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Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 24 2014 23:48 GMT
#1340
I said SloOsh is town, and I stand by that statement.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 24 2014 23:58 GMT
#1343
You could read my other post.
A summary would be that he asked questions that are useful to town.
When others create chaos, his posts dissuade it.
He forms his own opinions.
Haven't seen anything particularly misleading/incriminating as we have seen from Mderg, VE (even though he flipped town, some of his play was less than consistent), YKZ, and Lazer (imo).
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 25 2014 00:00 GMT
#1347
And since the night is just about over:
I still think that we should be lynching into YKZ/Lazer. Koshi is now the third candidate if one of them flips town.
Please, please, please, do not forget YKZ's deplorable Day 1 play.
Lazer's bandwagoning nature is also worthy of scrutiny.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 25 2014 00:03 GMT
#1352
GG.

On June 25 2014 09:00 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2014 08:58 Release wrote:
You could read my other post.
A summary would be that he asked questions that are useful to town.
When others create chaos, his posts dissuade it.
He forms his own opinions.
Haven't seen anything particularly misleading/incriminating as we have seen from Mderg, VE (even though he flipped town, some of his play was less than consistent), YKZ, and Lazer (imo).

While this type of post are good for town, its really easy to make them as scum as well. I don't buy too much into it.

This is a summary of my other post. Artanis had trouble finding it. I'm not trying to pass this as new information, which you seem to be implying.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 25 2014 20:12 GMT
#1383
FFS his late vote was inconsequential, and I had initially thought not alignment indicative. However, under further consideration, the vote will certainly generate discussion about itself, not particularly useful information (I believe), so I see it as an impetus for increased chaos in our discussions. I think Lazer tried to brush off the vote with the few posts after his vote, and stop us from ascribing responsibility to him. However, if you believe that the vote was a well-informed decision (and I don't believe that anything says otherwise), then I have to believe that Lazer intended to cause chaos with the vote.

In addition to his vacillating nature,
##Vote Lazermonkey
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 25 2014 22:53 GMT
#1425
On June 26 2014 07:16 Chezinu wrote:
Release, I know I haven't talked to you directly all game. But I have something very important to ask you. Why do you think there is a roleblocker in this game?

Did I say something about a roleblocker?
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 25 2014 23:06 GMT
#1429
On June 26 2014 07:46 Lazermonkey wrote:
Went back and analyzed both Artanis's and GK's filter. While we can only speculate on why they got shot we do know that they got shot for a reason

People have already tried to get a grip of the GK-shot. Most people had him as townie after D1 IIRC so it makes a bit of sense to shoot him none the less. He was also suspcious of mderg. What I haven't seen someone say (and this may be because I simply missed it, CBA to look through all pages really...) is that he was pushing Release quite a bit. This makes Release look a little worse IMO.

As for Artanis's filter its kinda hard. I think he got shot simply for the fact that he was a town read for basically everyone.

He made two posts about how I may be suspicious (I don't think that constitutes "pushing ... quite a bit":
One for an "inconsistency" which I explained.
Second for a meta read comparing himself to me, which I also explained.
The post immediately after those two is one that attacks YKZ (for similar reasoning as mine), something that only I was doing.

Seems like he pushed me at first, was satisfied by my response, and then started to hunt elsewhere.

Lo and behold, another instance of the grasping at straws and casting suspicion that I mentioned earlier.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 07:35 GMT
#1447
Read the checks and my stance has not changed. Lazer/YKZ today.

Lazer, what do you think of the checks and how do they affect your reads?
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 19:52 GMT
#1482
I think he is detective, not cop? (cop implying role cop)
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 20:17 GMT
#1485
You could respond to this :
On June 26 2014 08:06 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2014 07:46 Lazermonkey wrote:
Went back and analyzed both Artanis's and GK's filter. While we can only speculate on why they got shot we do know that they got shot for a reason

People have already tried to get a grip of the GK-shot. Most people had him as townie after D1 IIRC so it makes a bit of sense to shoot him none the less. He was also suspcious of mderg. What I haven't seen someone say (and this may be because I simply missed it, CBA to look through all pages really...) is that he was pushing Release quite a bit. This makes Release look a little worse IMO.

As for Artanis's filter its kinda hard. I think he got shot simply for the fact that he was a town read for basically everyone.

He made two posts about how I may be suspicious (I don't think that constitutes "pushing ... quite a bit":
One for an "inconsistency" which I explained.
Second for a meta read comparing himself to me, which I also explained.
The post immediately after those two is one that attacks YKZ (for similar reasoning as mine), something that only I was doing.

Seems like he pushed me at first, was satisfied by my response, and then started to hunt elsewhere.

Lo and behold, another instance of the grasping at straws and casting suspicion that I mentioned earlier.


And you said this, mentioning YKZ vs Chez and Snickers in distinct groups, mentioning YKZ first aka "before" (not necessarily more town than) chez and snickers, which is what Snickers claims here and you twist his words:
On June 27 2014 03:20 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm not really sure what to say. If it is true that we have 2 investigative roles + a doctor then I'd say scum are bound to have at least 1 power role to counter act that. More likely they have 2. This is obviously a bunch of speculation but something like goon/GF/framer scumteam would seem very resonable to me, especially since it would fuck with the 2 investigative roles. Otherwise the setup would be very town favoured.

This is IF both claims are true, which isn't necessarily the case. I find Snickers fake-claiming unlikely. Partly because of what YKZ pointed out earlier and partly why would you claim to have a town read on me at this state of the game as scum? Chezinu's claim, on the other hand, could be fake. I'm still unsure of why YKZ was so sure that Chezinu was doctor this whole time so therefore I cannot really go in to far on this issue. But from my PoV it does seem fishy that he claims to have gotten a goon check on me. I can't really argue much with this since I could very well have been framed. However, I DO think it is important that we do not regard Chez as confirmed town unless we have very good reasons to.

If you lynch me, which is still likely, the fact that I flip green will obviously point towards that Snickers is in fact sane. It is, however, possible that he is insane and that I got framed but based purely on probabilty, I don't think this is the case. I would also argue that I'm a pretty bad frame target since I was very likely to get lynched no matter what, thus cops/detectives are more unlikely to check me.

So, who do I want to lynch then? Koshi. By process of elimination I know that YKZ is likely town. Chez and Snickers are likely town (and also are the guys that will get shot, thus wasting lynches on them is bad). SlOosh I dislike but his green check means that he is likely town. This leaves Release and Koshi. The fact that Koshi has been scummier in general this game makes me want to kill him over Release. But I'm obviously willing to kill anyone in order to survive at this point...


On June 27 2014 03:30 Snickers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 03:18 YouKnowZhou wrote:
On June 27 2014 03:02 Snickers wrote:
Also just thought about something interesting. I am not 100% sure about this but lets consider something. YKZ hard pushes 27nb on day one. Relatively early. Same thing day two with VE. Now day three he has not pushed anyone yet, but only six hour till deadline? His biggest move so far was defending Lazer. Looking likely those two are scum.


> claims to be cop
> doesn't know what day it is, or who has been lynched on what day

Amazingly, It's not even like he's scum for this, either. I'm sure scum would be keenly aware that it is in fact Day 4. I wish I could call Snickers scum. There just aren't words appropriate for a mafia game for me to say that would adequately define my opinion of a case against me based on the fact that D1 and D2 I mislynched 27nb and VE, and now on "D3" I'm defending LM. Like, not only is it not D3, but on D2 it was mderg that was lynched, and

oh my god I can't even deal with this guy


lol thats the first decent size mistake i made in this game. A lot of a mistake than all the people that did not even read the roles.

Anyway, day one hard pushed 27nb early

Day two was hard pushing me I guess, will look into it when I get time before the lynch.

Day three hard push ve early.

Day four defend lazer early.

And it is weird that Lazer says YKZ is town before me and chezinu.

On June 27 2014 04:01 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 03:30 Snickers wrote:
On June 27 2014 03:18 YouKnowZhou wrote:
On June 27 2014 03:02 Snickers wrote:
Also just thought about something interesting. I am not 100% sure about this but lets consider something. YKZ hard pushes 27nb on day one. Relatively early. Same thing day two with VE. Now day three he has not pushed anyone yet, but only six hour till deadline? His biggest move so far was defending Lazer. Looking likely those two are scum.


> claims to be cop
> doesn't know what day it is, or who has been lynched on what day

Amazingly, It's not even like he's scum for this, either. I'm sure scum would be keenly aware that it is in fact Day 4. I wish I could call Snickers scum. There just aren't words appropriate for a mafia game for me to say that would adequately define my opinion of a case against me based on the fact that D1 and D2 I mislynched 27nb and VE, and now on "D3" I'm defending LM. Like, not only is it not D3, but on D2 it was mderg that was lynched, and

oh my god I can't even deal with this guy


lol thats the first decent size mistake i made in this game. A lot of a mistake than all the people that did not even read the roles.

Anyway, day one hard pushed 27nb early

Day two was hard pushing me I guess, will look into it when I get time before the lynch.

Day three hard push ve early.

Day four defend lazer early.

And it is weird that Lazer says YKZ is town before me and chezinu.

I never said I thought YKZ was more town than you...



You should talk about things other than the checks because as far as we know, we have 3? town power roles and there is a good chance of GF/Framer. The checks tangentially guide us. They are not gospel.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 20:42 GMT
#1488
YKZ is mafia. His day 1 play is inexcusably stubborn/unresponsive and therefore mafia. Although he has played a useful past few days, this only delays my wanting to lynch him. It does not exculpate him and I have assumed that he was mafia throughout our discussions.

SloOsh is town for me. First 3 days were quite chaotic. When I read his filter, I find that he does not contribute to the chaos. Even though he said this:
On June 26 2014 13:01 slOosh wrote:
I was framed, you're insane. Npnp.

and peace'd out. You and YKZ are my mafia and probably his too. SloOsh just placed the simplest consistent scenario with that. Don't agree with his analysis since the accuracy of the checks are dubious (because of mafia PRs), but don't think that makes him mafia.

Koshi is the mafia candidate outside you and YKZ that would become a lynch candidate if you or YKZ flip town. His play this game has not been particularly good (and at times absolutely useless). However, I still think that his play has been more meaningful than your's.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 21:25 GMT
#1493
On June 27 2014 05:49 Snickers wrote:
Release is starting to look scummy again. Someone mentions his name, bam he's in the thread.

Because it feels like I make a post then everyone ignores it (and therefore my posts are meaningless). When someone mentions my name, they want my opinion and therefore my posts are not meaningless. Interpret that however you please.

Pretty much YKZ's D1 is what makes him scum.

Because when the thread is filled with tunneling, OMGUS, and is primarily focused on a single battle, asking questions leads us to consider other options. I agree that his passiveness is noteworthy, but even with that, I do not think that it outweighs what I perceive to be his information-gathering agenda.
+ Show Spoiler +
having said that, if he says absolutely nothing until the end of the day and you do flip town, that would make me feel that he is suspicious to similar levels as that which I felt about Snickers D2 (which in hindsight was just timing issues). Afk complete peace out is not tolerable, even more so than 48 hour dinner since YKZ actually did something prior to D2 deadline
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 21:26 GMT
#1494
Aaand since I didn't refresh before posting, the spoiler is pretty much irrelevant.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 21:35 GMT
#1496
Lazer, forget the checks. Reread YKZ day 1. How do you feel about him and why?
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 21:47 GMT
#1499
Forget the check. Stance on YKZ? (goes to everyone)
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 21:50 GMT
#1501
What about the fact that others told him that he was wrong and he still insisted that he was right?
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 21:55 GMT
#1505
Yes YKZ. It wasn't a disagreement of opinion; it was the fact that he insisted that 27nb voted because of VT claim, and when 27nb and I said it was because of the "limited information" YKZ still said it was because of the VT claim.

Pushing a confirmed town is not why I think he is mafia. It is the way in which he pushed 27nb.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 22:02 GMT
#1510
On June 27 2014 06:56 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 06:25 Release wrote:
On June 27 2014 05:49 Snickers wrote:
Release is starting to look scummy again. Someone mentions his name, bam he's in the thread.

Because it feels like I make a post then everyone ignores it (and therefore my posts are meaningless). When someone mentions my name, they want my opinion and therefore my posts are not meaningless. Interpret that however you please.

Pretty much YKZ's D1 is what makes him scum.

Because when the thread is filled with tunneling, OMGUS, and is primarily focused on a single battle, asking questions leads us to consider other options. I agree that his passiveness is noteworthy, but even with that, I do not think that it outweighs what I perceive to be his information-gathering agenda.
+ Show Spoiler +
having said that, if he says absolutely nothing until the end of the day and you do flip town, that would make me feel that he is suspicious to similar levels as that which I felt about Snickers D2 (which in hindsight was just timing issues). Afk complete peace out is not tolerable, even more so than 48 hour dinner since YKZ actually did something prior to D2 deadline

First part seems like you are justifying the fact that you aren't giving out reads in a very bad way. That is at least how I interpret it.

So basically, YKZ being wrong=>YKZ is scum. Do you really believe this logic yourself. Also, have you even considered what he has done since then?`He was the fucking dude that got mderg lynched.

Are you not reading or refusing to understand? I never said that asking questions and such was bad. It IS, however, non-commital. Its at most a sliiight town tell but mostly null.

Fair enough.

YKZ was wrong, was corrected, still insisted on his wrong reasoning.

I understand, but it doesn't actively lead town astray. Maybe I am being fooled by fake activity and I have to reread his filter, but I am doubtful. I'll revisit this after a reread.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 22:07 GMT
#1515
YKZ explain this to me:
If you claim vt at the start of the day, and someone votes for you for some uncontiguous reason, does it still count as an appropriate application of the kenpachi rule?
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
June 26 2014 23:01 GMT
#1545
On June 27 2014 07:45 YouKnowZhou wrote:
Release, you've said (link) multiple (link) times (link) over the past few days that you want to lynch one of me/lm first, then if that person flips town, lynch Koshi. Here's my question for you: If LM flips town, would you lynch me next or Koshi? What if LM flips scum? If these answers are different from each other, why? What about Koshi do you like that makes you not want to lynch him over LM?

Right now we are 7 alive, with 2 scum. If we mislynch today we go into 3-2 lylo. If you have 3 scumreads and worried you might be wrong, and that 2 of them are town and 1 scum, the order you lynch them in matters a lot.

So why are you eager to lynch me over Koshi today, but would reconsider if and only if LM flips town? I don't understand your thought process here. Please respond before the flip.

At this point, since Koshi has not returned since the Korea Belgium game, and he is probably asleep (earlier than he has been in past days), his lack of input is more harmful as compared to you who is always around the deadline. I'd probably lynch Koshi first (but of course I would have to consider his next day input).

Since the end of day 2, LM's play seems to be characteristic of try to get someone lynched (particularly SloOsh whom I thought was unreasonably thrown into his scumlist when Koshi questioned him, and when LM made his bigger post.

You have been on my scumlist since Day 1. I thought that was awful play, and I still think it is awful play to ignore everyone and just hide behind "Kenpachi rule is God"
☺
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