EPT[M][N]Hammertime Mafia - Page 14
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
This is going to be real annoying. I called your reasoning wrong and you figured out why. I never really called you mafia yet because all I have on you is giving a bullshit townread that might as well be a townie that didn't doublecheck his facts. Shit happens. And now we've got you suddenly posting super drunk (way more than before the pressure started) to the point that everyone will read this and think about if this is legit or just way over the top... and that's a stupid thing to argue about... especially if I have to fight confirmation bias myself because I already thought your early oneline inbetween sounded fake As an example: I don't like the fact that I had to be the one to point out that you never doublechecked your facts either. liancourt only realized that after I asked you what the popular opinions were GB supposedly went against and pointing out again that the timestamps don't match the story. I only checked that because he was pressuring you but he never bothered to himself either. And I'm the laziest fuck around... It's 3 hours into the game. I like being open. What I've done so far I wouldn't even call reads but rather stating things that I find odd for some reason or another to get discussion going. I want them explained and I have people to talk about actual stuff like that rather than having people talk about how likely it is someone actually was drunk all along. So calm down a little and let's see what happens tomorrow. If I get enough of these small things that I'm convinced it no longer might just be coincidence I'll call you or him mafia and you'll notice that. So far I'm just calling your argument wrong. | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
On January 26 2015 11:55 GlowingBear wrote: Nope, read the thread and player list please. Or you can just read my mind note on him, but you'll be spoiled. I think you're scum, so your "read" on him doesn't matter to me | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
He says he scumread me for being different than before but last game we played I was mafia. How is his reason making sense? And I even explain how I was different. Dont ignore this please. I will come back to it if people do until they stop. This is a good point. liancourt is just looking for excuse to scumread me with that read | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On January 26 2015 12:07 Eden1892 wrote: I mean the liancourt thing though He says he scumread me for being different than before but last game we played I was mafia. How is his reason making sense? And I even explain how I was different. Dont ignore this please. I will come back to it if people do until they stop. This is a good point. liancourt is just looking for excuse to scumread me with that read This Gatorade was good, you can make sense out of things and type correctly very quickly huh? | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Now I'm really going to sleep | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 26 2015 12:11 GlowingBear wrote: This Gatorade was good, you can make sense out of things and type correctly very quickly huh? No. I type very slow now that I have laptop and can try to clean up post. Although I am also coming down I think | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Can you please review my liancourt thing before you go | ||
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liancourt
1563 Posts
On January 26 2015 11:46 GlowingBear wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I ROFL'D WITH THIS No because you've played imperial mafia very well and you were town. I actually disagree that you looked that townie in that game but you got shot night1 meh. This. I co modded this game and i know eden can play well. I dont know what he is doing right now. He isnt trying to find scum and is omgusing me. I cant get any coherent reads from him. Very strange. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Anyway I am back and I ?hope? of sound mind and judgment. I feel like my liancourt read was still pretty coherent. Maybe not in execu-- no, definitely not in execution, but at least in the logic. Let me try to explain it with a little more clarity of mind. My play style was different from both games he's seen from me, and I was mafia in one and town in the other. At the very least he's obscuring the truth by citing Imperial as the inspiration for his read without making any mention of the fact that my play is different from the time he saw me play mafiasided. I feel like a townie would make mention of this and try to give the other player a fair shake instead of simply going "different from this town game therefore mafia!" while ignoring the equally-important "different from this mafia game therefore ???" I also kinda felt like it was a cheap shot trying this kind of obscurantist read while I wasn't quite at full mental capacity, but to be fair it's not his fault that I decided to try new alcohol right before he gave his reads. Idk maybe it's unfair to hold that to him, but I felt like it was more sinister than a misunderstanding or error. I'm gonna go reread but off the top of my head, I have the impression that Toad was town for a particular sequence of decisions: (1) intro post kickstarting discussion into (2) repeated attempts to question/probe other players for their positions while (3) demanding more scrutiny onto himself from other players. Mafia can emulate (1) just fine and regularly do (which is why I just called him a chill dude instead of something alignment-indicative), mafia have a harder time with (2) and especially with (3) - (2) because they struggle to get into a townie mindset and ask questions that make sense / are going somewhere (although it's not a huge struggle, it still requires effort, which is a harder threshold to achieve than you'd think), and (3) because they don't know whether or not they're actually being suspicious/not doing enough to be townread, and so daring people not to townread them so hard/so quickly can come off as tone-deaf with regard to how much a townie should suspect someone and backfire badly. (Imagine the sequence: "Why don't you suspect me?" "Why should I?" "...shouldn't you?" It would clearly indicate a guilty conscience on the part of the first speaker, which wouldn't automatically exist with a townie. Naturally it would never be that obvious, but you get the idea behind it.) None of this is to say that he strictly speaking couldn't do any of what he's done as mafia, but that I think it would be far more likely for him to do it as town. So he's town. I also feel like GlowingBear was townie but I don't remember why. Maybe I'll know when I reread. Robik is suspicious to me because I feel like he's not really been very genuine with his posts. I'll reread to see if I'm right about this, but I remember his post about why he voted for HTS, and his post against GB, and both of them seemed illegit. The HTS thing was probably a joke so eh, but he says "get rekt mafia scum" or whatever when arguing for a kill on GB and it's just like... no one says this. Not even Robik says this. C'mon man. I forgot Onegu even posted so we could kill him too. Palmar as well until he posts | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Anybody here? I'm a little annoyed that everyone was playing while I was off somewhere else and now I'm here and no one else is. :/ | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + you're also entitled to be wrong | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
Toad is being thread mayor town for now. Robik also most likely town, stupid for scum to come in and drop a huge dump in thread. Eden no idea I can't read drunk people with a buzz myself. Liancort mentions me and palmar but not VE. That's fairly suspicious to me. The chick hasn't posted much worthwhile either, but that face palm was hella funny. Palmar VE I miss you ok that is all I can think of for now Goodnight | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
General sketch of where I stand as of when I went to bed, which was page 9, though I skimmed the rest: Town: Toad - posts are generally well thought out, and he's evaluating thoroughly without overexplaining from what I can tell. Leaning Town Liancourt - thoughts are more fleshed out (at least than they were in Void) and I can follow where he's going for now. Null: Onegu/VE/Robik - came in mainly for intros, though Onegu checked a few things, I see Onegu has a list post above, but will need to see more from him before I can move him anywhere. I noticed Robik voted me, but I see it was mainly a troll vote from what I could tell. Null - Palmar, as far as I can tell, yet to post TBD/under review - Eden - so far he looks good but I see at least one is scumreading him based on meta. The lurkiness comments appear to be trolling to me. At face value, he's town, but I may need to check his scum game from NYE Party and see if there are any parallels. Scum - GlowingBear (massive case to follow) | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
He might have that big shiny post he's using to take notes, but are those notes informative or misleading? There is a difference between trying to win the game, and trying to win the game as town. Upon review, I feel there are several areas where he's taking things out of context. Looked at his read on Onegu. Several problems with it (both 1st and 2nd mindnotes): On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote: 2. Onegu + Show Spoiler + I don't like this post + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=6#102 This actually struck me as a reactionary post. This reaction is actually null as it could have come from either alignment. The other problem is that looking at Onegu's entire filter, his intention may not have been to analyse data, as he even said he was off to watch the pro bowl. If he didn't contribute much/return soon at that point enough a scumread would be in order. But now? Too early. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:I also don't like this post of his + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#127 because he just says to me that the vote is horrible and that the opening is null. See, he is just commenting: he doesn't say why that post can come from both alignments, he doesn't try to understand my reasoning why reading Toad as scum and he doesn't have any conclusion on my attitude. He just... comments. This is patently false. On page 7 of the thread, Onegu has two comments directly after this post (which GB clearly ignored) as follows: On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote: Wait is it a lynch vote or a mayor vote? On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote: I'm confused... These quotes indicate that Onegu is at least trying to understand the reasoning, and he certainly cannot make a conclusion when he's trying to figure out which type of vote it was. That's completely unreasonable. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:Again, Onegu just comments with a single "lol" + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#139. This is bad. Null at best, reactionary, and could have come from either alignment. Saying this is bad? I mean, GB doesn't even say why "this is bad" in his notes. Second let's approach GB's read on me. This may sound OMGUS-y however, I will take another PBPA on where the faults are and where again he's taking things out of context. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote: 9. Half the Sky + Show Spoiler + I hate this post + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=5#98 The biggest issue here (and Liancourt has already called him out on it I see) is that I had already disclaimed my read as a weak read based on one post AND it was in direct response to a question from Toad. GB attempts to paint this as a general townread however, and even worse over, COMPARES THIS TO THE MORE BROAD GAMEPLAY OF ARTANIS AND ALAKASLAM, WHICH -- UH HELLO -- ARE GOING TO BE BASED OFF MORE THAN ONE POST. (Furthermore I have never played with Artanis in any game, but that's besides the point.) Basically he's comparing apples to oranges here. It's one thing for GB to say my read is inaccurate, and that wouldn't be cause to scumread him, but it's the apples to oranges comparison that makes this read particularly poor and reveals the likely intention behind it. Now to the second part of GB's read on me, and why it is misleading. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote: INCONSISTENCY ALERT!!!! Say everyone but lian is leaning town here + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#140 but still haven't tried to figure out lian's alignment by pushing him yet. BUT thinks my entrance is horrible and puts suspicions on me here + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#125 Where did those suspicions go? Weird. To figure out whether I'm pushing someone, that would take evaluating my filter and the posts in the thread surrounding this post. If a potential scumread (in my case, Lian) answers a question, then my concern would be considered resolved. On page 8, not only does Lian answer my initial question but I actually DO followup and GB has completely ignored this. He wouldn't have missed it comparing my original post and looking for pushes, which has me conclude that his read is intentionally misleading. The other problem with his second part again, is twofold: 1) If you suspect a scumread and that scumread is in the thread with you, the townie thing to do would be to interact with that person (in this case GB should have asked why I thought his first post was a townread) and resolve the issue before concluding a scumread. He doesn't do this with me, but... 2) The irony is that when I question GB's entrance, I DO interact with him and give him the chance to explain himself. On January 26 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: My interpretation of his post is just the opposite of yours, which is why I'm confused now that I know you are voting him for lynch. On January 26 2015 08:54 Half the Sky wrote: Can either of you or GB explain why Toad is mafia? Because quite frankly I don't, and I've not played with him before, so I have no memos on meta here. From pages 6-8 we (Onegu and myself) question whether it's a joke or lynch followed by these questions. The irony is that GB removed the vote and that he was joking. That should have answered where those suspicions went. ------------------------------------------------------ Finally if you look, you will see GB having FOUR scumreads. Note that there are only two people in this game that can be scum. The other issue is that this is an instant lynch game, and where there'd be some re-evaluation of these if votes pile on someone at any given point in this day phase. This gives credence to the theory that GB is stretching some reads so that he can cover himself if he needs to hammer anyone on that list. If he's scum, it wouldn't matter to him who he could hammer, just that someone on that list IS hammered so it would be an attempt at read progression, regardless of how poor, controversial or out of context the read is. I have noticed reads on Eden, Lian and Robik. The one on Lian is fair, Eden appears to be meta, so I cannot pass judgement on the Eden read until I look more closely at him. Robik appears to be trolling and I could go either way with a null or a scum read depending on how you interpret Robik's behaviour. (Disclaimer: I have never played with Robik, so I am disregarding meta.) But overall, this looks like a scum GB looking to hedge his bets given the game's setup. And as such, that's where I'll park my vote at this time. ##unvote ##vote GlowingBear | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 Massive note/"giant shiny posts" should be examined for inaccuracies or being misleading 2 The game setup needs to be considered given the list of scumreads (instant lynch) 3 GB has taken several points out of context on two reads which are cause for concern given #2. I try to examine how a true townie would have examined the information. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Robik is mafia ##Vote: Robik | ||
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