EPTDoctor Who Mafia 2 - Page 6
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 04 2014 05:09 Hopeless1der wrote: "You are Mickey Smith, ex-boyfriend of Rose Tyler. You hate it when she leaves on her escapades with the Doctor and have even taken to following her for what little time you see her. You are a watcher, but you target whoever Rose Tyler targets. (You never see Rose visit someone and if Rose isn't in game, it is a random selection of who you watch). You win with the Town." Rose targetted "someone". Vivax also targetted "someone". This is all i know @hopeless1der From your role description, you are not notified that Rose visited someone. So, how could you know that Rose targeted someone? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
It sounds to me like if Rose targets someone, hopeless1der only should get informed about the people who visited the target, but doesn't see Rose. This makes sense because this limitation (not seeing Rose) means he doesn't know if there is a Rose in the game or if he was given a random player. However, he claims that Rose targeted someone. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
If hopeless provides an explanation I believe then I would probably push hopeless down on my scumlist. I would also need to re-evaluate JJD because I didn’t do a thorough filter dive of JJD for this post. Summary (Most scum to most town) scum/scummy (Hopeless1der) (JarJarDrinks) weaker scumread Kitaman27 To reread (Not sure, but I generally feel djo / vivax is more towny than tehpoofter/thrawn) Tehpoofter / Thrawn2112 Djodref / Vivax Kushm4sta towny Austinmcc (JarJar/Hopeless go here if I believe hopeless isn’t scum) -- Scummy (1) Hopeless1der - Claimed Mickey Smith (watcher that must target whoever JJD targets) - Claimed JarJarDrinks/Rose and Vivax/? both visited Austinmcc on n1 At this moment I feel I caught hopeless as scum (see my post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=95#1898) because he seems to have visit information that he shouldn’t have according to the terms of his role. (2) JarJarDrinks - Claimed Rose Tyler (has night visit, power unknown, target is watched by hopeless) I’m not sure I would feel JJD is scum except for the interaction with hopeless1der. Basically, JJD is confirming hopeless by saying that he visited Austin. It is possible JJD is innocent but still confirms hopeless. For instance, maybe hopeless is fakeclaiming, and his actual role lets him see who a town visits and learn the town’s role. He targets JJD, learns that JJD is Rose and that JJD visited Austin, then makes the fake claim. This is possible, but it feels pretty remote to me. So, I think JJD is either town, or he is Weaker Scumreads (3) kitaman27 I am not satisfied with this explanation but I think it is compelling enough kita should make my scumlist. Kita has made two cases and I haven’t felt that good about either one. I read his filter and nothing really jumped out to me as scum, despite trying quite a bit to read through d1. I really felt like there should be something that jumped out given rayn’s certainty, but there wasn’t anything specific. I just didn’t like his cases. I did vote rayn d1, but it was mostly because of some inconsistencies in rayn’s posts (that kita didn’t mention) and rayn’s reaction to kita’s case (which felt really off to me). I didn’t like kita’s case d2 on Vivax. I don’t know, I feel bad criticizing kita when he’s actually put effort into making cases. I feel like if kita dies I’m not confident we’ll have someone who will sort of force us to focus on a specific person. But, the cases just don’t feel right to me. I don’t like that he disappeared during some of the substantive talking at the end of d2, but I will be mostly forgiving because I get pulled into real life things too. At the same time, I think the way kita’s case on rayn developed works against the idea that kita built cases around a player. To explain this better: I think town would read players, then make a case on the scummiest player. Mafia would look for someone to mislynch or who is a threat, and make a case around that player. Here, it feels like kita’s method doesn’t let him pick who he can build the case around, so it doesn’t seem like a mafia case. But, then again, kita even admits that he encourages rayn to make reads on him and review his prior cases, so in some ways Kita is picking the target for the case. I could write some more but honestly I’m just back and forth on Kita. It feels like there’s reasonable explanations for a lot of what he’s done, I just don’t like his cases and that’s kind of where it leaves me. Reread Tehpoofter / Thrawn2112 / Djodref / Vivax: I need to reread these players and place them, right now they feel neutral. I see djo and vivax as slightly more towny than tehpoofter and thrawn. But they all could use a re-read. - Vivax claimed to visit austinmcc n1 Kushm4sta: - Claimed extra vote d1 - Used vig shot d2 I’m a little scared of his role, but his shot on gumshoe felt townie to me… but I don’t really know what gumshoe was doing. Lol. towny (JarJar/Hopeless probably go here if I believe hopeless isn’t scum) Austinmcc: I won’t pretend to fully understand him, but I feel he is town. His views just seem to align with mine pretty often – I noticed this again in the response to the push on Vivax. -- Reads / Conversions I think we should post reads, but actually working through this post made me feel that it is not a tool that will effectively nullify conversion. We can’t really hold each other to our read list because other players in the game may be getting converted... even if everyone townreads someone, we can’t very well remove that person as a lynch candidate because it just means there’s a higher risk they’ll be converted. So I’m all for posting reads, but I would note there’s some problems there. Followup I’m got pulled away part way through this post and I’m going to sleep now. I’ll try to update on the people I need to reread when possible. (Also seriously no one posted this whole time? D: ) [b]@kitaman27 : Are you willing to elaborate on your read of djodref? Specifically, this: [B]On April 02 2014 09:17 kitaman27 wrote: Nevermind on that one. I've actually removed djo from my ever shrinking possible mafia lynch. Originally, I was thinking that he took the position he did knowing more information than he should about rayn and my alignments, but I don't think that applies as well as I thought. There was something else that I found townie from him that I won't go into. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 04 2014 13:52 Hopeless1der wrote: JJD claimed Rose...JJD confirmed that his target matched Vivax's target (austinmcc). What is the discrepancy here Amiko? I'm headed to bed, I'll check back in the morning. The discrepancy is that according to your role, you should not see Rose. In other words, the report back to you should be "Vivax targeted ??" not "JJD targeted ??. Vivax targeted ??" Because according to your roleclaim, "You never see Rose visit someone" In other words, Hopeless1der, you should not know whether Rose visited someone. From your role description, you should be unsure whether you are getting someone that Rose visited, or if you were assigned a random player to watch. This makes me think: - Either you and JJD are working together and talking outside the thread to coordinate - JJD is not actually Rose, because Rose would not appear in your check. @hopeless1der Please get back to me when you can since this feels pretty important to me. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Also, just so we clarify as much as possible: - When you received your watching information, were you given player names (like "Hopeless1der") or character names (like "Mickey Smith")? - Did your report say a) Vivax & JJD visited ??? b) Vivax & JJD visited austin c) Vivax & ??? visited ??? or what? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I'm going to bed soon but if you are still here let me know if what I am saying about hopeless makes sense or if I'm just sleep deprived or something | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Basically, I through some of the players (kita, vivax, austin). When I get back I read hopeless - then I see hopeless' information as inconsistent with his role claim. JJD verifies hopeless' claim. So it feels like either JJD, hopeless, or both are lying. But, I do agree with JJD that based on the d2 interactions it is hard for me to think both of them are lying. JJD do you get what rose red flags to me about hopeless' claim / information inconsistency? Maybe I misunderstood hopeless but I reread it a few times and I don't think I did. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Vivax needs a reread because of his involvement so if Itake hopeless as lying I should reconsider him | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
(I'm not sure irrespective is a word, what I mean is even if I dont consider hopeless as lying kita felt scum) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Hopeless' claimed role is not useless at all from my point of view. If you feel differently let me know and I'll give some examples. I still don't like that he presented his checks initially as knowing that Rose visited his target when I feel like that's not a fair assumption to make. But, I agree... I don't think it can make him scum unless it's part of a more elaborate plan where you two confirm each other. It's possible but it feels too remote. I've raised massclaiming repeatedly for two purposes. One, I think it's a better idea as the game goes on. I'll claim tonight, probably just before night ends. Second, I thought mentioning massclaims would be an innocuous way to probe to see whether players were changing their minds. Converted players probably have to keep their reads somewhat consistent, but I figured they may be more likely to be open to massclaims. As an aside, Kita was consistent. But, I still think he could be a cyberman/scum. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 05 2014 03:59 austinmcc wrote: I generally disfavor massclaims, sometimes just for "fun" reasons, sometimes because I overvalue blue roles. From other themed games, and being scum in themed games, I think one of the benefits of massclaiming is being able to DIRECT actions. If we all want to claim, we should consider claiming BEFORE resolution, so as to try and get people to prove themselves/not do scummy stuff by directing their actions. However, because of the lack of notifications, that's not as useful as in some other games. Normally it's nice to know if someone actually got roleblocked, or JKed, or whatever, because the target can confirm the action. Here we lack a lot of confirmation tools and so I don't think that's relevant and guess it's not important to time things so that we can direct actions. Agreed. Better to claim tonight. Plus, austin, it'll be "fun" if we claim a role, then get cyber-converted and maybe lose our role or have to use it in a way we dislike because of the claim. I'll look at your kush questions | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 05 2014 03:45 Crossfire99 wrote: Night actions are due in . After that, no more actions will be accepted. Make sure to send actions to all hosts. Actually, why don't we post our roles right after this countdown? Then, we have one hour between our claims and night ending, and we can talk about roles while everyone is alive. Scum can't change their actions because their night actions are locked in already. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 05 2014 04:04 Amiko wrote: Actually, why don't we post our roles right after this countdown? Then, we have one hour between our claims and night ending, and we can talk about roles while everyone is alive. Scum can't change their actions because their night actions are locked in already. AND if someone is converted tonight, they don't even know it yet. So maybe they will kill their brethren :D | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
D1 kushm4sta claims the extra vote. The competing wagons (Alakaslam, Gumshoe) have both flipped as town/3p. So, if he only has a limited use of his extra vote, I'm not sure why he would use it d1. He probably doesn’t care too much which of these three wagons is lynched since all are town. If he's scum, why is his preference rayn? Some possibilities - Fear of rayn as a strong / active player - To protect another scum? But, rayn was pushing for a lynch on kitaman27, so it means scum would group and use an extra vote when they don't seem to need to do so. Going to try to look into austin's questions on thrawn now | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 05 2014 03:45 Crossfire99 wrote: Night actions are due in . After that, no more actions will be accepted. Make sure to send actions to all hosts. Sorry will post on thrawn after deadline. Please post at the countdown! | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
"You are Porridge, a “little bloke” in the words of Angie Maitland, who you met at one of the greatest amusement parks in the galaxy, Hedgewick’s World of Wonders. You were part of con involving Webley who convinced others that he repurposed a nonfunctioning Cyberman to play chess when in reality it was just you who played chess from a little compartment. You win with the Town." (VT) | ||
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