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On January 28 2015 04:22 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2015 04:20 Half the Sky wrote:
If GB somehow isn't mafia, this would have to mean Palmar AND Onegu ARE scum.
Because Robik and I were ALREADY on him. But Onegu was NOT sold and thought GB was martyring so we cannot make that association. I'm not following your conclusion here, Onegu not hammering town!GB and defending him instead is an odd decision to make if Onegu is mafia. GB gift-wrapped himself to be lynched there, Onegu could have just been like "lol policy vote martyrs" and no one would really have batted an eye. If GB is town then I think Onegu has to be town too.
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I still vaguely think it could be Robik. Someone tell me why he's town
I still just remember him being loud about killing GB who's town and as soon as that stalled out he afk'd. And that maybe-slip about win con still sticks in my craw.
I don't think I'm voting him today but my lynch pool is shrinking rapidly and he's not a reason why
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I also want to hear VE's reasoning for killing liancourt
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Aaaaaaaaand I want liancourt and Toad to give reads on:
- Robik
- Palmar
- GB
- VE
- Each other
And I think that does it
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Actually Robik should give reads too. So instead, lian, Toad and Robik reads on:
- Each other
- Palmar
- GB
- VE
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Why the fuck do I have 11p filter d1. Fuck this shit.
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Catch up quicker, times have changed. GB and Palmar are town still
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On January 28 2015 12:07 IAmRobik wrote:
Eden and Palmar:
I just read pg 50 and am utterly baffled at how you two are analyzing what GB said. He had absolutely no reason to fear being lynched in that spot as mafia and his explanation is total horseshit. "think about the vote" means nothing. LITERALLY NOTHING. You gave him 11 hours to fabricate a reason for the self-vote when it was obvious he was fucking conceding as mafia. Then he comes back with an explataion that is such utter horseshit that I'm amazed that you actually consider it. Am I wrong about you? Are you Adam Sandler from the Waterboy? "I self voted because I knew that mafia wouldn't hammer me" NO SHIT. HE VOTED TO MAKE IT 3 VOTES ON HIM. TOWN IS A BUNCH OF PUSSIES AND ABSOLUTELY NEVER EVER EVER hammer in that spot. It just doesn't hammer. And if someone votes him (like palmar did), he can just unvote mere minutes later. I'm literally blown away by the stupidity in this thread from people whose play I actually respect.
I don't know if I can even keep reading what happens from pg 51-53 because my hands are shaking that's how mad I am
He got to L-1 with other people going "yeah I could lynch GB." What part of that wouldn't be reason to fear being lynched? I don't follow you.
I do not understand why you're so mad either. What's wrong? There's plenty of time to kill him if you're right and convincing.
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On January 28 2015 12:36 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2015 12:27 liancourt wrote:
i'm looking at pg 45 and the vote analysis is just...meh it's like total wifom. To bus or not to bus....to hammer town as mafia...having 2 mafia on town pre emptively...it's a really wide specualtion with so many different opinions. Unless someone actually hammers and flips this thing we're doing on pg 45...seems like a good way to make a discussion go in circles. How can you keep making posts that say absolutely nothing with almost all of your posts?
a+
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On January 28 2015 12:41 liancourt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2015 07:53 Eden1892 wrote:
OK, so back to it. I think GlowingBear is town, because:
(a) His lynch has been way too easy. We could have had him already several times if we'd wanted it, and I think if this weren't IML he would have been lynched by now.
(b) I'm inclined to believe him when he says he had a plan with his self-voting. I don't know what the plan is, and he's gonna have to explain it or get lynched, but pending a reasonable-sounding explanation, I'll believe that he's town.
From there I'm gonna go look at the other players. I'm town and I feel pretty strongly that Half the Sky is as well.
The first player I'm looking at is Onegu, because like I said before, if GlowingBear is town, then Onegu is town as well. I explained this early on p46, feel free to look back and see. Onegu is town.
I have a bad feeling about both Robik and Palmar. Robik has been very loud and animated about lynching GlowingBear, who I believe now to be town, and has done very little - nothing noteworthy enough for me to remember, anyway - outside of talking about killing GlowingBear. And from what I recall his original reasoning wasn't very good. Furthermore, I really didn't like the "playing to wincon" part of his accusation against GB. As I noted before, the only way Robik can accuse GB of not playing to win con as confidently as he did is if he knows GB is town, because mafia self-hammering can absolutely be part of the mafia win con (whereas town self-hammering never is part of town win con). Perhaps I'm getting greedy; I don't really believe in "scumslips." But I kinda think this was one.
Palmar, on the other hand, I feel more confident is mafia. I noted on p47 that Palmar seemed like a slightly more exaggerated version of himself in this game; he seemed to be more aggressively trolly/apathetic to start the day and then more aggressively active/ostensibly-helpful once that stopped. In my (limited) experience with Palmar as town, he tends to ease his way into a game; there's very little pushing to the degree he's done here, and his warmup process is slower and smoother. He doesn't go from 0 to 90 fucks given like he has here; it's more of a steady press on the give-a-fuck accelerator. It feels like he dropped a brick on the accelerator this game, like he was trying to make sure no one could question that he was being active and involved now.
Then there's his vote for GlowingBear... HTS already noted it. It's a policy vote, not a vote for mafia. The problem is that it's a policy vote based on GB martyring that's stayed on GB after GB retracted his self-vote. Policy votes are meant to be done to discourage the behavior triggering the policy vote. For them to be effective, then, there must be an incentive to revoke the behavior - a revoked vote in exchange. Palmar hasn't met GB halfway. If he really cares about the policy being effective, why is he not retracting his vote? On the other hand, if Palmar was just looking for a nice-sounding reason to put a vote down on GB (L-1 no less) and walk away, it makes perfect sense.
Toad and VE are still in my null pile; I don't see myself pursuing either of them as lynches today. liancourt, I still think is probably town because I can put myself in what I project to be his shoes and make sense of it from a townie POV.
##UNVOTE: Onegu
##VOTE: Palmar eden eden eden...what are you doing man...i disagree with practically everything in this post because this is based on vote analysis. Am I correct in understanding that this is all based on gb self voting and him not being hammered and etc. The thinking behind if gb = town ergo onegu = town...i don't know how you come to this conclusion. If this equation makes sense to you then certainly if gb = scum ergo onegu = scum will make sense to you also. Yes? I don't understand how this post came about.
Why did you quote this big post with multiple reads in it, dismiss all of it as being about vote analysis when it isn't, and then pick at one point out of these and act like I didn't explain it when I explicitly said "go read on p46 where I explained this" in the post??
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Starting to agree with Onegu tbh. liancourt getting 3 strikes right now:
- I don't get where he's coming from on a lot of his posts and the thinking behind them seems lazy/poorly developed. Unfortunately, and I don't mean this insultingly, but I don't know if he's a better town player than to play like this.
- He's in my POE pile.
- His only targets have been people who suspected him at some point. Combined with me not understanding his reads and I get this vague sense he's just posting to post, like Onegu said.
It's weird 'cause he asks GB how his reads have developed, which is a decent question to ask if you're looking for mafia, but I feel like he would totally fail that question himself because so much of his suspecting people is omgus.
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Also these catchup posts are brutal. Most of them don't seem to have any coherent direction to them.
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ugh please make it stop
this is like watching sandpaper scratch a chalkboard drying
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liancourt: Why are you responding to things that happened hours after the fact seemingly at random with virtually no followup questions to the players whose posts you're addressing?
Specific to me, why do you repeatedly criticize my logic on GB/Onegu without actually (a) asking me about my logic, (b) posting your reasons for disagreeing with my logic or even (c) acknowledging at all that you've actually seen the post in which I explained my logic?
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On January 28 2015 13:45 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2015 13:41 liancourt wrote:On January 28 2015 13:10 Eden1892 wrote:
ugh please make it stop
this is like watching sandpaper scratch a chalkboard drying why are you so butt hurt? Did my ignoring you hurt your feelings so bad that you're acting childish like this? I'd like to play a game where we don't post petty insults at each other as much as the next man. I can play like a dick as I've previously shown in titanic d1 and last days of carol and nye. I've reverted to playing my original meta that I used in FFL, FFL2, and hearthstone because I actually enjoyed those games. I'm not being a dick here on purpose like i played in my latest 3 games, but why are you being a dick here? If you keep behaving like this I'll just vote myself or get replaced out. I'd actually like to play a game of wits instead a battle of dick smashing insults. Sure you can go aggressive but insulting and being bm is uncalled for. If you believe my ignoring you was bad mannered and it pissed you off I apologize, if you want to report me for ignoring you and you want to warrant a ban for it I'll take the ban. But if you want to play the game you need to get that prejudice lifted because it is doing you no good. This is my playstyle. I reread like this and comment on a post i agree on. You can scrutinize criticize saying it's a bad way to play and what not but down right insulting it like this is shallow and childish. I would prefer you refrain from doing these kind of actions in the future. Good day. I will come back tomorrow before deadline if i can wake up early enough. 3 people I'm willing to lynch today is onegu > gb > toad I don't mind you making posts one after another, but A) you aren't pushing your reads. B) your catch up posts have little to no substance C) then you just peace out This isn't town behavior, you are not trying to solve the game you are just trying to look busy.
^^This. I'm not mad like last night, I'm just annoyed because you're in the thread posting a bunch of stuff but it makes no sense to me and I can't seem to get through to you with the questions I ask to try to get it clarified. I'm not trying to get you to replace out or banned or anything like that. I'm just frustrated with what you're choosing to reply to.
Like this for example. You reply to one of my annoyed one-liners but not the question I just posed afterward, and you reply assuming I'm just trying to insult you without even acknowledging my repeated efforts to understand your POV so I'm not left going "wtf is this guy doing?"
What am I left to do here? You're posting what looks to me like idle babble, I've repeatedly asked you questions to try to understand how it isn't idle babble because I respect your ability enough to give it a fair hearing, and then you don't answer them and don't do anything. Then you come back several hours later, post more stuff that looks to me like idle babble, and the cycle repeats. I don't want to lynch you because I don't know that you're mafia, but you're making yourself incomprehensible to me. And if it's a deliberate choice to be incomprehensible -- and it's hard to believe that it's anything else, because you keep ducking my questions -- then what am I left with but lynching you?
A vital part of this game for town is being able to understand other players' perspectives, to get in their heads a bit and see why they would think what they think when they thought it. You are denying me the tools to do this. What am I supposed to do?
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On January 28 2015 14:39 Half the Sky wrote:
One thing I want to draw attention to before I go - some people here suspect Toad (someone voted him too I think???) and some suspect liancourt. Possibility of that scum team - does it make sense?
I don't like associative reads again, but since night is silent I think we need to keep on the backs of our minds...
Take a note on the interactions between those two. Lian has drawn attention to Toad's way of posting like he can't get a read on him. Is that a weak enough case where if he flips we might just leave Toad alone because he scumread him?
It's WIFOM and such but it's something to consider.
Toad has leaned towards Lian being scum but prioritised Onegu over him in each of his scum lists. Though I'm not seeing hard pushes on any of them.
Maybe it sounds crazy but I thought I'd bring the idea up since some are scumreading (or at least null leaning scum) on at least one of these.
It's not crazy, it's been bouncing around in my head for a while that they could be a viable team. I just haven't bothered with it because I'm trying to find the best lynch today and worry about it later - but since we're talking about it, no, you're more on-point than you think, iyam.
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Ugh, fuck it. This thing with liancourt is driving me up a wall. If you're town I am really sorry, I mean it. I've tilted inappropriately hard at you and it really feels bad. I feel like I've failed as a player if this is what I have to resort to doing, but I don't get your play this game so I'm lynching you. Sorry.
##VOTE: liancourt
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On January 28 2015 01:41 IAmRobik wrote:
Were you making them big plays GB with that self-vote? Was that your grandiose plan this whole time? You're a fucking genius!!!!
Oh wait, nope, you're just mafia who got scared about getting banned for playing against win-con.
robik I still need this explained. How was GB self-voting against mafia win con?
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EPT
