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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 04:29 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think it's likely that scum sandroba moved the lynch from 2-3 to 3-3 onto a scum Prom? When you get a chance ^ | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean if it was his last act in the game then I don't see why not - especially if you're talking about the 2-3 vote being onto prom, as if this is plurality lynch then the other guy would have been voted off anyway. Why would sandroba think it was his last action in the game? It didn't even look remotely close to a sandroba lynch at the time. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:11 kitaman27 wrote: Why would sandroba think it was his last action in the game? It didn't even look remotely close to a sandroba lynch at the time. And it was 3-2 Foolishness. Is there a reason you haven't even checked on how the votes went down? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:12 kitaman27 wrote: And it was 3-2 Foolishness. Is there a reason you haven't even checked on how the votes went down? Nevermind. But you think it's a risk worth taking? Making it 3-3 rather than 2-4? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I have a general idea of how they went down. I know Foolish was up for lynch, and Prom and sand both were possibilities. I was thinking about switching to Prom but felt like Foolish was manipulating me and so I stayed on Foolish. Like, it just seems like people are putting WAAAAY too much stock into VCA. That hardly ever happens here, and I'm starting to see why. Isn't that incredibly relevant though? sandroba has his choice of lynches there. You think he goes for the bus to further his on position? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:15 marvellosity wrote: Does anyone else find that Toad not reading holy's posts sketchy, or am i making something out of nothing? I'd expect him to read it at some point due to the need to see if cases against him are legitimate, but if he is using his time on other stuff I'd not entirely concerned. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2014 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm town. And damn sexy. On January 24 2014 05:10 VisceraEyes wrote: The important thing to remember when considering my read of Foolishness is that I know that I'm town. On January 24 2014 05:48 VisceraEyes wrote: All I know for sure is that I'm town On January 24 2014 05:58 VisceraEyes wrote: You're removing my opinion, but I'm town giving more power to scum. On January 25 2014 07:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Not that I think they're meaningless, but I know that at least I'm town Is there a reason you find it necessary to say this so many times? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 00:08 kitaman27 wrote: This is the post that still bothers me the most about Foolishness when he groups austin and sandroba in his null reads. Foolishness, I know you stated several times that you were treating sandroba as wait and see, but what are the "strong appearances" and "things brought to the thread" that you are referring to with sandroba's posts. I mentioned earlier that I disagreed with his assessment, but you didn't reply. Could you please point out what you were seeing? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 09:52 Foolishness wrote: Before you post, you might want to read my previous posts. Saving you effort and humility. Also might save you from getting lynched down the line (cause I think you're town at the moment). Humility? I thought you were town yesterday, I'm thinking you're mafia today. 100% CHANCE OF BEING RIGHT AT SOME POINT IN THERE. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
TL Mafia XLIV TL Mafia XXX Personality Mafia 2 Responsibility Mafia The single most important part of this argument is the way Foolishness has been pushing lynches this game. + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: The thing about Promethelax is that his first post is a big pile of words and nobody said anything about it besides WoS which was just a passing remark. Here's the post again: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 11:35 Promethelax wrote: Okay broskis, this is just silly. We know how to start a game and it isn't this Mafia Scum inspired baseless lynches shall we discuss policy? Why yes we shall because you all will actually have to commit to something. Since we aren't the run of the mill hokey dory TL types I think its time we set a few ground rules: there should be no discussion of policy lynching lurkers. We simply lynch them. If everyone is good enough to be shadowed everyone is good enough to play the game and we cannot tolerate lurkers. It is my hope that this particular policy doesn't come into play since, obviously, we are the best that TL has so we should play the best as well and lurking simply isn't the best. We are all good enough to carry a town and I would like us all to be that good this game. Play your hearts out gentlemen. I would also like a non-aggression pact. That is we all agree to play nice since I'd rather like to be good role models for our newbies. And yes, I know I'm scummy for posting this, does someone want to come out and say it so that I can defend myself and we can move on with this game and make actual cases on each other and find scum. Unlike WoS I was excited to roll scum in this game, I figured I'd have an excuse to be steamrolled but if I did a good job it would be a huge accomplishment but no, I'm town, I have to figure things out. I would much rather lie to you all but fuck me, I don't get to lie to you. I gotta work for my money. So get it together boys, we are policy lynching lurkers, we aren't going to be mean to each other and we are going to catch scum. And we'll start with Hapa making a case on me, why? Because its tradition is why. Promethelax even admits that his post is awful and that we should call him out on it. Sounds great to me! This kinda bait is definitely a mafia trait and if he thinks he's posting bad then we should definitely lynch him for it. The reason being, if he knows his post his bad why is he making it in the first place? His initial post accomplishes nothing and says nothing and only adds fluff to the thread. I am also bothered by his most recent thread post: Because all his reads feel very convenient. There is nothing in his filter that gives us new information or his original thoughts. Remember Foolishness's first huge post about the game? Lets take away all the quotes and town reads, which are incredibly easy to throw around like candy. This is what it looks like if we're just looking at his Prom case: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: The thing about Promethelax is that his first post is a big pile of words and nobody said anything about it besides WoS which was just a passing remark. Here's the post again: Promethelax even admits that his post is awful and that we should call him out on it. Sounds great to me! This kinda bait is definitely a mafia trait and if he thinks he's posting bad then we should definitely lynch him for it. The reason being, if he knows his post his bad why is he making it in the first place? His initial post accomplishes nothing and says nothing and only adds fluff to the thread. I am also bothered by his most recent thread post: Because all his reads feel very convenient. There is nothing in his filter that gives us new information or his original thoughts. This is an incredibly limited amount of content in regards to scum hunting. For a post that large, it shows that a limited amount of effort was actually put on scum hunting. He attacks Prom for using a bile of words and saying nothing, yet he is the one spending more time explaining why people like hapa or myself are town or saying that lurkers that haven't posted are null. Now lets take a look at how he pushes the case: On January 23 2014 05:07 Foolishness wrote: 3) Promethelax is scum. Err....ok then. Anything to add? On January 23 2014 05:31 Foolishness wrote: I don't see any arguments that show that Promethelax is pushing the town in the right direction or pushing a pro-town agenda. He's responded sure, but where's the conviction and the push to get something done? Hmm, well alright. So are you even going to push the player that you state as scum as if it's a fact? On January 23 2014 05:57 Foolishness wrote: I already said that I'm prefectly okay with HolyFlare getting lynched. And by perfectly okay, I really mean okay. As in, if guys are that convinced that Promethelax needs another chance then please let me know now so I can move my vote. Apparently not. Lets see how he pushes the case when it comes to crunch time. On January 23 2014 06:39 Foolishness wrote: The problem is is that Promethelax is mafia and there is solid information on why. What's the information saying sandroba is mafia? oh he's inactive. There is apparently solid information, yet raise of hands: who is convinced by this post? He hasn't even mentioned Prom since his first large post 24 hours ago. He doesn't feel the need to highlight any of the posts. On January 23 2014 07:11 Foolishness wrote: sandroba is not a good lynch when Promethelax and HolyFlare are still alive. On January 23 2014 07:52 Foolishness wrote: Should just do the Promethelax lynch cause that's a lynch for mafia. Sandroba is still iffy Again, where are the compelling key points that show Prom is mafia? On January 23 2014 07:54 Foolishness wrote: Perhaps I'm just that sure on Promethelax, and in these situations my reads get messed up in my head because of all the pressure. So I default to my strongest read before going on crazy goose chases. Take a look at Foolishness's original case. Now pretend you're Foolishness. After reading those statements, do you think it's likely that a town Foolishness is as confident as he is based on those points? I don't. Now lets look at his actions this cycle. I feel the vote analysis can be made by a player of either alignment. There isn't any part of this that makes you think he has to be town aligned. In the end, vote analysis is going to be trumped by scum hunting, so here is what we get today: On January 24 2014 04:52 Foolishness wrote: What is disturbing about this is his wishy-washy behavior about me. He says he doesn't agree with my case on Promethelax, and that's fine in itself, and he also says he wants to "lynch me less". Then before voting for me says that my answers were "good enough" and that they "fit for a lack of a better term", and that it's my "early play that doesn't make sense to me". If my answers are fitting and good enough why are you voting for me? Just cause you don't agree with me on a person being mafia does not make me mafia. I was actually really surprised when he dropped his vote on me, who tells someone that they have good answers but they are still lynching them? What is also interesting is that he's entirely sheeping a read and admitting to it. Admitting to sheeping a read does not exempt you from sheeping a read. Does it seem like he has his own opinion on the matter? Does it seem like he has an idea of who to vote for? No. Look through his posts, he never really accuses anyone, and never says that he thinks person X would be a good lynch (as I said above, he never said that directly about me either). He dances around a lot of people, myself, marvellosity, Promethelax, etc. Sure, he threw his vote down and knew he wasn't going to be here before the deadline, and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that he had no opinion on who should be lynched before the vote. Also his vote started a landslide, since there were already 2 votes on me, and at the time the next closest persons had 1 vote. This is a critical vote because it started the pile up on me, and when people came back and saw this they started piling on (even though those people piling on are likely town cause they all jumped ship to sandroba). There are essentially three points he is making here. The third point isn't a reason why Wave is scum, it's a summery of game events. His first and second point don't address what differentiates a town Wave with a lack of confidence from a mafia player who is pushing a mafia agenda. That's the most important part, yet instead he goes with the generic case that could be used in just about any game. Again, lets look at the followup to his preferred lynch target: On January 24 2014 11:26 Foolishness wrote: WoS or VE today. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow Where is the aggressive tone or the powerful analysis that we should expect? I may have suggested that gonzaw's meta analysis cannot be applied to the first 3 posts of the game, but it certainly can be applied now. Rather that contributing the the scum hunting effort with he latest most. He gives us more vote analysis to argue that Prom is town. As Foolishness likes to say, WHO CARES? Finally, lets look at his final argument: On January 24 2014 05:07 Foolishness wrote: From what we know of day 1 if the four of you die then the town wins. On January 25 2014 09:35 Foolishness wrote: Town wins if WaveOfShadow, VisceraEyes, Kitaman, and Toad all die. This does absolutely no good for us today. He lists four different players and suggest that we kill one. In fact, he has called VE and myself obvious town, he still thinks I'm town, he hasn't provided a strong analysis on VE who he thought was obvious town, and hasn't mentioned toad. As a town player, I'd always watching for the player that is getting overlooked. He shows absolutely no signs of this. Instead of scum hunting we get, meh "VE or Wave" toodles! I did comment that I don't know who the third mafia would be. However, it's not clear who the third mafia is with any lynch target. I don't feel it's impossible for him to be paired with VE, WoS, Toad, or even austin. Players that go against him are "incredibly paranoid", pushing a "conspiracy", about to "lose the game for town" or are going to be "humiliated" afterwards. That's just a way to bully someone into looking elsewhere. Foolishness is mafia ##Vote Foolishness | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 10:54 Foolishness wrote: Wait, how is it bullying someone into looking elsewhere when it's the truth? That's the point you decide to cherry pick? On January 25 2014 10:54 Foolishness wrote: But also, your analysis fails to comment upon the numerous vote information I brought to the thread during the night (all made before your post keep in mind), the clear evidence that Promethelax is town, the mindset the mafia had during day 1 and the first lynch, and an outline of a plan for the town to win the game based on the lynch, votes and interactions. Your vote analysis isn't equivalent to scum hunting. You decide to spend your time informing the thread that Prom is town. I'm pretty sure I think prom is town, gonzaw thinks prom is town, marv thinks Prom is town, austin thinks Prom is town. What value is there in that? Instead, you've failed to provide a compelling case, aside from process of elimination. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 11:01 Foolishness wrote: Also, the meat of your argument seems to be that I lack a 10 page essay on why someone is mafia. I'll tell you right now that you certainly aren't getting one about any player in the game the next few days, and probably not for the entire game. I don't have the time in my life to do such a thing so I can only give you what I got with the time that I have to play this game. I don't require a 10 page essay. You haven't providing any arguements aside from "this player has a large post full of nothing", "this player isn't confident in his reads", or "this player didn't vote sandroba" | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 12:02 austinmcc wrote: I think you're making too much of the "lynch into these 4." If that was all Foolishness had said, period, then you would be 800% right to call him out on that. It's an 11 man game with 2 dead and everyone knows his own alignment though. To the extent someone thinks, with decent reasoning, that the sandroba lynch was ENTIRELY town, it's a perfectly valid statement. The most helpful? Naw. But I don't think anyone threw out all notes, stopped reading thread, and put those 4 names on a post it note for the next 4 lynches. Are you satisfied with the way he pushed the Prom lynch and his current case against Wave? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2014 12:04 austinmcc wrote: Do you think Foolishness is the BEST lynch for today? Most likely mafia? Or just he's got a good chance of flipping, but probably better prey elsewhere? I think it's between VE and Foolishness for me. Wave seems like he is putting enough effort into the game to warrant surviving at least one cycle longer than these two. I haven't seen a compelling argument against Toad yet. Holy was scummy null for me, but that was off a limited amount of posts. I'm mostly in wait and see mode on him. I'm on the fence with VE right now. A lot of the things he is doing I can see from a town or mafia VE. As of right now, Foolishness is the best lynch in my opinion. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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