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Ok guys, I knew I would have very limited time to post these past two days. I was planning to post an intro on the first day when the game started, but Amiko delayed the game and I figured I wouldn't have had much to say day 1 anyways for me to justify staying up to 2 AM posting at my grandma's computer.
I'll have a lot more time to spend tomorrow when I get back home. I got about 2 hours now that I'll spend reading through the thread and bringing up anything I see that stands out to me I guess.
As for introduction,
Behold, it is I, Epishade, keeper of nights, savior of world, and browser of naked ladies! This is my 2.5th mafia game. Many of you (only Meat) should remember me from my first mafia game, where I won the game for town by slaying the last mafia member in a bout of intense bravery and courage! I also played briefly in a second mafia game where it had to be restarted after Squirt ruined it by asking about coaches a day after the game started. I was mafia in that game, and was quite upset because I was being read as town early on. I /outed after the reset, so I don't consider that a real game.
Anyways, I'll start reading through and I'll try to come up with some reads. Sorry for not being able to post earlier again.
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On June 22 2014 13:33 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 13:12 Epishade wrote: Ok guys, I knew I would have very limited time to post these past two days. I was planning to post an intro on the first day when the game started, but Amiko delayed the game and I figured I wouldn't have had much to say day 1 anyways for me to justify staying up to 2 AM posting at my grandma's computer.
I'll have a lot more time to spend tomorrow when I get back home. I got about 2 hours now that I'll spend reading through the thread and bringing up anything I see that stands out to me I guess.
As for introduction,
Behold, it is I, Epishade, keeper of nights, savior of world, and browser of naked ladies! This is my 2.5th mafia game. Many of you (only Meat) should remember me from my first mafia game, where I won the game for town by slaying the last mafia member in a bout of intense bravery and courage! I also played briefly in a second mafia game where it had to be restarted after Squirt ruined it by asking about coaches a day after the game started. I was mafia in that game, and was quite upset because I was being read as town early on. I /outed after the reset, so I don't consider that a real game.
Anyways, I'll start reading through and I'll try to come up with some reads. Sorry for not being able to post earlier again. Hey, I won the last game through slaying the last mafia in a lylo situation too, despite everyone objecting to the lynch. Sqrtneg1 spoilt it* Yea, was a pity you left that game. But town won.
Well, it was a 'first to reach 2 votes' lynch, which kinda sucked because nobody convinced Sqrt (I think) to change his vote, and so it was pretty much a 50-50 chance of winning or losing because of no vote consolidation. I think my hero status in my game was much more than your hero status in your game ^^.
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Ok, so I tried reading through, and there's some that stood out to me a little. I hate the idea of getting reads day 1, since it always seems like it's a crapshoot, but I guess that's unavoidable anyways. That's kinda to be expected in TL mafia I think.
The 2 people that stood out to me most, was Templar and Teemursu.
Of course, it's still day 1, and we don't know jack, so my ideas here could be absolutely wrong (and they most likely are).
Just from the looks of it, Templar seems to me to be townie so far. He's been posting a lot and replying to a lot of posts directed at him. Generally, too, when I think things to myself, and other people agree with what I'm currently thinking, I place those people in my town pile. I put Templar in there for his suspicion against Teemursu, which I had as well. Though he ultimately decided to vote on Scott, which I also believe to be a justified vote thus far. Sure, I guess a mafia could have done either just as well, so I generally don't put a lot of faith into day 1 reads. Just, so far, he's most townie to me right now.
I would like him to answer one thing I saw him post that seemed a little weird to me.
On June 22 2014 07:39 The_Templar wrote:Responses to recent posts in this thread.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 01:24 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 01:11 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 01:03 Hobbitus wrote:On June 22 2014 00:41 HaruRH wrote:On June 22 2014 00:14 Hobbitus wrote:On June 22 2014 00:01 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:59 Hobbitus wrote:On June 21 2014 23:51 HaruRH wrote:
Uh, do you really think this is a play? No, that's my point. Meatpudding is saying that's a play, but I don't think so. IF it is though, I think it'd be more likely that one is town and one is scum than both being scum. If you don't think it's a play, do you have a specific reasoning for that? Who do you think is the town/scum? Well like I said, it seems very obvious/early for a play? One "hey I think you're towny" post does not a scumteam make. It's more like you're sniffing out reads to me. That being said, if it is a play I'd say you're more likely than Templar to be scum just because you do have such polarized reactions to people. Now, you're raising flags here. I don't want to spoil your mood but once the day goes into full gear, you will only see one-sided polarised arguments filled with tunnel vision of each other. Also, by calling out the 'play', and yet saying you think it's too obvious/early for plays you're contradicting yourself. I know it's going to go into tunnel vision, but I don't think there is enough info out there for that to have happened so far, and yet you have a pretty strong opinion on most people already. To me that suggests a strategy of some kind. What that strategy is, I don't know. To clarify, I don't think you and Templar were buddying up like meatpudding (not I) suggested. The idea of THAT play seems too obvious and early. Reaction testing, he does this in video, neither town nor scum I'm going to step out of haiku mode for this one because I made an error. I thought this was a conversation between Hobbitus and Teemu. I'm slightly sleep deprived and know Teemu outside of TL Mafia so feel inclined to defend him without having an actual reason to think that he's not scum. Fair enough. Just make sure you're not confusing Teemu and Haru in the future, as that will get confusing really quick. I wonder why Haru jumped in so suddenly but I guess he could do this a lot, not sure yet. I'm watching your posting pattern so that I make sure you're consistent on what you've stated here. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 01:39 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:59 Teemursu wrote:Yeah, I'm probably the most serious person you'll meet on this forum.  I actually kinda like this read. Feels like it's coming from a towny perspective. We -are- all new here and some are playing for the first time, and your read has that ring to it. As someone who plays with you a lot in video mafia, I feel like this is not a typical read of yours. Seems a bit forced, and I hope that it's a reaction test. If it is, I'd like you to explain what you got from it. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town?TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. I don't think scum align themselves so quickly. The read seems a bit weak but I don't necessarily think it comes from scum. Your read on TheKingOfCats seems to come from a towny perspective. Not sure what to think of you yet but leaning town. Keep in mind that people could act differently in forum mafia. More on this later on, I explained it better then and I don't want to duplicate in this post. Personally, in the sc2 mod mafia, I watch people and jump out at them when they're unsure to trip them up, but this doesn't work in forum mafia (I tried in the TL+ game). So, I am going to watch and observe patterns, trying to figure out where everyone's going and what their plan is. I know this part of my post is a bit vague but hopefully I'll be able to show what I mean a bit better as the game goes on. Now, in your reply to meatpudding, why is that -any- different than Teemu's post on me? Neither are particularly strong and assume a lot of stuff. Teemu assumes that we're all figuring things out as we go, and it's town to realize that, and meatpudding guesses the motivation behind someone pressuring him on day 1. So what's the difference? + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 01:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:52 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. So I didn't specifically call you out. Apparently I got a reaction anyway, which is good, considering I just said I only pinged you out. I don't feel like TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch you at all, and I'm not sure how I should read your defensiveness about that (new player/mafia being pushed). He did give a fence read on you though. Like, It's obvious that we should lynch people who don't contribute at all. He's someone I'm going to keep my eye on. Please explain to me how i gave a fence read on meatpudding when i didn't give a read on him at all. Hehe, you didn't at all, in fact you even said there was no read on him yet specifically (A null read according to some guy). You did say that (obviously) we should lynch meatpudding if he's not contributing. (Not sure why you even bother to say it, it's like a universal truth in these games). + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 02:00 Teemursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 01:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:52 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. So I didn't specifically call you out. Apparently I got a reaction anyway, which is good, considering I just said I only pinged you out. I don't feel like TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch you at all, and I'm not sure how I should read your defensiveness about that (new player/mafia being pushed). He did give a fence read on you though. Like, It's obvious that we should lynch people who don't contribute at all. He's someone I'm going to keep my eye on. Please explain to me how i gave a fence read on meatpudding when i didn't give a read on him at all. Will do. Show nested quote + It's too early for me to have any reads. Seeing as this is Meatpudding's first game i don't think his post was alignment indicative but if he doesn't contribute anything he'll be a good lynch regardless of his alignment.
Saying his post wasn't alignment indicative is still giving a read on him. You're evaluating his post and coming to a null conclusion. Also, I don't feel like you said much in general in the two lines of text that you wrote, since stating that people who don't contribute are good lynches is A) very obvious B) continuing to talk about Meatpudding in a null manner. I would say it's not a read because you can't read into it. Looking at it again, I do agree that Cat's post was a little too passive. Probably because he's not contributing much, as he said he wouldn't.  + Show Spoiler +Now, I see a few people saying that meatpudding is scummy. Not seeing it personally. He only has two significant posts: On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. On June 22 2014 00:14 meatpudding wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:59 Hobbitus wrote:On June 21 2014 23:51 HaruRH wrote:On June 21 2014 23:44 Hobbitus wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:
But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course.
Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town?
TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. That seems like too obvious a play to me? I could see one or the other being scum but not both. Uh, do you really think this is a play? No, that's my point. Meatpudding is saying that's a play, but I don't think so. IF it is though, I think it'd be more likely that one is town and one is scum than both being scum. Would like to hear your thoughts as well. Do you have any reasoning to think that either would be scum? Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:59 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 22:53 The_Templar wrote:On June 21 2014 22:48 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 20:57 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 20:48 HaruRH wrote:On June 21 2014 20:41 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Hello people, i have a stupid username. I've been playing mafia on OMGUS (TL's evil twin that's locked in the basement and fed a bucket of fish heads every night) since last october. Between then and now i was somehow voted season 2 best town so if my play is terrible it's pretty much a certainty that i'm scum.  Yea your scum play is horrible, to the extent of nearly being modkilled. I hope you aren't going to afk :/ I should be more active this game because i actually know how to play town. I was quiet in my last game because i have no idea what i'm doing as scum. How was i nearly modkilled in that game? How DO you play town? Let's talk! Do you read into tone perhaps? Who do you like/dislike? There's this guy named Teemursu who's taking things really seriously at the beginning of day 1. In all seriousness, no reads for me yet as we've just introduced each other. Meatpudding's joke seemed a bit… random, (trying to get things friendly between everyone perhaps?) but I don't think it really means anything. Yeah, I'm probably the most serious person you'll meet on this forum.  I actually kinda like this read. Feels like it's coming from a towny perspective. We -are- all new here and some are playing for the first time, and your read has that ring to it. This post specifically makes me wonder. If Teemu is scum then I would say Templar is as well. Yeah, it's an obvious play, but if it's not a play then is there any reason to suspect either of them? All he's done is point out that Teemu agreed with my intentions (which apparently means we're both mafia), and that he was slightly pressured by Cats. This is in two posts. The Cats part is pretty straightforward and I covered it earlier in this post, so I'll focus on the pointing out of Teemu quickly siding with me. The first day is very slow compared to video mafia. Teemu is a video mafia player in general, which means he might be used to taking a side quickly and seeing how things develop (which they do at a blistering pace) (I don't know him very well, these are assumptions). I'm not particularly familiar with that side of mafia (although I play the sc2 mod, I really just lurk in the shadows and attack suspicious people), but I would assume that this is fairly normal. I did see a post that mentioned that Teemu's style is different than that, so I don't really know- perhaps he's trying to adapt but only being partially successful? I'm not really suspicious of either meatpudding or Teemu yet. If someone that knows him well explains his style to me, I'll try to see if he's playing weirdly, but someone else will be a better judge of that. This part of the post started with meatpudding and ended in Teemu. I think that the two are connected somehow, but this could be completely baseless. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 05:46 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 02:21 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 02:14 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 02:07 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 01:53 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 01:39 NydusHerMain wrote:
As someone who plays with you a lot in video mafia, I feel like this is not a typical read of yours. Seems a bit forced, and I hope that it's a reaction test. If it is, I'd like you to explain what you got from it.
Why does it seem forced? I'm not reaction testing him. I did get a towny feel from what he said in the brackets.
I don't think scum align themselves so quickly. The read seems a bit weak but I don't necessarily think it comes from scum. Your read on TheKingOfCats seems to come from a towny perspective. Not sure what to think of you yet but leaning town.
I don't really hear you giving town/scum perspective reads either. I didn't necessarily read his defensiveness caused by TheKingOfCats's null read to come from a towny perspective. Could you specifically explain that read? When I play with you in video mafia, your town reads come from hearing people give several reads, and deciding on whether or not you like their logic. Seeing you give a quick town read for something very small that I personally don't see as being particularly alignment indicative is very weird from you. Perhaps your playstyle is different on forum mafia but if this were video mafia, you'd be quick to drop into my scum list. Having played with me before, you should know that my town and scum reads come from small things that people do or say whereas your reads come from a bigger picture. Reading the posts again, I realize that TheKingOfCats didn't even give a null read, rather, he gave no read at all. Meatpudding's defensiveness actually does seem scummy. I am getting names mixed up and should read more carefully. Personally, I feel like I'm expressing things here that I don't normally bother saying in video. I agree with you getting town reads from small things, but I rarely hear you explain reads by saying from which alignment/perspective players are telling their reads. In either case, we should evaluate each other based on this game alone. Discussing how our play might differ from different form of mafia is probably not going to give us much. In any case, what's your read on TheKingOfCats? My read on TheKingOfCats so far is that he is potential scum with MeatPudding. On June 21 2014 23:17 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:51 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 22:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:46 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. I don't like this. What don't you like about it? The joke felt forced. Admitting to lurking and not at least saying you'll have more reads later on in the day rings scummy to me. Anyway, I just wanted to ping someone out. Do you have any early reads? It's too early for me to have any reads. Seeing as this is Meatpudding's first game i don't think his post was alignment indicative but if he doesn't contribute anything he'll be a good lynch regardless of his alignment. On June 22 2014 01:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:52 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. So I didn't specifically call you out. Apparently I got a reaction anyway, which is good, considering I just said I only pinged you out. I don't feel like TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch you at all, and I'm not sure how I should read your defensiveness about that (new player/mafia being pushed). He did give a fence read on you though. Like, It's obvious that we should lynch people who don't contribute at all. He's someone I'm going to keep my eye on. Please explain to me how i gave a fence read on meatpudding when i didn't give a read on him at all. I find it weird that TheKingOfCats' first reaction is to question Teemu on a supposed "null read" when I feel like MeatPudding saying that TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch him (pretty much saying that TheKingOfCats has a scum read on him) is a much scummier thing. I didn't really see his post as scummy just poorly worded, plus people had already jumped on it so i didn't need to ask him myself. It does look a bit odd, though. Meatpudding seems to have reacted, a lot, to your post. Definitely more than you were intending considering you were trying to be passive about it. Why? Well, he could be scum. I don't know his skill level but his responses actually made it look like (to the rest of the town) that you were pressuring him, and I guess that could translate to being mafia. Not sure.
My reads so far: (also TLDR) -Suspecting Nydus because he's got multiple standards on whether seeing something from a towny perspective is ok. -No idea on meatpudding, so Null read for now and I'll change it later. I think it will be resolved by the end of the day. -Cats is more involved than I thought he would be. But he's not doing anything in particular. Asking for more than he has. -Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure. I have come to two conclusions: -Cats is my best guess at this point for scum. -I'm not nearly as good as I thought I was. This has already gotten too complicated for simple analysis. 
@Templar, what did you mean with these sentences about Teemursu? What was the "But he thinks I'm town." clause supposed to contradict?
As for Teemursu, he's got a few posts that make me a little suspicious.
On June 21 2014 22:51 Teemursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:46 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. I don't like this. What don't you like about it? The joke felt forced. Admitting to lurking and not at least saying you'll have more reads later on in the day rings scummy to me. Anyway, I just wanted to ping someone out. Do you have any early reads? Someone making a joke that Teemursu thought felt forced sounded scummy to him doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I realize that generally, people like others to post more than lurk, but pudding admitting that he probably won't post that much doesn't sound all that scummy to me. He's never played before on TL (afaik), so we have no way of knowing his true posting style. He could just be upfront about the way he thinks he's going to post, but that doesn't ring scummy to me. Doesn't read town for me either, he just wants people to know his posting style so we don't lynch him for lurking, instead of actual content he produces.
On June 21 2014 23:58 Teemursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:54 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 21 2014 22:48 Solar424 wrote: Hello. I am new to TL, and this is the first time playing Mafia online, bu I know the rules. Feeling a bit rushed, spelling error, no details, I think you are scum Hi, Nydus. It's going to be an interesting challenge to try to read you. I expect a lot from your haiku mastery. May they be plentiful and insightful. 8O) Does anybody else think that this doesn't sound like something that a townie might say? "It's going to be an interesting challenge to try to read you." Maybe I'm being pedantic here, but that sounds like something a mafia would say in an attempt to sound like town. I couldn't see a town saying that, but maybe I'm overthinking it, idk.
Actually, I thought I had another point to bring up against you, but I reread one of your posts with a bunch of quoted spoilers and realized I misread it.
Well, that was mostly the dirt I came up with on you two. Only other suspicious post I saw was about Haruhi.
On June 22 2014 11:14 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 08:15 Lord Tolkien wrote:There really isn't much to say right now. All I can say is that Teemursu is my only solid read for me atm (as town). While Nydus has played with him before and says this behavior is alignment-null, he's instigating the scumhunting that town sorely needs early D1. As a result, I would peg him as town (or at least, a non-viable D1 lynch). That being said, I don't agree with any of the early lynch candidates thus far (as in, I don't have a strong enough read on any of them currently), and would rather lynch a lurker at this point in time. That includes scott, because his post was pretty much a non-response. Of Cats or meatpudding, if I had to choose a D1 lynch atm, I'd vote meatpudding solely based on thread contribution. -Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure.
My general impression of mafia players in my limited experience is that they work to distance themselves as much as possible. I personally do not read too much into it atm; without a flip it's speculation. Lord tolkien, this is the wrong way to approach forum mafia. In forum mafia, you lynch for scum ONLY, not for information/clearing lurkers/usefulness to town. We usually clear lurkers with cops and people useful to town will die quick to mafia anyway. I have a feeling you knew this. Coupled with how you wanted to go with meatpudding but went with scott just for a wagon, you're playing really scummy. ##Vote: lord tolkien
At this point in the game, I'm going to have to disagree with Haruhi. How could we possibly know who scum is on day one? I have a feeling that Teemursu is possible scum, but I'm not going to vote for Teemursu just yet because he's talking a lot and being active. If he turned out to be actual town that'd be even worse had we voted him off because he was an active contributor. If we get rid of all the active townies, then mafia has a significantly better shot at winning. Token's voting for Scott as someone who hasn't contributed much, which seems justified enough to me. In my first game I voted off a non-contributing townie, and I'd probably do it again, as he didn't defend himself well enough to sway votes off of him.
I personally, though, think that your pushing on Token was too hard, even voting for him so quickly, for it to be scummy though. I'd think a scum wouldn't want to put themselves out like that so easily. So, though I disagree with you for now, that doesn't mean I think you're scum. I'd say you were town for making a move that I found questionable, but only because I think a scum would be better than to make a move so rash. It's all pretty much impossible to tell anyways though.
Again, I tend not to put a lot of thought into day 1 posts. I did on my first mafia game and everything I had gathered at that point turned out to be wrong. I don't want that to happen again here.
Well, I spent an hour and a half writing this out. It's almost 2 now, so I should probably get some sleep. Usually I can stay up a lot later guys, but I'm not at my house right now, so it's not an option right now. Tomorrow I should be able to post more if I see anything I want to add, but I'm getting off for tonight after I post this and refresh. KK.
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Ok, I just got back home guys. Reading through.
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On June 22 2014 15:34 Teemursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 14:42 Epishade wrote: Does anybody else think that this doesn't sound like something that a townie might say? "It's going to be an interesting challenge to try to read you." Maybe I'm being pedantic here, but that sounds like something a mafia would say in an attempt to sound like town. I couldn't see a town saying that, but maybe I'm overthinking it, idk.
Actually, I thought I had another point to bring up against you, but I reread one of your posts with a bunch of quoted spoilers and realized I misread it.
Well, that was mostly the dirt I came up with on you two. Only other suspicious post I saw was about Haruhi.
What's your read on Nydus? My question and interaction comes from knowing him from video mafia and having played a lot of games with him. Show nested quote + At this point in the game, I'm going to have to disagree with Haruhi. How could we possibly know who scum is on day one? I have a feeling that Teemursu is possible scum, but I'm not going to vote for Teemursu just yet because he's talking a lot and being active. If he turned out to be actual town that'd be even worse had we voted him off because he was an active contributor.
I feel like you keep contradicting yourself. I'm being active and trying to scum hunt (as you seem to agree), while you say we can't possibly know who the scum is D1 and you're having suspicion on me based on my early reads on small things, which are generally strong and creating discussion anyway. When I say we can't possibly know who scum is D1, that doesn't mean I won't hold suspicions. I just mean to say that I'd much rather get rid of non-contributors or lurkers than someone who is talking at least. It might not be exactly the best move, as mafia can often talk quite a bit, but it's the best way that I see fit to play. Unless something really stands out to me as scummy, I'm generally not going to vote for someone who's talking a lot D1. You haven't said anything too scummy anyways at this point. I see a lot of people voting on meat, so I'm gonna take a look at that after I post this.
As for Nydus, nothing he said sounded scummy to me either. He abandoned the speaking in haiku pretty quickly, which I thought was a little funny, but not really alignment indicative. In fact, I think what he said to Templar here gives me a slight town lead on him.
On June 22 2014 08:58 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 08:15 Lord Tolkien wrote:There really isn't much to say right now. All I can say is that Teemursu is my only solid read for me atm (as town). While Nydus has played with him before and says this behavior is alignment-null, he's instigating the scumhunting that town sorely needs early D1. As a result, I would peg him as town (or at least, a non-viable D1 lynch).That being said, I don't agree with any of the early lynch candidates thus far (as in, I don't have a strong enough read on any of them currently), and would rather lynch a lurker at this point in time. That includes scott, because his post was pretty much a non-response. Of Cats or meatpudding, if I had to choose a D1 lynch atm, I'd vote meatpudding solely based on thread contribution. -Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure.
My general impression of mafia players in my limited experience is that they work to distance themselves as much as possible. I personally do not read too much into it atm; without a flip it's speculation. Not only that but Teemu agrees with me on TheKingOfCats. Although I agree with people that we should vote a lurker, considering the large number of lurkers and the fact that it's a newbie game, I don't think being a lurker is necessarily indicative of scum. On the other game, I do see people trying to contribute and looking scum whilst doing it. I'd rather vote on someone who I think is the scummiest than RNG a vote and potentially hit a cop. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 07:39 The_Templar wrote:Responses to recent posts in this thread.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 01:24 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 01:11 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 01:03 Hobbitus wrote:On June 22 2014 00:41 HaruRH wrote:On June 22 2014 00:14 Hobbitus wrote:On June 22 2014 00:01 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:59 Hobbitus wrote:On June 21 2014 23:51 HaruRH wrote:
Uh, do you really think this is a play? No, that's my point. Meatpudding is saying that's a play, but I don't think so. IF it is though, I think it'd be more likely that one is town and one is scum than both being scum. If you don't think it's a play, do you have a specific reasoning for that? Who do you think is the town/scum? Well like I said, it seems very obvious/early for a play? One "hey I think you're towny" post does not a scumteam make. It's more like you're sniffing out reads to me. That being said, if it is a play I'd say you're more likely than Templar to be scum just because you do have such polarized reactions to people. Now, you're raising flags here. I don't want to spoil your mood but once the day goes into full gear, you will only see one-sided polarised arguments filled with tunnel vision of each other. Also, by calling out the 'play', and yet saying you think it's too obvious/early for plays you're contradicting yourself. I know it's going to go into tunnel vision, but I don't think there is enough info out there for that to have happened so far, and yet you have a pretty strong opinion on most people already. To me that suggests a strategy of some kind. What that strategy is, I don't know. To clarify, I don't think you and Templar were buddying up like meatpudding (not I) suggested. The idea of THAT play seems too obvious and early. Reaction testing, he does this in video, neither town nor scum I'm going to step out of haiku mode for this one because I made an error. I thought this was a conversation between Hobbitus and Teemu. I'm slightly sleep deprived and know Teemu outside of TL Mafia so feel inclined to defend him without having an actual reason to think that he's not scum. Fair enough. Just make sure you're not confusing Teemu and Haru in the future, as that will get confusing really quick. I wonder why Haru jumped in so suddenly but I guess he could do this a lot, not sure yet. I'm watching your posting pattern so that I make sure you're consistent on what you've stated here. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 01:39 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:59 Teemursu wrote:Yeah, I'm probably the most serious person you'll meet on this forum.  I actually kinda like this read. Feels like it's coming from a towny perspective. We -are- all new here and some are playing for the first time, and your read has that ring to it. As someone who plays with you a lot in video mafia, I feel like this is not a typical read of yours. Seems a bit forced, and I hope that it's a reaction test. If it is, I'd like you to explain what you got from it. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town?TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. I don't think scum align themselves so quickly. The read seems a bit weak but I don't necessarily think it comes from scum. Your read on TheKingOfCats seems to come from a towny perspective. Not sure what to think of you yet but leaning town. Keep in mind that people could act differently in forum mafia. More on this later on, I explained it better then and I don't want to duplicate in this post. Personally, in the sc2 mod mafia, I watch people and jump out at them when they're unsure to trip them up, but this doesn't work in forum mafia (I tried in the TL+ game). So, I am going to watch and observe patterns, trying to figure out where everyone's going and what their plan is. I know this part of my post is a bit vague but hopefully I'll be able to show what I mean a bit better as the game goes on. Now, in your reply to meatpudding, why is that -any- different than Teemu's post on me? Neither are particularly strong and assume a lot of stuff. Teemu assumes that we're all figuring things out as we go, and it's town to realize that, and meatpudding guesses the motivation behind someone pressuring him on day 1. So what's the difference? + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 01:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:52 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. So I didn't specifically call you out. Apparently I got a reaction anyway, which is good, considering I just said I only pinged you out. I don't feel like TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch you at all, and I'm not sure how I should read your defensiveness about that (new player/mafia being pushed). He did give a fence read on you though. Like, It's obvious that we should lynch people who don't contribute at all. He's someone I'm going to keep my eye on. Please explain to me how i gave a fence read on meatpudding when i didn't give a read on him at all. Hehe, you didn't at all, in fact you even said there was no read on him yet specifically (A null read according to some guy). You did say that (obviously) we should lynch meatpudding if he's not contributing. (Not sure why you even bother to say it, it's like a universal truth in these games). + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 02:00 Teemursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 01:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:52 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. So I didn't specifically call you out. Apparently I got a reaction anyway, which is good, considering I just said I only pinged you out. I don't feel like TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch you at all, and I'm not sure how I should read your defensiveness about that (new player/mafia being pushed). He did give a fence read on you though. Like, It's obvious that we should lynch people who don't contribute at all. He's someone I'm going to keep my eye on. Please explain to me how i gave a fence read on meatpudding when i didn't give a read on him at all. Will do. Show nested quote + It's too early for me to have any reads. Seeing as this is Meatpudding's first game i don't think his post was alignment indicative but if he doesn't contribute anything he'll be a good lynch regardless of his alignment.
Saying his post wasn't alignment indicative is still giving a read on him. You're evaluating his post and coming to a null conclusion. Also, I don't feel like you said much in general in the two lines of text that you wrote, since stating that people who don't contribute are good lynches is A) very obvious B) continuing to talk about Meatpudding in a null manner. I would say it's not a read because you can't read into it. Looking at it again, I do agree that Cat's post was a little too passive. Probably because he's not contributing much, as he said he wouldn't.  + Show Spoiler +Now, I see a few people saying that meatpudding is scummy. Not seeing it personally. He only has two significant posts: On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. On June 22 2014 00:14 meatpudding wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:59 Hobbitus wrote:On June 21 2014 23:51 HaruRH wrote:On June 21 2014 23:44 Hobbitus wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:
But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course.
Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town?
TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. That seems like too obvious a play to me? I could see one or the other being scum but not both. Uh, do you really think this is a play? No, that's my point. Meatpudding is saying that's a play, but I don't think so. IF it is though, I think it'd be more likely that one is town and one is scum than both being scum. Would like to hear your thoughts as well. Do you have any reasoning to think that either would be scum? Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:59 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 22:53 The_Templar wrote:On June 21 2014 22:48 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 20:57 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 20:48 HaruRH wrote:On June 21 2014 20:41 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Hello people, i have a stupid username. I've been playing mafia on OMGUS (TL's evil twin that's locked in the basement and fed a bucket of fish heads every night) since last october. Between then and now i was somehow voted season 2 best town so if my play is terrible it's pretty much a certainty that i'm scum.  Yea your scum play is horrible, to the extent of nearly being modkilled. I hope you aren't going to afk :/ I should be more active this game because i actually know how to play town. I was quiet in my last game because i have no idea what i'm doing as scum. How was i nearly modkilled in that game? How DO you play town? Let's talk! Do you read into tone perhaps? Who do you like/dislike? There's this guy named Teemursu who's taking things really seriously at the beginning of day 1. In all seriousness, no reads for me yet as we've just introduced each other. Meatpudding's joke seemed a bit… random, (trying to get things friendly between everyone perhaps?) but I don't think it really means anything. Yeah, I'm probably the most serious person you'll meet on this forum.  I actually kinda like this read. Feels like it's coming from a towny perspective. We -are- all new here and some are playing for the first time, and your read has that ring to it. This post specifically makes me wonder. If Teemu is scum then I would say Templar is as well. Yeah, it's an obvious play, but if it's not a play then is there any reason to suspect either of them? All he's done is point out that Teemu agreed with my intentions (which apparently means we're both mafia), and that he was slightly pressured by Cats. This is in two posts. The Cats part is pretty straightforward and I covered it earlier in this post, so I'll focus on the pointing out of Teemu quickly siding with me. The first day is very slow compared to video mafia. Teemu is a video mafia player in general, which means he might be used to taking a side quickly and seeing how things develop (which they do at a blistering pace) (I don't know him very well, these are assumptions). I'm not particularly familiar with that side of mafia (although I play the sc2 mod, I really just lurk in the shadows and attack suspicious people), but I would assume that this is fairly normal. I did see a post that mentioned that Teemu's style is different than that, so I don't really know- perhaps he's trying to adapt but only being partially successful? I'm not really suspicious of either meatpudding or Teemu yet. If someone that knows him well explains his style to me, I'll try to see if he's playing weirdly, but someone else will be a better judge of that. This part of the post started with meatpudding and ended in Teemu. I think that the two are connected somehow, but this could be completely baseless. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 05:46 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 02:21 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 02:14 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 02:07 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 01:53 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 01:39 NydusHerMain wrote:
As someone who plays with you a lot in video mafia, I feel like this is not a typical read of yours. Seems a bit forced, and I hope that it's a reaction test. If it is, I'd like you to explain what you got from it.
Why does it seem forced? I'm not reaction testing him. I did get a towny feel from what he said in the brackets.
I don't think scum align themselves so quickly. The read seems a bit weak but I don't necessarily think it comes from scum. Your read on TheKingOfCats seems to come from a towny perspective. Not sure what to think of you yet but leaning town.
I don't really hear you giving town/scum perspective reads either. I didn't necessarily read his defensiveness caused by TheKingOfCats's null read to come from a towny perspective. Could you specifically explain that read? When I play with you in video mafia, your town reads come from hearing people give several reads, and deciding on whether or not you like their logic. Seeing you give a quick town read for something very small that I personally don't see as being particularly alignment indicative is very weird from you. Perhaps your playstyle is different on forum mafia but if this were video mafia, you'd be quick to drop into my scum list. Having played with me before, you should know that my town and scum reads come from small things that people do or say whereas your reads come from a bigger picture. Reading the posts again, I realize that TheKingOfCats didn't even give a null read, rather, he gave no read at all. Meatpudding's defensiveness actually does seem scummy. I am getting names mixed up and should read more carefully. Personally, I feel like I'm expressing things here that I don't normally bother saying in video. I agree with you getting town reads from small things, but I rarely hear you explain reads by saying from which alignment/perspective players are telling their reads. In either case, we should evaluate each other based on this game alone. Discussing how our play might differ from different form of mafia is probably not going to give us much. In any case, what's your read on TheKingOfCats? My read on TheKingOfCats so far is that he is potential scum with MeatPudding. On June 21 2014 23:17 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:51 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 22:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:46 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. I don't like this. What don't you like about it? The joke felt forced. Admitting to lurking and not at least saying you'll have more reads later on in the day rings scummy to me. Anyway, I just wanted to ping someone out. Do you have any early reads? It's too early for me to have any reads. Seeing as this is Meatpudding's first game i don't think his post was alignment indicative but if he doesn't contribute anything he'll be a good lynch regardless of his alignment. On June 22 2014 01:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:52 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote: Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes. I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e. I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though). My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar. I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote: Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. So I didn't specifically call you out. Apparently I got a reaction anyway, which is good, considering I just said I only pinged you out. I don't feel like TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch you at all, and I'm not sure how I should read your defensiveness about that (new player/mafia being pushed). He did give a fence read on you though. Like, It's obvious that we should lynch people who don't contribute at all. He's someone I'm going to keep my eye on. Please explain to me how i gave a fence read on meatpudding when i didn't give a read on him at all. I find it weird that TheKingOfCats' first reaction is to question Teemu on a supposed "null read" when I feel like MeatPudding saying that TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch him (pretty much saying that TheKingOfCats has a scum read on him) is a much scummier thing. I didn't really see his post as scummy just poorly worded, plus people had already jumped on it so i didn't need to ask him myself. It does look a bit odd, though. Meatpudding seems to have reacted, a lot, to your post. Definitely more than you were intending considering you were trying to be passive about it. Why? Well, he could be scum. I don't know his skill level but his responses actually made it look like (to the rest of the town) that you were pressuring him, and I guess that could translate to being mafia. Not sure.
My reads so far: (also TLDR) -Suspecting Nydus because he's got multiple standards on whether seeing something from a towny perspective is ok. -No idea on meatpudding, so Null read for now and I'll change it later. I think it will be resolved by the end of the day. -Cats is more involved than I thought he would be. But he's not doing anything in particular. Asking for more than he has. -Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure. I have come to two conclusions: -Cats is my best guess at this point for scum. -I'm not nearly as good as I thought I was. This has already gotten too complicated for simple analysis.  + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 08:20 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 08:15 Lord Tolkien wrote:There really isn't much to say right now. All I can say is that Teemursu is my only solid read for me atm (as town). While Nydus has played with him before and says this behavior is alignment-null, he's instigating the scumhunting that town sorely needs early D1. As a result, I would peg him as town (or at least, a non-viable D1 lynch). That being said, I don't agree with any of the early lynch candidates thus far (as in, I don't have a strong enough read on any of them currently), and would rather lynch a lurker at this point in time. That includes scott, because his post was pretty much a non-response. Of Cats or meatpudding, if I had to choose a D1 lynch atm, I'd vote meatpudding solely based on thread contribution. -Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure.
My general impression of mafia players in my limited experience is that they work to distance themselves as much as possible. I personally do not read too much into it atm; without a flip it's speculation. Personally, I don't know about Teemu, partly because I don't know about video mafia. I'm going to research this further. Scum-hunting isn't essential on day 1; I think it's more of a developing point in the game but that's just my two cents. I don't like Scott's posts very much. I'd like you to imagine that Teemu had absolutely no experience in video mafia prior to this forum game. I say this because I feel like you're holding back on reading him because of two possible reasons. One, you're used to active day 1 scum hunting as being a mafia tell but I'm telling you that it's not. Two, you're scum trying to give multiple null reads in order to keep your options open in the future. When he's telling Templar to read Teemursu as if he had no video mafia experience prior, it's like he wants Templar to give more information in his reads. I personally didn't really think Templar was holding anything back based on his inexperience with video mafia (I just think he had a null read overall on Teemursu), and I don't exactly know what Nydus hoped to accomplish here in regards to Templar adding anything new, but it seems like a townie move anyways to me. I don't see a scum caring to coach Templar how to more accurately read someone, as much or as little as it may help regardless.
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On June 23 2014 03:52 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 03:42 Epishade wrote: Ok, I just got back home guys. Reading through. Read through my case on meatpudding. I would like your opinion. Alright, so I read through your case. I really wouldn't have read meat any scummy for his previous posts. This is the only post I see as scummy, for reasons that you brought up yourself.
On June 22 2014 20:58 meatpudding wrote: Not very sure how to vote. I could read players that are defensive as scum.
##Vote: HaruRH
Haru is not really pushing town agenda. Asking vague questions, not pushing anyone in particular. Calling out when Hobbitus contradicts herself, does not seem like a good read to me.
I'm still leaning towards Teemu as scum. Teemu and Templar have played before, maybe that is why they are acting familiar, but it seems like Teemu's reads are off.
Cats is asking lots of questions, I am leaning town here.
On Templar, I think only his one long post gives much info. I think he plays town, but could be trying to give false info.
Tolkien seems noncommittal, then starts a bandwagon. Not sure here.
Hobbitus not posting much but looks like town trying to get some early reads.
That's all I have for now.
One thing I dislike is when someone accuses someone else of something without listing specifics. Like, meat here accuses Haruhi of asking vague questions and not pushing town agenda. Without referencing or quoting Haruhi's posts where she actually does this, we have no way to agree or disagree with you without having all the information. meat does specifically mention Hobbitus, but he doesn't elaborate on how that contradicts what Haruhi said. (It might afaik, but quoting specific posts and then explaining your position is still always better and more clear than referencing things).
Idk where he gets his information regarding Teemursu and Templar playing together, but Templar said that was wrong. Idk why he would bring up information that he wasn't completely sure about and saying it with certainty (ie, he didn't say 'I think Teemursu and Templar played together').
His read on Templar is kind of an obvious thing to say to begin with. "I think he plays town, but could be trying to give false info." Well, obviously if Templar were mafia, he'd be likely to give false info that would benefit him more than anything. Saying that he could be giving false info is kind of redundant, unless meat means that he thinks Templar is town, but is still giving false info for whatever reason. Again, there's no elaboration here as to what he thinks might be false or not.
meat gives a lot of reads without going very in-depth with them. It's more than just his vote on Haruhi, which I also disagree with.
I'm not opposed to a meat vote right now.
Vote: meatpudding
@meat, I'm not opposed to changing this either in favor of someone else though. If you can convince me otherwise, I can change.
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On June 23 2014 04:25 Hobbitus wrote:Jabber on Cats: Show nested quote + Cats is asking a lot of questions, which he included in his little how to guide to play town. I also like how he hasn't jumped on a wagon. then Show nested quote + yeah, pudding's a townlean I'd be most comfortable with a tolkien vote, but I want him to read my post about scott and react to it, defend his wagon. I'll agree with a fence on KittyCats, he's asking questions, but I'm noticing a lack of content. Then votes meatpudding? I didn't even notice this.
Though JabberZerg does say he votes just in case so he's not modkilled, I would like a response from Jabber as to why he voted meat instead of Token.
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Err, maybe Haruhi's case made him change his mind and he just didn't mention that then? Just thought of that.
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On June 22 2014 17:49 MysteryMeat1 wrote: yoyoyoyo whats up guys!
im the mystery of the meat! i know quite a few people here, teemu and nydus from vid mafia, epishade my self-proclaimed pretend to be best friend, and templar from blogs and stuff. Just from reading throug the last couple of pages
current reads:
THE_TEMPLAR: he likes my blogs which is a pretty big plus one I don't like how he links his mafia play filter. IMO its pretty scummy people who do it. ITs like guys this is how i play mafia, don't worry i can't possibly change my play and fool you guys. THE_Templar and one other posted their filters, which seemed pretty scummy. I read Scott's posts and didn't really see any reason to vote on him. However its forum mafia, so voting 20 hours before deadline isn't that big of a deal as you can always switch. Don't mind him pressuring scott either.
King of the cats: I honestly really don't like him, seems super scummy, in one of his arguments on lynching, he mentions that he doesn't care about alignment. If you can push a mislynch day1, then you can kill a stronger player in the night. Top scum at the moment.
Hobbitus: Mentions its his first game. Considering this is a newbie game, makes sense that he would post it. However i don't really like that he posted that. He also blows stuff up. all in all, don't like his post buts its not enough to give a solid read on. leaning town.
Teemu: excels at finding scum day1, perfectly alright with pinging people out. Also votes can change, at this point i feel like votes are just to pressure people. And in my experience, votes made closer to deadline mean a whole lot more.
meatpudding: leaning town, didn't jump on any bandwagons, however its self-proclaimed which i don't really like.
Nydus: seems pretty town, he's making reads, and he was a bit trolly at the begining with the haikus but switched into serious mode.
Every one else, just from a quick read through didn't stand out too much, or i forgot to post about them.
for now though, i'll vote on cat, as i think he's pretty scummy.
##VOTE: TheKingOfCats Oh hey, just realized you were talking about me.
I don't really think it's that scummy to post my filter imo. I had briefly skimmed through the thread before I posted (and planned on reading more-in depth afterwards) and saw that Templar had posted his past mafia experience, so I figured that that would be a good thing to add. I figured it wouldn't hurt, giving people more information to form their own opinions on me. I see your point that you might think that I'd want people to look at my past town behavior so I could replicate that this game and trick them though. I can really only say that that's not what I meant by including that.
I'd put you in my town pile for now, MightyMeat. One thing I wouldn't expect a mafia to do would be to spot that 2 people had both mentioned past game experience and draw a connection between them this early. Usually I think that mafia would be content to lynch just about anybody D1 without caring about forming a connection, as that can always be done easier later when lynches and night shots have been made. The fact that you made that connection puts you in town for me. That seems like something a town would be actively looking for, while a scum probably wouldn't be.
I've seen a bunch of people posting about Cats so far. I'm gonna look at that next I suppose.
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Ok, so, can someone explain why Nydus and MightyMeat are voting on Cats again? I had a slight feeling on Meat being townie for me, but I read through Cats' filter and didn't see anything that really looked scummy to me, so I find it hard to justify a Cats vote unless I missed something.
Would like an explanation from those 2 again why they voted on Cats.
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On June 23 2014 09:38 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 09:19 Epishade wrote:On June 22 2014 17:49 MysteryMeat1 wrote: yoyoyoyo whats up guys!
im the mystery of the meat! i know quite a few people here, teemu and nydus from vid mafia, epishade my self-proclaimed pretend to be best friend, and templar from blogs and stuff. Just from reading throug the last couple of pages
current reads:
THE_TEMPLAR: he likes my blogs which is a pretty big plus one I don't like how he links his mafia play filter. IMO its pretty scummy people who do it. ITs like guys this is how i play mafia, don't worry i can't possibly change my play and fool you guys. THE_Templar and one other posted their filters, which seemed pretty scummy. I read Scott's posts and didn't really see any reason to vote on him. However its forum mafia, so voting 20 hours before deadline isn't that big of a deal as you can always switch. Don't mind him pressuring scott either.
King of the cats: I honestly really don't like him, seems super scummy, in one of his arguments on lynching, he mentions that he doesn't care about alignment. If you can push a mislynch day1, then you can kill a stronger player in the night. Top scum at the moment.
Hobbitus: Mentions its his first game. Considering this is a newbie game, makes sense that he would post it. However i don't really like that he posted that. He also blows stuff up. all in all, don't like his post buts its not enough to give a solid read on. leaning town.
Teemu: excels at finding scum day1, perfectly alright with pinging people out. Also votes can change, at this point i feel like votes are just to pressure people. And in my experience, votes made closer to deadline mean a whole lot more.
meatpudding: leaning town, didn't jump on any bandwagons, however its self-proclaimed which i don't really like.
Nydus: seems pretty town, he's making reads, and he was a bit trolly at the begining with the haikus but switched into serious mode.
Every one else, just from a quick read through didn't stand out too much, or i forgot to post about them.
for now though, i'll vote on cat, as i think he's pretty scummy.
##VOTE: TheKingOfCats Oh hey, just realized you were talking about me. I don't really think it's that scummy to post my filter imo. I had briefly skimmed through the thread before I posted (and planned on reading more-in depth afterwards) and saw that Templar had posted his past mafia experience, so I figured that that would be a good thing to add. I figured it wouldn't hurt, giving people more information to form their own opinions on me. I see your point that you might think that I'd want people to look at my past town behavior so I could replicate that this game and trick them though. I can really only say that that's not what I meant by including that. I'd put you in my town pile for now, MightyMeat. One thing I wouldn't expect a mafia to do would be to spot that 2 people had both mentioned past game experience and draw a connection between them this early. Usually I think that mafia would be content to lynch just about anybody D1 without caring about forming a connection, as that can always be done easier later when lynches and night shots have been made. The fact that you made that connection puts you in town for me. That seems like something a town would be actively looking for, while a scum probably wouldn't be. I've seen a bunch of people posting about Cats so far. I'm gonna look at that next I suppose. He wasn't drawing connections between you two. He was saying that you, me (because i posted a filter from a past game too) and Templar were scummy for doing something that isn't alignment indicative not that you and Templar were scum together. Didn't realize you posted a filter as well to one of your games. To clarify, I didn't post a link to my other game, I just briefly mentioned it in my introduction. I'm just using the word 'filter' as any reference to previous games in this context, the way I thought Meat intended for it to mean. So, you're right that he probably wasn't drawing connections either.
In any case though, I think I'm going to retract my earlier read on Meat for now. I thought that his pointing out connections (or rather, scumreading people for non-alignment indicative reasons) based on those who posted past games wasn't something a mafia would look for. I still kind of don't, and I think Meat could be more of a misguided townie in this instance. In the past game I played with him, he tried to get me lynched (we were both town) by arguing that a dead townie thought I was scum and that was why he was shot, - which you should almost never take into consideration dead townie opinions b/c they don't know who's mafia and who's not. I, in turn, mistook Meat as mafia because he was pushing against me based on faulty reasoning.
I'm just saying here that, based on a past game I've played with Meat, I can understand that he thinks something might be scummy and label people as scum even when they're not and even when Meat's not scum. Unfortunately, this makes it pretty much impossible to distinguish Meat's alignment based on his actions, because I know he's made actions in the past that I found questionable.
Though meatpudding hasn't really done much to convince me, Meat's inactivity and illogical/inconsistent posting has made me question my vote on meatpudding in favor of a better lynch.
Sorry Meat. You might be town, but you've made questionable choices for me to not vote you.
Unvote Vote: MysteryMeat1
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On June 23 2014 11:59 MysteryMeat1 wrote: you guys are pushing on me for now two reasons, a small point of inconsitancy that happens to everyone and the fact that im not giving my reads on one person.
If there is a cop in this set-up,
id check in no particualr order cats tolkien jabberwock and if you are still alive and glooming bear is alive, check him to Personally, I'm voting for a bit of a different reason, which is that I don't agree with your thought that posting past games/filters is scummy. I realize you did something similar as town in our last game (which I also posted about), and that made me think you were scummy then, too. It just so happened that you were town that game, but were using logic that I still disagreed with.
I didn't like your reads on just about everyone else as well in your first post too - in particular townreading Teemursu and Nydus. Actually, I disagreed with just about every read you had listed in your first post. I'm sorry to tell you I'm sticking with my vote on you. If you turned out to be mafia, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself after missing all those red flags that stood out for me. Sorry.
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On June 23 2014 12:13 MysteryMeat1 wrote: i used logic that you disagreed with epishade, but found out all of the mafia... and the roleblocker Your pushing me as scum that game because someone who was shot named me as their top scum had no role in determining the rest of the mafia. That has no relevance to you finding the other mafia.
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On June 23 2014 12:16 MysteryMeat1 wrote: i don't see these red flags your talking about epishade.... and the only reason im town reading them is cause i've played a few games of mafia with them. My reads from d1 to d2 are also going to change... The red flags for me were reading Teemursu and Nydus as town for posts that I thought were questionable at best. Not to mention the 'posting about past games' being scummy that we seem to disagree on.
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On June 23 2014 12:21 MysteryMeat1 wrote: iirc you were pretty wrong the whole game which is why you made it to final 3...
and your wrong here now. I was scum/nullread the entire game, which is why I made it to final 3, too. I was wrong for a lot of the game, which doesn't mean jack because reading people is shit hard. You can only really piece together things coherently after you lynch a scum and can read through their filter, as reading through dead town filters does nothing.
I may be wrong here now, and there's a good chance too, considering that there are, what, 3-5 scum out of 15 players? But you've not convinced me to place my vote elsewhere with your latest replies. Sorry, don't hate me
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On June 23 2014 12:23 NydusHerMain wrote:JabberWockZerg: Town + Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 23:57 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:48 Solar424 wrote: Hello. I am new to TL, and this is the first time playing Mafia online, bu I know the rules. you know the rules, and so do I Feels like it's coming from a town perspective. I know it's a weird thing to town read someone off of but it looks like he's annoyed with this post in a "Wow, thanks for the input, I also read the rules" kind of way. As opposed to most people, his reads aren't as polarized and it gives the feel of him trying to find out why people find certain people scummy that he has a town or fence read on. Lol. I think JabberZerg was making a joke, as those are clearly the lyrics of Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up.
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meatpudding said he had the next 30 minutes free, 30 minutes before the vote deadline. He better get a vote in before it closes. I would think he'd be paying attention to everything since he said that, I just hope he doesn't lose track of time.
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On June 23 2014 13:02 MysteryMeat1 wrote: The only thing ill take back is thoughts on tolkien, i can see it but apparrently others can't. I think mafia just got a more talkative team.
if your mafia, keep epishade alive. He's a town that you can get to mislynch. i townread nydus, but he could be scum, hes the most unsure of my town reads. His final push on me, honestly he's probably scummy.
ill be laughing in dead mans Qt when it turns out im right. Lol.
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@Haruhi
You don't mention that any scum could have voted elsewhere, and you seem to be focusing primarily on those that voted for Meat while leaving out the others that voted for meatpudding (which includes yourself). Meat warranted my vote for his displaced logic, which I mentioned too in my justification. Honestly, I wasn't satisfied with a bunch of his responses to everybody afterwards either. I wouldn't put it past people to vote for him just because of how erratic his replies were. Meat wasn't helping his case very much when he started posting just a few hours before deadline.
Honestly, I think the scum votes were likely split between meatpudding and Meat. I don't think scum would all vote on the same person the same day as that establishes a clear link between them (though you could argue wifom here). I'm surprised you don't bring up anything else regarding people that didn't vote for Meat. Even so, without knowing meatpudding's alignment either, a lot of this is baseless, especially considering how many people voted for Meat to begin with.
Also, you seem to have left out Nydus on your list for having a good reasoning to vote Meat. You also listed him as from a previous wagon, but I wouldn't consider 2 votes on Cats, 1 even by Meat - who was starting to get trashed to be a wagon. Of course he had to get off there, as Cats had no reason to be voted (at least, from what I could tell) in the first place. That was why Meat got so much flak. There's no way Nydus was going to stick there. He wasn't abandoning any wagon there.
On June 23 2014 12:23 NydusHerMain wrote: I don't think that TheKingOfCats is as scummy as I originally thought he was. I feel like MysteryMeat1 just sheeped my read on him and is actually scummier than I thought. I was pretty tired when I made those reads initially.
##Vote: MysteryMeat1 You don't think it's a little bit convenient that when everybody started voting for Meat he rescinded his read on Cats so he could vote for Meat as well? Maybe he actually did change his mind about Cats. Idk. I'm not saying it's bad logic that Nydus voted for Meat for sheeping, but I don't think it's any better than what anybody else voted for Meat for. That's not enough for me to discount him from being scum just yet.
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