World Heavyweight Championship Mafia II

On March 22 2014 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Let's fill this quick so marv doesn't get to play.

On March 25 2014 20:50 phagga wrote:
Actually, I retract that statement, you only had 7 pages of filter in Dr. Who Mafia.

On March 26 2014 05:05 Palmar wrote:
Policy lynching anyone with less than 9 pages of filter day 1, regardless of my alignment.

On March 26 2014 08:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
i claim town

any counter claims?

On March 26 2014 09:11 gumshoe wrote:


I do not for a second think he could not come up with his own valid reasoning for your question twoards me and I dont see how he could imagine you in any world giving something up in response. As if when your scum you dont bother with reasons, whereas the opposite is true, your far more careful as red and he should know that.

The outcome of the question is inevitable, you look capable, he gives ground, it was unlikely to go any other way(and I dont see what other path he could have honestly imagined) and therefore it was pointless. Hes either fienting in an effort to kick start or hes scum trying to fit in. One thing for sure though, hes not bieng genuine atm.

On March 26 2014 09:36 Palmar wrote:


If the bolded is true I am mafia for asking that question, no matter what. The only answer you accept as genuine can not possibly be given at that point in the thread because it's completely unreasonable to think rayn is scummy at that point. Thus by your own definition I must be mafia for asking that question and there is no need for you to follow up on it, as any answer I give will always make me mafia in your eyes.

##Vote gumshoe

On March 26 2014 09:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you think gumshoe is mafia?
Also why don't you understand Palmar's post, it's pretty clear?

On March 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:


Yeah sure, in case you were wondering about the trap card, I wanted to see how paranoid you were at the thought of a trap, which you weren't really, just sort of indolent towards the whole notion. I has no issues with you as of now.

On March 26 2014 10:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I give up.

On March 26 2014 14:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
This is a game of two truths and i lie. In this post there is going to be one lie. You need to guess where:

1) I started using the smiley only lately, some moths or maybe half a year ago because i like how it looks. I don't remember who used it in mafia games (maybe it was marv?) but anyways someone did and i think the colored smiley it gives looks cute. Therefore i have almost abandoned every other smiley, while i normally prefer ^^ , ^_^ , or :D . I absolutely hate XD smiley because when i played brood war a lot in battle.net when someone used XD you could tell they were Spanish. I hated Spanish kids in brood war. They thought everyone can speak español and they ended every single thing they said with XD or XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXD. Only thing they could say in English was "ally end" when they were about lo lose and i was about to ruin their precious stats. I refused to understand English at that point and started talking in Finnish. Anyways that smiley makes me see red every time i see it, except for when gumshoe does it. Just because gumshoe is so adorable.

2) My "town wins this belt" post was indeed a town claim. I was happy rolling town and i don't give a fuck who else is town because i just find two mafia and then town wins the belt. I am also amused that Robik has called my alignment correctly out three times based on my usage / usagelessness. I don't know how he does it and i don't think it's alignment indicative but i am really interested in seeing is so some sort of psychic or what because i have a townread on him in this game. I don't believe Robik yet, i mean, i don't believe that's a reliable tell but we'll see about that when / if he does that a couple of times more and if he is right or wrong.

3) I think this is absolutely the worst post in thread:

On March 26 2014 14:22 Holyflare wrote:
2 mafia so easy? Palmar rayn gg. Belt remains.

On March 26 2014 19:24 marvellosity wrote:
oh 1 wasn't true? Damn. I was really hoping it was.

On March 26 2014 15:19 Holyflare wrote:


Please point out to me where it is wrong. He has read 1 or 2 games of you as mafia and 1 of those is foundation where you yourself said that the game was shit and totally not your meta so in actuality he has read 1 game of mafia from you. He has read 0 town games. He calls out something about smiley's which didn't happen in any of your scum games that I looked at and seeing as he has read 0 of your town games how does he know you do not do that as town?

You defend robik and say everything is shit and boo hoo i don't want to talk to holy anymore.

You so funny.

On March 26 2014 15:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Remind of this post when marv comes back to thread. I'll prove you i am town then.

On March 26 2014 19:39 Holyflare wrote:


because i had never played with him and it's retarded and rayn knew it was retarded and didn't bother to point it out and just said "shit logic" "u bad" when all he had to do was do what you just did and point out that i was wrong to assume something like that, he perpetuated the argument by antagonising me.

On March 26 2014 16:01 Holyflare wrote:



this is a legit good post for thrawn to make and he backed it up with research as well

On March 26 2014 17:26 Holyflare wrote:


because you put me in a fowl mood by being a dick to me instead of actually attempting to talk things through with me so of course it's made my judgement clouded because you are a twat

On March 26 2014 18:01 Holyflare wrote:
if it doesn't say "i am town or i am vt" then it is not a town claim

On March 26 2014 19:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:

trap != "i want more opinions before i give my own"
Why are you this bad Palmar?

On March 26 2014 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:


then read it again. he's making stuff up and not making any sense.

the initial reason I voted for him which I haven';t explained until now, is the tone of his "game" post. it looks very fake and not liek something I expect rayn to write regardless of whatever I think about the content of the post. as to the content...

"2) My "town wins this belt" post was indeed a town claim. I was happy rolling town and i don't give a fuck who else is town because i just find two mafia and then town wins the belt. I am also amused that Robik has called my alignment correctly out three times based on my usage / usagelessness. I don't know how he does it and i don't think it's alignment indicative but i am really interested in seeing is so some sort of psychic or what because i have a townread on him in this game. I don't believe Robik yet, i mean, i don't believe that's a reliable tell but we'll see about that when / if he does that a couple of times more and if he is right or wrong."

-i doubt rayn doesn't care about winning the belt

- "I don't know how he does it and i don't think it's alignment indicative" what the fuck does this even mean? if robik is scum then of course he is not "some sort of psychic" who is excellent at reading rayn. if robik is scum the robik KNOWS RAYN IS TOWN and doesn't need to try and figure out if rayn is town. like... i can't properly explain the problem I have with this quote because I don't even know what the quote is meant to say. it's just nonsense.

-this line: "i don't believe that's a reliable tell but we'll see about that when / if he does that a couple of times more and if he is right or wrong." WTF DOES THIS MEAN? it's the same as the earlier quote. rayn is just talking nonsense here which is the easiest way to figure out his alignment.

when I read rayn's game my first thought was "ok, rayn is being sarcastic for most if not all of this"

so I ask him to clarify if he was actually reading robik as scum

but he says all those statements are real? lol

On March 26 2014 20:20 prplhz wrote:

because i don't like it when people are assholes

On March 26 2014 08:13 Palmar wrote:

My idea kinda died anyway.

I just remembered that rayn also did a townclaim at the beginning of titanic, and that he didn't really in foundation, but reading back I found that he opened with that unvoting plan in default suspicion, so whatever.

On March 26 2014 20:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Is there a reason you are not voting for thrawn or commenting on my case on him / what Holyflare said about him?

On March 26 2014 20:30 marvellosity wrote:
thrawn, I'm going to play nicey-nicey with you because, ya know, I'm just a swell dude all round and you already have a bunch of people on your case.

On March 26 2014 20:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yessir.

I think game is kinda easy because i don't really see anyone being mafia except for thrawn/Palmar/prplhz.
Off chance for a couple of other players but chances are small, like 3%.

On March 26 2014 20:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I have been really really sure since i started telling him why i thought his case on Palmar was dumb and started explaining him what Palmar meant with his posts.

On March 26 2014 22:10 phagga wrote:

Why do you think gumshoe is town?

@Marv
Why do you want to lynch Palmar?

On March 26 2014 22:16 Palmar wrote:
That's a bad case marv, townies would have put more effort into the mspaint.

On March 26 2014 22:19 Palmar wrote:
Are you scum marv?

On March 26 2014 08:27 marvellosity wrote:

No, I cannot counter claim this.

On March 26 2014 19:19 Palmar wrote:

##Vote rayn

policy lynch for creating traps.

On March 26 2014 19:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Where did i create a trap?

On March 26 2014 15:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Because i wanted to see other people's opinions on this and i caught mafia!thrawn.

On March 26 2014 22:36 Holyflare wrote:
Why aren't you lynching confirmed liar thrawn who called rayn mafia and voted him based on lying to then call him mafia again and subsequently ninja unvote rayn with no explanation?

On March 26 2014 22:40 phagga wrote:

do I understand it right that you want to kill Palmar because he has not commented on the rayn/HF thing and has generally not been very active in the last few hours despite being present?

oh, and the "I withhold my HF read"?

On March 26 2014 22:40 Holyflare wrote:
Palmer stop filling filter with filler to fulfill your filling filter policy of 9 pages and say what you think

On March 26 2014 22:42 Holyflare wrote:
X axis is what plam wants from a scale of nothing to lots of things. Y axis is marv cares from 0 cares to wants to bum. The chart clearly indicates that palmar wants lots of things but marv has 0 cares

On March 26 2014 22:49 phagga wrote:

so plam is a nickname for palmar and to bum means... ? (my dictionary says it means something like "to hang around" - "to bum around", is that the correct usage here?)

On March 27 2014 00:18 Holyflare wrote:
In this thread we see players repeatedly doing the same catch up over and over

On March 27 2014 01:28 Palmar wrote:

What's that I hear? the wind?

On March 27 2014 01:27 IAmRobik wrote:
I don't have strong opinions about marv. From what I've heard of his town game, he's supposed to be top town TL, but not so great scum, and I haven't gotten that top town TL feel from him thus far....so maybe he's scum?

On March 27 2014 01:52 prplhz wrote:

I guess we'll see?

Dunno how a vote on the fastest growing wagon can be a throwawayvote anyway.

On March 27 2014 01:56 Palmar wrote:
and remember marv, I slow-cook my OMGUS

On March 27 2014 02:05 prplhz wrote:
who on earth gives a fuck where a single vote is, not to mention that it is my vote

do you really think that a completely random annoyed pprhlzp vote is going to ruin your wagon of righteousness anyway

i'm going to be able to check the thread sporadically. i can operate a smartphone. it might not have first priority though when i'm in the dinosaur museum or touring the ep.

On March 27 2014 02:12 Holyflare wrote:
So words and votes are flying but i don't see anyone talkin about mafia.

Palmar and prpl explain your shit. Why is everyone still ignoring thrawn?

On March 27 2014 03:39 Palmar wrote:

You realize scummarv talks about things exactly the same way as town marv, the only difference is the quality of their contributions when they actually have something to add to the discussion?

On March 27 2014 03:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Hey Robik i tell you something.
Forget about marv for now. He can appear useless for the first 40 hours if he chooses so. He will provide content when he thinks it needs to be provided and he'll have explanations for his actions. There is no way you can bully him into doing something you want by yelling him, voting for him, or by anything.

When he does his stuff if it's not reasonable then he might be mafia. Right now there is nothing mafia-esque in his play.

On March 27 2014 06:24 IAmRobik wrote:

I got lazy and have been keeping up with the thread instead of catching up. I still haven't read 20-27/8. The other reads are up to date. They were posted on pg 29....they took what happened on pages 27/8 when I came back into the thread into account. Besides that, the past few pages are just people building post coutns and reiterating their opinions. Like...there's been so little new information presented.

On March 26 2014 15:01 thrawn2112 wrote:
Rayn what's my shitlogic? I didn't even explain my vote or read on you until after you called me mafia What is this shitlogic you are talking about?

please give quotes, and they have to come from before you decided I was mafia for being "dumb" for the story of your thrawn-read to make sense

(there won't be any)

On March 26 2014 15:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
wtf are you talking about? you're just saying words

do you really wanna stand by the statement that town thrawn doesn't jump to conclusions?

On March 26 2014 22:19 Palmar wrote:
Are you scum marv?

On March 27 2014 01:56 Palmar wrote:
and remember marv, I slow-cook my OMGUS

On March 27 2014 01:59 Palmar wrote:

you're right I guess

##vote marvellosity

On March 26 2014 09:36 Palmar wrote:


If the bolded is true I am mafia for asking that question, no matter what. The only answer you accept as genuine can not possibly be given at that point in the thread because it's completely unreasonable to think rayn is scummy at that point. Thus by your own definition I must be mafia for asking that question and there is no need for you to follow up on it, as any answer I give will always make me mafia in your eyes.

##Vote gumshoe

On March 26 2014 10:03 Palmar wrote:

which one, whether or not I was trying to create discussion? Seeing as I posted as much in the next post after I asked rayn the question I thought the answer should be default, did you not notice that?

And no, it's an opportunity to do something that may or may not provide something useful, so yes I was creating discussion and no that wasn't the sole purpose of the question.

Do I get to go home now officer?

On March 26 2014 22:12 Palmar wrote:


Because he was an asshole to me, I don't think scumshoe would be an asshole to me.

On March 26 2014 21:58 Palmar wrote:

probably town

On March 27 2014 18:39 thrawn2112 wrote:


do you think palmar read his PM?

yes or no

On March 27 2014 18:39 Holyflare wrote:


no the first bit implies that you could be wrong about reading him and that it would completely change based on his activity, the second says you have an actual case on him and it's not that long afterwards

why not bring that up in the first instance?

On March 27 2014 18:43 Holyflare wrote:


This implies you could be wrong about palmar based on activity.



This implies you have an actual case against him based on other points.



Why the big difference in such short time?

On March 27 2014 18:45 thrawn2112 wrote:


you're avoiding the main issue

for you to take the position you're taking, you HAVE to be telling us that you think palmar is lying abotu reading his PM. there is no other possible way for you to think that he's mafia

On March 27 2014 18:46 thrawn2112 wrote:
man, all of you are mafia

On March 27 2014 18:47 Holyflare wrote:


i'm covering all bases dimwit

because I think I've caught Palmar, my case is already ready that does not apply to the first quoted bit.

On March 27 2014 18:49 Holyflare wrote:
ok marv just ignore whatever let's talk about rayn face

why does he rage out with prplhz?

"this is policy you either lynch him or me and i wont return"

why wouldn't he just assume prpl is mafia and get him lynched as well as thrawn? why does it become a policy?

On March 27 2014 19:11 Palmar wrote:


For someone whose case is almost thoroughly founded it knowing me really well don't you think it's unreasonable to expect me to ignore some random dude calling me mafia and refusing to explain why and expect me to go merrily along my way doing other things in the thread?

On March 27 2014 19:01 Holyflare wrote:
this is nothing to do with palmar it's all about you

if he could prove to you that he was towny for you to mention that point in the first quote then all the stuff that happened in the game before that quote wouldn't be actual scum palmar points because then they must be stuff towny palmar can do too otherwise that statement wouldn't be qualified with "so I'd prefer it if you were actually town and could show me."

On March 27 2014 19:21 Palmar wrote:
And at the time marv's entire case was just activity and some point I don't even understand about me looking at previous games.

On March 27 2014 19:29 Palmar wrote:

Your theory that I would come hard after you, probably with an actual case as town is so ridiculous because the point is that you didn't say anything for a long time.

I was actually expecting you to say something so I could explain why it's bad. Now I have and you keep rehashing your initial points. It doesn't make them valid.

On March 27 2014 19:32 phagga wrote:

But what do you expect us to do with this claim?

Seriously, Palmar, if the roles are reversed and I come out with this claim after being pushed as lynch, wouldn't you insta-vote me?

Why do you expect us to believe this claim? If we are to believe it, you are basically lynch-immune this day, and you know that that is stupid as fuck.

##vote: Palmar

On March 27 2014 19:34 Palmar wrote:

Yeah but how can I reasonably call you scum or stupid when you refuse to provide any content to back up your stupidity.

I said as much "my entire case on you is that you called me mafia".

On March 27 2014 20:13 Holyflare wrote:


You had like 6 pages of filter before marv posted that said absolutely nothing. You admit you have no idea how to read marv as scum but think he's scum now and your only reason is that he made a case on you when you hadn't read your pm which is a bull shit reason. You agreed with like half the points in his case too.

If you flip town i will not care because you are being useless anyway

On March 27 2014 20:21 Palmar wrote:


Hey, I actually only agree with like one thing, and that is that I don't know how to read marv as scum. I also said we agreed on the read on gumshoe but I was the first one (at least between marv and I) who brought up how the early game interaction made gumshoe probably town. I don't agree I'm mafia for saying gumshoe is town.

I guess the robik thing I sort of agree on, but that's really not the point. That's just me trying to force myself to be useful while waiting for marv to say something.

All I know marv isn't stupid and doesn't make bad cases, if he does he's mafia. Usually he doesn't go after me on day 1.

On March 26 2014 22:12 Palmar wrote:


Because he was an asshole to me, I don't think scumshoe would be an asshole to me.

On March 26 2014 21:01 marvellosity wrote:
Ok. That's mainly the reason I was town on him after it died down and hopefully it should be obvious why I didn't want to "stop" whatever gumshoe was doing by wading in with a categorical opinion at the time.

I'm not quite as certain as you are though :>

On March 27 2014 20:27 Palmar wrote:
You guys should all totally read the first 5.5 pages of marv's filter if your reason is that I didn't do anything in the game up until that point.

On March 27 2014 20:28 Palmar wrote:


guess I was wrong.

On March 27 2014 20:33 Palmar wrote:

The only reason I call him mafia is because at the time I got mad for him not giving me a reasonable out. You can go read the conversation.

I left the thread, chilled out and realized the entire thing made him town.

On March 28 2014 00:01 IAmRobik wrote:

what does the blazinghand quote have to do with anything -.-

On March 28 2014 00:03 IAmRobik wrote:

I'm the first one to call out palmar and vote for him....and you used my "silly, irrational" case as part of your case. So if he flips scum, you can suck it.

On March 28 2014 01:59 Holyflare wrote:
you're* can't believe i just did that

On March 28 2014 02:19 gumshoe wrote:
Also I totally missed where you claimed doc 0_o can you point it out?

On March 27 2014 19:45 Holyflare wrote:
well that's not what mine said, mine was like you are a doctor!

On March 28 2014 02:26 Palmar wrote:
I will seriously paypal 10 dollars to the person who can tell me what I am not.

This question has a very specific answer.

On March 28 2014 06:55 prplhz wrote:
also i'm back home and i should be as active as usual now

On March 28 2014 08:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
every time i reach a point where I think my read or reads my be getting somewhere useful, something f'd up happens. my reads have been reset to null 3 times so far.

and i don't think i'm playing against wincon. i spent a real long time reading the entire thread and posting all those notes, tbh the only reason I did that was because I knew I needed to in order to not get lynched. i wish something more productive would have come out of it, and I was working on part 4 and then I read your palmar case, and decided i liked it better than anything I'd thought of so far.

so I don't know what you mean by trolling unless you're only talking about my ramen comment

On March 28 2014 08:19 thrawn2112 wrote:
i unvoted becaue of his "haven't read role PM claim" which imo invalidates anything you can say about his play being scummy. i came back to it once i saw that he read his role PM and decided not to try and save himself

On March 28 2014 08:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
For the record i don't believe thrawn's story for a second. Or actually i do for a little second because prplhz remains unhelpful and needs to be policy lynched because he is playing against his wincon if he is town.

I would draw a funny picture but this game does not deserve pictures.

On March 28 2014 09:14 IAmRobik wrote:

In what world am I gonna influence people in this game when this is my 5th game of mafia on TL and this is you're like 50th? I don't write out long drawn out cases on people. I just tell people what the deal is and at some point you guys are just gonna start listening and following me for my 2 line accusations that are more accurate and concise than your 30 paragraph explanations

On March 28 2014 09:21 IAmRobik wrote:
I haven't reread stuff yet, but I'm just gonna throw out that phagga prolly the last maf. Could be thrawn, but gut tells me it's phagga

On March 28 2014 09:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
thrawn has had exactly one good post in this game and even that did not result in any conclusion. I think this whole "let's play the game.. wait.. everyone thinks i am mafia.. well, let's say i start playing again, wipe the board clean, and make the exact opposite conclusions on like everything, let's see if people think i am more townie now" is the crappiest crap i have ever seen.

I don't give any fucks about what he says in his catchup posts because he has two stories in this game and one is a lie, guaranteed. He hasn't answered about his cases because he couldn't. Explaining your intention behind your posts is not impossible in any situation because you always think of something when you post. If you can't explain why you post something you are most likely lying. And i don't believe thrawn's explanation.

but.....

prplhz does not play the game. he intentionally refuses to play the game and i don't know which one of those two is worse because they can't be both mafia. I just refuse to not vote for a person who intentionally refuses to play the game.

There is an off chance marv is mafia but that would mean Palmar was telling the truth about not reading his role PM. In a game where there is only 2 mafia (well in any game, but especially when there is only 2 mafia) i consider that against the game's spirit because if he in fact did that the game becomes a "guess who has red letters after his name" and that is not mafia. So if what he said was true i just consider this game invalid and refuse to believe he didn't read his role PM.

On March 28 2014 09:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:

This was a really bad post.

and then this was the complete opposite.

On March 28 2014 10:41 IAmRobik wrote:

Didn't you learn from my insta-reads that you should just trust what i say?

read 1: rayn town
read 2: palmar mafia

follow along gumshoe

On March 28 2014 18:08 prplhz wrote:

oh didn't get the blazinghand context at all, thought it was just a frustrated townie outburst

On March 28 2014 19:00 Holyflare wrote:


i'm not, it's more likely prpl is mafia than thrawn but i liked phagga's reasoning for voting palmar and thought it looked alright and the rest of thrawns case was stuff that i had also done and i'm town so therefore it invalidates the rest of his case

On March 28 2014 19:40 Holyflare wrote:
Nothing to do with what he said and more to do with his vote and unvote..?

On March 28 2014 19:26 marvellosity wrote:
One other thing to note, and without giving an opinion on alignments particularly because I cba to argue.

If marv is coming after Palmar hard and in the end produces a case that is very very very likely to get Palmar lynched, then mafia have to decide what they do.

Do they agree with the case and then backtrack really dully later even when it's clear Palmar is getting lynched with or without them, or do they try to look as good as possible from the flip with a decent vote?

On March 28 2014 19:48 Holyflare wrote:
Why the hell does being around at the deadline for someone that claimed scum become an issue to point out?

On March 28 2014 19:49 Holyflare wrote:


I'm talking about palmar loving to lynch all liars and agreeing that thrawn was a liar but then unvoting him at the first opportunity he could, ignoring the original lie.

On March 28 2014 20:04 Holyflare wrote:

This is your lie thrawn. It doesn't matter about you giving reasons or no reasons earlier. You tell us in your later post about your original reasons for voting rayn but those reasons didn't correlate with what you did at all.

On March 28 2014 20:29 thrawn2112 wrote:


OBVIOUSLY NOT,

lol. elsewise i wouldn;t be in this mess. i have admitted as much

On March 28 2014 20:57 Holyflare wrote:
And marv you asked what he gained by changing his reads? He enables himself to not be lynched and he falls into town consensus that everyone had already been talking about.