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I like holyflare's part, your stuff is too meta for me to reallly care about it.
prplhz plays like an asshole as any alignment. He's not being supertown which he's perfectly capable of but if that was lynchworthy VE should be policy lynched every game. If prplhz wants to he can look really town (I cleared him in no time in default suspicion game), but not doing that doesn't make him mafia
I like that he came to the same conclusion as me regarding your argument, ie that holyflare's side was much more understandable, but he doesn't really explain why he comes to that conclusion so meh.
He did vote for marv though, so that makes him supertown, marv even said so himself.
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On March 27 2014 04:43 prplhz wrote:
i'm the hero liquidia deserves but not the one it needs
I first read that as "I'm the hero liquidia deserves but no one needs" I thought you were really funny for a second there.
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On March 27 2014 04:55 prplhz wrote:
you cleared me in default suspicions because of a random exchange with rayn?
yeah I think so
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or no, I think it was prior to that.
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Well meta is the part that makes you say with confidence he'd not do stuff like withhold reads or jump on cases as town.
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imma play dota until marv finishes his case.
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The second bullet point is what I meant when I said earlier that thrawn jumped you incorrectly. There is no reason for him to make that assumption there.
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And that is a great point, and unless I'm blind was not part of the case you told me to read.
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On March 27 2014 06:24 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 06:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 27 2014 06:18 prplhz wrote:
no i mean, what do you mean by "I dunno" in that post? It means nothing specific. I am asking you is there a reason i should think you are town? What kinda retarded question is this? Just think you're having a strange reaction to me pointing out you have the same wrong read every single game. You blame it on me and write nervous stuff that apparently doesn't mean anything and now you're super aggressive.
My man prplhz!
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On March 27 2014 06:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
That's because every single game you decide to do shit andi have to guess if you are town or not.
Fucjk i really do hate playing with you because you are stubborn unhelpful asshote.
He isn't, you just can't read him.
Yes this means I now think he's town.
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On March 27 2014 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Actually just fuck it.
See you in 24 hours or so.
Policy.
##unvote
##vote prplhz
I don't even give a fuck if he is mafia or not because if he is not he is still playing towards mafia win condition.
I am not going to post until one of us dies.
This is retarded rayn.
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please do elaborate on phagga gumshoe.
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The only thing I really remember about his game is that during the rayn/holy shitstorm with thrawn chiming in occasionally, he was the one person who had the wits to actually just ask rayn what rayn's read on robik was based on, that looks sort of good.
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Marv this is going to be really boring if you wait for me to go to sleep or something, it's much more fun if you try to get me lynched while I'm still here.
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On March 27 2014 06:46 prplhz wrote:
oh come on rayn don't be like that. i'm sorry?
can someone defuse this situation?
I tried calling him a retard, do you think I helped?
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Marv I love you, this case is great 
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On March 27 2014 15:33 thrawn2112 wrote:is he still mafia?
Of course!
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Wanna know why?
I have not read my role PM.
![[image loading]](http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll225/mia-plur/VictoryDance.gif)
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On March 27 2014 15:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
so you are saying that marv is mafia because he's making a case on a confirmed person who doesnt know alignments, or a "townie"
so your case is that marv is mafia because he is "wrong?"
I need to hop away for a bit, but I'll explain why marv's case is wrong in a little while
And yes, marv being intentionally bad in the way he's being makes him mafia.
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On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Mainly Palmar is not playing the game at all. He has 6 pages of filter, but he's literally not playing. The big problem is that he is pretending to play. You'll find quotes littered from me across various games giving 3 scenarios for Palmar:
1) he tries hard and he is productive. He is town.
2) he blatantly doesn't give a shit and doesn't hide the fact he is not productive. He is town.
3) he looks like he's playing the game a bit but in reality is unproductive. He is mafia.
What we have this game is scenario 3. Take the start of the game. rayn did some random townclaim that literally is not worth mentioning, and is also not really the type of thing that Palmar gives a fuck about. But Palmar asks him about previous games, but then "remembers" that he has townclaimed as town before and didn't do so as mafia. It's dead content, he could have just thought for 2 seconds and remembered this instead of bringing something irrelevant to the thread.
The only reason I have 6 pages of filter is you marv, anyone can go back and check where in my filter we start going back and forth.
Also weren't you just in a game with me where I tried to call VE mafia for singing in his opening post? I do care how people open their games.
On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
If you recall, I asked for a clarification from Palmar earlier about what he remembered and what he looked up, because I wanted to know if he went away and found things that contradicted his "theory", or he in fact already knew them. And by and large he already knew them.
This is crazy, even if I'm the scummiest scum in town there is no reason for me to lie about things like this? I was surprised when you asked me to clarify it, as I thought the original sentence was straightforward enough.
The bolded sentence is just straight up false, that's making stuff up. If I say I did not know how rayn opened suspicion mafia until I went and checked, why do you think that's a lie? And more importantly, what makes you think I'd lie about that even if I was mafia?
On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar asked me a really standard, flat question about how I viewed Holyflare, to see if I had been reading the thread attentively. That's literally not how you ever read me, and anyone who knows me passingly knows that. I will produce good content in my own time (or not), and I do not need to be "quizzed" on reading comprehension of the thread. It's just an empty way of looking like he's involved and caring about what's going on. But he doesn't.
I'll actually concede this. I have no idea how to read you in general. My latest theory arose from Default suspicion where I decided if marv doesn't make a really insightful comment on something day 1 he is mafia. I thought holyflare's progression throughout his argument with rayn looked really townie, especially the part where HF got mad at rayn for being a dick with his read. So I decided to try to poke you to see if you had come to a similar conclusion.
On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar offers to speak to Robik about Robik's read on him - look, Palmar cares! But when Robik tries to open a dialogue with Palmar, repeatedly, he's not responded to. Palmar doesn't care.
Sorry about that Robik, I genuinely intended to talk to you but I did not play all that much yesterday, and I have a hard time focusing on other things when I think I know something's up.
Also I was gonna yell at Robik post game for saying I scumslipped in that sentence I fumbled when I couldn't have as I don't know my alignment
On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:I say he doesn't because it's quite clear. His reads are all empty one liners, hiding behind a facade of joviality but he's literally not trying to move the game on. Speaking of his read on me, look how weak and spineless it is. I start calling him scum, and we get Fine, whatever. Kinda half-hearted but I guess any alignment can post this way. I basically continue because I'm pretty interested in *how* Palmar is going to omgus me (plus it's fun to antagonise Palmar a bit). I push Palmar on his read on me: I disagree with him, and say he doesn't, so: Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 01:59 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2014 01:57 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2014 01:56 Palmar wrote:
and remember marv, I slow-cook my OMGUS no you don't. You really don't. you're right I guess ##vote marvellosity So he votes me. The point of all this is that Palmar is not leading the way in any of this. He half-heartedly calls me mafia when I start saying he's mafia, and he literally only votes for me when I tell him to. Palmar as town, if he's playing seriously, tries to genuinely find out what I'm doing, or he'll just full-blown omgus me. None of this in-the-middle, in-between-omgus-because-marv-told-me-to nonsense.
But marv! How can I call you mafia when you don't show me why you're mafia? Remember when I said my entire case on you is that you think I'm mafia? That was true.
Marv: "Palmar you're mafia"
Palmar: "Uh, are you scum marv? why am I mafia?"
Marv: "nuh uh, not gonna tell you, go do other things"
Palmar: "..."
Palmar: "I guess my case on you then is that you call me mafia"
Marv: "LOOK HE TOOK A LONG TIME CALLING ME MAFIA"
Of course I'm not leading the way in any of this, you're not saying anything that I can use to build a case on you. I mean it's a great gameplan, you're calling me out on something that's a direct result of how you respond towards me.
I bolded the important part. You now have to explain how you think I'd respond if you had immediately dropped any kind of reasons for thinking I'm scum. If your theory holds any water, I would have responded in the same way I did now. But I'm fairly confident (like I think I know myself) that I would have responded entirely differently if you had actually pushed your case at that point.
Then again, seeing as what we're talking about here is part of your case, you probably didn't really have a case at that time anyway.
On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:Regarding gumshoeThey had this thing at the beginning of the game. Kinda culminated in Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 09:36 Palmar wrote:On March 26 2014 09:30 gumshoe wrote:On March 26 2014 09:26 Palmar wrote:
Also regarding genuine, no matter my alignment I would always be genuine right now. There is a reason I asked rayn the question, and that reason exists whether or not I am mafia or town. So why do you say I am not genuine? I agree with you, a reason does exist, when the reason is some other than "Asking this question of rayn because I think hes scummy" I consider it not genuine and I'm forced to consider other reasonings other than the prefered default. As for why your not literally genuine, 2 reasons 1) I dont believe you couldnt come up with a reason for him asking me that question. 2) Going by the first bit. I dont understand why youd ask that question knowing how easy it is to answer. 3) Your quick acceptance indicated your confusion was meh, possibly non existant. If the bolded is true I am mafia for asking that question, no matter what. The only answer you accept as genuine can not possibly be given at that point in the thread because it's completely unreasonable to think rayn is scummy at that point. Thus by your own definition I must be mafia for asking that question and there is no need for you to follow up on it, as any answer I give will always make me mafia in your eyes. ##Vote gumshoe Just as a brief recap into Palmar's usual modus operandi, he'll usually try to delve into someone's motives as much as he can, and when he's decided someone is mafia, they're gonna be mafia, he'll have some (a lot) of faith in his own read usually. Anyways so yeah, voting gumshoe. Shortly after in the conversation: Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 10:03 Palmar wrote:On March 26 2014 09:59 gumshoe wrote:On March 26 2014 09:56 Palmar wrote:
Which questions did I not cover?
And you still need to explain why the magic phrase "I was trying to create discussion" is a get out of jail free card. Not until you answer definitively yes or no. That is the question, the only question I have of you. which one, whether or not I was trying to create discussion? Seeing as I posted as much in the next post after I asked rayn the question I thought the answer should be default, did you not notice that? And no, it's an opportunity to do something that may or may not provide something useful, so yes I was creating discussion and no that wasn't the sole purpose of the question. Do I get to go home now officer? This bolded part (and also his general tone in his posts after he votes gumshoe, you can go check for yourselves) actually mostly seems to imply that gumshoe is in fact town, and Palmar is defending his stance against a town gumshoe. Not that gumshoe is mafia (supposedly) and twisting what Palmar is doing to a scummy narrative.[/Quote Later on he decides: Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 22:12 Palmar wrote:On March 26 2014 22:10 phagga wrote:On March 26 2014 21:58 Palmar wrote:On March 26 2014 19:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar what do you think gumshoe's alignment is and how sure you are of it? probably town Why do you think gumshoe is town? Because he was an asshole to me, I don't think scumshoe would be an asshole to me. Palmar has changed his opinion for no particular reason. It's weak, and it's weak reasoning, given what has come before. Some other thing of note: Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 21:58 Palmar wrote:On March 26 2014 19:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar what do you think gumshoe's alignment is and how sure you are of it? probably town Town-Palmar almost never answers questions on alignment with a simple statement read like this. If he does so, it's in a jokey-trolly way, like "prplhz confirmed town hero" or "Holyflare is not my scumbuddy". Palmar is a massive proponent of always explaining why your read is what it is, but he neglects to do so until pushed.
Seeing as we agree on gumshoe's alignment it seems really strange that you're trying to call me out on coming to the same conclusion as you did. Are you accusing me of changing my mind? I guess I'm guilty as charged officer. Oh man, if only I had the presence of mind to just randomly weigh in on the discussion instead of actually having it like this marv.
Do you think it's unreasonable for me to think gumshoe's aggressiveness towards me at the beginning of the game is very uncharacteristic of what I'd assume is how he plays mafia? I got mad and voted him when he called me scum for not thinking rayn is scum based on rainbows, but seeing how he played that pick your power game it's very hard to think he has stepped up his scumgame so much since then.
Also, because meta:
The bolded holds true for any alignment. I was scum last game and I didn't answer like this. So why does it make me scum that I do?
On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
tldr: Palmar doesn't care about finding mafia, even though he kinda tries to make it look like he's interested. He has no real reads on anyone even though he's given superficial reads which require no thought. He's inconsistent in a spineless way re:gumshoe. His attitude towards me has been pretty spineless because frankly he doesn't know how to deal with me, whereas if he were town he'd smack me down rather than practically have me make him vote me. The dude is mafia.
Again I'll concede this. I have no idea how to deal with you. I know you won't be bullied into explaining your stuff, and there is nothing to smack you down on.
In fact, because most of your case is based on assumptions on how I play, do you disagree that I generally hold my vote until I make a case and I can push it as town?
The only reason I didn't smack you down is that you refused to give me something to smack down, you just called me scum and then went on your way. I have never cared about actually voting, because I don't consider a vote a vote unless it's being backed up by a push and you know this. So why do you think it's a point against me that I didn't vote you initially? I had nothing to base a case on.
Townmarv doesn't think like this, but I know who does
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EPT
