TL 'Order' LXVI Mafia - Page 5

On June 13 2014 07:22 Koshi wrote:
Robik could you check JaT, MZ and Chrom?

##Foolishness read: MZ

On June 13 2014 07:29 Koshi wrote:
How can you like JaT early?

On June 11 2014 07:45 justanothertownie wrote:

Townpile.

On June 13 2014 08:41 Koshi wrote:
Well MZ is calling me an idiot. I dont know if that counts.

On June 14 2014 00:31 ketomai wrote:


I don't see the problem with not being confident about anything on the first day. In fact, the "stunning" case marv made for KoC actually did not seem that convincing to me personally. The lynch was so easy (among other reasons) that it makes me think he could possibly be bussing.

Maybe it's just my personal preference, but I like to use more concrete evidence like voting patterns and associative evidence, which is not available on the first day.

On June 14 2014 01:19 marvellosity wrote:
yes i randomly lynched my team-mate who was under no suspicion and lowered our KP for shits and giggles.

Well done roundabound.

On June 14 2014 01:34 Holyflare wrote:
cop checking robik tonight

On June 14 2014 01:48 marvellosity wrote:
roundabound's filter is kinda terrible after the initial exchanges that made him look town.

Removing from townlist

On June 14 2014 05:37 marvellosity wrote:
omg holland are fucking DESTROYING spain

On June 11 2014 11:38 ketomai wrote:
I'm going to place my vote with roundabound until I can catch up with the thread. Exo is the one running against him and there's not much that indicates scum for me yet.

I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion.

This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone.

On June 11 2014 11:51 ketomai wrote:
@roundabout I skimmed both situations and you were the more likely one of the two; I thought that should've been obvious. I'm casting the vote early in case something happens so I don't get instant modkilled. Obviously when I'm done reading the thread and thinking about things I'll most probably give my opinions and change it up. Until then, you can pretty much disregard my vote for you as filler after a cursory glance at both situations.

On June 11 2014 12:10 ketomai wrote:
Well, whether or not my belief is incorrect or not doesn't matter because it's inconsequential. I'm trying to reassure you because you're so up in arms about it but you can do what you want, I don't really care.

Again, I'll post a more detailed analysis if I can get home early enough to read tomorrow. I'm done replying to you for now!

On June 12 2014 12:33 ketomai wrote:


I'm here and I realize you're just pressuring me to respond, but reading 50 straight pages of mostly spam is honestly exhausting (and impossible for me after a long day at work). I gave up in the middle and just took a cursory glance through filters and whatnot for current top votes. I also took a look at a few other people that showed up near the beginning of the thread. I'll try to keep up with the thread from now on. Hopefully there's less spam in the future because missing 1 day so far seems to be catastrophic.

Top votes:

Koshi: Leaning slightly towards mafia. Biggest flag is his lack of cooperation with town as noted by others. He doesn't really argue, he just tries to pass off his viewpoints on the grounds that it should be obvious. I'm willing to wait on how he responds now that he's under pressure now and after he's promised to be more cooperative, however. He hasn't really contributed much other than defending himself. Also, I disagree with pretty much everything he says, but that doesn't really make him more or less mafia.

Exo: Leaning slightly towards town. He doesn't spam up the thread and has only posted the few times he's confident in his opinion. However, his last post that also contained his vote jumped to a conclusion really fast without much evidence. The way he said it leaves room for change, like my own vote, so I'm also not too suspicious of that. It feels more like he honestly doesn't know who to vote for because there's so much spam/finger pointing as a newer player.

Roundabout: No read. When he was attacking me earlier I thought he was doing that to everyone to create some chaos, but after looking through the filters he hasn't really done much past the early game. The point about him not contributing much is true, but not enough grounds to seem mafia yet; the game is early. The jump on me was a bit strange since I, personally, felt it was useless garbage spamming up the thread, but I'll ignore that. I would like to see him post more now that the "heat" is off of him.

strongandbig: Seems a little bit like mafia. Would be the easy pick to vote but I'd love to see him defend himself first because like my suspicions for every one else after 1 day, I'm not sure. If anything, a lynch wouldn't be so bad just because he's not productive/working w/ the town.

ritoky: Currently seems like mafia to me. He's on consistently throughout the day (his posts are very spread out), yet he doesn't really seem to contribute or address the game at all. He's just tunnel visioning Chromatically with nearly all his posts (who I personally have tagged as slightly town, so I naturally disagree with most of what he's saying).

Chairman Ray: slightly town. So far everything he posts is pretty logical. I disagree a bit with his leaps on roundabout, but he's defended himself and arguments pretty well, so I like that. He brings up his own arguments to add to town discussion as well, which is usually good if they make sense.

MZ: Other than furthering the VA lynchwagon (unless I missed some great post about it), not enough info, no read.


Anyway I made a post because I promised it, but as you can see my knowledge of the thread is not very thorough yet. You should view these as my initial thoughts. I feel strongest about ritoky out of the people I checked so I'll vote on him for now to get him to speak out.

On June 13 2014 11:57 ketomai wrote:
Nice job on the lynch. In light of that lynch, it changes my opinions on a lot of people and made me look at others. Of those here are the ones that concern me most:

sinani: I'm feeling mafia on this one.

-KoC admitted after he got lynched that he's quite bad in mafia. It's not out of the question that some of his early defenses could be actual mafia. He went along with KoC's badly supported agenda on batsnacks.
-He voted for KoC at the tipping point after it became pretty clear that KoC was going to get lynched already. He actually soft defended KoC before that and then after a couple more votes came in and KoC surpassed SnB, he conceded.



Here, he's suggesting that there's nothing wrong with votes on ended bandwagons. Notice where his own vote is when he says this (on the antiquated Koshi wagon). While being on an inactive bandwagon is not exactly a 100% mafia tell (I am guilty as well), being present while having such a vote and being content with it is a lot more mafia. He also does not change his vote or provide any analysis aside from:



Here it's already apparent that KoC is the case that should be focused on here yet he ignores marv (and marv called him out on it) and just tries to bring up my case again. He doesn't actually "investigate" KoC until he gets called out on ignoring it. In fact, the people he has problems with in his post history are myself and koshi, who a lot of people were attacking anyway. I obviously know I'm not mafia and I'm starting to think Koshi is less mafia, which makes his cases even more suspicious to me personally.

Anyway, besides that just look at his filter. He's basically contributed nothing while going for the easy low hanging fruits. That combined with his suspicious voting and lack of proactivity in analyzing big cases or any cases makes me think he's mafia.

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 13 2014 12:01 ketomai wrote:
Also, for both of those people, they have not actually posted much. It's much less than I thought at first because they have been discussed as potential mafia during the very beginnings of the game. The common theme here is they are laying pretty low without stepping up with any original content. Both are present during the crucial moments before the lynch and do not participate despite clearly paying attention to the game before and during that point.

On June 13 2014 13:19 ketomai wrote:
See, everyone just says I'm mafia without providing a good reason. I'm not against people calling me mafia if they think so, but with so many people doing it without what most would consider solid reasoning yet, it becomes detrimental to the town.

My bandwagon is the easiest for mafia to jump on because it's the safe one. Marv has me on his list, and it's the cool thing to do to accuse me with 1 line and that's it. They don't even need to give a reason because no one else is. I'm not saying the people who did are mafia necessarily, but look how many people randomly bring up my name as other bandwagons are going on. Intentionally or not, it potentially gives people an easy out to discussing the real issues that actually have evidence.

The reason I haven't been refuting any cases against me is because there really aren't any. I want someone to give me a solid case that I can at least attempt to refute to get this over with. Because as it stands now, my name is just potential misdirection.

On June 13 2014 13:33 ketomai wrote:


See that's what I don't like about your play. If you weren't seeing KoC, then SAY THAT and say why before you randomly post about someone completely different. You don't want to even talk about people you don't have strong feelings about but you speak up about the randomest of people without solid evidence. I mean you accused Kush previously but your only reasoning is "he asked for it" and "he's trolly". MANY people have been "trolly" this game (Vayneauthority, Palmer, etc). Do you find a borderline policy lynch (by your reasoning) on kush more acceptable than ANY of the cases that have been brought up? I find that that hard to believe.

As for why I have so few posts, it's because yes, I am generally only active after work in a 4-5 hour time period. However, I had more of a problem about your post content and when you're inactive rather than the total posts. The total posts was just an observation.

On June 13 2014 05:01 Amiko wrote:


strongandbig (4): Bill Murray, Palmar, Rainbows, Chairman Ray, ketomai, Alakaslam,

---

TheKingOfTheCats was lynched with 11 votes!

Night 1 will end in

On June 14 2014 08:11 ketomai wrote:
@roundabout

1st post: Why is it not logical to closely observe cases that seem to have the most steam? When you're short on time you can't reinvent the wheel and observe every case from the ground up. You also misconstrue my intent. I observe the cases not because I trust them but because I'm actually forming my own opinion about the case. The difference here is that I'm choosing which ones that were debated and have work done on them already so I can contribute my thoughts to those cases rather than try to start over with a case that I can not keep pushing due to time constraints.

On June 11 2014 11:38 ketomai wrote:
I'm going to place my vote with roundabound until I can catch up with the thread. Exo is the one running against him and there's not much that indicates scum for me yet.

I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion.

This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone.

2nd post: He doesn't just not want to vote, he ignores someone asking him about the case, which was the steaming bandwagon. Also, you need to read again, I did mention myself and Koshi. I considered both myself AND Koshi as easy cases that everyone was jumping on.

And you're point about him wanting to lynch Koshi. Look how strongly he actually wants to lynch Koshi. He really doesn't try to explain anything or change any opinions after his first post (which after that point, the bandwagon for it is long gone). It would not be suspicious if he continued fighting for a Koshi lynch but he just leaves his vote on there with no explanation or discussion despite being present as MULTIPLE bandwagons passed it.

3rd post: Was an observation to supplement the earlier post. Finding mafia isn't just one big clue, it's an accumulations of facts that don't independently prove anything.

4th post: My "self-flagellation" is actually an attempt to get town to properly assess my case. Yes, I do that on purpose because I didn't want to continue wasting votes and helping mafia by being constantly accusable with no evidence. Finally, someone has actually tried to come at me; that's good. You're just mincing words with the "potential misdirection part". It's potential misdirection because when my baseless status as a mafia suspect actually garners votes/vigi hits, it becomes actual misdirection that hurts the town in a direct way. I have no way of knowing if mafia are using me as an easy accusation for towncred; that's also misdirection, but I have no way of knowing.

5th post about the voting: I did make a case for snb, first content post. He was my 2nd lynch after ritoki and since I saw the case for snb building up and I wouldn't be back in time to vote or participate in further developments, I left my vote on snb. I stated that long before KoC happened.

strongandbig: Seems a little bit like mafia. Would be the easy pick to vote but I'd love to see him defend himself first because like my suspicions for every one else after 1 day, I'm not sure. If anything, a lynch wouldn't be so bad just because he's not productive/working w/ the town.

SnB looks more town to me after that lynch and Exo/Sinani looked more mafia after the lynch. How is it hard to understand that circumstances change. On the first day there's no evidence to go by so you have to look at more abstract and unverifiable evidence. The original case on SnB actually wasn't that strong either (I'd say it was as strong as Marv's KoC case, actually), but it was the 2nd strongest that I could come up with on my first content post.

Nice job on the lynch. In light of that lynch, it changes my opinions on a lot of people and made me look at others. Of those here are the ones that concern me most: