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On January 07 2015 01:27 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 01:18 Tubesock wrote: -Celestial-
Why is Rsoultin more scummy than Gumdrops, Trfel, Silver, and me? I get why you town ExO so hard, and HTS but not the next 3 on your list? I didn't say Rsoultin was scummy wtf. Tfrel in his pregame gave a excuse that he going to be missing most of Day 1 and I going to see how he does in the Night stage and Day 2. Silver I think she is town she gave some decent explanations for her reads and asking some questions towards ExO although she isn't here because work atm so I fine with her for now. I might be bias towards you because I feeling very guilty of lynching you on Carol but so far I got a green check on you but I guess time for tell for me. HTS opening might be weird for people who not played with her a lot but her opening is similar on how she opened on Carol and Student Mafia IV and she been asking some questions and asking people for reads. I feel people over analzyed her 2nd post as I mentioned that earlier in the thread.
Lightning, I was talking to -Celestial-.
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Lightning do you want to discuss my response to you found here:
On January 07 2015 01:23 Tubesock wrote: WarWaffle is basically a policy lynch for me.
My leading contenders for votes would be Shining, or JarJar. I like where the questioning by rsoultin and HTS are going concerning Shining and I want more from her/him. JarJar while I think is funny (not to be confused with town) I have the same problems with as I do you Lightning. JarJar has like 2 good posts and the rest is fluff. You at least are trying and posting more so that looks more towny than Jarjar.
And as far as:
On January 07 2015 01:27 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 01:18 Tubesock wrote: -Celestial-
Why is Rsoultin more scummy than Gumdrops, Trfel, Silver, and me? I get why you town ExO so hard, and HTS but not the next 3 on your list? I didn't say Rsoultin was scummy wtf. Tfrel in his pregame gave a excuse that he going to be missing most of Day 1 and I going to see how he does in the Night stage and Day 2. Silver I think she is town she gave some decent explanations for her reads and asking some questions towards ExO although she isn't here because work atm so I fine with her for now. I might be bias towards you because I feeling very guilty of lynching you on Carol but so far I got a green check on you but I guess time for tell for me. HTS opening might be weird for people who not played with her a lot but her opening is similar on how she opened on Carol and Student Mafia IV and she been asking some questions and asking people for reads. I feel people over analzyed her 2nd post as I mentioned that earlier in the thread.
I agree with what you're saying.
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On January 07 2015 01:32 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 01:23 Tubesock wrote: WarWaffle is basically a policy lynch for me.
My leading contenders for votes would be Shining, or JarJar. I like where the questioning by rsoultin and HTS are going concerning Shining and I want more from her/him. JarJar while I think is funny (not to be confused with town) I have the same problems with as I do you Lightning. JarJar has like 2 good posts and the rest is fluff. You at least are trying and posting more so that looks more towny than Jarjar. Shining is a guy but I do the questioning from HTS and rsoultin onto Shining. JarJar seems to be the lurker type of town I played with on Metal Mini Mafia where one of the players there was a posting nothing bgut songs and wouldn't give reads but yes JarJar does not a lot to be desired but I hope he steps it up today since today we are lynching someone.
Coagulation was different. The way I read his play he was posting songs in ways to answer questions. When he found something important to talk about he stopped. It's like Liancourt in Carol with his annoying spoiler comments.
JarJar is posting less (although so is EVERYONE) and so far I only see maybe 2 posts with anything in them. Although, depending on how he responds to calling me out on his suspicion of me for my "inactive" vote that may change. Hopefully, he has some good arguments or something.
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On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
I'm going to take a chance and remove my vote from there and put it on someone else. Its between WW, Shining and jarjar for me, as per my reads earlier. I agree with Tube, WW isn't the best candidate. His opening post was weak and he's said nothing since then but that isn't enough for me to lynch him at this early stage. I'd like to see more from Shining before I could put a vote down there. So I guess I'm going with jarjar for now since I have to vote for SOMEONE and frankly I really don't like his posting at all, it looks really scummy; was also the second highest read on my list so...
##Unvote
##Vote: jarjarbinks
Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 01:18 Tubesock wrote: -Celestial-
Why is Rsoultin more scummy than Gumdrops, Trfel, Silver, and me? I get why you town ExO so hard, and HTS but not the next 3 on your list? I think I'm still somewhat tainted by rsoultin's original impression on me. I really, really didn't like what appeared to be bluehunting (the reasoning for which I posted a little while back, I can quote it if you like). Though she has improved somewhat since that I'm still wary. Gumdrops I've just flat out not seen enough from to make much of a judgement call. Same with Trfel. But both of them posted something that appeared to be reasonably thought out so slight leanings towards town. Trfel also stated in advance he wouldn't be around for a bit and Gumdrops just seems awkward about posting. I can't condemn either of them to scum for that. Silver I have literally no idea about, as I posted. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts because to me it just appears to be a mix. You didn't start great which is why I leaned you towards scum, but I didn't find your opening to be as scummy as rsoultins was and you've both improved in my eyes to the point where you're both back to neutral. But since rsoultin started off with slightly more damning posts you're slightly more in the townie direction than she is.
Ah, I see our differences. I tend to disregard to some extent a person's first few posts. You appear to keep an even weighting on all of them. I do want to point out that you had 3-4 posts that were just about rsoultin's gender, or SC2 mafia or whatever. If I said them I think you would have scummed me even worse. Yet, I really only had the 1 post you didn't like, and it still pertained to the current game. But anyway, I do think you're town even if we don't agree on your town reads so much although we do agree on the scums.
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On January 07 2015 01:56 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 01:51 Tubesock wrote:On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
I'm going to take a chance and remove my vote from there and put it on someone else. Its between WW, Shining and jarjar for me, as per my reads earlier. I agree with Tube, WW isn't the best candidate. His opening post was weak and he's said nothing since then but that isn't enough for me to lynch him at this early stage. I'd like to see more from Shining before I could put a vote down there. So I guess I'm going with jarjar for now since I have to vote for SOMEONE and frankly I really don't like his posting at all, it looks really scummy; was also the second highest read on my list so...
##Unvote
##Vote: jarjarbinks
On January 07 2015 01:18 Tubesock wrote: -Celestial-
Why is Rsoultin more scummy than Gumdrops, Trfel, Silver, and me? I get why you town ExO so hard, and HTS but not the next 3 on your list? I think I'm still somewhat tainted by rsoultin's original impression on me. I really, really didn't like what appeared to be bluehunting (the reasoning for which I posted a little while back, I can quote it if you like). Though she has improved somewhat since that I'm still wary. Gumdrops I've just flat out not seen enough from to make much of a judgement call. Same with Trfel. But both of them posted something that appeared to be reasonably thought out so slight leanings towards town. Trfel also stated in advance he wouldn't be around for a bit and Gumdrops just seems awkward about posting. I can't condemn either of them to scum for that. Silver I have literally no idea about, as I posted. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts because to me it just appears to be a mix. You didn't start great which is why I leaned you towards scum, but I didn't find your opening to be as scummy as rsoultins was and you've both improved in my eyes to the point where you're both back to neutral. But since rsoultin started off with slightly more damning posts you're slightly more in the townie direction than she is. Ah, I see our differences. I tend to disregard to some extent a person's first few posts. You appear to keep an even weighting on all of them. I do want to point out that you had 3-4 posts that were just about rsoultin's gender, or SC2 mafia or whatever. If I said them I think you would have scummed me even worse. Yet, I really only had the 1 post you didn't like, and it still pertained to the current game. But anyway, I do think you're town even if we don't agree on your town reads so much although we do agree on the scums. You make a fair point; but in defence of my reads I'm trying to disregard anything that doesn't actually pertain to the game itself (so off topic stuff I don't really look at unless its ALL there is). In your case I posted earlier why I didn't like your opening post and then you disappeared kinda so I didn't have a lot to go on and at that very early point it was very suspicious to me. Since then, of course, you've posted a lot more on-topic stuff which has helped a lot. 
This is another area where we differ. I think the off topic stuff is scummy.
On January 07 2015 01:55 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote: Silver I have literally no idea about, as I posted. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts because to me it just appears to be a mix. I don't understand a couple of her reads, her progression on Waffle from a substantive part (the lurking is obvious), and I don't understand why she's scumreading Rasputin or why she isn't answering Rasputin's question, not from what I can tell anyhow. I don't know if it's because she's new or if she has something to hide.
I'm curious how she is going to vote and what reasons she cites (assuming she doesn't ninja).
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jarJar is your list scummiest to least? Also, do you really think my vote on Gumdrops is a policy lynch?
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On January 07 2015 02:12 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 02:04 Tubesock wrote:On January 07 2015 01:56 -Celestial- wrote:On January 07 2015 01:51 Tubesock wrote:On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
I'm going to take a chance and remove my vote from there and put it on someone else. Its between WW, Shining and jarjar for me, as per my reads earlier. I agree with Tube, WW isn't the best candidate. His opening post was weak and he's said nothing since then but that isn't enough for me to lynch him at this early stage. I'd like to see more from Shining before I could put a vote down there. So I guess I'm going with jarjar for now since I have to vote for SOMEONE and frankly I really don't like his posting at all, it looks really scummy; was also the second highest read on my list so...
##Unvote
##Vote: jarjarbinks
On January 07 2015 01:18 Tubesock wrote: -Celestial-
Why is Rsoultin more scummy than Gumdrops, Trfel, Silver, and me? I get why you town ExO so hard, and HTS but not the next 3 on your list? I think I'm still somewhat tainted by rsoultin's original impression on me. I really, really didn't like what appeared to be bluehunting (the reasoning for which I posted a little while back, I can quote it if you like). Though she has improved somewhat since that I'm still wary. Gumdrops I've just flat out not seen enough from to make much of a judgement call. Same with Trfel. But both of them posted something that appeared to be reasonably thought out so slight leanings towards town. Trfel also stated in advance he wouldn't be around for a bit and Gumdrops just seems awkward about posting. I can't condemn either of them to scum for that. Silver I have literally no idea about, as I posted. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts because to me it just appears to be a mix. You didn't start great which is why I leaned you towards scum, but I didn't find your opening to be as scummy as rsoultins was and you've both improved in my eyes to the point where you're both back to neutral. But since rsoultin started off with slightly more damning posts you're slightly more in the townie direction than she is. Ah, I see our differences. I tend to disregard to some extent a person's first few posts. You appear to keep an even weighting on all of them. I do want to point out that you had 3-4 posts that were just about rsoultin's gender, or SC2 mafia or whatever. If I said them I think you would have scummed me even worse. Yet, I really only had the 1 post you didn't like, and it still pertained to the current game. But anyway, I do think you're town even if we don't agree on your town reads so much although we do agree on the scums. You make a fair point; but in defence of my reads I'm trying to disregard anything that doesn't actually pertain to the game itself (so off topic stuff I don't really look at unless its ALL there is). In your case I posted earlier why I didn't like your opening post and then you disappeared kinda so I didn't have a lot to go on and at that very early point it was very suspicious to me. Since then, of course, you've posted a lot more on-topic stuff which has helped a lot.  This is another area where we differ. I think the off topic stuff is scummy. On January 07 2015 01:55 Half the Sky wrote:On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote: Silver I have literally no idea about, as I posted. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts because to me it just appears to be a mix. I don't understand a couple of her reads, her progression on Waffle from a substantive part (the lurking is obvious), and I don't understand why she's scumreading Rasputin or why she isn't answering Rasputin's question, not from what I can tell anyhow. I don't know if it's because she's new or if she has something to hide. I'm curious how she is going to vote and what reasons she cites (assuming she doesn't ninja). She didn't ninja vote she posted why she voting for WarWaffle earlier on Page 17 I think the page number was you could look through her filter by clicking a link to her filter at the OP. Also to be fair about -Celestial-'s off topic stuff someone said he looked like he played a lot of mafia so he responded that he played SC2 Mafia and I kind of brought it off topic to him so my fault there.
I said, I want to know what she is GOING to vote.
My point about -Celestial- is I think it's hypocritical to scum me for 1 post where I talk about policy or whatever and then he has 3 or 4 which have nothing to do with the game. I refuse to believe I wouldn't be scummed for that shit, but it's ok for him and the ones he was talking to. I already said I town read him so far, so clearly that means I'm not placing much weight on it in my read of him.
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I'm not sure. The WarWaffle wagon started from what I think is a pressure vote. I'm undecided if she's just piling on the most popular wagon early or not. She did say she would come back before the lynch, and I inferred she would reevaluate and go from there.
warwaffle is a really safe vote for her if she's scum.
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to Celestial
On January 05 2015 15:01 Tubesock wrote: Looks like everyone is already gone asleep.
I like that rsoultin is already building cases.
I think JarJar is pretty funny. Maybe case building also runs in the family?
Ah, I just noticed that there wasn't much if any activity in the thread when I was able to finally show up. If you look up before I /in'd this game I mentioned I couldn't really play till Tuesday. I went to a friends cabin in the woods and knew I wouldn't spend much time reading/posting. Until Tuesday that is.
I didn't think rsoultin was blue hunting. I thought it was ExO that was doing it. I'll reread to double check. I think rsoultin came right out and was case building. Which I like from her.
I thought Jarjar was making fun of rsoultin who attacked HTS for a post she made. Rsoultin said something like "you may as well said "I AM TOWN I AM TOWN". Which later Jarjar actually did. Which I thought it was teasing. So I read Jar as "funny". I then said wondered if he could build cases too. Which I would think someone would take as a null read since at that point I didn't have anything to show me he can.
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On January 07 2015 02:31 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 02:24 Tubesock wrote: I'm not sure. The WarWaffle wagon started from what I think is a pressure vote. I'm undecided if she's just piling on the most popular wagon early or not. She did say she would come back before the lynch, and I inferred she would reevaluate and go from there.
warwaffle is a really safe vote for her if she's scum. Pretty sure it was a pressure vote by rsoultin wasn't it? Because of WW's claim that he had loads of stuff and then just going silent? Everyone seems to be running away with it for some reason and I just don't know why to be honest. I don't think WW is in the clear but I really don't think its our best lynch either. I agree with the assessment that its a safe vote if she's scum. But in and of itself I don't think it says she's scum.
The WarWaffle vote from rsoultin is most definitely a pressure vote. The first sentence where I say "I'm not sure" is in response to I'm not sure what to think of Silver just yet.
I agree there are better lynches, but I also think the warwaffle votes shouldn't move until he steps up. If he dies for it, I'll certainly let him. But he is a policy vote for now. We still need like what 6 people to vote?
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JarJar....you haven't answered my question...I think others had questions too...
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For anyone out there, I think the D1 wagons are:
warwaffle (obvious since in the lead) JarJar The Shining
Anyone disagree?
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No worries. My question was do you really think my vote on Gumdrop is a policy lynch? You said a few posts back that I was now ok with inactivity votes. Seemed you were fishing to see if I was lying. I responded later with read pg 15 and you should see the answer.
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On January 07 2015 03:35 jarjarbinks wrote: I made that comment because I thought it was humorous that your post scummed (is that a word) out gumdrop for inactivity and complained about scumming people for inactivity. And you followed up with a vote on him which I thought was more funny. I thought you voted for gumdrop to make him talk and complain about inactivity. Not policy vote.
Ah. No, it was he posted and was obviously in the thread but unwilling to contribute to town. Same with Silverarte but she actually posted.
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On January 07 2015 03:38 LightningStrike wrote: JarJar please read the link I posted on this page so you can see my scum play. Notice my filter was really small and I wasn't as active and was very timid?
Why on earth would someone meta someone who has like 3 games? If you've only played 3 games, why or how on earth would anyone think your play would NOT change? Don't you think your play would IMPROVE after each game? At least until you have say a dozen under your belt? Use it for the likes of Marv or Palmar or whatever, but seriously using it on you with your 3 games?
you made me rage when you talked about meta from my ONE game. You really think I didn't sit down and think about what the fuck I did wrong? Or ask others? Why do you think I wanted to shadow the Imperial game instead of play this one???
/endrant
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HTS, I know you're waiting on some responses to your questions from others, but do you have a D1 lynch list?
I'm starting to get worried that with such little activity, and so many who still need to vote, that people are going to be doing bullshit shenanies at EoD.
Do you have lynch targets outside of Shining, JarJar, and Warwaffle?
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On January 07 2015 04:31 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay finished reading. some quick thoughts:
People seem to have the impression I was scum flipping. But I'm going to constantly be updating my thoughts as more information goes in. At the time I first questioned shining (I didn't even accuse him of being scum) there were not that many people in the thread. Since then however, shining has based his scum reads off OMGUS and even townread HTS right after scumreading her. So I think Shining has been scummy. JarJar finally posted a substantial post, which was my biggest problem with him to begin with: the fact that he was clearly reading the thread but posting complete garbage. However I don't really like his reads and then calling out 5 people as scum? It makes no sense....but not in a scummish way. JarJar gets a pass from me for today, for what I think is just bad/newbish town play. As a side note, I wanted the vigi shot on him at the time because he was relatively inactive, but unlike the other inactives he was clearly reading.
Moving on to LS however: I think my original reasoning on him still holds. He's still playing this "oh I can't accuse anybody game, I'm unsure about every scum read" game. He asks questions, but I don't think he's getting valuable information out of people. He's polite and friendly sure. The kinda guy you want to like. But mafia isn't about being liked. It's not about lynching the rude people. It's about finding and lynching the scum. I don't think LS cares about that, he cares about slipping by. I think he's going to try a fake blue-claim if he gets a lot of pressure on him.
There's my initial thoughts. There's a lot of stuff I need to look at more in depth, but after my catch-up read through I still think LS is our best lynch. Just talking a lot is not a good reason to let somebody slip by, and I highly disagree with the meta-(this is how he played town in his other game)-reads. We need to focus on this game here. If people think there is a better case than LS, please present it to me again. Or if theres a reason I should not be voting him today that I've missed. Because so far I don't see it. Totally unrelated to the game: Could somebody also please clarify who I should be calling "she". I've gotten confused in the thread, and it would bug me slightly if I'm getting it wrong.
I don't know the proper way to deal with claims. To me, LS's "I'll claim if I have to" is a fucking claim. And it really irritates me, along with the meta stuff. The only towny thing I get from him is that he appears to be unafraid to post, and answer questions (aside from the little bit of heat to make him claim threaten). So, we vote him, he's going to claim. Now we will all panic and shenany on some shitty target that isn't vetted much. That's a lot to go wrong.
I'd rather vote The Shining or jarjar.
JarJar isn't following through really. He show's up, and leaves while I'm still here waiting on a question I've asked 4 times. I'm his #2 scum and his ideal scum play so why isn't he attacking me? I'm here to dance. I'll even wear a dress and you can call me pretty, but he just leaves.
Warwaffle is the leading wagon at the moment I think. While it is for sure a pressure/policy vote we have to lynch him if he doesn't show up right?
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On January 07 2015 04:52 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 04:49 Tubesock wrote:On January 07 2015 04:31 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay finished reading. some quick thoughts:
People seem to have the impression I was scum flipping. But I'm going to constantly be updating my thoughts as more information goes in. At the time I first questioned shining (I didn't even accuse him of being scum) there were not that many people in the thread. Since then however, shining has based his scum reads off OMGUS and even townread HTS right after scumreading her. So I think Shining has been scummy. JarJar finally posted a substantial post, which was my biggest problem with him to begin with: the fact that he was clearly reading the thread but posting complete garbage. However I don't really like his reads and then calling out 5 people as scum? It makes no sense....but not in a scummish way. JarJar gets a pass from me for today, for what I think is just bad/newbish town play. As a side note, I wanted the vigi shot on him at the time because he was relatively inactive, but unlike the other inactives he was clearly reading.
Moving on to LS however: I think my original reasoning on him still holds. He's still playing this "oh I can't accuse anybody game, I'm unsure about every scum read" game. He asks questions, but I don't think he's getting valuable information out of people. He's polite and friendly sure. The kinda guy you want to like. But mafia isn't about being liked. It's not about lynching the rude people. It's about finding and lynching the scum. I don't think LS cares about that, he cares about slipping by. I think he's going to try a fake blue-claim if he gets a lot of pressure on him.
There's my initial thoughts. There's a lot of stuff I need to look at more in depth, but after my catch-up read through I still think LS is our best lynch. Just talking a lot is not a good reason to let somebody slip by, and I highly disagree with the meta-(this is how he played town in his other game)-reads. We need to focus on this game here. If people think there is a better case than LS, please present it to me again. Or if theres a reason I should not be voting him today that I've missed. Because so far I don't see it. Totally unrelated to the game: Could somebody also please clarify who I should be calling "she". I've gotten confused in the thread, and it would bug me slightly if I'm getting it wrong. I don't know the proper way to deal with claims. To me, LS's "I'll claim if I have to" is a fucking claim. And it really irritates me, along with the meta stuff. The only towny thing I get from him is that he appears to be unafraid to post, and answer questions (aside from the little bit of heat to make him claim threaten). So, we vote him, he's going to claim. Now we will all panic and shenany on some shitty target that isn't vetted much. That's a lot to go wrong. I'd rather vote The Shining or jarjar. JarJar isn't following through really. He show's up, and leaves while I'm still here waiting on a question I've asked 4 times. I'm his #2 scum and his ideal scum play so why isn't he attacking me? I'm here to dance. I'll even wear a dress and you can call me pretty, but he just leaves. Warwaffle is the leading wagon at the moment I think. While it is for sure a pressure/policy vote we have to lynch him if he doesn't show up right? Honestly I really don't like the WW lynch. It just seems...well kinda silly honestly.
It's a pressure vote. At least he finally has appeared.
So, Warwaffle, I'm your strongest read. What's my scum motivation for having one of the largest filters? Why would I bother trying to get people to talk? Who really pushed to get information from Silver, JarJar, and Gumdrops who universally appear to be deemed lurkers?
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On January 07 2015 04:59 Trfel wrote: Wait, the voting deadline is tonight? I thought it was tomorrow night....
BTW I am here and am doing a careful rereading of the thread. I will post my thoughts and my vote when I am done, with explanations of course.
Not a current Vote count but the latest with the timing to lynch.
On January 06 2015 23:35 The_Templar wrote: Day 1 Vote Count
jarjarbinks (0): ExO_ LightningStrike (2): ExO_, -Celestial- Gumdrop (1): Tubesock TheWarWaffle (1): rsoultin
Currently, LightningStrike is set to be lynched. until deadline.
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