EPTI know Foolish hated the way he got lynched in Shadow. Dunno if he'd just let that happen again.
TL 'Order' LXVI Mafia - Page 195
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I know Foolish hated the way he got lynched in Shadow. Dunno if he'd just let that happen again. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On June 17 2014 19:31 Holyflare wrote: :D:D Still don't get your snb town read Yeah but I changed my mind after rereading his filter and seeing it really was way more afk rhan in wherever that other game was | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Just to make sure I don't mess it up again | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 17 2014 21:07 strongandbig wrote: ##vote: mattisfoolish Just to make sure I don't mess it up again why aren't you playing the game? | ||
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justanothertownie
16324 Posts
On June 17 2014 20:51 yamato77 wrote: I'm pretty sure Matt/Foolish would be more concerned about dying if they were town. I know Foolish hated the way he got lynched in Shadow. Dunno if he'd just let that happen again. Well, while I think so too you can't ignore the fact that he basically gave up without a fight and let us lynch him in YOSO. Might have something to do with me and other people tunneling him all game though. | ||
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justanothertownie
16324 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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justanothertownie
16324 Posts
On June 17 2014 11:01 sandroba wrote: You can lynch me if I don't pick up the pace okay, because I will. *yawn* | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Work | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
That said, I actually kind of like the way after day 1 he started interacting with the rest of the thread more. The other reads in his list post feel much more organic to me. I like his comment on sinani and on "banks" although I might not like that as much if I knew who banks was. Leaning town on him. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
- chairman ray is an easy target since he keeps getting mislynched - don't like his advice post to exo, not one bit - kitomai day1 case is correct reasoning but that's not necessarily a town tell because that reasoning was so obvious, didnt require a townie point of view to see. Still, good - after absence still on Eco, srs? Don't like the exo advice giving obsession, that's like five posts out of like twenty. Not gonna call him scum for lurking since he's posted more than I have, but lean scum for the above reasons0 | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
- random votes round as a joke then makes it real - doesnt have to be "scum trying to justify their random vote", I could also see the random vote making him read round's filter first as town - actually it wouldn't make sense for this to be scum trying to maintain consistency and justify an early vote since he announces the random vote beforehand. Still, I think in general scum are more likely to be concerned with consistency than town, so when someone real-votes the target of their random vote it makes me suspicious. - that said I kind of like his reasoning in his real-case post on round. - his koshi long post reads townie to me. This is counterintuitive but I see confliction about your read on someone as townie not scummy, since scum are going to be self aware of the "need to not be wishy washy" and are going to fake self confidence and make sure their reads have a point - bat snacks case is null, i don't feel a lot of attachment but I can see where his read is coming from - don't like the unvote on bar snacks but reading the filter it seems less scummy than I thought it would, for the same reasons the case itself is null - reasons for voting me are fine IMO Read: town | ||
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
So the night kills. I'm going to assume Kush was town and we have 5 mafia left, and I'm not going to read into the janitor or anything. Koshi getting hit was expected. Tehpoofter was one of my top town reads and I really liked his reads post during the night, I agreed with it very much. There are two sections of people we need to lynch in this game. They are inactive people who look scummy, and the semi-active people who look scummy. Most of the fairly active people appear at least somewhat townish and are in my townreads. I'm willing to accept that perhaps 1 maybe 2 are the active mafia and most are the inactive / semi-lurkish people in the thread. I would not mind lynching the following people today, in order of preference: Ketomai, Chairman Ray, SnB, Sandroba, MiF, maybe Ritoky. There are a few others that I have barely read into that should probably get the noose as well. Ketomai is mafia for a few reasons. 1) The RoundaBound 'placeholder' vote. All relevant quotes and exposition are spoilered. + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2014 11:38 ketomai wrote: I'm going to place my vote with roundabound until I can catch up with the thread. Exo is the one running against him and there's not much that indicates scum for me yet. I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion. This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone. Keto places a vote onto Round, claiming that of the two wagons, Round is more scummy than Exo. I find it interesting that Keto limits himself to these two wagons instead of placing a vote elsewhere. Who else did he find scummy in his first read through? As Ketomai would go onto explain, he does not even believe Round is mafia. On June 11 2014 11:51 ketomai wrote: @roundabout I skimmed both situations and you were the more likely one of the two; I thought that should've been obvious. I'm casting the vote early in case something happens so I don't get instant modkilled. Obviously when I'm done reading the thread and thinking about things I'll most probably give my opinions and change it up. Until then, you can pretty much disregard my vote for you as filler after a cursory glance at both situations. The justification for the round vote is incredibly mafia-like. Ketomai wants round and the thread to take his vote not seriously, claiming that he will change his vote. His vote is 'filler', a waste. Think of the intent behind these two quotes and vote. A town intent would suggest voting someone Keto believes is mafia in attempt to push him. A mafia intent involves 1) Survival (not being modkilled, good for town too but he makes the explicit notion of only voting for self-preservation). 2) Side-stepping responsibility, by casting his vote under the guise of 'filler' and claiming he will change it. 3) Avoiding the suspicion of Round; by ensuring him that he doesn't believe Round is mafia and he will most certainly 'change it up'. Keto attempts to appease Round by saying "disregard that vote", and that typically does not come from town. On June 11 2014 12:00 ketomai wrote: How is fallacious if I'm not even making an argument, lol. I do not think you are scum, just moreso than Exo at this very moment. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may not abstain. It's also not very smart of me to just eventually vote for you anyway if I were mafia. If I were mafia, it''d be a lot easier to just stash away my vote somewhere since your bandwagon is already gaining steam. If I were trying to save exo as mafia than him flipping would eventually lead to my demise. Don't worry, lol. This quote further reinforces that Keto does not believe the person he is voting is scum. The "If I were mafia bit" is rather ironic, and appeals to his own actions thus far in the game. Is not what he claims he would do as mafia, EXACTLY what he is doing? Keto is stashing away his vote on a bandwagon that is already gaining steam. Mafia want to lynch town (assuming round is town, i like the chances of this), and adding a vote 'in case something happens' to the town wagon only benefits mafia. It is convenient for mafia to place this vote because they can claim that 'something did happen' and I couldn't get home to change my vote. But I'm sorry he flipped town, I didn't even believe he was mafia. On June 11 2014 12:11 ketomai wrote: By the way, I guarantee my vote will change tomorrow unless I actually start thinking you're mafia. How's that? It's in writing ok? More appeasement of Round. The GUARANTEE that he will change his vote!!! This does not even PRESSURE Round. Town intent of this post is practically nonexistent. Mafia intent is to appease Round and to have an excuse to vote on his wagon. The bottom "How's that? It's in writing ok?" testifies to Keto's mindset: he seems a bit scared that he is being called out for the vote. 2) The "Everyone who wants to lynch me is mafia" Defense, and Scattershot + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2014 12:18 ketomai wrote: Go for it if you want to waste your time and lynch. People who are hanging onto me are clearly just looking for another topic to create more chaos or just to prod me. It's pretty obvious to anyone objectively looking that I haven't even started the game yet. If the town is stupid enough to blind lynch me, then so be it. Have fun losing the rest of your game if you get manipulated into being distracted by random comments like mine. I have a few problems with this post. The first is he calls out everyone attacking him (THE ULTIMATE OMGUS  ), calling the discussion around him a topic of 'chaos'. If everyone simply wants to create more chaos, does that not mean they are all mafia? It makes little sense to claim that 'hanging onto' Ketomai creates chaos. If it did, then Keto could give us some samples of these mafia people, but he neglects to do so. Then, he claims that the town is being manipulated. Manipulated by who? Mafia? At first Keto claims the people hanging on are creating chaos (mafia), and then claims they are being manipulated (unfortunate townie). Such incongruity, what does he really believe? Seems like mafia making stuff up. It seems like a mafia gambit to lash out against the town for calling him out. It's scattershot, to say the least.He furthers his campaign by implying that these same people are not looking 'objectively' at the game, which essentially calls them bad. The entire post is steeped in a negative tone, calling the town bad, and they should lose the game if they lynch him. Doesn't appear very townie at all to me. In addition, he calls his own posts 'random comments'. If they are not relevant, and just 'random comments', then why make them? Town have a purpose to voting and making comments: to discern who is mafia. Mafia make random comments for no reason to appear active. I can think of one town intention to making this post: if the townie is very mad, and wants to make the point that the points against him are bad. This intention can also be that of scum. The manner by which he executes his post, however, appears to be that of mafia because of it's totally aggressive, generalizing, and omgus nature. On June 11 2014 12:23 ketomai wrote: Anyone who is taking round or your comments about me seriously. If you don't believe me, filter my posts and look where I began posting. The initial comment was pretty innocuous; the rest are to try to calm down round for the benefit of the town and round himself. I'm not the one trying to distract town with useless material. I'm actually done here. I'll be returning with a content-filled post tomorrow instead of clogging up the thread and the town agenda with this garbage. What does Ketomai do in the bolded statement? He attempts to deflect pressure off of himself and onto Round and other townies pushing him. Apparently, Round and company are "trying to distract the town with useless material". This is just another snippet of Keto calling the points on him bad and putting the pressure back onto people he doesn't even believe are mafia. After these posts Ketomai takes a large haitus, KoC mafia gets lynched. I actually don't mind some of the posts that ensue. The reads on Sinani and Exo aren't out of the question, and I don't disagree with some of the brief analysis, but it is nothing stunning to me. He steps up his play which is a +1 in his favor. But I don't like this post: On June 14 2014 03:43 ketomai wrote: Don't have time to look into it but isn't this strange? Blues don't typically want to stand out. Generally they want to be indistinguishable to green townies. Even if you're town and you think he's a vigi, why would you attempt to identify him for the mafia? If you really thought he was a vigi, it'd actually be best to leave him be because he's useful to the mafia at the moment. The comment was totally unnecessary. If you're mafia, this could easily be a way to defend a fellow mafia by looking like you're doing work for the town and contributing when all you're doing is helping confuse people further. Let MZ defend himself. Blue talk, seems ironic that we shouldn't be talking about MZ being the vig, yet Keto is talking about MZ being the vig. Seems like an easy attack on MiF though. If MiF is town I really won't like this post. Some useless bussing speculation that won't have any relevance unless marv survives until endgame. Noticed this contradiction too: Keto's read on Koshi day 1: On June 12 2014 12:33 ketomai wrote: Koshi: Leaning slightly towards mafia. Biggest flag is his lack of cooperation with town as noted by others. He doesn't really argue, he just tries to pass off his viewpoints on the grounds that it should be obvious. I'm willing to wait on how he responds now that he's under pressure now and after he's promised to be more cooperative, however. He hasn't really contributed much other than defending himself. Also, I disagree with pretty much everything he says, but that doesn't really make him more or less mafia. Keto's take on Koshi day 2: On June 15 2014 23:39 ketomai wrote: And your accusations read like garbage (and it's not just me). I don't really care what you think because you don't even have a legit case because you're misreading (literally) almost everything. This is the last question I answer from you: I have not looked into Koshi. I also can't tell because people have said he's had a history of being stupid. His day 1 votes look town. His day 2 vote looks a little strange since he defended kush before and he's also made a play to swing the bandwagon momentum in a huge way for a shitty reason. I pretty much started ignoring him after his first content post. Keto leans mafia on Koshi day 1, but then on Day 2 he claims that Koshi's votes looked town? I assume Keto means Koshi ended up on KoC day 1, which indicates town. But previously, Keto was explaining how easy of a bus KoC could have been. Seems odd to me. What is most intriguing to me are these two sentences: "His day 2 vote looks a little strange since he defended kush before and he's also made a play to swing the bandwagon momentum in a huge way for a shitty reason. I pretty much started ignoring him after his first content post". Ketomai claims that he "pretty much started ignoring him after his first content post", and that he "hasn't looked into Koshi". But, somehow he knows EXACTLY what Koshi has been doing. He knows Koshi had a day 2 vote on Kush. He knows he made a play to swing bandwagon momentum for a 'shitty reason'. How can Ketomai know these things, and have an opinion on them, if he HASN'T LOOKED INTO KOSHI. How can he say this if he STARTED IGNORING HIM AFTER HIS FIRST CONTENT POST. Also, why would you ignore someone you originally had a scumread on? Day 1 Koshi was slightly scum, and Keto wanted to look more into him. This seems like a terrible incongruity and a lie. I like these reasons for Ketomai being mafia. His day 1 play was incredibly mafia-looking, and some of the stuff that's followed has either been null or mafia-oriented to me. ##Vote: Ketomai | ||
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
1) Day 1 play can be characterized as safe conjecture. Some posts felt like homework to Batsnacks, felt like little content for a lot of words / fluff. 2) Day 2 abysmal plays. Pops in right after I give my case on TownHaru, bolsters it, but does not back it up with a vote. Comes in many many hours later to post "Hey guys, what's up?" Then leaves for another 12 hours. Comes back and wastes his vote. Chairman claims that he hadn't read Haru's defense, and that's why he didn't vote. Clearly CR had time to read his defense if he comes in to post "Hey guys" randomly and ask what he should look at. He was around. 3) CR doesn't seem to care about the game at all. Seems like mafia just coasting by this game without doing anything of consequence to further a town agenda, and just voting to stay safe. | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
On June 18 2014 00:06 Rainbows wrote: Apologies for being afk. I've been kind of depressed / angry since the Haru flip. So the night kills. I'm going to assume Kush was town and we have 5 mafia left, and I'm not going to read into the janitor or anything. Koshi getting hit was expected. Tehpoofter was one of my top town reads and I really liked his reads post during the night, I agreed with it very much. There are two sections of people we need to lynch in this game. They are inactive people who look scummy, and the semi-active people who look scummy. Most of the fairly active people appear at least somewhat townish and are in my townreads. I'm willing to accept that perhaps 1 maybe 2 are the active mafia and most are the inactive / semi-lurkish people in the thread. I would not mind lynching the following people today, in order of preference: Ketomai, Chairman Ray, SnB, Sandroba, MiF, maybe Ritoky. There are a few others that I have barely read into that should probably get the noose as well. Ketomai is mafia for a few reasons. 1) The RoundaBound 'placeholder' vote. All relevant quotes and exposition are spoilered. + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2014 11:38 ketomai wrote: I'm going to place my vote with roundabound until I can catch up with the thread. Exo is the one running against him and there's not much that indicates scum for me yet. I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion. This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone. Keto places a vote onto Round, claiming that of the two wagons, Round is more scummy than Exo. I find it interesting that Keto limits himself to these two wagons instead of placing a vote elsewhere. Who else did he find scummy in his first read through? As Ketomai would go onto explain, he does not even believe Round is mafia. On June 11 2014 11:51 ketomai wrote: @roundabout I skimmed both situations and you were the more likely one of the two; I thought that should've been obvious. I'm casting the vote early in case something happens so I don't get instant modkilled. Obviously when I'm done reading the thread and thinking about things I'll most probably give my opinions and change it up. Until then, you can pretty much disregard my vote for you as filler after a cursory glance at both situations. The justification for the round vote is incredibly mafia-like. Ketomai wants round and the thread to take his vote not seriously, claiming that he will change his vote. His vote is 'filler', a waste. Think of the intent behind these two quotes and vote. A town intent would suggest voting someone Keto believes is mafia in attempt to push him. A mafia intent involves 1) Survival (not being modkilled, good for town too but he makes the explicit notion of only voting for self-preservation). 2) Side-stepping responsibility, by casting his vote under the guise of 'filler' and claiming he will change it. 3) Avoiding the suspicion of Round; by ensuring him that he doesn't believe Round is mafia and he will most certainly 'change it up'. Keto attempts to appease Round by saying "disregard that vote", and that typically does not come from town. On June 11 2014 12:00 ketomai wrote: How is fallacious if I'm not even making an argument, lol. I do not think you are scum, just moreso than Exo at this very moment. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may not abstain. It's also not very smart of me to just eventually vote for you anyway if I were mafia. If I were mafia, it''d be a lot easier to just stash away my vote somewhere since your bandwagon is already gaining steam. If I were trying to save exo as mafia than him flipping would eventually lead to my demise. Don't worry, lol. This quote further reinforces that Keto does not believe the person he is voting is scum. The "If I were mafia bit" is rather ironic, and appeals to his own actions thus far in the game. Is not what he claims he would do as mafia, EXACTLY what he is doing? Keto is stashing away his vote on a bandwagon that is already gaining steam. Mafia want to lynch town (assuming round is town, i like the chances of this), and adding a vote 'in case something happens' to the town wagon only benefits mafia. It is convenient for mafia to place this vote because they can claim that 'something did happen' and I couldn't get home to change my vote. But I'm sorry he flipped town, I didn't even believe he was mafia. On June 11 2014 12:11 ketomai wrote: By the way, I guarantee my vote will change tomorrow unless I actually start thinking you're mafia. How's that? It's in writing ok? More appeasement of Round. The GUARANTEE that he will change his vote!!! This does not even PRESSURE Round. Town intent of this post is practically nonexistent. Mafia intent is to appease Round and to have an excuse to vote on his wagon. The bottom "How's that? It's in writing ok?" testifies to Keto's mindset: he seems a bit scared that he is being called out for the vote. 2) The "Everyone who wants to lynch me is mafia" Defense, and Scattershot + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2014 12:18 ketomai wrote: Go for it if you want to waste your time and lynch. People who are hanging onto me are clearly just looking for another topic to create more chaos or just to prod me. It's pretty obvious to anyone objectively looking that I haven't even started the game yet. If the town is stupid enough to blind lynch me, then so be it. Have fun losing the rest of your game if you get manipulated into being distracted by random comments like mine. I have a few problems with this post. The first is he calls out everyone attacking him (THE ULTIMATE OMGUS ), calling the discussion around him a topic of 'chaos'. If everyone simply wants to create more chaos, does that not mean they are all mafia? It makes little sense to claim that 'hanging onto' Ketomai creates chaos. If it did, then Keto could give us some samples of these mafia people, but he neglects to do so. Then, he claims that the town is being manipulated. Manipulated by who? Mafia? At first Keto claims the people hanging on are creating chaos (mafia), and then claims they are being manipulated (unfortunate townie). Such incongruity, what does he really believe? Seems like mafia making stuff up. It seems like a mafia gambit to lash out against the town for calling him out. It's scattershot, to say the least.He furthers his campaign by implying that these same people are not looking 'objectively' at the game, which essentially calls them bad. The entire post is steeped in a negative tone, calling the town bad, and they should lose the game if they lynch him. Doesn't appear very townie at all to me. In addition, he calls his own posts 'random comments'. If they are not relevant, and just 'random comments', then why make them? Town have a purpose to voting and making comments: to discern who is mafia. Mafia make random comments for no reason to appear active. I can think of one town intention to making this post: if the townie is very mad, and wants to make the point that the points against him are bad. This intention can also be that of scum. The manner by which he executes his post, however, appears to be that of mafia because of it's totally aggressive, generalizing, and omgus nature. On June 11 2014 12:23 ketomai wrote: Anyone who is taking round or your comments about me seriously. If you don't believe me, filter my posts and look where I began posting. The initial comment was pretty innocuous; the rest are to try to calm down round for the benefit of the town and round himself. I'm not the one trying to distract town with useless material. I'm actually done here. I'll be returning with a content-filled post tomorrow instead of clogging up the thread and the town agenda with this garbage. What does Ketomai do in the bolded statement? He attempts to deflect pressure off of himself and onto Round and other townies pushing him. Apparently, Round and company are "trying to distract the town with useless material". This is just another snippet of Keto calling the points on him bad and putting the pressure back onto people he doesn't even believe are mafia. After these posts Ketomai takes a large haitus, KoC mafia gets lynched. I actually don't mind some of the posts that ensue. The reads on Sinani and Exo aren't out of the question, and I don't disagree with some of the brief analysis, but it is nothing stunning to me. He steps up his play which is a +1 in his favor. But I don't like this post: Blue talk, seems ironic that we shouldn't be talking about MZ being the vig, yet Keto is talking about MZ being the vig. Seems like an easy attack on MiF though. If MiF is town I really won't like this post. Some useless bussing speculation that won't have any relevance unless marv survives until endgame. Noticed this contradiction too: Keto's read on Koshi day 1: Keto's take on Koshi day 2: Keto leans mafia on Koshi day 1, but then on Day 2 he claims that Koshi's votes looked town? I assume Keto means Koshi ended up on KoC day 1, which indicates town. But previously, Keto was explaining how easy of a bus KoC could have been. Seems odd to me. What is most intriguing to me are these two sentences: "His day 2 vote looks a little strange since he defended kush before and he's also made a play to swing the bandwagon momentum in a huge way for a shitty reason. I pretty much started ignoring him after his first content post". Ketomai claims that he "pretty much started ignoring him after his first content post", and that he "hasn't looked into Koshi". But, somehow he knows EXACTLY what Koshi has been doing. He knows Koshi had a day 2 vote on Kush. He knows he made a play to swing bandwagon momentum for a 'shitty reason'. How can Ketomai know these things, and have an opinion on them, if he HASN'T LOOKED INTO KOSHI. How can he say this if he STARTED IGNORING HIM AFTER HIS FIRST CONTENT POST. Also, why would you ignore someone you originally had a scumread on? Day 1 Koshi was slightly scum, and Keto wanted to look more into him. This seems like a terrible incongruity and a lie. I like these reasons for Ketomai being mafia. His day 1 play was incredibly mafia-looking, and some of the stuff that's followed has either been null or mafia-oriented to me. ##Vote: Ketomai Thank you! Let's get something going. ##Vote: Ketomai | ||
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
Also fuck this game if MiF is actually town I'm fucking disappointed, aren't those guys supposed to be amazing at this game? You know what? We actually need to lynch the shit out of him. If he's town and he doesn't care enough to stop his own mislynch that's playing against his wincon. ##Unvote: ##Vote: MattisFoolish I'm sick of people not playing the game and making themselves impossible to read. If you are town and lurking / trolling start playing the game. But everyone needs to do analysis and post reads and not JUST lynch a lurker. | ||
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
On June 18 2014 00:20 marvellosity wrote: Really wish I'd gone through with killing mif yesterday. I really wish I would have just dropped haru and killed mif | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Vote Count - Day 3: gumshoe (4): Holyflare, mattisfoolish (3): ObiWanShinobi, strongandbig, Rainbows ritoky (1): 27ninjabunnies strongandbig (1): Chairman Ray Ketomai (1): Not voting (-): A wretched hive of scum and villainy Currently gumshoe is set to be lynched with 4 votes! Day will end in Remember: Voting is mandatory and has to be done in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451311-tl-order-lxvi-thread-for-doing-of-the-voting If there is a tie, the first person to reach that number of votes is lynched. Please contact the mods if the vote count is incorrect. Thank you! | ||
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