EPTOn January 25 2014 04:53 bumatlarge wrote:
I feel really strongly that JLaw being a mislynch today would lose a lot of traction for town has right now.
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1) While you bring up a lot of neat points, artanis, none of it is really damning. JL talking about balla and not voting him until the end is curious, but eventually he does when it matters, I don't think he is trying to gain anything by it. It looks more like a town thought process.
I feel really strongly that JLaw being a mislynch today would lose a lot of traction for town has right now.
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 25 2014 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
1. Interaction with Balla seems fake.
He pressures Balla a bit, then when Balla answers him he doesn't do anything with it, just continues to call him scum. He knows the alignment of Balla already so he doesn't actually care about the answers. He just wants interaction for distancing.
2. His read on Kush makes no sense.
He says this is exactly how Kush plays. So clearly he knows a lot about Kush's meta.
Welp, that's weird. He suddenly forgot 90 minutes later.
3. Voting pattern compared to reads
VE already brought this up.
He's thought Balla was scum all game long, but doesn't really interact with him much, nor does he vote for him until he's already dead and buried.
[b]4. Accuses people without purpose.
So there's this thing he found interesting except he could see it done as both alignments. Okay.
[b]5. Keeps trying to get cred for the Balla lynch
After the lynch, Jonny seems more interested in getting credit for the lynch despite not having voted for him until the last moment than anything else.
6. Can't keep his own story straight
Rayn already said it.
That should be pretty much slam dunk already. Now for the recent posts which seem to have given people a townread on him somehow.
7. Case on Suki
Cases can be bad and that doesn't make the person that makes them scummy. However, the choice of target on its own doesn't make sense. When you're a townie and you feel down and out and there's one person trying to motivate you to try again, who do you filter first to try and find scum? Generally it isn't the person trying to motivate you. So why would a scum JL do it?
Because she was the best target that no one had really made a case on yet. Making a case on Bum wouldn't get you any credit because VE's already done it. Suki was the one with the filter easiest to portrait as scum that no one did yet. A perfect target for a scum case. The effort involved wasn't too much either, simply quoting posts and adding a line here and there and suddenly towncred galore.
8. Instant flip with town consensus
Okay, now that the town cred has been accrued, let's see who we can actually lynch. Artanis is getting a lot of votes, let's plop my vote down there. What's strange is that the thing that's showing I'm town the most, the effort I put into getting my target lynched, is somehow scummy to him. From all the things in my filter that's what he points out. It shows a lack of a town mindset.
Lynch JonnyLaw. He's scum. Lynch me if I'm wrong.
1. Interaction with Balla seems fake.
He pressures Balla a bit, then when Balla answers him he doesn't do anything with it, just continues to call him scum. He knows the alignment of Balla already so he doesn't actually care about the answers. He just wants interaction for distancing.
2. His read on Kush makes no sense.
He says this is exactly how Kush plays. So clearly he knows a lot about Kush's meta.
Welp, that's weird. He suddenly forgot 90 minutes later.
3. Voting pattern compared to reads
VE already brought this up.
He's thought Balla was scum all game long, but doesn't really interact with him much, nor does he vote for him until he's already dead and buried.
[b]4. Accuses people without purpose.
So there's this thing he found interesting except he could see it done as both alignments. Okay.
[b]5. Keeps trying to get cred for the Balla lynch
After the lynch, Jonny seems more interested in getting credit for the lynch despite not having voted for him until the last moment than anything else.
6. Can't keep his own story straight
Rayn already said it.
That should be pretty much slam dunk already. Now for the recent posts which seem to have given people a townread on him somehow.
7. Case on Suki
Cases can be bad and that doesn't make the person that makes them scummy. However, the choice of target on its own doesn't make sense. When you're a townie and you feel down and out and there's one person trying to motivate you to try again, who do you filter first to try and find scum? Generally it isn't the person trying to motivate you. So why would a scum JL do it?
Because she was the best target that no one had really made a case on yet. Making a case on Bum wouldn't get you any credit because VE's already done it. Suki was the one with the filter easiest to portrait as scum that no one did yet. A perfect target for a scum case. The effort involved wasn't too much either, simply quoting posts and adding a line here and there and suddenly towncred galore.
8. Instant flip with town consensus
Okay, now that the town cred has been accrued, let's see who we can actually lynch. Artanis is getting a lot of votes, let's plop my vote down there. What's strange is that the thing that's showing I'm town the most, the effort I put into getting my target lynched, is somehow scummy to him. From all the things in my filter that's what he points out. It shows a lack of a town mindset.
Lynch JonnyLaw. He's scum. Lynch me if I'm wrong.
1) While you bring up a lot of neat points, artanis, none of it is really damning. JL talking about balla and not voting him until the end is curious, but eventually he does when it matters, I don't think he is trying to gain anything by it. It looks more like a town thought process.
I disagree strongly. This is exactly the kind of thing you want to do as scum; accuse your buddies without getting votes on him.
[2) His vote on kush is bad, but again that looks like faulty town play. He never apears to call kush town, just saying "that's how he plays", as either alignment. He is interested in how rayn came to his conclusion. He does think it over before he votes him, the distance between those posts you gave about kush are hours away from each and alot happens in between then.
It doesn't look like faulty town play, it looks like a scum who can't keep his story together. Yes, it's hours away but he said he knew exactly how to read Kush, then proceeds to say he doesn't.
3) His vote on zarepath isn't awful either. EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM. I would have rather lynched VE, and I ate flak for taking my vote off him, and you had a town read on me at the time. His reasons are on par with someone trying to scumhunt. You would have to reach a good amount to turn that into scum that is slightly bussing.
It's not about whether he thought Zarepath was scum or not, it's about how easily he stepped off the person he thought was scummiest, then proceeded to have no problems with voting for the scumspect of his scumspect.
4) Rayn accuses people without purpose to generate reads. I think JLaw's attacks have a similar goal; to draw out content from certain players. Crossfire had barely any content. He was attempting to bring attention to it an wasn't pushing CF as anything. All of this just indicates that JLaw is reading the thread and trying to come up with reads.
I agree that this can be interpreted as both alignments. However, I feel the scummy one is more likely given the rest of the case; JL finds a place to throw poop at and proceeds to do so.
5/6) I think he deserves some... His post with suki about balla "playing his town game" is out of place, though.
Not really. He wasn't the one that made it happen, Rayn was. All he did was accuse but convince no one.
7) I find this very silly. He is developing reads, and going into territory no one has gone before is town, not mafia. Your reasons why this is scummy are completely far-fetched.
I'm not saying they're scummy per say, but people had scumreads on JL until these posts after which he suddenly became town to them. I'm saying that JL's posts even after D2 where he improved can easily be explained from a scum perspective.
8) This is alignment-read bias. If you are really convinced someone is scum, everything they do is going to have a mafia reason.
And it makes perfect sense when you look at him from a mafia perspective, too. Especially with the early stuff it's damning.
Anyway, it doesn't matter since I'm getting lynched first. Just lynch JL after I flip green, then treat Kush/Thrawn with extreme scrutiny. I'm out. There's only so much arguing with Kush one can have on one day. GL Town!
