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Nah, I mostly agreed with your case. Was just commenting on some of your analytical comments that didn't seem as solid. I'm still for voting GB if I had my preference, though that's probably obvious lol.
I did, however, want you to understand that I'd read your case, agree that he could easily be scum, while explaining why I'm not as sure of him. (tbh though, lynching Templar down the road regardless of GBs alignment is a definite possibility in my eyes. he's not playing well. i'm also concerned about oats who doesn't seem to be interested in contributing much this game. is that normal for him? he seemed more engaged in my other game with him)
People commented on some of my actual analysis, too, and I agreed with some of their corrections. I.e. nothing necessarily being all that scummy about a rage!fitting demanding GB on Day 2, lol, but I still dislike people screaming at me to do things, especially for poor or unexplained reasons.
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On December 19 2014 23:20 Vivax wrote:
What I can criticize about HF's case is that it came at a time where people were already willing to vote Templar so it didn't exactly add much novelty. You could call it a nail in the coffin but it also looks a bit like overkill, something a scum HF could have done just cause he said he would write a huge wall of text case previously, and not something we really needed.
I didn't even read it lol, Templar is an easy gut-read at this point and before, based on my previous games with him.
Sorry HF I don't think I will ever feel confident enough to call you town after my past experiences, there are these interactions with scum that suggest townie but I fully trust you'd have the means of planting them on purpose.
I've seen this sentiment multiple times in the thread. I won't argue that it's not possible, especially since I've said before that it is. My main issue with it is it pretty much makes HF a policy lynch, doesn't it? Guilty until proven innocent (by death) because no one is confident enough in reading his scum play to say he's town. (Why not a friggin' vig kill then?)
So...eh. Maybe when I've played more games with him I'll be on that train, too, dunnae.
For right now I'd prefer going after the obvious (to me) scum. The more we reveal the scum team, the easier it will be to make a good decision regarding HF. That's how I figure it, anyway. With their two NKs...getting a lynch wrong will be a huge problem. That's my take on the whole mess.
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Oh lol >< whoops. it was coding on the color.
feel free to modkill me anyway, though. I should have remembered.
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On December 19 2014 23:39 GlowingBear wrote:
Vivax
1) Saying a lack on push on a ridiculous present claim =\= having a read on the claim
2) Reevaluating reads is okay so, lol. Check timestamps.
3) I GAVE THE PRESENT TO RITOKY. HE HAD A PRESENT. There is a present with mafia.
On other topic: I thought sicklucker said he gave the present to damdred before damdred flipped??
Hrm. I thought SL had said it before the flip, too?
I know that he strongly intimated it. Cause I for sure got that impression when he first mentioned giving it to someone. Probably should filter-dive...meeeeeehh. Finding one specific post in that is gonna be a chore.
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On December 12 2014 08:22 sicklucker wrote:
Shit this is horrible I can confirm I sent dandred a present and thats probably why hes dead..
First time he mentioned sending it to Damdred was after the flip, yes.
I mean, you could figure it out, actually, given he was only townreading you and Damdred strongly and thought you had a role, then goes and says he gave it to someone he knows (lol) is town, but has no role...but it does make SL look pretty bad lol if you think Damdred was NKd and not killed by exploding present.
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I haven't been sold on the kill present theory for Damdred for a bit. It does imply that SL is scum, though, which people don't seem to like. That or that he was just highly transparent (which I can see, cause I've posted how his posts read Day 1 before to demonstrate that it wasn't really rocket science, figuring out who SL gave the present to).
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I didn't make myself clear. Not believing that Damdred received a kill present is what implies SL is scum xP So we just said the same thing.
But yeah, he's very squirrely on all these presents. I'm scum leaning on him, but I don't think today is a good day to push him, because hey uphill climb lol. He's done a good job of convincing people to generally ignore his nuttiness (myself included) so that when he is scum we don't look at him as closely as maybe we should.
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-shrugs-
Like I said, uphill climb xP
So why are you so interested in people mass-claiming? Do you really think it'll narrow things down for town that much? Seems to me we're more likely to get counter-claims (real or false) or a ton of VT claims and still be playing the same old who is lying bit, while scum can shoot into the last few roles that may or may not be able to roleblock them.
If you're arguing it's obvious who the scum would be...I refer you to your last post ^
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On December 20 2014 00:31 Holyflare wrote:
Don't you think sl's present claim made him extremely towny? The present/joyful claim. Pretty sure he's just being kept alive to troll me.
I waffle on him. It's a pretty simple thing to claim a present as mafia, give it to a town, then have them killed and say that you giving a present to town is what makes you town. So...no, I don't think that alone proves he's town. And the more people harp on it, the less convinced I get, because it seems people are trying to push an obvious fallacy.
That and his hard defense of ritoky and GB seems like he's trying to push the idea that only town can give presents to town even more. Of course, ritoky was mafia, so now it doesn't matter as much...but do you get where I'm going with this? Just in general the whole presents analysis isn't very helpful, cause it's not actually alignment indicative.
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On December 20 2014 00:34 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 00:28 rsoultin wrote:
-shrugs-
Like I said, uphill climb xP
So why are you so interested in people mass-claiming? Do you really think it'll narrow things down for town that much? Seems to me we're more likely to get counter-claims (real or false) or a ton of VT claims and still be playing the same old who is lying bit, while scum can shoot into the last few roles that may or may not be able to roleblock them.
If you're arguing it's obvious who the scum would be...I refer you to your last post ^ War roles are mason, nigella and veteran If veteran claims and gets shot, lol @ mafia If mason claims... nothing happens, it just confirms a townie. If nigella claims we lose a protection/roleblock. I'd rather know who is town and narrow targets than having the power roles. Like, with these claims, I know who I can work with and it's less 3 people I should be worried about. A lot of vt claims is okay. The thing is that mafia is probably not counter claiming any of these three power roles so we are okay. And IF mafia counterclaims and gets the power role lynched, free mafia lynch next day.
I wouldn't mind a lucky roleblock leading us to another scumbucket, personally xP Wouldn't bug me at all. I don't know. Scum probably doesn't need that many more mislynches, what with the 2 NKs. So playing 50/50 games is not to my taste. And given scum probably doesn't need many more mislynches, turning it into that could be beneficial to them, depending on how many are left.
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Eh, that was my initial take on it, too. Which is part of why I'm waffling. But very little since his Day 1 play has looked at all townie to me. The other key point is we're not talking about him acting alone as scum; we're talking about him acting as part of a team. Since everyone knows he's a loon, it wouldn't be hard to coach him into doing something typically SL, especially since several people in the thread had already noted he was acting so friggin weird for him.
Also, have you really seen him scumhunting like a mofo this game? That's also part of what makes SL, SL. Wild and crazy theories on everyone, not just focused on one person.
Note that he commented on all of Trfel's reads except the one on himself not giving many reads, then suddenly gave a few...nah, I think there's reason to suspect him, even if I'm not at all sure.
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On December 20 2014 00:44 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 00:34 GlowingBear wrote:On December 20 2014 00:28 rsoultin wrote:
-shrugs-
Like I said, uphill climb xP
So why are you so interested in people mass-claiming? Do you really think it'll narrow things down for town that much? Seems to me we're more likely to get counter-claims (real or false) or a ton of VT claims and still be playing the same old who is lying bit, while scum can shoot into the last few roles that may or may not be able to roleblock them.
If you're arguing it's obvious who the scum would be...I refer you to your last post ^ War roles are mason, nigella and veteran If veteran claims and gets shot, lol @ mafia If mason claims... nothing happens, it just confirms a townie. If nigella claims we lose a protection/roleblock. I'd rather know who is town and narrow targets than having the power roles. Like, with these claims, I know who I can work with and it's less 3 people I should be worried about. A lot of vt claims is okay. The thing is that mafia is probably not counter claiming any of these three power roles so we are okay. And IF mafia counterclaims and gets the power role lynched, free mafia lynch next day. I wouldn't mind a lucky roleblock leading us to another scumbucket, personally xP Wouldn't bug me at all. I don't know. Scum probably doesn't need that many more mislynches, what with the 2 NKs. So playing 50/50 games is not to my taste. And given scum probably doesn't need many more mislynches, turning it into that could be beneficial to them, depending on how many are left.
EBWOP:
The mass-claiming also has a weakness in that scum not counter-claiming, then killing the roles that weren't CCd, removes more players that people were certain about and leaves only the question-marks.
Do we really have so few question-marks this game to say that will help town win the game?
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Even assuming that you can't see what I'm driving at and couldn't see it before, either, GB...
Why did you try to take credit for ritoky? There was a large time gap between when ritoky claimed to have received a notification, to which you said "okay", and bats catching him in the lie. Then you didn't vote on him anyway. You not jumping on board is whatevs...but trying to claim credit reads super scummy to me.
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On December 17 2014 10:35 GlowingBear wrote:
But well, my theory that scum could have hammered HF but didn't was proven right.
If you're still scumreading me, remember that I was the one that started to ask questions about notification to ritoky. This is exactly what I was trying to achieve at that moment. That's why after his answer I asked anyone who was roleblocked day1 to claim.
Also, as holyflare quoted Vivax, LoneMeow was shot by vigi.
Proof one is that Obi said he was reading LM as mafia
Proof two is that, as only 2 kills happened, Obi was shot AND roleblocked, which is TOO accurate night actions for mafia UNLESS they realise obi was the only one scumreading LM. And as they know they didn't shoot LM night one, it was easy to know who to roleblock and kill.
Only you didn't. You asked for people to claim being roleblocked before ritoky answered, then all you said was "okay". I can find the quotes again, if you need them as proof, but now I know where I got my timing messed up...you planted it in my head.
There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that you were trying to catch ritoky out in a lie.
There is, however, evidence to indicate that you were trying to get people to claim that they were being roleblocked...which, if you knew as you claim to that they weren't receiving notifications, is role-hunting. And if you knew, as you claim, you should have called ritoky out, not simply said "okay".
So either you're lying about your purpose behind asking for people to claim because you never really knew, or you had the opportunity, knowing that ritoky was lying, to call him on it and chose not to.
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On December 20 2014 01:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Follow my logic:
Here are hosts who notifies people when they were roleblocked, independently if they have a power role or not.
Roleblocker is unlikely to hold his skill; therefore, someone could have been roleblocked.
I ask ritoky BEFORE ask people to claim being roleblocked so he doesn't get my plan
Nobody claims being roleblocked = ritoky lied.
I don't understand how do you associate receiving a notification of being roleblocked = having a power role.
Oats, come on, you know it's a horrible mafia play to counterclaim a power role because it's a 1 for 1 trade. You know this. God...
Dude, seriously?
I associate people not receiving a notification of being roleblocked, but still knowing that they have been, with having a power role. This isn't rocket science.
You didn't ask if they received notifications. You asked people from Day 1 and Day 2 to come forward if they had been roleblocked. No more, no less.
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The point is, if you meant it to be a trap that you could verify through people claiming to have been roleblocked without receiving notifications...then you have effectively outed those people in attempting to trap ritoky.
The point is, if you meant it to be a trap (i.e. knew that people didn't receive notifications) you should have been the one to call out ritoky, not bats.
The point is, claiming that you were laying a trap when I first questioned you (though you've changed your story now) means you're either trying to give yourself credit after the fact so people townread you, or you knew all along and didn't call ritoky out on it.
People either claiming or not claiming to be roleblocked isn't significant because people don't have to do what you ask them to. And in this case shouldn't.
It just falls in line with the other myriad of times you've asked people to claim -_-.
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On December 19 2014 19:36 marvellosity wrote:
It doesn't Count
GlowingBear (4): LightningStrike, rsoultin, Alakaslam, LightningStrike, Half the Sky, Xatalos
Holyflare (5): sicklucker, LightningStrike, liancourt, Vivax, Alakaslam, The_Templar, GlowingBear, Tubesock
The_Templar (5): Holyflare, Fecalfeast, Oatsmaster, Vivax, Alakaslam
Currently Holyflare is set to be lynched. 12h24m until deadline.
Okay, we're about six hours out, so I guess it's time to ask were people stand.
I'm more confident of GB as scum than Templar, but am willing to vote Templar if others don't agree with me. I've already explained why.
I'd appreciate those on GB and Templar to say where they stand on the other two lynch options, why they like one scumread over another (if they have multiple) and whether or not they'd be willing to change their votes.
It's probably time to consider consolidating.
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EBWOP:
Actually, those on HF, too. No reason to exclude anyone.
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Templar is fine by me. If y'all have a good reason for HF I'll consider it (just for the hell of it to verify his alignment is not a reason that I consider to be "good", give me a scumread).
GB, I think you're lying to me and have been through most of the game, so it's really hard for me to take anything you say at face value. You also keep switching up the timing on things. I don't know if that's faulty memory or trying to obscure the order of events, but give me a reason to trust you, please. -_- I'd actually like that, believe it or not.
I don't understand your RBing thing in the context of what actually happened, or your call not to vig shoot your top scumread simply because he could be town or the vet. Since, you know, technically any of us could be town or the vet. I know what you're telling me, but it doesn't check out. It doesn't make sense. Maybe you just don't make sense as a player, but lol...I can't help being suspicious of you ><
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Not consolidating right now, LS. Want to see what people actually think and what they'd be willing to do, first. But I agree with your point or I wouldn't have said I'm fine with Templar to begin with.
So can you tell me what you actually think please?
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EPT
