Normal Mini Mafia LVI - Page 2

On June 17 2014 12:12 Release wrote:
As I have said more than once now about the VT claim:
Yes she mentions it in post above her vote. Yes she says "another."
However, the fact that the sentences after that and the vote form a coherent independent sequence of events strongly suggests to me that the primary reason (and ultimately only relevant reason, otherwise we all would have seen a vote in the first post questioning the VT claim) was the "limited information." Therefore, I have reviewed my actions and statements (more than once now) and they are correct.

Yes, we have roles but if you read the OP closely, the Mafia Godfather sends his role on N1 or Night 1 which is after today. We have no reason to believe that any other role acts before Night 1. Therefore, no roles have any more information than anyone else except the mafia, who know exactly who is town, and who is mafia. AND, if you have been following closely, "limited information" was an intentional "scumslip" to solicit the use of the Kenpachi rule. However, my reasoning for the YKZ lynch is not for the utterance of "limited information" but for the actions that YKZ took afterwards.

I am not wrong. However, this is the second (or more?) time that you have claimed that I am wrong, and I have had to repeat myself (which of course will cause Artanis to give his mandatory "omg release stop rehashing" speech).

And in the bolded section (3 posts before this), the connection is not as glaring as the fact that you say "Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. " which does not make sense at all. (Again) wanting someone (YKZ) as town does not make the other player (27bn) mafia, but you say that regardless which is ridiculous.

On June 17 2014 12:44 Release wrote:
Not on day 1 and there is no point in talking about it on day 1.

I read it and it does not excuse illogical play. Regardless of 0/1/2 of 2 scum, you wish does not affect their roles. You soft retract your statement by saying it's a bad reason, but why say it in the first place if that is the case?

On June 17 2014 13:05 Release wrote:
If you read the original situation in which the information is said, the information relates to 27nb calling out 3 purported mafia and YKZ saying she has less information. It pertains to knowing who and who isn't mafia, and in this case, VT and PR are equally informed (since it is day 1). Knowing there is a pr does not in any way help call out 3 mafia. Therefore it is the same and we should stop talking about PRs.

On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:
I almost forgot about this due to the world cup

The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid.
They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this.

I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies

I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play.

So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments.
I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read.

It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you".

I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time.


Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy.

I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others.

I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him.

Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow.


##vote 27ninjabunnies

On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:
I almost forgot about this due to the world cup

The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid.
They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this.

I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies

I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play.

So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments.
I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read.

It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you".

I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time.


Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy.

I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others.

I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him.

Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow.


##vote 27ninjabunnies

On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:
I almost forgot about this due to the world cup

The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid.
They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this.

I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies

I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play.

So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments.
I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read.

It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you".

I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time.


Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy.

I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others.

I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him.

Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow.


##vote 27ninjabunnies

On June 18 2014 04:24 Lazermonkey wrote:
Mderg is just... Look through this part of his first post for example.


So his logic is something like this:
1. Since YKZ are battling each other they cannot both be scum.
2. And YKZ is probably town (for some really wierd reasoning).
3. Its possible that Bunnies is scum, points out several stuff that Bunnies that is alignment unindicative.
4. Dislikes that Bunnies says that Release is scummy but doesn't want him to be scum. This is like the only part that makes sense.

Then he proceeds to vote him. This vote is so out of place that I cannot even describe it with words. Pointing out several things that he even himself says isn't alignment indicative is just unnecessary. Yes, he said he disliked one of Bunnies posts. But he also said that he disliked Snickers and Release posting. Why vote Bunnies? Because it was the current wagon?

This shit just seem to careless to be scum. You don't see scum posting posts liek this because that's all scum care about, looking good. I'm calling bad town here.

##Unvote

On June 18 2014 08:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mderg is a terrible lynch. Why does anyone want to lynch him?

On June 19 2014 05:00 mderg wrote:

The bolded is completely wrong, reread please. I also never intended to say that the one post could be my only contribution day 1. I wasn´t sure how much time I´d have the rest of the day but I knew that I could devote some time to this gam]e.

On June 19 2014 05:02 Lazermonkey wrote:

I used to think like you.

then a took a massive amounts of misslynches to my knee.

Truth of the matter is as simple as bad play=/=scum play. You can point out a billion things that are bad for town. But unless you display how that play is a good play for scum, the play is not alignment indicative. A super easy example is lurking. Lurking is obviously bad for town. But a scum that lurks is also very likely to get noticed because of his lown number of posts. Thus its impossible to tell that someone is scum just by looking at their number of posts.


I still don't see it. Why is breaking against your principles a scum trait? If anyting, I'd say it displays a town mindset by being willing to change your standpoint and not being afraid of it.

On June 19 2014 14:09 Release wrote:

I made a case for you, Snickers. Please read the thread.

Are you talking about new information in general, or new information about YKZ? If it's YKZ (or even you), I have not presented much new information because instead of refuting my points, YKZ and you continue to dismiss or ignore my points, indicating to me that you two cannot refute my points and are therefore scum. YKZ has made less of an effort than you to do so, so he gets my vote for today, until he does something to refute my points (as I said on Day 1, which he dismissed)..

VE's disgruntledness/lurkiness is bad but not even close to as bad as the way in which YKZ, in particular, and you try to mislead the town.

Koshi also deserves a special mention for his lackadaisicalness, but like VE, not as serious of an infringement as that of YKZ and you (Snickers).

Mderg would also get a mention, but I feel increasingly much that Snickers is trying to put him in the same position as 27nb on Day 1.

The rest seem to be presenting information and ideas well so I feel that they are towny.

On June 16 2014 17:12 Release wrote:

First bold is incorrect. YKZ has been acted stubbornly incorrectly and has misrepresented information in a manner that implies that he is correct and 27nb is wrong (whereas the opposite is true).

So you essentially have no reads? I doubt anyone has any solid reads except for/against 27nb and YKZ. Weird to include an entire paragraph about null.

The above implies bad/useless town but the next paragraph changes my read completely (as it did for 27nb).

Second bold: You would prefer that YKZ be town and therefore believe that 27nb is scum? The roles have already been determined. That is a complete lack of reasoning for wanting a lynch but still being swayed? That reeks of scum trying to jump on the bandwagon.




That is a strange statement because asking for town to die to prove something is ridiculous, and is against our goal to kill mafia. However, the second part is correct. Why would you include the first part in this statement? Reeks of mafia.

Also quick note on Scientific Method: Nothing can be proven correct, but 1 counterexample demonstrates a need to change the hypothesis.




And from 27nb's perspective, I take a neutral stance on what she said. By the end of the game sounds like she was saying that she would be revealed as town when the game conclude, assuming that she would survive the entire game. As opposed to end of the day by getting a lynch of YKZ, but, at that point, not many people had taken a stance on the situation. It's passive but focussed on moving the game forward (as opposed to YKZ's comments which were designed to draw attention to himself and his survival).

-----------------------Line for separation--------------------------




@1: That was a question, separate from her vote.

@2: I'm pretty sure we don't use roles on "night 0." (check the Godfather role on the OP)

@3: Not too sure what you're asking but I can clarify: "Limited information" indicates scum because on Day 1, no one has any information except for the mafia, so assuming that YKZ is town, he should have less than or equal information to everyone else. Clearly, "limited information" implies that he has more and therefore cannot be town.
next point: The Kenpachi rule does not apply but he insisted repeatedly and incorrectly that it did apply, causing chaos in town and trying to lead a mislynch.

@4: That sounds really scummy. On day 1, blues have no information more than town so we need to keep them alive. Talking about blues can only increase that chance that mafia corrects identifies blue so talking about blue on day 1 favors mafia.

@5: "You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip."
this is incorrect. 27nb who thinks YKZ is scum does not speculate whether YKZ is blue because 27nb believes that YKZ is red. YKZ presents information as though 27nb is speculating which is the complete opposite of what is actually happening. Read the second part closely. Speculation only occurs if town is the hypothesis, which is not the case, so again, YKZ makes an incorrect statement and misleads us. 27nb's statement is not a scum slip by any stretch of the imagination.

See below:






Overall, this sounds like a soft defense of YKZ, and such a defense is untenable.\

+ Show Spoiler +