TL 'Order' LXVI Mafia

On June 11 2014 06:50 sinani206 wrote:


Mostly one-liners and wishy washy, I don't really have time right now to quote because I have a meeting at 2:50 but if he keeps this kind of useless posting up I can see a chance of him being red.

On June 12 2014 01:22 marvellosity wrote:
tempting to lynch you for being an asshole, koshi

On June 12 2014 03:36 ritoky wrote:
Idk, I don't think Koshi's suspicions of Chrom are completely unwarranted. I found this interaction very strange:



At the time, I don't feel like JAT had done anything that was alignment indicative in the slightest, so I don't really know why Chrom would ping sinani for a read on him. I just think in some regards you were baiting him.

However, sinani's response is pretty horrible imo. It reads forced, noncommittal, and not really substantive.

I think JAT was right to pounce on it and for good reason and I think he seems more town for it.

On June 12 2014 04:22 ritoky wrote:


And I didn't like your explanation.

JAT made a joke/dodged sinani's question and you have this expectation of him that he was supposed to get a strong read off of it. His response is crap, but sinani says he dodged it and has to go. Then you criticize him for not scum hunting.....the guy just said he was leaving?

On June 12 2014 06:17 Koshi wrote:

Really poofter? Really?

On June 12 2014 06:48 ritoky wrote:


Idk, I am reading the thread fairly similarly to koshi. Maybe not so much on who he thought was town in his earlier posts, but his top 2 scum reads are MZ and chrom, and I agree with both; chrom for similar reasons, MZ for somewhat meta reasons.

The response of the read by chrom is just off. He gets wayyyyyy too strong of a scum read off of nearly nothing from sinani, it just doesn't sit well at all.

And in regards to MZ, all he said in response to my freedom post (which was specifically directed at him) was "good to see ritokys town". I expected at least a murrica joke or picture in response. But moreso he just oozed town last game and I don't get those same vibes from him. Plus his posting style is much different, much more restrained. Just feels off.

On June 12 2014 07:27 ritoky wrote:


sorry, must have missed it. TMI = too much information?

as in chrom has more information than me, as in he knows whos mafia and whos town, as in he's mafia.

is that the explanation you were looking for?

On June 12 2014 07:32 ritoky wrote:


? that post was about sinani, JAT, and chrom? I was talking about how I felt Chrom baited out sinani into giving a crap read on JAT because JAT hadn't really posted in the thread much; then he disproportionately reacted to the read given by sinani and claimed a STRONG scum read from it. How any1 gets a strong read at all from sinani's early filter is beyond me. So I think he is working with some excess info.

On June 12 2014 07:35 ritoky wrote:


Your logic here is circular. I just said chrom was mafia about 30 seconds ago. I think he either knew sinani was town and was trying to get in easy points or he knew sinani was mafia and was trying to bus early, either way the scope of chrom's reaction is bs and he is probably scum.

And question it is being generous. He didn't really question it, he just claimed massive scum read.

On June 11 2014 06:49 TicaTica wrote:

Nisani und sinani be known lurkers irregardless of randed roll.

On June 12 2014 09:22 ritoky wrote:


OMGUS, the scum hunting mindset you been talking about?

Look, if you don't think that calling someone mafia for simply defending sianni (tiatica) qualifies you as having a strong read on sianni, then it is a difference of definitions. I think the proof is easily read in your filter.

On June 12 2014 09:49 ritoky wrote:


Because I feel that the case I have already made follows very easily if you view what you gave as a strong read. I think you did.

I can say it again, but it isn't going to change. I think you gave a disproportionately strong read on sianni from a pretty inconclusive response (I thought it was slightly scummy at best). In order to make said conclusion from not very much I feel you have extra information. The only people with extra information right now are mafia. Since then you've done nothing to alleviate my worries about you, you've been hard defending and OMGUSing (which is completely contrary to the scum hunting mindset you were critical of sianni for).

And how is this not the exact same thing that you were critical of sianni for?





You just did the same exact non-committal thing. "Could be red, wait and see what happens"; that's not the scum hunting mindset you were preaching.

On June 14 2014 18:08 ExO_ wrote:
I've taken the time to go back over the end of the day 1 voting, looking for things that might stick out. I think Alakaslam still might be mafia, but I'm not as convinced as I first was when I was reading on my phone. He might just be a spammy bastard.

But I think Chromatically is mafia.

At June 12 2014 13:31 Chrom votes ritoky. At this point the train on KotC is in full swing, and he's up to 9 votes. It's looking like he's going to be lynched. 2 Hours prior however, the vote count was only at 4 for KotC. So a lot of votes moved all at once. 1 hour later at June 12 2014 14:31 Chrom hops on the train.

What's interesting is Chrom's posts in this one hour block.

Before I get to the hour block, lets take a look at some of Chrom's earlier posts. His first vote on Sinani is preceded by this:


It almost seems like a sarcastic joke to me at first, to vote Sinani for such an arbitrary reason. Going from page 1-2 of his filter though, he continues to push Sinani pretty hard. Koshi notices this, and calls him Chrom out on it. Chrom clams up after this, asking Yamato for a read on himself. To me this seems like a concerned mafia. The real gold comes after that though:



Sound familiar? It seems to me he did to Sinani exactly what he said Koshi was doing to him. After this going from page 2-3 on his filter, he continues to freak out at Koshi a bit. Just like with Yamato, he asks Koshi about Koshi's read on himself. To me, it looks like Chrom is very worried about what everyone thinks about him. Regarding Koshi, he even goes on to say:



He's literally putting words into Koshi's mouth, saying that he's town. The banter with Koshi goes on for a little bit, and he starts asking for reads on Koshi. At the bottom of page 3 of his filter he says:



Followed by:



This part isn't super relevant to my case, but I'm pointing it out here in case my case turns out to be correct. Ketomai has been suspected quite a bit, and here Chrom isn't exactly defending him but he is lightly trying to divert attention off of Ketomai. He's not joining any trains of thought against Keto though.

Right before the "magic hour" I referred to earlier, we see Chrom trying to divert away from cats with:



and



That's just about all he had to say about cats, sorta in what I would call a "yeah yeah, but!" fashion. He doesn't want to say the case against cats is bad, but he doesn't want to encourage it either, and I think this post is a great way to try to push another case while acknowledging the cats case as little as possible.

So we finally get to this hour. I understand at this point the voting is nearing its end. But chrom posts 12 times, his biggest concentration of posts yet. I won't quote all 12 posts, you can eaisly find them on his filter and they're going to clog this already clogged post. From 13:31 to 14:11 he was heavily pushing ritoky, I think in a desperate attempt to get the focus off king and onto somebody else. He gave it one last effort here:



But after this point I think he and the mafia saw the writing on the wall. So after 14:11 it's damage control mode.








I think after 14:11, Chrom accepted that he was going to lose a teammate and decided that transitioning to the KotC wagon was his best move to stay alive. He never really says why he agrees with the KotC case, or anything about it really. Not even in the same ballpark as how much he said about Ritoky. Based on what I've presented here, I think we should lynch Chrom next. I'm not 100% sure, but short of being the seer I don't think there is a 100% sure in this game. Perhaps I'm naive in thinking mafia would switch an obvious mafia vote once it was determined it was unavoidable that mafia would die. But I think I'd try to do something similar if I was mafia, especially on the day 1 lynch. So that's my piece, let me know what you think. I think if you read chrom's filter since the lynching, he's pretty obviously trying to divert people from suspecting him. But for a townie, he sure is thinking an awful lot like a mafia.

##Vote Chromatically

On June 15 2014 15:50 ritoky wrote:
why did you choose to leave VayneAuthority off of your list? especially since it is focused on inactives/unproductives?

On June 15 2014 15:52 ritoky wrote:


never played with him, but what do you think of his vote on me in the vote thread without posting anything about it or a reason in the thread?

On June 15 2014 15:50 ritoky wrote:
why did you choose to leave VayneAuthority off of your list? especially since it is focused on inactives/unproductives?

On June 19 2014 03:14 justanothertownie wrote:

I would like you to prove this with examples. And I want you to tell me your opinion on those thoughts.

On June 19 2014 03:35 ritoky wrote:


what questions?

marv/JAT who should i vote on? MiF?

On June 19 2014 03:35 ritoky wrote:


what questions?

marv/JAT who should i vote on? MiF?

On June 19 2014 03:46 ritoky wrote:


i looked through your filter for the questions, didn't find them. mostly found you trying to push a meta case w/ no evidence.

on an unrelated note, you could very well be mafia. played 3 games with you, 2 you were town, 1 you were mafia. In the town games you post with conviction and use definitive sentences. in the wolf game you did a lot of "I don't know how i feel about x" or "He could be x or x". you been doin that this game.

anywayz, not making my own decision because my decision is vote chrom until he is dead 8x. no1 else wants to, and that is very frustrating. so i am going to sheep the people who i read as certainly town.

On June 19 2014 03:54 ritoky wrote:


nope, not enough time before deadline to read 27 pages or so

On June 19 2014 05:40 ritoky wrote:


i am just going to say this much:

people, including you have been pushing hard on lurkers. 3 lurkers just died, all vt. after it flips, the majority of the next targets posted by people thus far are more lurkers.

you might want to re-assess your stances on a lot of the people you just cleared.

On June 21 2014 05:13 ritoky wrote:


how would you feel if i told you that you were town?

On June 21 2014 05:16 ritoky wrote:


how would you feel if i told you that i tunneled you cuz i town read you day 1 and wanted us both to stay alive?

On June 21 2014 05:29 ritoky wrote:


well i do, so all i am gonna say is that you and 27nb aren't sippin da same cool-aid

On June 21 2014 05:57 marvellosity wrote:
there is no pretence or charade, the claim is highly likely to be true barring another alignment cop claim, and we have a redcheck.

Fin.

On June 21 2014 06:05 ritoky wrote:


could you tell me why it is such a big deal that someone basically just tjsalt ragequit? i don't think that wanting the 2 people who have opposite alignments to give reads before i give out the alignments is the worst play ever. so please explain it to me.

On June 21 2014 06:11 ritoky wrote:
w/e i honestly think you guys are being dicks about it

chrom is town, vote away

On June 21 2014 06:11 ritoky wrote:
w/e i honestly think you guys are being dicks about it

chrom is town, vote away

On June 21 2014 06:41 Rainbows wrote:
this also means chairman is probably mafia as well. why does ritoky pull this as mafia? protect buddy

On June 21 2014 06:43 ritoky wrote:


are you rescinding or godfather?

On June 21 2014 06:47 ritoky wrote:


well, you wait until i post i have to go to counterclaim anything, which is shady.

rainbows comes in and seems to know what's about to happen before it does, also shady.

and you give no n1 check, also shady.

so i am asking, are you rescinding or godfather?

On June 21 2014 07:04 ritoky wrote:
i am gonna be mad as a bat if the mafia ends up being

chrom (GF), rainbows, 27nb

cuz then it was just lack of confidence in my reads at that point.

On June 21 2014 07:07 ExO_ wrote:
Chrome being Godfather is the only way ritoky would be correct and have everything still make sense.

On June 21 2014 07:14 ritoky wrote:


because if they lynch 2 townies in a row they win. he can get a ML on me, then its basically LYLO or MYLO the rest of the way. as opposed to letting her go and then you have to do a lot more.

but yeah its probably the simpler world and he is what he claims.

On June 21 2014 07:25 ritoky wrote:


you're voting on me, and this post seems to imply that you know i am VT. why do you know that?

it's not as bad as you say it is; although it is bad a not really thought through. like i said, made the claim cuz the game was stale, dead, i wasn't having fun, had a strong read, and YOLO. get over it and try to figure out the game instead of complaining.

On June 21 2014 10:34 ritoky wrote:
also, ticatica. i agree with everything you said. you give a well thought through analysis of why the play was bad.

i don't believe any of the stuff in your post really points to any reason why i am mafia though. bad play doesn't equal mafia.

anywayz, like i said; when i flip VT, 27nb is like 100% mafia here.

On June 21 2014 10:38 ritoky wrote:
and so people can stop trying to interpret my thought process, i will tell you it:

step 1) let's read mafia thread
step 2) nothing really interesting is going on here...it's the same people pushing the same exact reads on the same lurkers; and they refuse to doubt eachother
step 3) i am bored, maybe i should liven this game up
step 4) well i am pretty sure bunnies is mafia, maybe i should fake claim a red on her
step 5) hey look chrom is here, maybe i should use my going hard on him as an excuse to keep a green check alive
step 6) come out as cop too hard before getting reactions
step 7) cascade into flames
step 8) rescind claim
step 9) probably get lynched for bad play

On June 21 2014 10:50 ritoky wrote:


Well the play was less so about green checking chrom, he was honestly just an excuse (it just turns out that part exploded); it was mostly about faking a red check on 27nb who had ascended to my top scum read pretty recently. So mainly it was a play to get a solid reaction out of her for the fake red check tbh. If she reacted well, I probably would have rescinded the claim. If she reacted poorly I am not sure if I would have rescinded the claim until the night phase. Hadn't really thought that far ahead.

Just so happened that everyone was a giant dick about me outing everything immediately, and the fact that I mixed up the order of how I should have done things (newb mistake), that I couldn't get the response I wanted. That said, she ended up giving a terrible response anywayz, and I am regretting rescinding. I shoulda just stuck it out to get her lynched.

On June 21 2014 10:53 ritoky wrote:


27nb posted like an hour or 2 before I made the claim the she was around and babysitting (might have had times wrong) so I thought she was here.

Re step 5: people were going to push for checks either before or after the reaction, it is not uncommon (at least where I come from) to half-heartedly tunnel on your n1 green check as a cop. plus chrom was in the thread so he could give response to the situation.

On June 21 2014 11:09 ritoky wrote:


If you claim cop, people will ask for checks. They always do, even if you fake claim and rescind; they always ask for every check. So you need to have checks thought up. So I thought up a basic reason for a green check on chrom, mostly because he was here and I wanted to interact with him (since I had him as scum and every1 i town read had him as town).

If you're looking for a good answer, you're not in luck. It was bad play.

On June 21 2014 11:48 batsnacks wrote:


Why not vote marv with me? At least consider it as an alternative to your plan.

On June 21 2014 11:52 Chairman Ray wrote:


I feel that if you are going to vote marv, SnB needs to flip first. The vote on day 1 was between SnB and a mafia. Would be extremely weird for marv to take the lynch off a town and onto his mafia buddy, costing them 1 kp. I can see him doing it if SnB was mafia though.

On June 21 2014 11:58 batsnacks wrote:


I'm not saying you're wrong but lets be real. No one is going to switch off of ritoky because it's the easy answer and people want the easy answer. Ritoky made a mistake and now everyone gets to punish him for it. That's what people like doing. I don't think the easy answer is the correct one this time so screw the majority I'm voting marv for now.

On June 21 2014 12:14 Rainbows wrote:
im cop. i checked myself. i came back mafia. i must be insane cop. i also checked amiko. amiko came back green. host is mafia. lynch amiko.

On June 21 2014 12:36 ritoky wrote:
question for anyone and everyone who wants to answer: when i flip VT, who do you think looked the worst amidst all of this? why?

if you don't believe i am VT, then replace "when i flip" with "in the world that i flip"

On June 21 2014 12:36 ritoky wrote:
question for anyone and everyone who wants to answer: when i flip VT, who do you think looked the worst amidst all of this? why?

if you don't believe i am VT, then replace "when i flip" with "in the world that i flip"

On June 21 2014 12:36 ritoky wrote:
question for anyone and everyone who wants to answer: when i flip VT, who do you think looked the worst amidst all of this? why?

if you don't believe i am VT, then replace "when i flip" with "in the world that i flip"

On June 21 2014 13:20 ritoky wrote:


you can't squeeze 1 coherent thought or read out of an explosion of activity?

or you don't want to?

On June 21 2014 13:47 ritoky wrote:


I started reading your filter cuz you literally have left nearly no impression on me at all this game.

I came to a couple realizations:
#1) you still leave no impression on me...and i am beginning to wonder if that's by design?
#2) you've given very few reads
#3) what you previously said is directly contrary to the advice you were giving town earlier.

so have you adopted the not playing the game mentality?

On June 21 2014 14:03 ritoky wrote:
i sincerely hope obiwan is mafia because that is a piss poor attitude for a town to have.

can understand bunnies though, i have fake red checked her in 2 of the 4 games we have played together

On June 21 2014 14:06 Chairman Ray wrote:


have either of them worked?

On June 21 2014 14:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:

Must have been, cause i never got a message.

But anyway, it doesnt matter if I was recuited or not. You fake claimed red on me when i was town.

Both times.

And this time.

Your read on me is awful.

On June 21 2014 14:24 ritoky wrote:


i've never not rolled town on TL forums. not a signle time.

and she's not giving credit to my read on her, it was dead on in 2/3 games. to be determined after this game if it's 75% or 50%.

On June 21 2014 14:46 batsnacks wrote:


Look at the self-focus in this post. There's so much attention to the fact that he said she was mafia. There's been a lot of that in bunnies' posts, like with TicaTica.

On June 21 2014 15:12 ObiWanShinobi wrote:


who votes off their townreads

honestly

On June 21 2014 15:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote:


day 2.

and also your "lynching for information" post in regards to ritoky was so unbelievably bad that you should die for that alone.

On June 22 2014 01:35 Holyflare wrote:
I still don't see him say you were mafia in golden sun????????? He says you reacted one way in golden sun as town but in this game you act really defensive like you've never seen him do it before

On June 22 2014 02:52 Chromatically wrote:

So you thought the people blindly believing ritoky's claim were mafia trying to push a mislynch on you?

On June 23 2014 09:36 Holyflare wrote:
I think it's incredibly much MORE notable that he tried to get his town read lynched all game which implied he planned this A LONG TIME AGO.

On June 23 2014 09:42 ritoky wrote:


Nope.

On June 24 2014 05:15 ritoky wrote:
well that post messed up lol

On June 24 2014 05:20 ritoky wrote:


i agree that you and holyflare are aligned, you have both been pushing lynches on lurkers all game.

On June 25 2014 03:11 ritoky wrote:
voting on holyflare, because imo he has done nothing for town and is probably the most sure-fired mafia lynch.

wanted to push MLs on lurkers, complained all game long and did nothing about it, and earlier in this phase he made a post asking others to present cases on players to him; he didn't even bother trying to find scum. this guy is 1000% mafia.

i like CR's post, i disagree on a little bit of it, but it has the right direction.

anywayz, if you're town and you're voting on me. you're a donkey and about to lose.