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On April 29 2014 12:47 Epishade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 12:44 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 12:39 Epishade wrote:On April 29 2014 12:25 Eden1892 wrote:
@Epishade: What's with your 180 here? Seems abrupt to me. How did you go from "loaded question, aiming to paint Yellow in a scum-light, easy way to get rid of someone quickly with the first lynch" to "just digging for information" off the first post?
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Epishade I had it in my mind that Bunny was attempting to get an easy 1st day lynch by making a bad accusation against Yellow. When I said that her actions against Yellow gave me a scumread, you said you didn't agree with me there. Ritoky also suggested that Bunny was getting information from Yellow, instead of trying to kill Yellow with the lynch. I thought that Bunny was pushing too strongly for very little reason, and that looked like scum behavior to me. Ritoky said that she was probably digging for information, and I thought that that was actually a pretty justifiable reason for her behavior. I changed my opinion on Bunny mainly from Ritoky's post, but you also disagreeing with my scumread made me think I might be wrong about the situation. I certainly didn't want to continue forth with Bunny being a scumread when you guys had changed my mind about her aggressive posting. I appreciate you taking into consideration others' read on me. But I would like to ask something. Why do you assume Yell0w is an easy d1 lynch? I thought that your attacks on him were spot on, if not for the fact that what he made at first was in jest. I was thinking others would disregard this fact and bandwagon onto the first scummy looking person to lynch day1. Although this new post from Yellow I'll admit is kind of weird.
The fact that everyone is reading his response as "in jest" is weird to me. How can you tell? Because I couldn't.
Also, no one BW that.
Could be mafia not wanting to bw on their partner? Still doesnt explain why you think that he is an easy d1 lynch.
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On April 29 2014 12:52 mtamburini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 12:47 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 12:43 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:35 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:20 Yell0w wrote:
Just before I leave, just one question for rikory, what would have been a better response from me? What was the ideal response? Wow... Just wow... Bunnies I think we need to apply pressure back on YELLOW. How should I have responded? If your town you shouldnt care on how to appear more towny. This a classic rookie mafia mistake. ##VOTE: Yell0w I was reading that too, tamburini, however, as of now, yellow seems t be much off of the table. It could also be a rookie town mistake, wanting to know how it made him look scummy instead of townie. Fuck that shit no one is off the table today, I want this Yell0w person to die after everything thats happened. 1 Sarcasm 2 Asking how I can be more towny is not towny. These are 2 really good reasons to push harder on Yell0w. I liked bunnies initial push but wasnt ready to jump on board just yet, wanted Yell0w to talk some more and see what they had to say, and I did not like anything said so far.
Okay, so let's discuss Yellow a bit more then. You have seen my reasoning on him so far.
What are yours? As in, the things he has said, what seems more scummy to you?
What exactly did you not like?
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On April 29 2014 13:07 Epishade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 12:51 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 12:47 Epishade wrote:On April 29 2014 12:44 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 12:39 Epishade wrote:On April 29 2014 12:25 Eden1892 wrote:
@Epishade: What's with your 180 here? Seems abrupt to me. How did you go from "loaded question, aiming to paint Yellow in a scum-light, easy way to get rid of someone quickly with the first lynch" to "just digging for information" off the first post?
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Epishade I had it in my mind that Bunny was attempting to get an easy 1st day lynch by making a bad accusation against Yellow. When I said that her actions against Yellow gave me a scumread, you said you didn't agree with me there. Ritoky also suggested that Bunny was getting information from Yellow, instead of trying to kill Yellow with the lynch. I thought that Bunny was pushing too strongly for very little reason, and that looked like scum behavior to me. Ritoky said that she was probably digging for information, and I thought that that was actually a pretty justifiable reason for her behavior. I changed my opinion on Bunny mainly from Ritoky's post, but you also disagreeing with my scumread made me think I might be wrong about the situation. I certainly didn't want to continue forth with Bunny being a scumread when you guys had changed my mind about her aggressive posting. I appreciate you taking into consideration others' read on me. But I would like to ask something. Why do you assume Yell0w is an easy d1 lynch? I thought that your attacks on him were spot on, if not for the fact that what he made at first was in jest. I was thinking others would disregard this fact and bandwagon onto the first scummy looking person to lynch day1. Although this new post from Yellow I'll admit is kind of weird. The fact that everyone is reading his response as "in jest" is weird to me. How can you tell? Because I couldn't. Also, no one BW that. Could be mafia not wanting to bw on their partner? Still doesnt explain why you think that he is an easy d1 lynch. "So this sqrt guy sure seems to enjoy talking, so he's probably mafia." You didn't think him just bluntly stating that sounded at all like a joke? I know nobody BWed it, but I didn't think Yellow was scummy at all to begin with (before he made his recent post that is. Idk what to think of that). I didn't want to lose a potential town for making a joke IF people had started to bw against Yellow. I guess, as you say, you didn't think what he said was a joke. You thought he slipped up, while I thought you were attacking him because he was the first suitable person to attack based on his "slip-up." I wasn't sure how far you were willing to take it to make Yellow look bad (but as I now figure from seeing others reactions, you were probably just getting info), and I thought you were attacking him too strongly for nothing. That was what gave me my initial scumread on you. Then others convinced me otherwise that I was probably looking too hard into your attack and I don't have that scumread anymore.
Okay, I see what you are saying here.
But no, I don't think him bluntly saying that is a joke. And here are my reasons.
1. I'd say it just to get a reaction. Like if I say, oh, tamburini is mafia for wanting to be leader (which I blatantly said, yet no one defended or deflected off of that like they did on yellow). I got more of a reaction to my questioning of Yellow than I did with tamburini, which is why I went further into questioning on yellow.
2. I wanted to see what Yellow thought to my questioning, to see if we had the same read on sqrt. Because here is why. There are two types of mafia imo: The ones who lurk, and the mafia who tend to want to be the first to talk or talk the most. I wanted to see what Yellow read into Sqrt, as if he was thought Sqrt was the latter mafia.
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And to go off the above post, Yell0w did not really give any read to whether or not sqrt was mafia. At first hevsaid, bam, talks alot, must be mafia. Then said, not indicative of mafia play. I pointed out the contradiction, then he claimed mafia. Sure, it may have seemed like a joke, and could possibly actually be a joke (the mafia claiming I mean), but he could have defended himself a bit better. And the fact that so many people jumped on me for that read is weird.
I'm just pointing that out.
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@Epishade: I'm not attacking you for reading me scummy. Actually, my focus has not even been on you. So, yes, I told you I understand your reasoning. I just wanted to point out my reasoning so you could see where I was coming from.
You say I was attacking, but honestly, I don't even consider that as attacking, I was merely getting reads.
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@Epishade: Do I really have to state all the reasons again?!
okay, short version.
1. He called someone mafia (sqrt) because he talked a lot, when I questioned his read, he said he didn't think him talking a lot was actually indicative of mafia. So I called him out on this as being contradictory. He then was like, "Oh you caught me, I'm mafia" So I voted him. For these reasons: 1. Ive played games where mafia has claimed being mafia, even voted themselves, and still got by and won as mafia. 2. This reaction was terrible, why not actually answer the question, which he ended up avoiding completely, until like 3 pages later. 3. I used this as to get reads from Yell0w and other people via the reactions to my pushing/questioning.
You can read through my filter to see any other reasons I have stated, but that is the jist of it.
Also @dravernor- I don't necessarily agree, but I am considering the possibility that Yell0w is town. It's one of the reasons why I rescended my vote. But I will be bringing up the Yell0w thing later in the day if I do not get reads from other people. Also, it wasn't an early lynch, as I stated above. It was reaction testing, and questioning. that is all.
I would also like to point out. I DID CALL TAMBURINI SCUMMY. Yet no one is bringing this up?!
It is weird that yell0w is the only one we are focusing on. So I feel maybe mafia are trying to deflect from their mafia partner (being Yell0w)
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On April 29 2014 14:16 Eden1892 wrote:
Someone talk to me about Yell0w here. What's the case on him? bunnies, mtamburini, ritoky, why do you suspect him right now?
This is what you said.
You asked what my case was on him. I gave you my case.
I don't see what you are trying to get at with your previous post
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Oh eddit: Not evn paying attention to wrote that!!!!
That was geared at eden, not you epishade. I apologize!
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On April 29 2014 14:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@Epishade: Do I really have to state all the reasons again?!
okay, short version.
1. He called someone mafia (sqrt) because he talked a lot, when I questioned his read, he said he didn't think him talking a lot was actually indicative of mafia. So I called him out on this as being contradictory. He then was like, "Oh you caught me, I'm mafia" So I voted him. For these reasons: 1. Ive played games where mafia has claimed being mafia, even voted themselves, and still got by and won as mafia. 2. This reaction was terrible, why not actually answer the question, which he ended up avoiding completely, until like 3 pages later. 3. I used this as to get reads from Yell0w and other people via the reactions to my pushing/questioning.
You can read through my filter to see any other reasons I have stated, but that is the jist of it.
Also @dravernor- I don't necessarily agree, but I am considering the possibility that Yell0w is town. It's one of the reasons why I rescended my vote. But I will be bringing up the Yell0w thing later in the day if I do not get reads from other people. Also, it wasn't an early lynch, as I stated above. It was reaction testing, and questioning. that is all.
I would also like to point out. I DID CALL TAMBURINI SCUMMY. Yet no one is bringing this up?!
It is weird that yell0w is the only one we are focusing on. So I feel maybe mafia are trying to deflect from their mafia partner (being Yell0w)
This is @ Eden, not epishade. Sorry, got them mixed up. My apologies.
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On April 29 2014 15:11 Eden1892 wrote:
I'm not as sure on Yell0w as you guys are, but I'm not bothered by him being lynched.
@bunnies: Do you still think mtamburini is scummy? And if so, how do you feel about the fact that he's been pushing Yell0w harder than everyone else except for you?
So here's my thing on tamburini.
He comes out immediately and declares himself as town leader. Which gives me two scenerios: he is actually town and thinks he can actually lead this game, or he is mafia wanting to look townie.
Hence why I put him on my scum list.
So I was sorta working the Yell0w/Tamburini angle at the same time. Tamburini came out and defended himself by bringing up some ogi stuff from some epicmafia games. That's fine. Whatever. But no one read into this. Either people thought he is townie, or the thing on Yell0w was worth more reading into.
Then, when I rescinded my vote off of Yell0w, for multiple reasons, Tamburini wanted to jump right back on him, for him asking how he should have responded to my question. I find this weird. Especially since Tamburini immediately voted. Hence why I asked tamburini to talk more on Yell0w for his reads.
So as of now, im null on Tamburini until he answers my question, but I'm leaning more scummy for him.
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@Eden: No definitely not teammates, unless tamburini is bussing Yell0w. I wouldn't put it past tamburini to do that, but still kind of "early" in the day.
Tbh, I think I have a good case on both, but I see what you are saying. Yes, I'm keeping them both open, for reasons. Reads. And until more people talk, and tamburini gives his reasoning to my questions, I can't really make a super confident decision.
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On April 29 2014 16:11 dfs wrote:
Greetings. Looks like living on the better side of the world made me miss a lot of fun stuff here.
From what see the major discussion is going between the most active so far 27ninjabunnies, Epishade and Eden1892 about Yell0w's and mtamburini's weird behavior and Bunny's reads on that.
Yell0w's behavior looks like just "joking around" to me, but is still kind of weird.
sqrtofneg1 talked a lot, but wasn't beeing very productive with that.
What I'm qurious about right now is that mtamburini called himself a leader from the get go, but was relatively passive to the discussion for now (he did called Yell0w on that last weird post of his though).
Bunny is being the most active and looks like she knows what she's doing.
Everybody is on my scum list untill proven otherwise, the day is still young.
This is just for you all be be clear on my thoughs so far.
Welcome to the conversation!
What do you have to say about eden voting you?
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@dfs: Very well. Okay, what do you have to say about the interaction between Eden and Epishade?
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@dfs: So I really don't like the fact that you are giving me barely anything. We have pages of information, and you answer in a few sentences. So, can you expand your reads? What do you think of the game so far? Any scum or town reads that you have?
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So I am back awake, and will now start catching up with conversation. But here are some initial thoughts just skimming over the last few pages I have missed.
@ Yell0w: So you agree with me "100% with you, some mafia talks a lot, which is why I said he(sqrt) was mafia.", but then later state in that same paragraph that you don't think him talking in indicative of being mafia. Can you see why I was iffy on you right? However, after reading more of your posts and seeing your defense, I would like to place you as possible town. And here is the reason why for the rest of you: his reaction to tamburini, his reaction to my pushing, and the pushing of others, and his explaination of why he thought I was town/mafia. He sorta implied both in the same paragraph, so Ima assume he means I am fenced. I can elaborate on this later if necessary.
@Sweetfrost: I want to point out to you that in no way I was defending the vote on you. Please reread what I posted. I was curious as to why my initial vote on Yell0w, given with reason as to why I thought he was scum, was scummy when eden was just throwing random votes left and right, and not getting called scum for it. I'm trying to find who the mafia are, and Eden, well, not sure what Eden was doing except maybe get conversation going. I think he could have gone about it a better way, but yeah.
@Tamburini: I had asked you this-
On April 29 2014 12:59 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 12:52 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:47 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 12:43 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:35 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:20 Yell0w wrote:
Just before I leave, just one question for rikory, what would have been a better response from me? What was the ideal response? Wow... Just wow... Bunnies I think we need to apply pressure back on YELLOW. How should I have responded? If your town you shouldnt care on how to appear more towny. This a classic rookie mafia mistake. ##VOTE: Yell0w I was reading that too, tamburini, however, as of now, yellow seems t be much off of the table. It could also be a rookie town mistake, wanting to know how it made him look scummy instead of townie. Fuck that shit no one is off the table today, I want this Yell0w person to die after everything thats happened. 1 Sarcasm 2 Asking how I can be more towny is not towny. These are 2 really good reasons to push harder on Yell0w. I liked bunnies initial push but wasnt ready to jump on board just yet, wanted Yell0w to talk some more and see what they had to say, and I did not like anything said so far. Okay, so let's discuss Yellow a bit more then. You have seen my reasoning on him so far.
What are yours? As in, the things he has said, what seems more scummy to you?
What exactly did you not like?
You stated (in the nested quote, I have bolded what I am focusing on), that you did not like anything Yell0w had said so far. That is what I wanted you to answer. What in his posts did you not like, and why? I wanted to see your thought process on this
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On April 29 2014 23:29 Sweetfrost wrote:
I also checked ninjabunnies filter and it seems you try way to hard to act the role of a Helix worshipper. Trying hard to win people to his side and even defending me when I get random voted which I appriciate but it also makes me suspicous that he is actually trying to win my trust. As soon as Yell0w became a suspect he has been pushing his guiltiness hard.
I'm not sure what to make of this yet but I have a feeling that either Yell0w or ninjabunnies could be scum. But only one of them.
I want to also comment on this.
I stated in previous post I was not defending your vote, you can read that for yourself.
I don't see how I have been pushing guiltiness hard. I have claimed multiple times in this forum I pushed to get reads, and I got them. I even then went as far as changing my vote off of Yell0w. If I was pushing hard, don't you think my vote would still be on him?
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On April 30 2014 01:18 Amiko wrote:So right now, my suspicion is on Eden1892. Here’s the things that currently make me suspicious: 1) Seriousness of VotesEden has thrown around a few votes, I think he’s changed more than anyone else so far. That isn’t inherently scummy to me – voting for pressure is fine. However, it makes me confused why his initial reaction to ninjabunnies’ pressure on yell0w was to question ninjabunnies rather than yell0w. I was thinking about voting for yell0w to add to the pressure (incidentally, it seemed like tamburini may have been as well – I’m not sure, but he did vote for yell0w after ninjabunnies removed her vote to at least keep pressure on). Basically, my point here is this:Given Eden’s willingness to vote without too much basis (on sweetfrost as a lurker, on epishade for his comments on yell0w, on dfs as a lurker) I would have expected him to be more initially supportive of pressure on yell0w from ninjabunnies. 2) Eden’s interaction with ninjabunniesTo go a little deeper on Eden/ninjabunnies, Eden essentially asks ninjabunnies twice what she learned from the pressure on yell0w. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=13#255 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=14#272). Initially, he seems to see bunnies as genuine, but also says she didn’t really answer his question – that seems a little weird. When bunnies responds again, I feel like she didn’t fully answer his question (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21278572) – Eden had asked what she learned from the post, and she responded that bunnies avoided the question. In response, Eden names bunnies as his top town (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21278604) The point here is this:Eden asks ninjabunnies some questions regarding her pressure on yell0w. When ninjabunnies doesn’t fully respond, Eden calls her genuine (though he notes she didn't respond). When she doesn’t fully respond again, Eden calls ninjabunnies his top town. This feels weird because if I ask someone a question and they don’t respond I get interested. If I ask again and they don’t respond, I get suspicious. So, Eden's response to ninjabunnies felt off to me. -- I would especially like to know thoughts on these points from the players who just recently started posting.
I'm get the first time I didn't respond fully to eden's questioning on me as I read his post incorrectly.
However the second time, I did fully respond, I accidently put it as @Epishade instead of @Eden. So you might want to reread if I'm correct about which post you are tlaking about.
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@Sqrt:
So after reading everything, these are my reads:
Town
Epishade
Yell0w
Amiko
Mafia
Possibly Eden
Mtamburini- I need more reads from him, and it is super weird how he is continuously pushing on Yell0w saying that Yell0w is grasping at things in order to seem not scummy. I feel tamburini is reading a lot into things that are not even there.
Fenced
Sqrt
Sweet
dfs- I like his reads when he finally expanded them, though at the beginning, he only gave one or two sentences to respond to my questioning of him until I pushed harder. So I'm keeping an eye on him.
Meat
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If you want me to expand on any of the reads above, let me know. I'll be on and off forums throughout the day, so it might take me a bit to respond.
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On April 29 2014 23:54 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, it's morning now.
After a brief read-through of the whole thread, this is what I've come up with.
I've cleared bunnies, epishade, eden, yellow.
Amiko came in, but left abruptly. He's more active in the other games. Possible scum.
Tambo scum read, but stronger than amiko.
Meat possibly town, he didn't talk much, but I think I'll chalk that up to first game.
Rit & drav haven't talked enough for me to get a read on them.
Dfs seems maf because of a little thing - he calls everybody scum until cleared, which is contradictory since he calls some people towny beforehand.
Ash and frost haven't talked enough for me to get a read on them.
Current reads: Tambo scum, Dfs possible scum, Amiko possible scum, Bunnies, eden, epishade, yellow town in that order.
Okay, sqrt, seeing as you want to get conversation going, I'm going to address you here.
I hve read through your filter, and I see you haven't contributed much the first pages. Then you come back, say you are going to dig a bit deeper, and these are the reads you give. I want to talk about a few of them.
One: Why have you cleared yellow? You have stated you don't THINK he is mafia, and a few reasons why, but why is he absolutely cleared? You also claimed you liked what yell0w wrote in one of his posts. But that's all you said. What about Yell0w post did you specifically like?
I see you have cleared amiko for talking more, but what about Amiko's reads do you like? Also, specifically what do you think about the pointing out of the interaction between me, Eden and Epishade?
Why is tamburini a stronger scum read than Amiko?
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EPT
