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On February 21 2015 08:33 kitaman27 wrote:
HI NODE! :o
How ya been?
Ohai :>
Been spending my time trying to play games fast. Figured I'd stop by, see if I can't grease up ye olde scumdar.
Funny how the newbie game gets a handful of serious old-timers. (I see you, old man Wave)
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On February 24 2015 09:25 Snarfs wrote:
Okay, I see some other games with some of these other guys as well. And Tronak said already that it's his/her first mafia game ever so it looks like I'm covered in this regard, no need to continue down the rabbit hole.
Is this the point where someone proposes an RNG lynch?
This was really early in the game, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd like to point out that this is actually really scummy. Beyond an RNG lynch being an awful idea for reasons already stated, there's also bit of a deflection here -- Snarfs isn't going to propose a lynch, "someone" is. Nevermind that he's the first one to actually bring it up.
Snarfs also just posted a wall of text without actually saying much of anything. Yeah, there are some reads in there, but considering there are a couple of people that he'd lynch "pretty happily", there's nothing concrete. Just some feels without conclusions and a distinct lack of an actual case or vote.
Based on that, I'm going to park at ##Vote: Snarfs for now.
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On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things.
I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight.
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On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post
OMGUS harder, why don't you?
It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about:
On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread
On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts
Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why.
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Oops, second sentence in first paragraph should read:
You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight-up refusing to commit to anything, even as you push multiple targets.
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On February 25 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. RNG was so pure. This post bleeds red to me Something about the sequence here reads "let me make several arguments for why you're mafia and then say that I don't suspect you but leave the door open for doing so later"
Mostly it's because my belief in Snarfs being mafia is significantly stronger. I don't believe that someone as active as Damdred early on that attracts as much attention as he has is likely to be scum. I feel that we're much better off early on putting pressure on people that are hesitant to post. Yes, it's possible to post a lot and be scum, but town benefits a lot more at this point from forcing those that aren't posting to respond -- Damdred's already given us plenty to work with as time passes. However, I also think he could also be doing a much better job of actually hunting scum. (For one thing, when the threads get as long as they do as quickly as they do in this forum, you'd better believe quotes are an important tool if you want people to listen to you. Don't depend on others to draw the conclusions you have.)
Which brings me to Snarfs: He's content to pop up and comment on what's going on, but constantly asking people what they think of other people isn't actually much of a contribution. What does he actually think about anybody other than me? His big post seems substantial, but what's backing it up? Again, he says he'd be "pretty happy" to lynch either The Shining or sicklucker, but flash forward a day and there's still nothing else on those two. Like, it costs nothing to throw your vote around. Put your money where your mouth is.
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On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it
We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day.
And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far.
On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town."
On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia).
"Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia."
Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious.
On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information.
This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town)
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On February 25 2015 07:30 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia."
Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) ok, do it once, I can give a pass with a decent-sounding answer do it TWICE? no way who do you actually scumread if all of your would-be cases turn into "I don't actually read him mafia yet"?
Hi, have you seen my posts on snarfs? Do you see where my vote is sitting right now?
And if you'd be willing to call Tronak scum based on what we've seen so far, be my guest. I'm not. My hope is that he'll see the pressure and step up to the plate, but if he doesn't, well, my vote can certainly be changed.
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On February 25 2015 10:57 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 17:37 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2015 09:25 Snarfs wrote:
Okay, I see some other games with some of these other guys as well. And Tronak said already that it's his/her first mafia game ever so it looks like I'm covered in this regard, no need to continue down the rabbit hole.
Is this the point where someone proposes an RNG lynch? This was really early in the game, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd like to point out that this is actually really scummy. Beyond an RNG lynch being an awful idea for reasons already stated, there's also bit of a deflection here -- Snarfs isn't going to propose a lynch, "someone" is. Nevermind that he's the first one to actually bring it up. Snarfs also just posted a wall of text without actually saying much of anything. Yeah, there are some reads in there, but considering there are a couple of people that he'd lynch "pretty happily", there's nothing concrete. Just some feels without conclusions and a distinct lack of an actual case or vote. Based on that, I'm going to park at ##Vote: Snarfs for now. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 04:51 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. RNG was so pure. This post bleeds red to me Something about the sequence here reads "let me make several arguments for why you're mafia and then say that I don't suspect you but leave the door open for doing so later" I don't believe that someone as active as Damdred early on that attracts as much attention as he has is likely to be scum. I feel that we're much better off early on putting pressure on people that are hesitant to post. Yes, it's possible to post a lot and be scum, but town benefits a lot more at this point from forcing those that aren't posting to respond -- Damdred's already given us plenty to work with as time passes. However, I also think he could also be doing a much better job of actually hunting scum. (For one thing, when the threads get as long as they do as quickly as they do in this forum, you'd better believe quotes are an important tool if you want people to listen to you. Don't depend on others to draw the conclusions you have.)
Which brings me to Snarfs: He's content to pop up and comment on what's going on, but constantly asking people what they think of other people isn't actually much of a contribution. What does he actually think about anybody other than me? His big post seems substantial, but what's backing it up? Again, he says he'd be "pretty happy" to lynch either The Shining or sicklucker, but flash forward a day and there's still nothing else on those two. Like, it costs nothing to throw your vote around. Put your money where your mouth is. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:41 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:30 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia."
Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) ok, do it once, I can give a pass with a decent-sounding answer do it TWICE? no way who do you actually scumread if all of your would-be cases turn into "I don't actually read him mafia yet"?
And if you'd be willing to call Tronak scum based on what we've seen so far, be my guest. I'm not. My hope is that he'll see the pressure and step up to the plate, but if he doesn't, well, my vote can certainly be changed.
Explain please
Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me.
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On February 25 2015 11:33 Probulous wrote:
"Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged"
If he concluded you were mafia would that change things?
I agree we need to see more from him.
Eh, it would probably depend on the analysis. Obviously I'd fight it, but it would at least spark discussion, which usually leads to some sort of information or committal, which is always good. Whereas when he says I'm town all I can really do is say "k" and move on.
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EPT
