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On June 11 2014 12:36 roundabound wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:30 TicaTica wrote:On June 11 2014 12:23 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:17 TicaTica wrote:
Is Rainbows around still? If he be, then peeky at batsnacks. His read post looks being rather off. Four Fifth of his null read are "easy pickings" read. His four wolfy reads are dastardly off base being my opinion (exception perhaps Chairman Ray). Only one of wolfy reads is even developed which being tehpoofter and the mindset is quite hmmmm unique. His reads look very fishing to me. What is your take? I agree that the nulls were probably not even needed to be mentioned. The scum reads we OK, I don't agree with them all. Kind of sparse but it's the early game. I saw the post initially and it didn't strike me as super odd at the time. What do you mean his mindset is unique? He's saying he saw a pattern in tehpoofter and he's looking likes he is helping. It's not a terrible analysis, just not fantastic. How he thinks make people scummy very odd. His read are nonsense; summarize play and calling it scummy. Feeling very odd. Mayhaps he is just less good of player and am not familiar with me. Should we be familiar with you?
Ah. I miss type. I meant "am not familiar with him."
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On June 11 2014 12:23 ketomai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On June 11 2014 12:18 ketomai wrote:
Go for it if you want to waste your time and lynch. People who are hanging onto me are clearly just looking for another topic to create more chaos or just to prod me. It's pretty obvious to anyone objectively looking that I haven't even started the game yet. If the town is stupid enough to blind lynch me, then so be it. Have fun losing the rest of your game if you get manipulated into being distracted by random comments like mine. whos getting manipulated and where? you must provide quotes and scholarly sources. Anyone who is taking round or your comments about me seriously. If you don't believe me, filter my posts and look where I began posting. The initial comment was pretty innocuous; the rest are to try to calm down round for the benefit of the town and round himself. I'm not the one trying to distract town with useless material. I'm actually done here. I'll be returning with a content-filled post tomorrow instead of clogging up the thread and the town agenda with this garbage.
k, all i see if you holding off a vote on round by virtue of "policy" and then a bunch debate-oriented fluff.
my vote is just gonna rest here until you do a thing that makes you not mafia.
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obiwan why is "debate oriented stuff" scummy?
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also u realize i have no idea what my alignment is so maybe you should rethink your kush tells?
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On June 11 2014 12:37 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:34 batsnacks wrote:On June 11 2014 12:23 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:17 TicaTica wrote:
Is Rainbows around still? If he be, then peeky at batsnacks. His read post looks being rather off. Four Fifth of his null read are "easy pickings" read. His four wolfy reads are dastardly off base being my opinion (exception perhaps Chairman Ray). Only one of wolfy reads is even developed which being tehpoofter and the mindset is quite hmmmm unique. His reads look very fishing to me. What is your take? I agree that the nulls were probably not even needed to be mentioned. The scum reads we OK, I don't agree with them all. Kind of sparse but it's the early game. I saw the post initially and it didn't strike me as super odd at the time. What do you mean his mindset is unique? He's saying he saw a pattern in tehpoofter and he's looking likes he is helping. It's not a terrible analysis, just not fantastic. So Rainbows... On June 11 2014 12:15 Rainbows wrote:
batsnacks how do you feel about CR so far? Since his post was directed at you. Did you ever get your answer? You generally answered "Your posts are too intelligent and thorough", which means he is mafia. I meant specifically what do you think CR's goal (assuming, he is town) this game, because the post where he asks you a bunch of questions seems to be irrelevant.
If CR is town I assume his goal is to lynch mafia?
I'm not trying to argue or disagree or whatever, but help me understand, why were his questions irrelevant?
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Calling Chairman Ray scummy because he doesn't talk dumb like the vast majority of us is stupid. Sure, don't let his pleasant to read posts and calm attitude make you assume he's town but for fucks sake don't call him scum for it. At least analyze the content -_-
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On June 11 2014 12:38 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:23 ketomai wrote:On June 11 2014 12:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On June 11 2014 12:18 ketomai wrote:
Go for it if you want to waste your time and lynch. People who are hanging onto me are clearly just looking for another topic to create more chaos or just to prod me. It's pretty obvious to anyone objectively looking that I haven't even started the game yet. If the town is stupid enough to blind lynch me, then so be it. Have fun losing the rest of your game if you get manipulated into being distracted by random comments like mine. whos getting manipulated and where? you must provide quotes and scholarly sources. Anyone who is taking round or your comments about me seriously. If you don't believe me, filter my posts and look where I began posting. The initial comment was pretty innocuous; the rest are to try to calm down round for the benefit of the town and round himself. I'm not the one trying to distract town with useless material. I'm actually done here. I'll be returning with a content-filled post tomorrow instead of clogging up the thread and the town agenda with this garbage. k, all i see if you holding off a vote on round by virtue of "policy" and then a bunch debate-oriented fluff. my vote is just gonna rest here until you do a thing that makes you not mafia.
eep.
i just realized that he voted and i missed it because im dumb.
i still think hes mafia though.
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On June 11 2014 12:40 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:37 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:34 batsnacks wrote:On June 11 2014 12:23 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:17 TicaTica wrote:
Is Rainbows around still? If he be, then peeky at batsnacks. His read post looks being rather off. Four Fifth of his null read are "easy pickings" read. His four wolfy reads are dastardly off base being my opinion (exception perhaps Chairman Ray). Only one of wolfy reads is even developed which being tehpoofter and the mindset is quite hmmmm unique. His reads look very fishing to me. What is your take? I agree that the nulls were probably not even needed to be mentioned. The scum reads we OK, I don't agree with them all. Kind of sparse but it's the early game. I saw the post initially and it didn't strike me as super odd at the time. What do you mean his mindset is unique? He's saying he saw a pattern in tehpoofter and he's looking likes he is helping. It's not a terrible analysis, just not fantastic. So Rainbows... On June 11 2014 12:15 Rainbows wrote:
batsnacks how do you feel about CR so far? Since his post was directed at you. Did you ever get your answer? You generally answered "Your posts are too intelligent and thorough", which means he is mafia. I meant specifically what do you think CR's goal (assuming, he is town) this game, because the post where he asks you a bunch of questions seems to be irrelevant. If CR is town I assume his goal is to lynch mafia? I'm not trying to argue or disagree or whatever, but help me understand, why were his questions irrelevant?
If CR is town, he is trying to figure out your intentions with your reads post. To see if YOU are mafia. If this is the case, why does he ask "Why not Palmar?" or "Why tica = null". He asks a question about every one of your reads. Feels like homework. Not all of the questions were bad, just some like "why is this scummy" when that should have been self-explanatory.
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On June 11 2014 12:40 kushm4sta wrote:
ptthhhhhpbbbttbtttppptt
kush is making sounds with his face. i think he is trying to speak to us.
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On June 11 2014 12:45 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:40 batsnacks wrote:On June 11 2014 12:37 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:34 batsnacks wrote:On June 11 2014 12:23 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:17 TicaTica wrote:
Is Rainbows around still? If he be, then peeky at batsnacks. His read post looks being rather off. Four Fifth of his null read are "easy pickings" read. His four wolfy reads are dastardly off base being my opinion (exception perhaps Chairman Ray). Only one of wolfy reads is even developed which being tehpoofter and the mindset is quite hmmmm unique. His reads look very fishing to me. What is your take? I agree that the nulls were probably not even needed to be mentioned. The scum reads we OK, I don't agree with them all. Kind of sparse but it's the early game. I saw the post initially and it didn't strike me as super odd at the time. What do you mean his mindset is unique? He's saying he saw a pattern in tehpoofter and he's looking likes he is helping. It's not a terrible analysis, just not fantastic. So Rainbows... On June 11 2014 12:15 Rainbows wrote:
batsnacks how do you feel about CR so far? Since his post was directed at you. Did you ever get your answer? You generally answered "Your posts are too intelligent and thorough", which means he is mafia. I meant specifically what do you think CR's goal (assuming, he is town) this game, because the post where he asks you a bunch of questions seems to be irrelevant. If CR is town I assume his goal is to lynch mafia? I'm not trying to argue or disagree or whatever, but help me understand, why were his questions irrelevant? If CR is town, he is trying to figure out your intentions with your reads post. To see if YOU are mafia. If this is the case, why does he ask "Why not Palmar?" or "Why tica = null". He asks a question about every one of your reads. Feels like homework. Not all of the questions were bad, just some like "why is this scummy" when that should have been self-explanatory.
"Feels like homework" I like that. I like what you just said. Good.
Did you hear that MZ? It feels to me like Chairman Ray is doing homework i.e. responding carefully and intelligently to what he has to. He is the only person in this game I have this feeling about.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2014 09:20 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 08:53 Tehpoofter wrote:On June 11 2014 08:51 Koshi wrote:
I voted Tica because I dislike him more. More words does not equal bigger scumread.
I still think my post was pretty good. Reason:
I think my towns are town.
My questionables good pressures points.
I will continue my quest tomorrow.
His recent posts backing up your wolf lean on him? How do you feel about Marv/Sandroba/JaT not liking your post at all? You think thats alignment indicative for any of them? Also You're doing a poor job of try harding if you make one post a day. Please don't go Cephiro mode on me. If Koshi is heading out for the night, I'm just gonna chime in now. Koshi's big analysis post reads pretty scummy to me. His mafia reads seem pretty sincere and thought out, but his town reads are very short. Whether or not he believes them himself is not evident, but it doesn't convey much to the reader. My initial thinking is that his townreads serve to 'bulk' up his post. I've seen a lot of mafia in previous games iterate through people and give a quick impression of them without a well thought out read on them. This gives the impression that they are active and their posts are longer without actually having to do a lot of investigation. What strikes me odd was his next post: Koshi posted this in response to the people that were dismissive of his reads. This is a very important distinction because people react differently when they are opposed by analysis and when they are opposed by a one liner. In this case, most people just posted a quick one liner dismissing him. From Koshi's perspective, if he just gave out a few quick impressions without a lot of thought, he wouldn't have any sort of attachment or loyalty to his post. His response to the critics would be something like "Those were just my gut feelings at the moment, they may change by the end of the day". Instead, he dismissed the critics with a one liner post containing no new information by posting "No sorry my towns are town". It may be hard to read into on forum mafia, but to me he sounds a bit frustrated and doesn't feel his critics doesn't deserve any more than a one liner. If this is the case, then Koshi has some genuine belief of his townreads, and regardless of the quality of his reads or how he conveyed them, this seems more town to me.tl;dr I disagree with Koshi's townreads, even though I am among them; I disagree with Sandroba that Koshi is mafia.
I don't get CR's goal with his postings. he comes to no conclusion, just that some post made koshi scummy but his next post made him more town. So is he mafia or town for CR at this point?
I care not that CR is posting intelligently (this is a good thing!!!), but there's a bunch of text with seemingly no bite involved atm
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On June 11 2014 11:38 ketomai wrote:
I'm going to place my vote with roundabound until I can catch up with the thread. Exo is the one running against him and there's not much that indicates scum for me yet.
I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion.
This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone.
wolfy
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On June 11 2014 12:45 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 12:40 batsnacks wrote:On June 11 2014 12:37 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:34 batsnacks wrote:On June 11 2014 12:23 Rainbows wrote:On June 11 2014 12:17 TicaTica wrote:
Is Rainbows around still? If he be, then peeky at batsnacks. His read post looks being rather off. Four Fifth of his null read are "easy pickings" read. His four wolfy reads are dastardly off base being my opinion (exception perhaps Chairman Ray). Only one of wolfy reads is even developed which being tehpoofter and the mindset is quite hmmmm unique. His reads look very fishing to me. What is your take? I agree that the nulls were probably not even needed to be mentioned. The scum reads we OK, I don't agree with them all. Kind of sparse but it's the early game. I saw the post initially and it didn't strike me as super odd at the time. What do you mean his mindset is unique? He's saying he saw a pattern in tehpoofter and he's looking likes he is helping. It's not a terrible analysis, just not fantastic. So Rainbows... On June 11 2014 12:15 Rainbows wrote:
batsnacks how do you feel about CR so far? Since his post was directed at you. Did you ever get your answer? You generally answered "Your posts are too intelligent and thorough", which means he is mafia. I meant specifically what do you think CR's goal (assuming, he is town) this game, because the post where he asks you a bunch of questions seems to be irrelevant. If CR is town I assume his goal is to lynch mafia? I'm not trying to argue or disagree or whatever, but help me understand, why were his questions irrelevant? If CR is town, he is trying to figure out your intentions with your reads post. To see if YOU are mafia. If this is the case, why does he ask "Why not Palmar?" or "Why tica = null". He asks a question about every one of your reads. Feels like homework. Not all of the questions were bad, just some like "why is this scummy" when that should have been self-explanatory.
<3
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On June 11 2014 12:14 Rainbows wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2014 11:52 Chairman Ray wrote:batsnacks, I do not fully understand your post, and was hoping you could clarify a few thing for me: Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 11:29 batsnacks wrote:
Okay I'm caught up here's my notes so far:
Sinani - Scum. He treads too lightly and unsuccessfully tries to dodge the spotlight. He tries to direct the spotlight away from himself. Do you have specific posts? I feel you are speaking too metaphorically and I don't actually see what you mean in his filter. Show nested quote +Chairman Ray - Too impressive a performance to be town. Leaning heavily toward mafia. I'm not sure how to respond to this. What does "too impressive" mean? Show nested quote +tehpoofer - Scum. My notes say "gave a lame apology." Voted roundabout for bad reasons, then unvoted roundabout for equally bad reasons. Voted for Koshi and switched soon after without pressuring Koshi at all. Soft defended sinani early on, then voted him for bad reasons, then unvoted him for bad reasons. Noticing a pattern. Tries to look like he's "helping" by pointing out when the thread started for kush. Tries to look like he's "helping" by explaining what a hydra is. Tries to look like he's "helping" by explaining what OMGUS means. Paraphrases other people's posts for them. tehpoofer made a ton of posts today and you have summarized a few of them. Can you explain why these posts you have selected are alignment indicative, and what you think about all his other posts? Palmer has skipped the game thus far because of dota. Why is he not on your FOS? Why is this town indicative? Why doesn't Bill Murray get town cred from calling out roundabout's sheeping the wrong player? Why is this suspicious behavior? Show nested quote +Bill Murray - My notes say "he liked exo's early posts." All of exo's early posts were questions about terminology that he could have easily googled. FOS Exo has made posts that are not just asking for terminology. Why did you discount these posts? Why did you give TicaTica a null read with no real explanation, and not included any of the other people who have posted in this thread? I don't understand what this post is trying to achieve by CR. He claims to "not fully understand" this post, but asks questions about people not even referenced by bat, (IE Why not FoS Palmar? Why not include other people?) even asks why the null read at this stage in the game. What is the goal? I'm having a difficult time understanding Chair's motivations so far.
My reply to batsnacks was to further read if he's mafia or not. I have two strong reads on why he's mafia, and I needed to be confirm with him that he just didn't misconvey his reads.
1) Mafia will often generalize or conceptualize and then attack based on that generalization and not the original context. A town will more likely consider a case by its face value.
2) Mafia will often pick certain reads to either seem active or try to push a certain agenda because all he has to do is not get lynched himself or push for a mislynch. They tend to be more inconsistent or random. A town does not know who else is town or mafia and has to look at everything.
Now let's break down batsnack's post:
Sinani - Scum. He treads too lightly and unsuccessfully tries to dodge the spotlight. He tries to direct the spotlight away from himself.
1. About sinani. There are specific posts but I don't feel like finding them. My notes are just my general feelings about the thread so far. Maybe my feelings are too metaphorical but at least I'm sharing them.
This gives no tangible evidence to the rest of us. If he's just sharing his feelings and not even bothering to give specific posts or evidence. This is clearly just to make himself seem more active without being active.
Chairman Ray - Too impressive a performance to be town. Leaning heavily toward mafia.
2. About you. Your posts are too intelligent and thorough. Are those better adjectives than "impressive"?
I have said quite a bit this game and batsnacks wraps it all up into the word "impressive". He didn't have any feedback on what I have written. He didn't put any thought into why my reads could be accurate, or why they may be wrong. The only thing he seemed to get from it was that it was apparently "intelligent and thorough" and that was all he needed to give me "learning heavily toward mafia"
tehpoofer - Scum. My notes say "gave a lame apology." Voted roundabout for bad reasons, then unvoted roundabout for equally bad reasons. Voted for Koshi and switched soon after without pressuring Koshi at all. Soft defended sinani early on, then voted him for bad reasons, then unvoted him for bad reasons. Noticing a pattern. Tries to look like he's "helping" by pointing out when the thread started for kush. Tries to look like he's "helping" by explaining what a hydra is. Tries to look like he's "helping" by explaining what OMGUS means. Paraphrases other people's posts for them.
About tehpoofer. I believe everything I mentioned is alignment indicative. His posts have the theme of appearing to help but in ways that don't actually benefit town.
Tehpoofer has said a lot this game. Again, batsnacks is just taking everything and wrapping it up in "appearing to help but in ways that don't actually benefit town" and it does seem that way if you are only considering the posts that batsnacks has summarized. If you look into tehpoofer's filter, he's been very active on a lot of things besides just voting people and helping with definitions. I think batsnacks is clearly avoiding evidence for the sake of this read.
vayne - Skipped early game. Skipped more because "migraine." FOS
4. About Palmar. Palmar only made one "skip" post. Vayne made two consecutive "skip" posts. That's a big difference.
I originally questioned batsnacks on this because "skip" posts warrant his suspicions, but only for the case of Vayne, and not Palmer. I still don't know what's the big difference between one "skip" post and two and he hasn't told me what the big difference is, but my impression was that this read was randomly thrown out there without much consideration.
sandroba - Gets town cred for calling out Koshi first.
5. About sandroba. It's town indicative because I would have done the same thing. That thing that you said BillyMurray did either didn't make my notes because I interpreted whatever it was differently or because I missed it.
This is the only towncred that batsnacks has awarded, and it's for something as little as being the first one to bash Koshi's post. If this meets the standard of towncred, a lot of other stuff should get towncred as well. So again, I feel this case was just randomly added without much consideration.
Bill Murray - My notes say "he liked exo's early posts." All of exo's early posts were questions about terminology that he could have easily googled. FOS
6. About exo. He posts only to benefit himself, not town. If I were newb town and didn't know what hydras or OMGUSing was I would make damn sure I couldn't educate myself before I asked in the thread.
I feel that batsnacks didn't really read either Exo's posts or Bill Murray's posts. Exo definitely said more than just asking about terminology. Bill Murray was not just referring to Exo's terminology questions when he said he liked exo's early posts. In fact, Bill Murray's filter has a lot of very interesting things and his opinion on Exo is just one little thing, but it was the one little thing that batsnacks chose to attack.
Overall, these are my current suspicions on batsnacks:
- batsnacks has done little to convey specific evidence or examples on any of his reads. This tells me that he's trying to seem active without being active.
- he generalizes people's entire filters such as BM's, exo's, and mine, and attacks based on that generalization and chooses to disregard the context
- every read that he has or doesn't have shows a very different standard of what constitutes as suspicious
- the few reads that he has chosen are seemlingly random and I don't know why he decided on those instead of all else that has happened in the thread
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Vote Count - Day 1:
Palmar (0): batsnacks
yamato77 (1): Palmar
roundabound (4): ObiWanShinobi, Tehpoofter, batsnacks, Chairman Ray, Bill Murray, Bill Murray, ketomai
sinani206 (1): Chromatically, Tehpoofter
Koshi (2): TicaTica, Tehpoofter, Rainbows
TicaTica (1): Koshi
ExO_ (2): sandroba, Tehpoofter, kushm4sta
HolyFlare (1): Tehpoofter
Bill Murray (1): roundabound
ketomai (1): ObiWanShinobi
Not voting (-): Everyone else
Currently roundabound is set to be lynched with 4 votes! Day will end in
Remember: Voting is mandatory and has to be done in this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451311-tl-order-lxvi-thread-for-doing-of-the-voting
If there is a tie, the first person to reach that number of votes is lynched.
Please contact the mods if the vote count is incorrect. Thank you!
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On June 11 2014 12:51 Rainbows wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2014 09:20 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 08:53 Tehpoofter wrote:On June 11 2014 08:51 Koshi wrote:
I voted Tica because I dislike him more. More words does not equal bigger scumread.
I still think my post was pretty good. Reason:
I think my towns are town.
My questionables good pressures points.
I will continue my quest tomorrow.
His recent posts backing up your wolf lean on him? How do you feel about Marv/Sandroba/JaT not liking your post at all? You think thats alignment indicative for any of them? Also You're doing a poor job of try harding if you make one post a day. Please don't go Cephiro mode on me. If Koshi is heading out for the night, I'm just gonna chime in now. Koshi's big analysis post reads pretty scummy to me. His mafia reads seem pretty sincere and thought out, but his town reads are very short. Whether or not he believes them himself is not evident, but it doesn't convey much to the reader. My initial thinking is that his townreads serve to 'bulk' up his post. I've seen a lot of mafia in previous games iterate through people and give a quick impression of them without a well thought out read on them. This gives the impression that they are active and their posts are longer without actually having to do a lot of investigation. What strikes me odd was his next post: Koshi posted this in response to the people that were dismissive of his reads. This is a very important distinction because people react differently when they are opposed by analysis and when they are opposed by a one liner. In this case, most people just posted a quick one liner dismissing him. From Koshi's perspective, if he just gave out a few quick impressions without a lot of thought, he wouldn't have any sort of attachment or loyalty to his post. His response to the critics would be something like "Those were just my gut feelings at the moment, they may change by the end of the day". Instead, he dismissed the critics with a one liner post containing no new information by posting "No sorry my towns are town". It may be hard to read into on forum mafia, but to me he sounds a bit frustrated and doesn't feel his critics doesn't deserve any more than a one liner. If this is the case, then Koshi has some genuine belief of his townreads, and regardless of the quality of his reads or how he conveyed them, this seems more town to me.tl;dr I disagree with Koshi's townreads, even though I am among them; I disagree with Sandroba that Koshi is mafia. I don't get CR's goal with his postings. he comes to no conclusion, just that some post made koshi scummy but his next post made him more town. So is he mafia or town for CR at this point? I care not that CR is posting intelligently (this is a good thing!!!), but there's a bunch of text with seemingly no bite involved atm
Not every post has to strictly give a conclusion whether or not I think someone is mafia or town. I posted that analysis on Koshi because a few other people thought Koshi was mafia based on Koshi's reads. I wanted to to convey that while I agree some of Koshi's reads were problematic, these problems are not ones that mafia would do, but rather town would do.
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Chairman, without reading the above post, I really wish both your posts about me weren't perfectly sequential dissections of literally everything I said.
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On June 11 2014 13:23 batsnacks wrote:
Chairman, without reading the above post, I really wish both your posts about me weren't perfectly sequential dissections of literally everything I said.
Sorry, I'll try to keep it brief from now on. You can just read the "Overall" statement at the end
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im gonna be honest and say i didnt read any of that shit.
its probably wrong though.
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Okay okay, I withdraw my statement. No need to read it. I'll come up with short and punchy things from now on.
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EPT
