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On November 05 2014 09:53 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2014 09:45 Elvis! wrote:On November 05 2014 09:34 Grackaroni wrote:
I believed LS prior to even learning about a claim because he was eager to share his opinion despite the fact that people were burying him for writing posts that don't make sense. I could see that he was actually trying to give his opinion; it's just that his opinion was always a summary of what somebody else had posted.
I feel Mafia would try to blend more - which is why I think Immaterial would have been a better lynch. I didn't like Immaterial's initial vote and after that he wrote out a long post with no real content in it and disappeared. In that long post Immaterial seemed more interested in showing to everybody that he was thinking about the game (he included all of his thought processes for each of his reads even when they led to no conclusion whatsoever) while LS just said whatever he was thinking at the time. How can you blend in more than posting stuff other people posted? that was his thought process though. People called him out for his posts and he kept doing the same thing. Just look at the frequency he posted compared to Immaterial. He seemed eager to give his opinion while Immaterial did not.
This was his thought process is just being WIFOM. You can't know.
Keeping to do the same worthless 3-4 liners is not town behaviour.
You can't be serious and say he tried just because he had many posts, his posts were reposts and short and without any proof and like holy fuck how can you defend that.
Why are you defending him so much?
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On November 05 2014 10:28 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2014 06:19 Serejai wrote:On November 05 2014 06:18 Grackaroni wrote:
Oh I didn't even see the claim from LS. Looking for a better wagon while taking notes lol. I think inmaterial is a good lynch IS THIS BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT HIM? Please say yes. This is a townie post. A lot of his posts are quite townie really. Don't lynch this guy.
This is a trolly post. How is this alignment indicative. Why are you being so weird. Maybe we'll lynch this guy?
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I see that a post before even EoD1 happened isn't the strongest, I still was convinced. What I think of him now, see at the bottom of this post.
I don't like how you discredit my whole post to "one post at the beginning" . The post mostly wasn't even about something at the beginning, but about his reaction and lies.
My vote was on serejai since he was the guy I thought to be scum, which I thought was pretty obvious.
Also people were switching left right and center and not much before EoD people were all up for lynching him.
Didn't see a reason to vote for the others instead, since at that point I thought ok one guy is fakeclaiming and another guy is suddenly being pushed based on a not well funded push that I don't support that much.
Why would I change in that case? It didn't need many to change to what I thought was a better case.
Why am I asking why he's defending?
Since this guy flipped town now everyone is sheeping everything he has ever done.
I don't get this at all.
About LS:
Please, someone be reasonable and actually post stuff he made that wasn't null or scum.
Please, someone be reasonable and actually post more information on why he couldn't have just fakeclaimed.
At this point the only reason I see is that he might come in a weird situation in lylo if all our powerroles play well and a lot of stuff happens that isn't forced to happen.
Imagine this: He would have been scum, faceclaimed, we would have lynched someone else, everyone would have sheeped him like they did and how they are now (why wouldn't they), scum would, since town is reacting in this way, basically have a confirmed townie among their lines.
Even if people wouldn't have sheeped him as much as they are now this would be a desaster for town and really good for scum.
Why are scenarios like this less possible than the other ones. I'm not convinced at all about all the things people are saying about LS. People kept pointing out all his mistakes and scummy posts before and now he's suddenly considered a god amongst people.
I only see a lot of people that could be scum earn town cred right nowfor sheeping him and talking about how he was town, why we shouldn't have voted for him and so on.
No risk, easy town points for our opponents.
I don't have a good feeling about this.
On immaterial: Breshke, I posted my opinion about him not much before the lynch. Also:
At the moment most my reads are thrown around by the shitpile of 20 pages of EoD posts which are chaotic as fuck since people just posted impulsive and wanting to convince people, posted stuff about if detective is cop and so on. There is a lot to read and a lot fewer that has reasonable content. I'll try to go through this tomorrow and find what I think of it.
Then Chelseas actual CC: I agree it's a measure that can be done and it's ok and everything but there is no reason to pull back so late. Also you can't really fault batsnacks for not switching in these 3 minutes, since he was playing on a phone.
I have played mafia on a phone before and it's a desaster, stuff takes ages to load and post and go through pages (which were plenty). Keeping up with the time and what everyone is posting is really fuckin shit on such a device.
You did say it wasn't optimal tho so I guess it's fine. Saying you're doing it beause of shenanigans makes it kinda weird and I don't know why someone would be serious about CCing and then say it's shenanigans and confuse people in such a time but I guess that's Chelsea? Will look into him at some point, atm he's null for me.
As example the CC would also have been a really good scum strat, since it puts attention back to the first person claiming and would have made lynching him easier. Pulling back a CC only 3 minutes before the countdown seems quite the perfect time to go and say it's not real, since if he would have pulled through and the guy flips cop this looks really scummy.
Well played, Chelsea scum or weirdly played out, weird town Chelsea? I don't know at this point.
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Where are the billions of people that were here raving posts mere hours ago?
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And an actual lynch is what we're hitting for in this game. We're not hitting for trying to avoid hitting townies, we're hunting scum. I don't think you're scum by this post but your opinion on what to lynch is really strange to me.
I don't give a shit if we lynched all our power roles by the end as long as we lynch more scum by doing so. There is only 3 scum to kill, we will get a huge amount of information out of killing scum and a million more reasons to risk a lot to kill scum. We have to risk a lot to kill scum, but that's fine. I just don't think any power role can ever outweight potentially lynching scum.
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On November 05 2014 09:34 Elvis! wrote:
Anyone could just claim anything!
Obviously he was right, but I don't see anyone having any actually good information about why his claim would be correct.
I did state that I know now that was was indeed cop Breshke.
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@Grack I'm accusing all the people who defended him after his death of wanting easy towncred.
I know that you were one of the people who believed him beforehand.
As I stated I don't think your reasoning you had is valid at all, since his actions have never been townie or helped town in any way, since he never put much effort into them, making a lot of 3-4 liners is not difficult, doesn't show someone being active or trying.
So I'm accusing you less of defending him now (still a bit since you stick to your read and defended a bit more) and more of defending him in the first place. His play didn't warrant him being rated anything better than null
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On November 05 2014 12:50 Elvis! wrote:
And an actual lynch is what we're hitting for in this game. We're not hitting for trying to avoid hitting townies, we're hunting scum. I don't think you're scum by this post but your opinion on what to lynch is really strange to me.
I don't give a shit if we lynched all our power roles by the end as long as we lynch more scum by doing so. There is only 3 scum to kill, we will get a huge amount of information out of killing scum and a million more reasons to risk a lot to kill scum. We have to risk a lot to kill scum, but that's fine. I just don't think any power role can ever outweight potentially lynching scum.
EBWOP We're not hitting for trying to avoid power roles.
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My biggest problem is that I wouldn't ever believe a cop claim by a guy who has been caught lying multiple times before, lurked, had scummy posts, didn't read the thread well at all and who has already tried a lot at that point to somehow not get lynched. A claim by him very much looked like a last-ditch-effort to survive as scum. There were big cases on him and we had 7 votes on him not that long before the lynch, like a lot of people thought he was scum and then they suddenly believe him?
Why would people believe someone they think of as being scum or at most null?
In a normal situation, with a normal player, yes, maybe mislynching a not-cc'd cop is terrible and not a risk I would take.
You are right on that and also thank you for actually making a good post about it that helped me understand more why it's important Grack.
Since you (now sicklucker) emphasized how this is your first game,
(to be disregarded by everyone except sicklucker since it's unnecesarry information for you)
+ Show Spoiler + this is my second one and on my first one I only survived one day since town mislynched me for reasons they themselves called not valid afterwards, while my coach said I was playing well and acting really townie. It's not like I've had this situation before, only read a lot about mafia and in this case of LS I don't see his cop-claim being something we should trust and not a good plan for scum, see reasons above.
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@Grack read stuff about his lies on my filter (page 1-3) and look at his filter. It's not difficult to see where he contradicted himself and lied.
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I'm going off for now. Bed - here I finally come.
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[B]On November 05 2014 12:36 Elvis! wrote: Also you can't really fault batsnacks for not switching in these 3 minutes, since he was playing on a phone.
I have played mafia on a phone before and it's a desaster, stuff takes ages to load and post and go through pages (which were plenty). Keeping up with the time and what everyone is posting is really fuckin shit on such a device.
Please, if you quote me and try to point out things, quote me correctly.
Yes, he did change his vote, but as he already said, he didn't know the vote count at that time, since it's terrible finding something like this if there's like 10 posts per minute and you're on a phone.
Scumslips don't happen, don't try to force them
you keep pointing out that your list from the very start was right.
This isn't any good in mafia, since you want to be flexible and view everyone as possible scum/town, which you're not doing.
You are just relying on your list and you try hard to find andthing scummy within it .
I don't think this is a good way to play this game, especially after so much has been going on recently.
So, please also post your opinions on others AFTER this whole desaster, since there is a lot to read into.
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I don't even know about the batsnacks voting dilemma anymore.
Like I know it's difficult to keep up with a phone and I know stuff was really chaotic at the time with votes being thrown around.
I don't really think he's to blame for LS dieing since there were a lot of people who could have turned things, not only him, while some people like me didn't even have the same grasp of LS having to be saved at the time, since everyone was going ham.
I like that people are trying to figure out who new scum teams are tho, but so far it's only wild speculation. Will join in on all of this later when I have more time, gotta do some uni-work now. This will likely not be much before EoN.
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I agree with bats and Bresh here.
Why blame people who stayed on the vote etc. and not kelsier for making people change their vote back to the cop?
He is the one conceiving people here, let's blame the conceiver and not the conceived.
These posts by Serejai would make a lot of sense if he and Kelsier would be a scum team.
Kelsier making people vote on the cop, not retrieving his CC in time and having a shitty excuse, Serejai blaming people who followed him but kinda sheeping Kelsier even though his actions were easily a lot more controversial.
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Again, Immaterial is a very easy target to make a push on for Serejai and distracts from him still having almost the same opinion about everyone than he had at the beginning, even though so much has been going on.
Also as an example his list:
On November 06 2014 08:13 Serejai wrote:
Immaterial - My choice for a lynch today because of what played out last night and his general scummy behavior prior to that. I feel that we will learn the most from lynching him.
Elvis - Scum, but lynching him wouldn't really give any clues as to who the other scum are.
Batsnacks - Same as Elvis.
Fecal - Still leaning scum, but far less than I was yesterday. Immaterial has taken over his spot for me.
kush - Still leaning scum, but he's at the bottom of my list and has been AFK so much there's really no good way to read him.
Bresh - Formerly town, now I'm null on him.
sicklucker - null, but leaning slightly town. Hasn't been here long enough to really get a good read.
Kelsier - was null, now leaning scum. His fake CC last night could very easily have been a scum move. Once Lightning claimed cop and votes started moving off him, Kelsier could have really wanted the cop dead and as such used a fake CC to get votes back on Lightning. After all, Lightning was kind of bumbling around already so it wouldn't have been hard to paint him as a liar. Then, at the last minute Keslier rescinds his fake CC. Cop still gets lynched and Kelsier is cleared of any wrongdoing. As scum, this would actually have been a pretty safe play for him; he would know Lightning was telling the truth so there would be nobody to dispute his fake CC.
Superbia - With Grack gone, this is my only real town read at the moment and I'm not sure how strong it is since he's not overly active in the thread.
Sentinel - Thought he was town at first, then he started acting scummy... now I feel like he's null but leaning town, and the reason he seems scummy is because he's just a bad player.
Seems like scum wanting to look productive.
Look at each and every one of his posts.
Non are commital, non are new, none have proof and the only one that is a little bit bigger and more legit is the one at kelsier - the person he really doesn't want to lynch and keeps sheeping/ignoring in his recent posts.
Also his post on kelsier is pretty much copy-pasted from posts people have made about kelsier previously.
Mafia loves making these lists as mentioned in multiple mafia guides etc. and this is a prime example for a mafia list.
All the points are wishy-washy and there is not use for town on this list.
For now:
##Vote Serejai
Of course this vote is subject to change, a lot of people have barely posted since the EoD.
To these people: please post your opinions on:
Kelsier and his weird late CC-pullback
Serejai and his posts about who he thinks is mafia and his sheeping of Kelsier.
How much connection there is between the two.
Sicklucker and his post about it should have been him or Grack that should have been killed. A little idea about him I have that this is not coincidence and he might be mafai. only minor lean tho so far.
Kush and his hiding.
Wether or not you think Immaterial is scum.
I know it's a big list, but people haven't talked!
Let's discuss and find scum, town!
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aaaah I mixed things up sorry Breshke.
You posted about how Immaterial might not be at fault and I mistakenly put you in the wrong basket.
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agree on Breshke's last 2 posts.
Kush has been really non-posting for almost all of the game, he has barely any and as he said has a vote he didn't evne really warrant for.
Also that post by sicklucker is like wtf are you doing there randomly claiming people are scummy based on single posts.
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Where are Sentinel, Superbia, Kush, and Immaterial?
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Uhm Serejai I have made 17 posts since the lynch. Will try to post scum analysis soon. That might take some time since I wanna reconsider about everyone.
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EPT
