|
On May 09 2015 09:11 Half the Sky wrote:
Superbia is confirmed town now. So....your thoughts on y0su scumreading me?
EBWOP - this is directed at sicklucker - relevant quote.
On May 09 2015 05:48 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 22:50 Half the Sky wrote:On May 08 2015 11:09 The Shining wrote:
Yeah I was excusing the vote, not scumming him for it, and he comes back and tells me it's not alignment indicative. Felt like a defensive post, and unnecessary.
And I'd lynch him solely off of doing that more than once, while trying to direct blues without reading. I can't even begin to fathom where that town motivation would come from. Shining he has done this as both alignments. If sicklucker is scum, it's not for this. What I'm more interested in, is how he knew he wanted to lynch Stutters and y0su earlier. I asked him earlier who other than Superbia he wanted to lynch - he replied Stutters and y0su without any reasoning. SL, what do you think on y0su now? I don't have much time to answer everything... I would shoot you. I'm bad at reading what people post, but I think I'm catching on to some of the logic behind moves. Why did Super get RB'd and FF NK'd? The events leading up to EoD1 have Super pushing hardest for the train to move from scott to HtS. Let's assuming our two roles are indeed Doc/Vig. Why RB Super and NK FF? I thought FF's play towards the end of the day was a bit weak, why NK him? Medic dodge?. Yes, but why? Super was coming strong after HtS (when I read it later I thought it was just an attempt to get a 2nd train - especially with how he decided he didn't want a d2 lynch of HtS.) But what if scum didn't read it that way (at least during the night?) Now, there were 3 people on the HtS wagon (one being Prpl) and one vote on Prpl (so 3 potential vigilantes to look out for). They guessed right and RB'd the biggest danger to HtS (If HtS wasn't scum, WHY RB SOMEONE GUNNING FOR HER??). Now, why not just kill Super? Again, with his EoD charge against HtS it would look kind of obvious to kill him (and there's the possibility that he had a doc visit since Ritoky + Show Spoiler +beyond pro play by dis to pick up the CC in place of Ritoky, just a shame Ritoky thanked him instead of keeping up the charade was on that train as well and might have anticipated the danger to Super. Beyond that, I think SL and his "I do math for a living - trust me" is my "wtf stutters is town" #3. Anyway, been a long and hard day (had to put my cat down today) and I have a tournament to wake up early for tomorrow. (I'll recheck the thread in about 15 min before going to bed)
|
So y0su, Stutters has flipped mafia vanilla.
We're down to one scum. What has changed? Why? You didn't have thoughts on Stutters all game either. Why?
On May 09 2015 05:48 y0su wrote:I don't have much time to answer everything... I would shoot you. I'm bad at reading what people post, but I think I'm catching on to some of the logic behind moves. Why did Super get RB'd and FF NK'd? The events leading up to EoD1 have Super pushing hardest for the train to move from scott to HtS. Let's assuming our two roles are indeed Doc/Vig. Why RB Super and NK FF? I thought FF's play towards the end of the day was a bit weak, why NK him? Medic dodge?. Yes, but why? Super was coming strong after HtS (when I read it later I thought it was just an attempt to get a 2nd train - especially with how he decided he didn't want a d2 lynch of HtS.) But what if scum didn't read it that way (at least during the night?) Now, there were 3 people on the HtS wagon (one being Prpl) and one vote on Prpl (so 3 potential vigilantes to look out for). They guessed right and RB'd the biggest danger to HtS (If HtS wasn't scum, WHY RB SOMEONE GUNNING FOR HER??). Now, why not just kill Super? Again, with his EoD charge against HtS it would look kind of obvious to kill him (and there's the possibility that he had a doc visit since Ritoky + Show Spoiler +beyond pro play by dis to pick up the CC in place of Ritoky, just a shame Ritoky thanked him instead of keeping up the charade was on that train as well and might have anticipated the danger to Super. Beyond that, I think SL and his "I do math for a living - trust me" is my "wtf stutters is town" #3. Anyway, been a long and hard day (had to put my cat down today) and I have a tournament to wake up early for tomorrow. (I'll recheck the thread in about 15 min before going to bed)
[/QUOTE]
If you still think it's either sicklucker or myself, what behaviour based actions are you seeing to draw those conclusions?
|
Or alternatively do you think there is something between either of the scum flips (prplhz d2 or stutters n2) that indicates one of us? Or someone else?
|
I'd like to see answers to these questions.
Or alternatively you can provide a baby seal which would save us all some trouble.
|
And since you're new in case you're not aware, posting a picture of a baby seal basically means you're claiming scum. Where it came from, I think something about a scummer in a past game posting that picture when he tried to blue claim or something.
|
The point of the matter is I'm having a difficult time realising you're not fabricating your reads.
But I can see the wifom argument coming from a newb townie. So I want a behaviour based argument.
|
On May 09 2015 11:20 ritoky wrote:
I cc'd dis to try to eat a bullet for the doc and cause confusion abt who the mafia should shoot
I am abt to get an appendectomy in 30 mins so if hosts want to sub me that is fine but I will be highly limited for 24 hrs
On May 09 2015 11:24 ritoky wrote:
It's a classic robik vt play
Do you really think you would have achieved anything with that?
|
On May 09 2015 10:23 sicklucker wrote:
No ritokys a confident mafia he can think thats a good idea in a newbie game. And what he did is null its just classic filler to have more posts.
Reading yosus filter all im sure of is that hes not afraid to post which is a town tell for a first time mafia. His logic is flimsy but he posts what he thinks. Not what his scum qt tells him
Which is why I'm curious to hear his answers.
What do you think is the difference between newbie town and newbie scum? I'm guessing he's waiting for answers from the mafia qt? How do you know others weren't advising him?
|
I mean there's a shittonne of time between answers but I don't know.
|
But y0su should probably answer something before too long. If he's town, he should show us, that.
For sheer amusement:
|
Tictock, I missed that and I also wanted to comment more on sicklucker's posts on ritoky on page 89 because I want to bring up another point on ritoky. But to answer your question first.
First off, I said this on all the newbies and not just you at different points in the game. When you presented your reads, especially after others had made the same conclusion, it was difficult to tell whether you really felt what you were saying (or really came to that conclusion) or whether you just copied what others were saying. Sheeping (copying/parroting) in of itself is not a problem provided that you are sheeping honest town reads. A lot of what you had said was after what others had said. Veterans often (and this includes myself) get scumread for that.
That said, even in my first game (student 4, link in my profile) as town vanilla, I did sheep a few reads D1/D2 and I almost got lynched for it D2. Fellow town Oatsmaster saw newbie scum in me and I was just a split second from getting hammered.
However, newbie town and newbie scum generally do this a bit, so for me to make a solid case against you, I'd have to fully filter dive you and follow your progression. But given the amount you've been doing it, for awhile I felt I might need to keep my eye on you a bit.
|
On May 09 2015 10:05 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 02:00 ritoky wrote:prp is town because i literally mind melded him here: On May 03 2015 08:40 prplhz wrote:On May 03 2015 08:34 The Shining wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and be as useless as always D1. Let's do this. Willing to lynch Super, FF, Scott so far.
Super wants to lynch Scott for opening with a town claim. FF and Super willing to lynch Scott off that. It's cuz Scott looks bad off of an unpressured town claim. FF and Super setting up to bus Scott d1 if needed.
Super, FF, Scott scumteam gg this is rubbing me the WRONG WAY insanely weak reason to tr a mafia
Guess what sicklucker? Guess who tried to get me lynched on this? I also said I had a major problem with this too.
Then ritoky comes out with this, which I mentioned why I had a problem with all this D1.
On May 05 2015 01:26 ritoky wrote:
i like hts because she is keying into the same posts as me
i dislike hts because she is having opposite reactions to them.
Off of one post without reading my filter he said this:
On May 05 2015 04:54 ritoky wrote:
wtf, this is way too diplomatic sounding. has damdred taken over your account and taught you the diplomacy voice?
Then the full blown scumread - this read is very contrived which I contested afterwards.
On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made.
The above is very contrived.
The best part is that he uses tone to defend Superbia (when I pushed him) and then used it off one post to push me. I know him and Shining discussed that, the problem with ritoky's response is that he said that tone was my primary argument against Superbia. Actually. it wasn't.
Here are the pertinent quotes from ritoky.
On May 04 2015 02:03 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 02:01 y0su wrote:On May 04 2015 01:54 ritoky wrote:On May 04 2015 01:46 Superbia wrote:
Ritoky you want to share your scum reads so far or do you just wanna chill and see for a little? maybe scott and maybe shining atm are my top 2. not particularly firm on either. am moreso looking for towns right now. i think me, ff, -c- are pretty much town. then superbia, and prp are 2nd tier town for now. been busy (working on my lists when I get to sit at the computer) quite curious about how you put someone on your team (even t2) with just a few posts? he made one of the highest quality observations in the thread in regard to shining and i had literally the exact same thought reading the exact same thing: Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 08:40 prplhz wrote:On May 03 2015 08:34 The Shining wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and be as useless as always D1. Let's do this. Willing to lynch Super, FF, Scott so far.
Super wants to lynch Scott for opening with a town claim. FF and Super willing to lynch Scott off that. It's cuz Scott looks bad off of an unpressured town claim. FF and Super setting up to bus Scott d1 if needed.
Super, FF, Scott scumteam gg this is rubbing me the WRONG WAY Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 08:41 prplhz wrote:
like he's trying to make up some excuse for being useless and then he tries to solve the game and that like 30 posts into the game he is also giving definitive alignment reads instead of hedging. if i remember prp's play right he hedges a lot more as mafia.
This response is straight up wrong. Could also be trying to take some attention off prplhz.
Unfortunately Superbia did something similar, but I don't think he made a tonal argument against me.
More or less and he's confirmed vigilante.
So how do we know ritoky wasn't parroting off him? He called superbia and prplhz town.
Even worse, he tried to deflect using vote logic (which I argued can be contorted to fit a mafia agenda) by saying that there's no way that two scum would be on my wagon out of three. I had argued prior that ritoky's rationale for trying to push my lynch based on tone was pretty screwy because he accused me of being diplomatic off one post. When I was actually pretty forceful on Superbia.
Voting helps narrow, but I'm glad you're seeing the same thing I am sicklucker. I don't buy mindmelding at all, not on D1, anyone can say at any time that they mindmeld with people. It's something you can confirm to yourself and use to draw conclusion for yourself, but at the same time, making that a primary argument to the thread, there are so many things wrong with that.
I want to stress this quote again:
On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made.
I explained to ritoky why the first point does NOT make me scummy, yet he proceeded to push my lynch.
Pages 35-39 have the progression of things.
On May 05 2015 05:45 ritoky wrote:and there's such a tonal shift between this: Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 05:37 Half the Sky wrote:On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made. 1 Already rationalised the opposite reads. If you agree to disagree, fine. 2 I've made points against my two top scumreads (additional against Scott/original against Superbia), neither of which are or have been in the thread as of late to further engage. But there are three scummers in this setup, so why not just keep digging and seeing what else turns up? 3 Diplomatic tone (reading what you just posted) was from one post. Go back to how I cased Superbia and tell me that's diplomatic. In fact I would think #1 (your point on reading them opposite) contradicts the fact that I'm diplomatic. The post you quoted, I'm looking for followthrough from Tictock in case you couldn't tell. 4 The "don't feel obviously town" is about as bad as it gets as you could apply that to half the players in this game right now. That's a PoE argument best saved for late game. Plus you were more interested in Stutters when you threw your vote on me. There are some flaws in your logic. Particularly #3. Try again. and this: Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 04:51 Half the Sky wrote:On May 04 2015 05:23 Tictock wrote:
Both Superbia and The Shining made some eyebrow raising early game plays, but they appear to be contributing now and I can easily see the early game stuff being sillyness or just attempts at pressure. No real reads on them.
I'm getting pretty strong town vibes from y0su, disformation, and ritoky. I really like disformation's attempts to poke and ask questions. y0su is my weakest read of these 3, but feels like a solid town.
Everyone else... well there simply isn't enough out of prplhz or sicklucker to really go off of. Not much to go off of Stutters695 either, another person who states he "doesn't do day 1" which is pretty meh but NAI.
Pretty much all I got for now. On May 04 2015 16:16 Tictock wrote:
I left HtS out of my earlier reads due to just joining the thread. That was awhile ago and HtS did not provide much besides some suspicions against Superbia. Getting a scum read for now until there is something to show otherwise.
As for Superbia, I'm having a hard time getting a solid read now. I was getting a scum vibe from his play the first half of D1 here but he is looking more town here near the end of the day. I want to keep an eye on him but atm he doesn't seem like a good lynch.
prplhz is looking pretty scum to me right now too. He made one post with actual content and even that was mostly an excuse as to why he isn't posting.
Scott put himself in a position where he looked pretty bad, but lately he's bee making an effort and seems fairly calm given the suspicions around him. That feels town to me, he's not ignoring what ppl say about him but he's not focused on defending himself either.
prp and HtS really need to contribute, SL and Stutters are also barely active & have contributed nothing solid thus far. I am really curious to see what Tictock has to say on Superbia particularly on the exchange between him and Celestial if he has any input or even between that and Shining. Both disinformation and myself are also headscratching on him at the moment, and one of my issues with Superbia is that particular exchange. I realise he's partying hard (happy birthday btw!) but look forward to a response when he returns. in terms of my 3rd point. you're actually pushing me on the points i made above, which is cool and i can get behind that. yet here you're curious and in passive voice and not actively seeking responses or answers, which i can't get behind and sounds mafia being diplomatic style.
It's very difficult because I can see this going both ways on him. There were a lot of gaps in his logic as well in his SK/third party game (which is anti-town role btw, but not mafia).
The only thing that complicates things is that Superbia also scumread me for reasons that didn't make me mafia either, though it didn't help RL nearly canned me D1.
|
If I had to rank the three that I want to lynch, in this order.
1 y0su
2 ritoky
3 sicklucker
I will probably go through filters for everyone else to make sure no one is slipping by.
|
EBWOP - and to be honest, sicklucker is a policy lynch based on how close his town/scum metas are. But I'm a bit more confident now that he might be town here.
|
y0su is still not back, so I'm throwing a vote on him. Let's see if he'll shake it up then.
|
But yeh sicklucker, those are some insights of ritoky those early pushes from town and mafia motivation. And the way he pushed Stutters though, that's a point in his favour. So I don't know what approach to take here.
If y0su flips town, all of ritoky's reads need to be under a microscope.
|
I need to re-read and catch up on the thread but I still see y0su has FINALLY reappeared.
y0su - I called you out for pinning me on night actions. I said before night actions are WIFOM. Meaning you cannot know why night actions happened the way they did unless you are the one coordinating it in the mafia qt.
That said,
On May 10 2015 22:34 y0su wrote:
However, I'm still sticking to my guns that scum thought HtS was in danger night one (they KNEW there was a vig and might have legitimately feared for HtS). I think they just got lucky/unlucky with RBing super who was shooting at dis instead!
how in the bloody hell are you speculating on this? I asked you again to state the behavioural reasons for voting me. If others are suspicious on behaviour and I'm suspicious on speculative night actions, what makes the night actions more certain than daytime behaviour?
You're aware that scum can kill certain people or RB certain people to make others look bad, right?
|
Also y0su, if I was afraid of Superbia, what do you think of me confronting him first thing D2? Since that's the train of thinking you're taking...
|
Tictock, I know you don't trust meta but the key differentiator to me with sicklucker is that this game he seems to have direction with his reads.
He is NOT coherent as EITHER alignment. He plays very suboptimally as town, which is why he's a policy lynch - his suboptimal play as town benefits his scum games.
As town, he's not what you would call a typical town leader. He is generally difficult to read but one of the key differences that I can tell is that his pushes come earlier as town (even if they are soft pushes) and he has a general direction with his scumreads. As scum, he has never PoEed, that I can tell you, and I've been on a scumteam with him - that game (Void) he relied a LOT on other people's misreads of people. He had much LESS direction with his scumreads. If I'm making sense there.
At this stage of the game, PoE is a valid method of scumhunting with two members eliminated. We have 2 ML until mylo (mislynch and lose) and sicklucker is still keeping his eyes open.
|
On May 10 2015 18:09 Tictock wrote:
How is that town logic?
Only scum tries to say that we don't have to bother to look for scum anymore. At this stage of the game that's the only thing Town has to NOT do.
This is literally my first game ever of Mafia, I'm willing to say that the mechanics you've suggested this entire game are god awful and will never aid town.
##Vote: sicklucker
##Vote: sicklucker
##Vote: sicklucker
How do you know this isn't suboptimal town play? I've seen games where town just got lazy and complacent. Namely Newbie LX (where the townies PoEed in lylo) and Guardians bled that everywhere, because people eliminated each other on the night actions. The result was scum getting eliminated from a few people's PoE lists.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
