EPTNewbie Student Mafia VI - Page 4
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 25 2015 12:39 _Tormented_ wrote: 1.) Just the feeling I got by reading all the different directions he was going in. Now he is either misguided or mafia. He wrote an essay with no real evidence against me and has done pretty much nothing else since to help the town besides get mad at yamato for changing his mind. 2.) You were obtuse because you were just spamming random useless shit with no value. On further observations, you are more than likely town. 3.) I had no other real reads, I just put town as a placeholder. I still think ksc is more scummy than SL in that argument. 4.) damdred is more than likely town as is Prob. ok so 1) isn't correct in my reading. Artanis's reasoning was pretty solid imo given that you didn't explain what you said in 3 here 3) why the fuck would you call them town if you have no read on them???? wtf i just don't get this dude lmao idc about his #2, i tend to get newer players thinking i'm mafia due to earlygame spam so it means nothing to me either way. he's right about ksc > sl and damd, prob town, but i also feel like those are easy reads rn. shrug | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
nah fuck it having a Zen moment. Tormented is a distraction. Yeah I don't get where he's coming from but that doesn't make him mafia. I don't like his posts, but it feels like it's too easy. Like I'm supposed to want to lynch him because I think his content is poor, even though in reality what matters early isn't poor content but the absence of content. We're not lynching Tormented today. Lemme read some more before I go to sleep and see where I'm at | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
(1) don't like a couple of his reads. I feel like he has no good reason to be keeping Artie in null and on further reflection, his Tormented and Kelsier suspicions seem too easy (2) it is really odd how he complains about the game direction while (a) having 3-4 townreads and a couple of scumreads who are viable d1 lynches, per his filter, and (b) how he's been one of the more active and involved posters in the thread. I'm not even sure I have as many reads as he does right now (though I could be wrong) and I think the thread direction is fine, as long as the rest of the turn isn't stagnant. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: yamato77 | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 25 2015 16:52 yamato77 wrote: you made a towncase and called me mafia for it thanks bud. great response, would not lynch for it ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: yamato77 | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
or put another way, if the thread direction is bad, what are you doing about it? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
People I would lynch right now: - yamato obviously - I could lynch Wave, he's in this area where he's posted enough to be seen but he doesn't look like he's really trying to solve things. It's really weird reading his filter; I like his Damdred questioning but as soon as that subthread fizzles out, his posts are just so unimpressive to me - he has a post basically fishing for thread sentiment on lynching Kelsier, and when I asked him why he thought Kelsier's question was suspicious he never replied. Apparent sudden onset laziness culminates in (imo) lazy read of Tronak here. - I could also lynch sicklucker. I liked his intro because it felt like classic town sicklucker to me, but he hasn't been involved in the thread at all since then. I would rather give him one more day since he cited a pretty valid reason for being inactive to this point, but for him inactivity is alignment-indicative, so he's on the table over other people. People I would not lynch: - Artanis - Damdred - Tronak - Tormented - Snarfs - Node - Probulous Unknown pile: - MAYBE Kelsier. I have to admit part of this is associative with sicklucker and Wave, and I'd lynch him over the other people in this list. But I would lynch the 3 in my first list over him. I feel like his play is also distracting and lynchbait rather than mafia, but I could also see where he might take this tack as mafia after replacing into a difficult situation (presuming he is mafia, he replaced into a mafia slot piloted by someone who we had pretty good reason to think was mafia due to inactivity). I'm still undecided on him but I don't think I want him when I could have the top 3. - Shining obviously, kinda hope if he's not gonna end up being able to play that he gets modkilled, but I forget if Blazinghand modkills people for that and I don't feel like factchecking for 3 seconds to find out  I'm probably wrong about at least one of my lynch targets (and by extension one of my not-lynch targets), but I'll have time to figure that out. But the lynch should be among yamato, Wave or sicklucker today IMO. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 24 2015 15:25 WaveofShadow wrote: And such is often the problem I have with newer players (doesn't have to be a complete noob for this to apply). Textbook mafia play often also looks like textbook 'I'm not sure what else to do here' noob play. Now he's voting Tronak for... what? Something that I'd pretty much to the letter call "'I'm not sure what else to do here' noob play." I'd almost rather lynch Wave over yamato. How about that? I like my arguments better for lynching him on further reflection. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: WaveofShadow | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
highlights: g3 i went to 1 life twice, played a board wipe, then stabilized (at 1!) by dropping sorin + 2 creatures and swinging with 2 on the field god bless lifelink and America catching up in a bit | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 25 2015 22:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Eden how are you so sure that Tormented is a distraction lynch over just, you know, actually being scum? I've established how his thought process makes no sense and no one has come up with a reasonable argument against it. His thought process not making sense isn't alignment-indicative to me. People can be bad at mafia, or I can just not understand a person's thought process. What mattered more to me is that he seemed pretty sincere about what he was saying. It kinda felt like a "checklist" lynch - like we have a list of things mafia tend to do, and the arguments just kinda went down the list and checked things off, without looking for the deeper motivation and context of why Tormented was saying what he was saying. On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. "Adhering more to thread sentiment" isn't what Wave was doing with Kelsier. He just floats the question out there and does nothing with it afterward. He even said "I think this is a scummy question" and then ignored me when I asked why. That isn't probing people for their thoughts. He kinda did some probing with Damdred which is why I'm a little hesitant (not enough to matter), but after that he just goes on cruise control. And yes, his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory with the quote I provided. He acknowledges a weakness in being able to read new people who say things that are superficially suspicious. A new player says something superficially suspicious. A townie in this situation would question the new player further to understand where that player is coming from, being cognizant of his own weakness in reading and seeking to overcome his bias and find a more accurate read. A mobster in this situation would just vote the guy for contradicting himself and then go "oops, looks like my newbie-reading weakness caught me again, haha!" after the guy flips town. On February 25 2015 21:09 Tronak wrote: About this, Eden what made you abandon your line of scum arguments on Kelsier? Just his case on sicklucker? You considered Yamato a better target? or any other thing I cant arrive to see? I feel I have better targets. I thought HTS was a good lynch since she's never inactive like this, and Kelsier's deliberate obstinacy on entering the game didn't help. But it's difficult for me to tell whether Kelsier's antagonism and obfuscation was from a townie or mafia POV. It's clearly anti-town, but that doesn't make him mafia. I feel I have actual mafia reads on people, so I wanted to give myself some more time to observe him. On February 26 2015 00:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think this post is very townie because the paranoia is very well articulated and omnipresent in everything, as well as having a very clear idea about what to him is acting in the best interest of town and being congruent in it. This in contrast to Tormented for which, I once again repeat, no one has found a viable explanation regarding his sudden shift in thoughts. I agree with your assessment of Tronak, but not Tormented. The thing Tormented said that made me think the core of your case (inconsistent paranoia) wasn't valid anymore is that he used town reads as filler. It sounds like a silly thing to do and nothing about it is exclusively townie, but when he said that, it just struck me as the most plausible answer. Let's consider a mafia mindset when he posts that list. Giving almost everyone a townread is pretty dumb, wouldn't you say? It'd be hard to walk so much of that back, and it's also hard to even substantiate the reads to begin with. Coming out with a reads list on everyone is not something mafia want to do, because they don't want to commit themselves to something so early and especially not on so many people. I'm done with p35, catching up now. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Kelsier, sicklucker is town. sicklucker, Kelsier is (probably) town. (Contradicting myself from earlier lol much scum!! But he's actually started getting involved and his lines of questioning make more sense to me. He's not today's lynch.) Y'all stop and help me lynch Wave or yamato, prefs Wave. I kinda get this Yoda Zen sense that Artanis might be mafia but I'm not even entertaining it seriously unless/until Wave flips scum. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Why don't you go ahead and call me mafia if you're gonna spin my arguments with half-baked suspicions like that? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
More half-baked suspicions. That all you got? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:23 yamato77 wrote: Like, this is the only real read you've given on Snarfs but you've been chainsaw defending him all game by pushing the people who are suspicious of him. Regardless of Snarf's alignment, this makes you look incredibly suspicious. You're an experienced player, right? Because this is a pretty bad read on me, and it's making me think I should just lynch you if this is honestly the best you have. I've substantiated my reasons for why I'm pushing the people I'm pushing. They have nothing to do with defending Snarfs. For you to call it a chainsaw defense requires you to prove that (a) I have an interest in defending Snarfs, and (b) my pushes are the result primarily or exclusively of that interest and cannot be in significant part for other reasons. You can't prove either of those, because I don't have any a priori interest in defending Snarfs, and I've already shown that I'm pushing people because I think they're mafia. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Yup I'm totally leading the snarfs lynch. Hear that damdred? You should totally lynch me because I'm the one pushing to lynch snarfs, amirite? I didn't say you were leading it. Are you even reading my post? yamato voted for Snarfs and wanted to lynch him, you said "I might be cool with this. At the very least I like the post" and then Damdred moves to vote Snarfs too. The thread sentiment was obviously turning toward lynching Snarfs. Why are you being so fucking obtuse about this? What is your goal here? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:45 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol you literally said I'm turning this onto snarfs. I made it very clear I haven't even read the guy properly and haven't had time, nor have I voted him. If anything you're the one flinging shit right now eden. I said you and yamato (my two scumreads atm) are. You chimed in and essentially voiced some support with a Snarfs lynch without voting for it. Damdred follows in and thread sentiment turns toward it. You are not this fucking dense. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 26 2015 04:45 Eden1892 wrote: Responding to older stuff I missed b/c I overestimated how much time I had before work. I reserve the right to make hilariously blatant contradictions after I read the posts from after I left "Adhering more to thread sentiment" isn't what Wave was doing with Kelsier. He just floats the question out there and does nothing with it afterward. He even said "I think this is a scummy question" and then ignored me when I asked why. That isn't probing people for their thoughts. He kinda did some probing with Damdred which is why I'm a little hesitant (not enough to matter), but after that he just goes on cruise control. And yes, his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory with the quote I provided. He acknowledges a weakness in being able to read new people who say things that are superficially suspicious. A new player says something superficially suspicious. A townie in this situation would question the new player further to understand where that player is coming from, being cognizant of his own weakness in reading and seeking to overcome his bias and find a more accurate read. A mobster in this situation would just vote the guy for contradicting himself and then go "oops, looks like my newbie-reading weakness caught me again, haha!" after the guy flips town. And now who's chainsaw-defending, huh? I just checked your filter, you literally haven't given a read on Wave all game long. Yet as soon as I start pushing Wave you literally make things up (I "don't have a case on Wave" even though I've posted it and quoted it here for you) and start shit flinging without even so much as voting for me. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote: Why do you think snarfs is so townie, Eden? First of all, I never said that. I have him as not a lynch today, not "so townie." You obviously aren't even reading my filter, so let me quote the relevant part for you: On February 25 2015 12:50 Eden1892 wrote: It is a low-quality but very sincere read IMO. I think it is a pretty townie thought process, cause I know when I'm town I'm looking for stuff like that, and as mafia I'm looking not to hand out bad townreads that I might want to walk back later. If they're partners then that goes away, but I think Damdred is town, so I'm not really putting any weight on the possibility | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:51 WaveofShadow wrote: Eden you're welcome to toss your vote in the shitter by voting for me today, just know how it makes you look. Your choice, buddeh. It's already on you and I am getting you lynched today Damdred, Kelsier, Artanis, you guys need to look at this. yamato and Wave aren't even trying to figure this game out. Their arguments are fucking awful. We need to lynch one of them, I feel best about Wave but I'll take either. | ||
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