May 07 2015 03:04 Superbia wrote: 1. If you were going to say either, I would want to know your thought process behind it, and how it has affected your progression of reads (are you re-evaluating, etc.). This is why I don't want to explain shit like this. I don't want scum (and therefore, anyone) to know the idea behind the questions I'm asking. Is it benign? Is it serious? Who knows but me. 3. Except FF was never blue there, and thus a shitty medic dodge. If I thought FF was blue I would've pressured him EoD (or EoN, w/e) for changing his mind on things to generally dodgy reads and see if I can get a better role-read on him. Instead, when Ritoky (iirc) asks me what I think of FF, and I say he's probably still town and I leave it at that. Scum don't give a shit about who they roleblock n1 specifically for this reason. You are going about it the wrong way. I am town and scum had some sort of role-read on me. No idea why. 4. BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT. He was pushing hard on prp the entire time and he was shady as fuck for lurking EoD1 (still is) and getting caught hard (oh btw, pretty everyone I've caught lurking at EoD1 has been scum during past games). Then all he does is tunnel on prp hard for small, benign reasons and throwing some scum on me (iirc), which is just scummy as fuck. So, I want to know if I need to waste my time reading him or if we can lynch prp and I can re-evaluate from that flip. The whole different game same story thing is cute, but ultimately irrelevant. It's supposed to be about my alignment, not your opinion on cop outing early d2 with a red. Wanting the cop to out with a red in a vacuum is absolutely not alignment indicative, let alone these circumstances (which make it probably more town-indicative). 6. What does this have to do with anything? Maybe I answered your initial question incorrectly: I caught stutters actively lurking red-handedly. I thought it was super scummy, I go after stutters. I saw no reason to keep bashing heads with you since the lynch was already done, and I had room to re-evaluate everything. I challenged him on this and he had dropped me for that reason N1. He pinged Stutters N1 and he was roleblocked, funny how Stutters wasn't mentioned in your assessment... | ||
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Newb town? Or newb scum? I need to check into ritoky - note to self... | ||
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On May 11 2015 02:16 ritoky wrote: I honestly think he is a newb who hasn't been able to fully keep up with the thread and you just bullied him into a direction. That's what that felt like. I actually find this post pretty hilarious. Earlier you said I was scum for not following through on people. y0su is my top scumread (whether you agree with it or not is a separate issue) and I'm attempting to flesh out information to ensure he's not a newbie town playing suboptimally. I'm pointing out flaws in his logic and you are calling it bullying? He already had a direction on me and I explained the flaws in it. I also love how you use a tonal argument to infer scum on me. Remember how you said it was a problem using it against Superbia? *yawn* Double standards aren't doing you any favours right now. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [ritoky] + Newbie Mini Mafia LV Town Jailkeeper Killed Night 2 [N] TL Order Mafia LXVI Town Vanilla Lynched Day 5 TL Mafia LXVII: Storm Mafia 2 Town Vanilla Killed Night 4 Showdown Mafia Town Suicide Bomber Killed Night 1 Cell (Mini?) Mafia III Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 5 Mission Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 4 Hearthstone Mafia Town Uther Lightbringer Endgamed Day 4 VI Titanic Mini Mafia: The Return of MSPaint Town Medic Killed Night 4 TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells Mafia Two-Shot Vigilante Lynched Day 3 Imperial Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 4 VII Titanic Mini Mafia: I Have a Cunning Plan... Third Party Serial Killer Endgamed Night 4 + Show Spoiler [sicklucker] + Campus Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 7 VI Titanic Mini Mafia: The Return of MSPaint Mafia Roleblocker Endgamed Day 5 Student Mafia IV Town Vanilla Killed Night 3 TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells Town Vanilla Survived Night 5 Metal Mini Mafia! Town Vanilla Modkilled Night 3 Imperial Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 6 The Void Mafia Mafia Rolecop Survived Day 5 PYP: Pick Your Protoss Mini Mafia Town Probe Survived Day 2 Linux Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Modkilled Day 1 Horn of Africa Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Modkilled Day 1 Slytherin Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 2 I need to also meta ritoky and follow through on him to be absolutely sure he's scum as I've yet to play a game with him when he's town. I have to afk again, but I'll post final judgement before EoD. | ||
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I'm not seeing too much in the direction of critical thought from him, but I just need some opinions on that one way or another from the others. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:12 ritoky wrote: ? you asked for opinions on the exchange and i gave you one. i think it's pretty clear you just browbeat the guy. I didn't have a problem with the fact you gave an opinion. I have a problem with how you stated it based on your standards for scumreading people earlier in the game. Those standards of yours are changing through out the game. Why? That is what I am challenging. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:17 ritoky wrote: What standards? I said you bullied him into siding with you, that has nothing to do with tone. You literally just browbeat him with walls of text until he acquiesced. Yawn. Standards being the lack of followthrough and the tonal read, this is about the third time or even more than that tone has come up. Also your responses show you aren't critically looking at why he changed direction. Nor did you appear to even analyse my walls of text (other than saying it was walls of text). | ||
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