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On January 23 2014 08:53 gonzaw wrote:
He did show up EXACTLY after sandro voted him, and did in fact just go against Foolishness instead of being suspicious of the super suspiciously sketchy vote on him by the lurker that was AFK the whole game which he bowed to policy lynch.
Meh. Makes a nice conspiracy theory lol If the two were scum though, I'd HOPE that sandro would...put a little more into that post?
It was a really weak callout, I'd already mentioned the difference between here prome and PYP prome, but sandro just grabs that, dumps a single post, and dips. He got called on it too.
I know sandro is lazy as mafia, but...that's a REALLY lazy way to either get sandro cred when prome flips (because I think at that point it looked like votes were moving to prome and he might be the lynch), or get prome cred when sand flips. The first actually messes with my head more, because I could understand lazy sandro wanting to look okay if prome was going to be the lynch. I can't understand lazy sandro trying to set prome up as lookin' good at that point. Hmmmm. Will have to look at that time, I think it was just prome's third or so vote on him, but thread sentiment may have LOOKED really anti-prome.
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I have not seen as many D1 busses as you, apparently, WoS.
But yeah, the way the switches were working, I don't think ANYONE could see thread sentiment. I would happily have lynched someone else with 5 minutes to go, don't think I even voted until right towards deadline. I think the push was sudden enough that mafia either hops on or not, but only out of gut reaction, not because they could really see where things were headed. I mean, it was fast enough that, apart from foolishness, there wasn't really any push BACK that I saw.
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If it's PTP: Dr Who all over again, then town wins. I'll be last man standing on day 37 or whatever nonsense.
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I like hapa's chutzpah here, but am too content and lazy to engage in answering
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On January 23 2014 09:45 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 09:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
The conclusion should read read one more scum on Foolishness OR Prome. I firmly believe(d) VE to be town and I know my own alignment but I'm setting it up for you guys. Please go see your nearest doctor (You were also really scummy on me, in part, because I was townie on foolish, and now you...it seems believe us both to be town? Or likely town. I'm more biased about that read, but lynching scum doesn't make all our other reads right  )
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Hey VE, will you be around in an hour or so for less-frowny-face chat? I know there's all of D2 and whatnot, but seems like sooner is better than later and I promise 60% more fun than other posters or your...time back
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On January 24 2014 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probably austin. kk, I know there's a bunch more time, so no biggie. Also, I think I can up the percentage to way higher than 60
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On January 24 2014 06:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's fine, I'm done with this game. Honestly people are too tunneled in and there's literally nothing I can do. When I try and participate it is shat on, when I try and have conversations with people it's scum claiming, I have literally no will left to play this game.
Sorry austin, you didn't make it. Nuuuuuuuuuuuuu. If you're still around, lemme know. Otherwise I'll catch you later if alive. You know I'm generally not "crapping on people from outer space", and I can maybe even promise a paint pic or two.
I still don't think Toad nee Holy is mafia. Gonzaw, read that post about picking your brainz. The leadup to it and then the post. You see that set of posts coming from a mafia member?
I think people are reading way too much into votes and associations. You're fine to suspect me if you want, or find my vote the "most likely to be mafia" out of the votes on sand, fine. But you need to square that with the rest of my filter, I think. Like half of sand's filter is responses to me over prome/WoS/VE (AMG IS HE QUESTIONING SAND OR ARE THEY JUST PLAYING AROUND AND SCUMBUDDIES!?). I believe I'm also the first to have trouble with Foolishness's mention of sandroba in his list of reads, where he says sand is townier for getting active (possibly wrong there, but think it was me). So if you want a sand/me team, or a sand/foolish/me team, that's a whole heck of a lot of interaction between the team you're playing around at. If you really want to push that idea, it's super fine. But there's a LOT of throwing around scumteams and crap based off nothing more than votes and supposition, with very very little consideration of actual posting to back stuff up.
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On January 24 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
Don't worry austin. If it comes down to trying to make a case for you being town, I think we can work something out. Oh, I'm not worried about being lynched or looking scummy or whatever.
I'm concerned about people posting scumteams based of NOTHING but votes and timing, without any consideration for filters or anything.
Heck, I'd rather someone post a team and then just hammer at me and call me scum. At least then they have conviction and are pushing a read or...some sort of read. People just posting "this could maybe be the team, /out" is useless filler. Yes. It turns out there are other mafia, and any of us could be those people. But if you're not gonna push a team as a real idea, or not gonna read filters, then you're just posting to post.
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CLARIFICATION: "you" is not aimed at any particular player there, or at least not gonzaw. But there's been a boatload of speculative posts tonight, and also some good ones, but I think the good has gotten drowned out in the supposition
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On January 24 2014 06:51 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 06:44 austinmcc wrote:
I still don't think Toad nee Holy is mafia. Gonzaw, read that post about picking your brainz. The leadup to it and then the post. You see that set of posts coming from a mafia member? Ehmm..I dunno? Like, I guess I could see it come from a mafia member. Is it because it says "brainz" and not "brain"? I don't really want to put too much emphasis on that thing. I've passed scum as town because of that type of posts before; if I don't believe it comes from town 100% or my gut tells it to, then I'm wary to straight up ignore Holy/Toad because of it. It's more you guys are chatting, about you and foolishness. Then things stray away. In that post he tries to pull you back on track, make sure you guys keep talking about Foolishness/your read on Foolishness, but also sort of halfway joking as he does it.
Read the full progression of you/him talking. He starts by asking why you want a foolishness lynch over sandroba, given them both lurking pretty much equally. Actively saying WHY ARE YOU VOTING THIS UNKNOWN GUY OVER A NOW-KNOWN SCUMMER right off the bat.
Staying on your nuts. Responding to other people, marv and kita, about you, pretty clearly focused on you and foolishness. He seems to have actually read your posts on foolishness, and to have some legitimate, thought out, questions for you concerning that read. Sandroba entirely falls out of the picture after that first post, but his questions read, to me, like a townie pursuing something. When you sort of stray away and joke with hapa that HF is scum, HF almost...take offense, and tries to get you to keep talking to him about your foolishness posts (yes, you can spin that bit both ways, as HF suddenly not liking being called mafia, etc.)
In his post where he says he replaces out, he brings up sandroba againLike I said at the start, you shouldn't let people who get better later "sandroba AND foolishness (although he has posted now)" sit back, they should be entirely pressured. Sandroba even went so far as to get a good ++ (I think?) from foolishness??? despite his less than 1 page filter with nothing contributary in.
His vote is less sexy, as his scum targets are focused on you and people's response to your post on him ( you = gonzaw, him = HF). He doesn't mention sandroba as a possible vote. As mafia, I'd almost...expect that? List of 3 guys, all for one reason, he COULD throw sand in there somehow, just with foolishness getting flak and sand not.
Overall, the way that he goes back and forth with you, especially that one single post, and his kind of repeated questioning about why you're on foolishness and not sandroba, make me think he's unlikely mafia.
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On January 24 2014 06:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry austin, it's what I do sometimes.
I can't say there won't be more of it from me, but at the very least it'll be interspersed with 'better' stuff. VERY WELL, CITIZEN. YOU MAY BE ON YOUR WAY.
I think a couple people were doing it, and it's just...there's a lot of it. Lots and lots and lots of vote talk, timing talk, and very little consideration for votes PLUS FILTERS.
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I don't expect to die, and I'll probably keep posting, but if I get lazy here are some basic thoughts.
(1) Creating a list of "safe" people when we're ~50 hours til we even lynch anyone is sillypants, imo
(2) Foolishness should not be on any "safe" list
Consider:- Sandroba's primary scum suspect is Prome. Filter. Overall, Sandroba mildly defends Kita, is kind of wishy washy on Foolish (maybe giving weird vibes but need more posts), but is suspicious about Prome early, middle, and late in the day.
- For all Foolishness has posted that makes sense, this is the single worst thing he's typed into this thread:
On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote:
Questionable players
Austin
sandroba
marvellosity
Holyflare
Gonzaw
This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen.
For a guy that claims to have a purpose to everything he writes, this feels absolutely positively WRONG in a BAD WAY. It was noted by multiple folks. Whatever he posts today, right after lynch, tomorrow, etc, does not change the fact that he found Sandro to be bringing things to the thread, and specifically says if activity continues = town, afk for long periods = worry. - His followup, when questioned on that point, is BAD.
On January 23 2014 05:20 Foolishness wrote:
To explain Austin, at the time I made that post where you and sandroba are together, you and him had both shown up to the thread and posted a couple times, but that was it. My thinking was that, "okay, as long as these guys are here and continue to post they should be town". This especially applies to sandroba because he is known for being really inactive as mafia.
You're here and posting, should be obvious that you are town. He's not here and not posting, and that speaks volumes for him. He posted "a couple times." Hooray, go super townie sandro! However, (1) sandro is known for being REALLY INACTIVE AS MAFIA. (2) sandro is not posting, which SPEAKS VOLUMES - He keeps backing off while not backing off+ Show Spoiler +
On January 23 2014 06:39 Foolishness wrote:
...
I would not bat an eye if sandroba died. The problem is is that Promethelax is mafia and there is solid information on why. What's the information saying sandroba is mafia? oh he's inactive. Well great, welcome to day 1 sandroba. On January 23 2014 06:43 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 06:38 gonzaw wrote:
Foo, do you think maybe both sandro and marv are town? Care to answer that? Initial response is no. If they are both town then who is mafia? Promethelax, HolyFlare, and like, VE I guess? That doesn't make sense as there is no other third to put in. ... On January 23 2014 06:59 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 06:56 marvellosity wrote:
Fool in brief.
Am I mafia?
Is sand mafia?
Just based on likelihoods, doesn't need to be certain Yes Yes On January 23 2014 07:11 Foolishness wrote:
sandroba is not a good lynch when Promethelax and HolyFlare are still alive. (Note that marv is mafia, sand is mafia, on likelihoods, not certainty. But sand is a bad lynch because both Prome and HolyFlare are more likely. That's...a lot of scum) On January 23 2014 07:46 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 07:41 gonzaw wrote:
There too fucking many coincidences going on. Sandro coming out of getting modkilled to get the 2nd guy with most votes and vote him. Prome coming out of nowhere, yet vote the only guy that would prevent his lynch.
Then Hapa coming out of nowhere and apparently voting Prome without having read the thread yet. Or there's a very simple explanation to what's going on here. I don't like the sandroba thing any more than you do I assure you. But he did his research. Sandroba's post on prome was super mega butt inapplicable and anyone who played in LoL or read it critically should know that. On January 23 2014 07:51 Foolishness wrote:
I don't even like the sandroba lynch lol On January 23 2014 07:52 Foolishness wrote:
Should just do the Promethelax lynch cause that's a lynch for mafia.
Sandroba is still iffy On January 23 2014 07:56 Foolishness wrote:
There's no way this sandroba lynch is good.
Also
"Back. Caught up and also read Prome. Fine with a prome lynch." - Austin Here, Foolishness implies that...I'm mafia? Or the lynch is bad? Or something. But it's weak. It's pure implication, and he doesn't CHALLENGE me on it. Austin, you said this, why aren't you voting prome? Blah blah blah. He's only halfway concerned. On January 23 2014 07:59 Foolishness wrote:
Well, there are some players who said they were okay with Promethelax but are joining the sandroba vote for no reason.
Sandroba isn't posting. Foolishness thinks this speaks volumes, thinks a sandroba that stays afk is troubling, but overall, when sandroba DOES EXACTLY WHAT SCUM SANDROBA TENDS TO DO, foolishness wants to lynch other people instead.
Foolishness never REALLY invests effort in pushing things off Sandroba. He tries to make me look bad by mentioning I was okay voting prome. He half-ass calls sandro's analysis of prome solid and well-researched. But he doesn't tell anyone "if you think sandro and prome are both scum, what do you think of sandroba voting prome?" which seems like a thing you might ask.
Yes, he has posted reasonable, rational stuff today. But in terms of "people who look pewpy for their interactions with/posts concerning sandroba," Foolishness is, imo, the worst off. His behavior around the lynch does not improve that. You CAN read the pre-lynch stuff as them being on opposite teams, because wouldn't Foolishness try HARDER to save a scumbuddy? Except things were really murky until a couple minutes before lynch. Everyone kept saying they were WILLING to lynch x and y and sandroba and chicken nuggets and whatnot, but nobody was really committed, so it was difficult for Foolishness, of either alignment, to determine how the lynch would come out.
THIS THOUGHT TURNED OUT WAY TOO LONG BUT HOLY BALLS DON'T MAGICALLY DETERMINE FOOLISHNESS IS SAFE. He looks the worst, to me, and probably to you, based on his D1 interactions with/read on Sandroba. For all the talk of VE not being around at lynch, not doing anything, etc, foolishness is around and doing something, which is mainly chiming in to say LYNCH PROME AND NOT SANDROBA EXCEPT I'M NOT GOING BALLS DEEP ON TRYING TO SWAP THIS LYNCH.
I was townie on him yesterday. I'm not sure on him right now. But I think anyone just reading his long posts about votes and whatnot is missing some other stuff. I promise I have more thoughts than "Don't sleep on foolishness" but this just turned long
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On January 24 2014 07:09 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 07:00 austinmcc wrote:On January 24 2014 06:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry austin, it's what I do sometimes.
I can't say there won't be more of it from me, but at the very least it'll be interspersed with 'better' stuff. VERY WELL, CITIZEN. YOU MAY BE ON YOUR WAY. I think a couple people were doing it, and it's just...there's a lot of it. Lots and lots and lots of vote talk, timing talk, and very little consideration for votes PLUS FILTERS. Who do you think is particularly guilty? Is anyone particularly guilty of it also scummy for it? Do you think it's made the thread unreadable or something? It hasn't made thread unreadable. But i THINK there are some good good posts coming from odd angles that...it drowned out. I was only halfway paying attention and it can go on the list of THINGS I THINK ARE IMPORTANT BUT RARELY FOLLOW THROUGH ON.
I will recheck if I'm alive tomorrow.
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On January 24 2014 07:16 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, following up on marv, austin.
Right now, I'm here:
VE scum
One of Toad/WOS scum.
If you say Toad is town, then WOS is scum? That'd be from my POV. From your POV, how do you view it? Do you view it the same, and thus now think WOS is scum?
If not...then kita? Or maybe you are torn between kita/WOS? Or something? If I say toad is town, then mafia is ... two not toads and not mes.
You are super duper duper unlikely, I think. I've been laughing this whole time because if this were around a year ago, everyone would be saying "GONZAW WAS SCUM IN LIAR GAME AND LOOKED TOWNIE AND POSTED A LOT AND HE'S DOING THAT HERE SO HE'S MAFIA AGAIN."
Out of the remainder, I want to actually talk with VE before I really come down on him. I think prome is less likely than yesterday, and he's currently not someone I'd lynch tomorrow. I think Foolishness is still decently likely but I need to think more about that. I need to reconsider Kita, but I haven't gotten anything very scummy off him. I wish I'd kept chatting with WoS yesterday, neither one of us really followed through, and I think BOTH of us should look a little scummy for that.
So right now, I'm wishy washy! It's N1. We lynched mafia D1. We have 48 hours to lynch. I'm just not super concerned with a list of suspects right now, as odd as that sounds, but I want to pick VE's brain and chat with him, want people not to sleep on Foolishness, and need to make good on looking back on some things I nag people about.
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On January 24 2014 07:40 gonzaw wrote:Well austin, if you put it that way, you do seem to make me feel guilty of my town read on Foo  Gotta admit I didn't reread his filter. But meh what do I care, night ends in a few minutes. If he's scum he just fucked himself. Don't want to believe scum Foo would play so poorly as scum, while at the same time playing so good (by making townie posts that make sense bla bla bla). Kind of the opposite of what I'd expect scum Foo to be, play good scum, while not playing good. Or something. Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 07:36 austinmcc wrote:
. I've been laughing this whole time because if this were around a year ago, everyone would be saying "GONZAW WAS SCUM IN LIAR GAME AND LOOKED TOWNIE AND POSTED A LOT AND HE'S DOING THAT HERE SO HE'S MAFIA AGAIN."
Ah...memories... I think there is good reason not to sleep on him. I just can't get over the way he called sandro town and the way he justified that ----> his play towards deadline. For someone who thinks BOTH prome and sandro are likely mafia, he's doing a lot of work while not doing a lot of work to shift the lynch onto prome and not sandro, and his ONLY response to sandro returning after a mystical journey in the AFK wilderness is to say that sandro had done his research (again, see my posts or see WoS's posts for why sandro's comparison was not spectacular ioo (ioos?)).
Yeah, the pre-lynch stuff is wonky, but we pulled off a wonky lynch. It was very unclear who was going to really get votes between him/prome/sandro, and he just kept chiming in with the same line about prome being better lynch than sandro, and the only other stuff he did was creepy things like imply i was maybe scummy for saying i was willing to lynch prome but lynching sandro, while entirely ignoring that most of my posts were "i'm fine lynching prome or sandro."
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On January 24 2014 07:46 Promethelax wrote:
I think terrible posts followed by good posts is a townie thing from foolish more than a scummy thing. No lie his early posting looked horrible and even worse with a Sand flip but he knows that and looks at the thread and figures he can push through on logic and big posts? I see a scum foolish just lurking himself to death there. It would be a depressing place to be as a scummer. It is one reason I like VE (okay, the only reason I like VE) he has been in the thread and actively talking with us all even if his discussion hasn't been all that productive I see him being more depressed if he is scum.
Not that that is a solid reason for a read but it is something I've been keeping in mind. I waited like a month to have this game start. Scum better not just get "depressed" and play poorly
Foolishness has two big posts since the lynch. They're entirely concerned with the timing of votes and whatnot. I still see this as a good place for mafia to hide and just get activity out of speculation. HOWEVER, Foolishness's posts are some of the least speculative of that bunch, he does go into WoS's filter and pull some things out, do a little analysis. But overall, he's very quick to just say that all sandro voters are town, give a list of 4-5 people that need looking out (which is, btw, basically everyone who didn't vote sandro). To me, the actually reads and posts from yesterday are more important than a bunch of speculation on votes and timing, ESPECIALLY when ALL the speculation comes from "you guys have to assume I'm town."
If you want, myself or someone else can type up an identical big post in the world where sandroba AND foolishness are town. We can fully explain what votes moved, why, etc. etc. And it'll be based just as much on someone who is unflipped being a particular alignment. Except our post would be bolstered by Foolishness's D1 play.
One question, and I'm still lazy so it's not like I can say I've done this, but do you find Foolishness going from terrible posts to good posts to be a town Foolishness trait? Or is that something that mafia Foolishness actually does when under pressure? I don't remember him becoming entirely absent when under suspicion, I'm pretty sure he USUALLY posts some semi-reasonable looking lists of reads, or at least reads reasonable enough that a lot of the thread goes "hey, that looks pretty good." Off the top of my head, he has a decently well-reasoned list post and some followup in Bureaucracy (he was scum), a less-well-reasoned list post and I think some other jazz in Parallel Worlds, and I don't like remembering that Champions Game because it was kinda painful to read.
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On January 24 2014 07:49 Promethelax wrote:
Just, okay, if Fool is scum and Sand is scum who is the third scum? He would have to have been pushing my lynch head over heels (or be HF) since the only other options were scum lynches.
There wasn't a player going ass to the wall crazy to get me lynched besides VE and if he was scum watching the scum lynch on foolish fall apart would he really afk and just hope the lynch shifts to me? This is the kind of thing that I'm halfway trying to curtail by playing thread police.
Who cares? If Foolishness is scum and Sand is scum WE CAUGHT TWO SCUM. The third scum is...whoever remains alive and has played the scummiest.
Could be VE, could be WoS, could be marv (he looks good to me right now, but he poked at foolishness about sandro yesterday and hasn't continued poking about something that i think is relatively relevant). Could be you but super unlikely.
It could be ANY of us. I guess I don't care about filling out a 3 man scumteam right now.
Like, my comments on Foolishness have NOTHING to do with who a third member might be. My comments on Foolishness are focused on specific things he did yesterday that make HIM look bad to me. I don't care about creating a team on them, I care that Foolishness took actions and made posts which I find scummy. The third scum is a matter for later.
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gg hapa.
I'm going to dinner in a sec, but my D2 wishlist currently reads:
(1) Get more discussion on Foolishness. Specifically about his D1, then about his play as a whole. I'd like to talk to Foolishness as well, but I will settle for discussion ABOUT him, from more people.
(2) Chat with VE. Attempt to keep people from just calling him scum for 60 hours.
(3) Chat with marv. About Foolishness/sandro and generally
(4) Chat with Kitaman, and get others to talk ABOUT kitaman. A couple posts have mentioned him looking a little worse from the sandro flip (i think?). He has posted some. But overall, just half-following and reading through thread, I don't have a strong sense of him doing stuff recently. That could be entirely wrong, but he's too under the radar for my liking, and I think his alignment and his filter make a good topic of discussion for today. Either we start pressuring him, or he's town and he gets active and gives some good posts, it's a win win to talk about kita more.
(5) Actually talk to WoS instead of the aborted chat we had yesterday.
(6) Other stuff?
I'm playing VERY thread cop this game. It looks like I'm going to continue that way. Sorry if it's annoying, within my head it's a helpful thing as long as I'm not just pooh poohing stuff and not coming up with other things to do or participating heavily myself.
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