I'm not gonna sit here and argue with people. Night posting is fucking dumb. The rule should be taken out of the game as it only benefits mafia and that's all I'm gonna say for the rest of this cycle...I've already said more than I wanted to last night because I was heated as fuck

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

March 28 2014 14:31 GMT

#545

On March 28 2014 23:08 IAmRobik wrote:
I'm not gonna sit here and argue with people. Night posting is fucking dumb. The rule should be taken out of the game as it only benefits mafia and that's all I'm gonna say for the rest of this cycle...I've already said more than I wanted to last night because I was heated as fuck

You should at least state your suspicions in case you're nightkilled.

Valenius

United Kingdom1266 Posts

March 28 2014 14:33 GMT

#546

Not now though, that'd be rather stupid.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

March 28 2014 14:50 GMT

#547

...why would it? Serious question. I don't understand how withholding information like that helps the town at all.

Obviously if you're only going to do it once, later is better, but I don't follow at all what the issue is.

Valenius

United Kingdom1266 Posts

March 28 2014 15:24 GMT

#548

Think it through, if im here tomorrow ill explain it more thoroughly (from my perspective). Dont think of it as witholding information, just delaying it.

IAmRobik

United States5878 Posts

March 28 2014 15:26 GMT

#549

On March 28 2014 23:31 Eden1892 wrote:

Show nested quote +

You should at least state your suspicions in case you're nightkilled.

Because the next day you're stuck with the same "WIFOM" that you were bitching about with regards to the cop.

You give mafia a chance to make a more informed decision. I don't like it. Not one bit.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

March 28 2014 16:02 GMT

#550

That WIFOM exists regardless. If we didn't talk during the night phase, they would just nightkill based on the day phase arguments and suspicions, and it would be the same argument. The only thing that not talking during the night phase does is remove one-third of our discussion time from the game. There is no benefit to this and the harm should be readily apparent.

Valenius

United Kingdom1266 Posts

March 28 2014 16:07 GMT

#551

Seeing as were habing this discussiin apparently..

Im fine with posting reads etc in the night phase, as long as they're shortly before deadline.

Lord Tolkien

United States12084 Posts

March 28 2014 16:09 GMT

#552

I can only post close to the deadline because of legitimate time constraints tonight,

But to Robik and Valenius:

There’s general discussion that people should avoid talking about their reads to avoid directing Mafia’s night kill. This is wrong. Night is the best time to analyze the lynch and the events of the previous day, because after the kill, everyone is going to be focused on the night kill and the previous day will be drowned out.

AKA LII Newbie Mafia writeup we all should have read.

The correct play is TO be talking about it.

Lord Tolkien

United States12084 Posts

March 28 2014 16:10 GMT

#553

*post comprehensively

Lord Tolkien

United States12084 Posts

March 28 2014 16:20 GMT

#554

Reads OTOH could be left for later into the night. Still discussion is always good for town.

IAmRobik

United States5878 Posts

March 28 2014 16:23 GMT

#555

On March 29 2014 01:09 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I can only post close to the deadline because of legitimate time constraints tonight,

But to Robik and Valenius:

Show nested quote +

AKA LII Newbie Mafia writeup we all should have read.

The correct play is TO be talking about it.

Just because someone wrote that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. My first coach told me I'm terrible and that my reads suck.

As for Eden talking about night talk being the same as day talk...that's 100% incorrect. Night talk is different because your reads are now adjusted based off of the day flip. Prime example:

Eden makes the case at the end of the day: If cava flips mafia, then rob most likely mafia, otherwise rob prolly town. Then if I'm mafia, I can be like, hmmmm, maybe let's keep eden around since he thinks that I'm town based off of the flip, and then eden doesn't die with his thought that i'm actually mafia, as he expressed at the beginning of night phase and instead he comes out gunning for me unexpectedly.

And that, my friends, is why night talking is different from day talking.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

March 28 2014 16:26 GMT

#556

Guys, you're not getting it (although Tolkien is close enough so this doesn't really apply to you). There is no argument for withholding anything just because it's nighttime. Reads, discussion, pressure, whatever, this is a full third of the game that y'all seem content to flush down the drain out of a paranoid worry that the mafia might do something to subvert our discussion with their choice of kill. Guess what? They're always going to try to subvert our discussion with their choice of kill! This isn't a valid argument against nighttime discussion.

Furthermore, the fact that this was apparently explicitly spelled out in the postgame analysis for LII makes me more suspicious of whoever was in that game and is advancing these arguments. There's less excuse for ignorance in that case, which necessarily increases the possibility of malevolence.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

March 28 2014 16:30 GMT

#557

On March 29 2014 01:23 IAmRobik wrote:As for Eden talking about night talk being the same as day talk...that's 100% incorrect. Night talk is different because your reads are now adjusted based off of the day flip. Prime example:

Eden makes the case at the end of the day: If cava flips mafia, then rob most likely mafia, otherwise rob prolly town. Then if I'm mafia, I can be like, hmmmm, maybe let's keep eden around since he thinks that I'm town based off of the flip, and then eden doesn't die with his thought that i'm actually mafia, as he expressed at the beginning of night phase and instead he comes out gunning for me unexpectedly.

And that, my friends, is why night talking is different from day talking.

This is completely backwards; the optimal thing in that situation would be for you to shoot me, so I die after having said you're town. If I withheld my change of heart on you then my death would send the direct opposite message from what I wanted to send.

Valenius

United Kingdom1266 Posts

March 28 2014 16:30 GMT

#558

I was in that game, and cant remember jack shit from the postgame. I was just relieved we had won. It being posted and it being noticed are different things.

IAmRobik

United States5878 Posts

March 28 2014 16:32 GMT

#559

On March 29 2014 01:30 Eden1892 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't know what fucking meta level you play on, but if there is someone that is supporting me and I'm mafia, I have full incentive to keep them alive, ESPECIALLY when there's no cop left.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

March 28 2014 16:37 GMT

#560

You're right, "the optimal play" was overstating it, but I don't think you're considering the other side of the equation. If you knew that I was withholding my reads by not talking during the night, you can't trust that I'm going to stay on your side. Whether you shoot me or not depends on how willing you are to trust that I'll stay on your side. The nightkill choice is WIFOM regardless of whether we talk during the night or not.

Again, the only thing that not talking during the night ensures is that we waste a third of our discussion time and that we potentially leave outdated reads that lead the town astray.