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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 12 2014 22:26 GMT
#680
actually, i'll do it now

##unvote
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 12 2014 23:22 GMT
#742
sticking with my gut on this one

MB still hasn't provided anything that makes me think he's not scum, and now he's avoiding modkill soooooo

DIE BEAR DIE

##vote MoonBear

@Jeff - You may have been serious about wanting to lynch wave at the beginning, but you made no real effort to get it done, so excuse me if I don't quite believe that.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 12 2014 23:37 GMT
#747
nah man, I'm comfortable leaving my vote where it is.

There was a wagon on LT, given momentum by you. There was a subsequent re-wagon on Jeff. Wanna know who gave that one momentum? You. *gasp*

If the Bear bleeds like I think he will, I'm comin' for ya buddy
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 12 2014 23:44 GMT
#753
(PS - I think MB will flip red)
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 12 2014 23:53 GMT
#766
On October 13 2014 08:49 ketchup wrote:
Still a vote on moonbear is better than removing votes from him this late into the day. I think removing votes from anyone this late helps scum more than it helps town.


precisely

could I have posted more today? sure. But I thought my read was correct, and watched the LT wagon pile up. It looked like something scum would do, I expressed my opinions on LT. Wave swinging his weight arround to get votes to go all over the place is not in town's favor right now.

I know what you were hinting at Wave. I would think MB wiser than to ask openly about how to convey his powers to people. I saw it, and still do see it, to be more about bluefishing. If I'm wrong, then sure, it's on me. But I'm sticking with my gut on this one.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 12 2014 23:54 GMT
#769
I've seen last minute switches go very poorly more times than not. I've never been a fan of them.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 12 2014 23:56 GMT
#775
On October 13 2014 08:55 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 08:55 ketchup wrote:
If he's blue, it sucks but he played badly, and nothing he did helped us. Considering he hasn't come out as blue yet and there are less than 30 minutes left, I think he is not blue.

Or he has no idea you're supposed to claim.


If he is that detached from the game, then at worst it's as bad as shooting into lurkers.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 00:01 GMT
#779
Oh look, we're no worse off for the wear
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 00:04 GMT
#782
so did you?

On October 13 2014 08:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright as I said I sincerely hope you guys are right.
I'll gladly eat the attacks I'm likely to face in the case of my being wrong because I know I won't get lynched because of it and we can move on and win.


wave pls
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 00:41 GMT
#792
On October 13 2014 09:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 09:30 ketchup wrote:
On October 13 2014 09:05 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 13 2014 09:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:
so did you?

On October 13 2014 08:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright as I said I sincerely hope you guys are right.
I'll gladly eat the attacks I'm likely to face in the case of my being wrong because I know I won't get lynched because of it and we can move on and win.


wave pls

How is that an excuse OR a justification? I just said I 'd gladly be wrong because it would mean that we lynch scum. Remember how I DIDNT think he was scum?


Let's be fair, in a game of information, scum have more. This isn't a point in your favor. Just because you think he isn't scum doesn't make you any less scum. Even I could have removed my vote, but I didn't because last minute vote changes are not a good thing as town imo. Moonbear was unhelpful, and took a lot of the day 1 attention. If he kept playing like that, there's no way he would help day 2 and onwards. It's not something I want to see as town. I have my reservations about soniv, but this post doesn't mean much to me in regards to your alignment.


It doesn't have to, I was talking to soniv who seemed to think I was making excuses same as him. Obviously that doesn't completely clear me, but at least I get that warm fuzzy feeling knowing I didn't contribute to the delinquency.


You did though. You buffered your opinion with "man I hope you guys are right". How is that any different?
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 11:38 GMT
#814
On October 13 2014 13:59 Alzadar wrote:
Hardly well-trod and not really resolved. People moved on because that was the point but now it's night and we've got time to kill.

If you want to hear a new line of thought Soniv could you explain what you meant here:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 08:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
nah man, I'm comfortable leaving my vote where it is.

There was a wagon on LT, given momentum by you. There was a subsequent re-wagon on Jeff. Wanna know who gave that one momentum? You. *gasp*

If the Bear bleeds like I think he will, I'm comin' for ya buddy


Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 08:44 jcarlsoniv wrote:
(PS - I think MB will flip red)



Explain what? I thought moonbear would flip red ("bleed red"), and that if he did, there was a strong possibility of Wave being scum as well.

Day 1, Wave swung his weight around, and he did give momentum to bandwagons when he did vote. Both bandwagons seemed determined to get the lynch away from MB, so I thought I was right. I was not.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 14:53 GMT
#817
On October 13 2014 23:46 Alzadar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 20:38 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On October 13 2014 13:59 Alzadar wrote:
Hardly well-trod and not really resolved. People moved on because that was the point but now it's night and we've got time to kill.

If you want to hear a new line of thought Soniv could you explain what you meant here:
On October 13 2014 08:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
nah man, I'm comfortable leaving my vote where it is.

There was a wagon on LT, given momentum by you. There was a subsequent re-wagon on Jeff. Wanna know who gave that one momentum? You. *gasp*

If the Bear bleeds like I think he will, I'm comin' for ya buddy


On October 13 2014 08:44 jcarlsoniv wrote:
(PS - I think MB will flip red)



Explain what? I thought moonbear would flip red ("bleed red"), and that if he did, there was a strong possibility of Wave being scum as well.

Day 1, Wave swung his weight around, and he did give momentum to bandwagons when he did vote. Both bandwagons seemed determined to get the lynch away from MB, so I thought I was right. I was not.


But when you made that post Wave still had his vote on MoonBear. Wave unvotes and calls for votes off MoonBear after you made that post (the post immediately after, so maybe it was simultaneous, but you can't have been reacting to him).


And? I'm not talking about Wave's vote on MB at all. I'm talking about him giving any semblance of momentum to anything other than MB (in this case, LT and Jeff) - just look at the voting patterns late D1. But it's a bit of a moot point right now since the bear bled green.

I don't like last minute vote switches. I made a gut call and I was incorrect, but I'm much happier to do that than to comply with Wave causing chaos at the last minute.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 15:17 GMT
#825
On October 14 2014 00:08 Cixah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2014 23:29 Requizen wrote:
Maybe it's just early for a lot of people, but this thread should not be this dead during the night. Town needs to be discussing the action for the next day and posting discussion about yesterday's failed lynching.

I have a large post coming soon, don't make me double.


Wave early in his posting, mentions his "Pre Game" strategy with Soniv in TS. I may be completely in the wrong for thinking this, but that phrase doesn't sit right with me in game with so much information being gleamed from every word. I Part of me thinks this was just the decided code on how they can mention the quickthread, but that's really loose reasoning. Most likely Paranoid, but it felt like something worth bringing up on N1.


Before the game started, we had a short discussion about how we thought certain people would play (mostly regarding the first timers). We were right about some, not so right about others.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 15:48 GMT
#831
But here's the thing wave. You took a lead in town position just because your first post was a "follow me to victory" post. You've been very aggressive yes, but you've also been pretty defensive in the face of any criticism. You were incredibly indecisive for the rest of the day, keeping your vote unplaced for longer time than I'd expect after you criticized me early game for not placing my vote. On top of that, you wanted to enact some last minute "shenannies". A scum wave would absolutely know how to manipulate a newbie town, so excuse the town for not trusting your "judgement" thus far.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 16:15 GMT
#840
On October 14 2014 01:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2014 00:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
But here's the thing wave. You took a lead in town position just because your first post was a "follow me to victory" post. You've been very aggressive yes, but you've also been pretty defensive in the face of any criticism. You were incredibly indecisive for the rest of the day, keeping your vote unplaced for longer time than I'd expect after you criticized me early game for not placing my vote. On top of that, you wanted to enact some last minute "shenannies". A scum wave would absolutely know how to manipulate a newbie town, so excuse the town for not trusting your "judgement" thus far.


And does any of the above make me scum, good sir? Time to school you as well, I think. Can you show how it's more likely that a scum Wave decided not to vote midday because he didn't want to get caught voting in a bad place rather than me having difficulty deciding? Can you show how being indecisive emulates a scum mindset? Can you show me how it's more likely that I was trying to enact last minute shenannies to somehow further scum ends rather than simply trying to get you guys off a likely town member?


I'm not saying it makes you scum. I'm saying that you shouldn't be surprised that everyone isn't just blindly following you. But maybe I'm putting too much stock in how I think a scum wave would know how to play.

Also I'd like you to show me where I criticized you for not voting....cause I can't seem to find it. Maybe you can point it out to me though.


You're right, I misremembered the below post. In my head I remembered you pushing harder to get me to vote. My mistake. + Show Spoiler +
On October 11 2014 10:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2014 10:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:
sic 'em wave

I'm curious who's around tonight

What, you're going to let me do all the work?
I doubt we'll be lynching scum if I'm the only one voting...care to join me, frand?

Oh and Jeffy's recent question reminds me of a setup detail I feel like I should mention even though it's completely unrelated to anything.
Actually now that I think about it I think I was going to include it in my intro post as a reason for people to protect the hell out of me tonight but oh well.
+ Show Spoiler +

In almost every 14-player game I have been a part of on this site, especially those with the possibility of 3P, there were 2 non-town KP on the first night. Since there is no SK this likely means scum will have a vig, 2KP/night (unlikely but possible), or there will be some sort of poisoner. I have been scum in such scenarios and I have actively misled the town before by only allowing them to consider the setup options that were wrong. Just something to consider when N1 happens.

Of course it is also entirely possible I am completely wrong about the above :D



Personally it looks to me like you're trying to throw tired old arguments at me---mafia buzzwords if you will----without thinking about them at all and assuming people will see 'Oh Wave was hypocritical about voting must be scum' and 'wave is being defensive/throwing his weight around' (I want to see how many times that phrase has come up now and who started using it actually) and look badly upon me.

This is classically known as 'shit-flinging' and it serves two scum purposes: starts fights and serves to create discord and messes with town atmosphere (with the bonus of possibly demoralizing your target---and I'm ashamed to admit it's kind of worked because of the town members who have fallen under its spell), and it possibly sets up said player for a mislynch if people are not willing to look more deeply into the accusations.

What is possible town motivation for 'shit-flinging?' Honestly, can;t think of any. A good town player would sit back and actually consider my actions from both perspectives rather than tossing open-ended suspicion at me, which is what you've been doing all game.
[/QUOTE]

I mean, you can call it shit-flinging if you want, but I'm not the only one who's been suspicious of your play thus far, obviously.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 16:16 GMT
#841
ebwop

On October 14 2014 01:15 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2014 01:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 14 2014 00:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
But here's the thing wave. You took a lead in town position just because your first post was a "follow me to victory" post. You've been very aggressive yes, but you've also been pretty defensive in the face of any criticism. You were incredibly indecisive for the rest of the day, keeping your vote unplaced for longer time than I'd expect after you criticized me early game for not placing my vote. On top of that, you wanted to enact some last minute "shenannies". A scum wave would absolutely know how to manipulate a newbie town, so excuse the town for not trusting your "judgement" thus far.


And does any of the above make me scum, good sir? Time to school you as well, I think. Can you show how it's more likely that a scum Wave decided not to vote midday because he didn't want to get caught voting in a bad place rather than me having difficulty deciding? Can you show how being indecisive emulates a scum mindset? Can you show me how it's more likely that I was trying to enact last minute shenannies to somehow further scum ends rather than simply trying to get you guys off a likely town member?


I'm not saying it makes you scum. I'm saying that you shouldn't be surprised that everyone isn't just blindly following you. But maybe I'm putting too much stock in how I think a scum wave would know how to play.

Show nested quote +
Also I'd like you to show me where I criticized you for not voting....cause I can't seem to find it. Maybe you can point it out to me though.


You're right, I misremembered the below post. In my head I remembered you pushing harder to get me to vote. My mistake.
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 11 2014 10:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2014 10:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:
sic 'em wave

I'm curious who's around tonight

What, you're going to let me do all the work?
I doubt we'll be lynching scum if I'm the only one voting...care to join me, frand?

Oh and Jeffy's recent question reminds me of a setup detail I feel like I should mention even though it's completely unrelated to anything.
Actually now that I think about it I think I was going to include it in my intro post as a reason for people to protect the hell out of me tonight but oh well.
+ Show Spoiler +

In almost every 14-player game I have been a part of on this site, especially those with the possibility of 3P, there were 2 non-town KP on the first night. Since there is no SK this likely means scum will have a vig, 2KP/night (unlikely but possible), or there will be some sort of poisoner. I have been scum in such scenarios and I have actively misled the town before by only allowing them to consider the setup options that were wrong. Just something to consider when N1 happens.

Of course it is also entirely possible I am completely wrong about the above :D



Show nested quote +
Personally it looks to me like you're trying to throw tired old arguments at me---mafia buzzwords if you will----without thinking about them at all and assuming people will see 'Oh Wave was hypocritical about voting must be scum' and 'wave is being defensive/throwing his weight around' (I want to see how many times that phrase has come up now and who started using it actually) and look badly upon me.

This is classically known as 'shit-flinging' and it serves two scum purposes: starts fights and serves to create discord and messes with town atmosphere (with the bonus of possibly demoralizing your target---and I'm ashamed to admit it's kind of worked because of the town members who have fallen under its spell), and it possibly sets up said player for a mislynch if people are not willing to look more deeply into the accusations.

What is possible town motivation for 'shit-flinging?' Honestly, can;t think of any. A good town player would sit back and actually consider my actions from both perspectives rather than tossing open-ended suspicion at me, which is what you've been doing all game.


I mean, you can call it shit-flinging if you want, but I'm not the only one who's been suspicious of your play thus far, obviously.

Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 16:38 GMT
#852
Req, don't worry too much about 6ah tonight. If he's not the IC, we'll find out tomorrow if Dandelion doesn't confirm his claim (assuming 6ah has asked him to tonight - and if he doesn't then he's an idiot).

Wave - I'm struggling to commit to a read on you because there's a conflict between what I'm observing and what makes sense.

Your play would have been very indicative of scum had MB flipped red, but he did not, and I'm trying to figure out where I should be looking now. I've decided that I'm going to table my concerns on you for a little while because looking back, hindsight suggests that you truly were trying to protect someone you thought was blue.

I'm not sure how much posting I'll get done before the end of the work day, but I'll be periodically rereading things from D1 and I'll hopefully have a more solid position before the day post.

Coma's lack of presence is getting more concerning as time goes on.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 17:06 GMT
#869
Wave, do you have a scumread? I've skimmed the last two pages of your filter and can't seem to find one (it was a quick skim cuz I have done a pitifully low amount of work today and need to stop having TL open constantly - this is a legitimate inquiry)
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 17:08 GMT
#871
actually, it's a bit early - hold onto your reads Wave, I'll be more interested in discussing it closer to deadline
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 13 2014 17:16 GMT
#881
On October 14 2014 02:14 ketchup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2014 02:11 WaveofShadow wrote:

I am assuming at this point that we're dealing with 4 scum and a 3P (hopefully just survivor) but I have seen 4 scum and 3P with KP before, and that setup really sucks for us.

Your turn, if we're putting our cards on the table.


14 player game is 4 scum??? Is that real? Can you explain please. This is a legit inquiry because I assumed 3 scum + 1 3P(with possible KP).


This is also what I've been thinking, but I don't think I've ever played in a 14 players game? And I know admittedly little about game balancing.

@Wave - right now leaning back towards Alzadar and my brain is telling me to take another look at mordek. This is before going back to reread stuff.

I'm null on owb probably for the same reason as you are.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
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