• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:46
CET 12:46
KST 20:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview11Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)39
StarCraft 2
General
Rsl season 4 StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) KSL Week 85 OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open!
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Let's Get Creative–Video Gam…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2030 users

PYP: League of Legends Mafia - Page 197

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 195 196 197 198 199 423 Next
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7464 Posts
December 06 2013 06:47 GMT
#3921
*heads back to the shops*
lol, clueless in The Prism!
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 06:47 GMT
#3922
@Austin. Honestly I'm frustratingly mixed on MZ. Like I think you have a great point that he doesn't push his scumreads half as forcefully as he does his VE townread. Like that's you're best point. But I feel like I have a really good grasp on WoS (<3 you wubbybumpkins--except you know making my player Uzi is totally a bastard host move), so I can understand his faith in that read.

But there's a point in the game where on D1 I'm a huge topic of issue but he doesn't follow up on it. It's like the perfect time to push me as scum and push me pretty hard as he likely could completely get away with it. On the reverse side, there's this post
On December 04 2013 16:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
here's what I got out of geript:

never once does he properly analyze oats and is content to simply lean on his "gut read"

he constantly talks about both oats and jay but never really tries to get people to join him and instead simply tells people to vote them because his targets are guaranteed scum.

The biggest thing I get out of geript is a bunch of noise and posts without doing anything substantial. For instance, he has his main targets but he brings up others on the side and never follows up. He's in that twilight zone where you can't blame him for the bum mislynch but he was definitely involved.

Probably the biggest thing in geript's favor is calling out people like austin and coag, both of whom are low content lurkers. If he's scum he could be bussing his teammates but it's a point in his favor that he doesn't let them fall through the cracks. However the reason why this doesn't clear him is because he never follows up with any of this. It's easy enough to call out lurkers as scum but he never actually follows through which makes me think this was an effort to appear protown.

geript is frustratingly inconclusive for me. He's done things I feel are scummy (hence my gutread) but I couldn't put it into a coherent analysis. This is the problem I was running into earlier in the game when I was looking at geript and sadly bum's death hasn't really made it any easier. He could be scum but I'd rather look into bum's other suspects right now.

Which I really don't like. He comes to a similar-ish conclusion to Prome (who gave me a stronger townie lean), like I don't like the thought process like this coming out of a vet. As a counter point:
On December 04 2013 20:29 Promethelax wrote:
geript hard defends Rayn d0 and really puts his foot down about it. He takes a hard stance which I rather like. Its odd, everything I'm seeing seems to objectively point to scum but I don't find it convincing. There is something in how geript is thinking that seems silly but not scummy maybe? I can't explain it right. He is ringing all the scum bells but it feels like he is ringing them for the wrong reasons. He has all this ill founded bravado that I think would be hard for him to do as scum. He is very in your face and it seems townie.

I like geript's day one play, he is all around the place. Starts on jay but doesn't stick. Has gotten over his bad tunnel. HIts oats.
[/b]
People who are all over the place, to me, tend to read as town. Like it's very hard to bounce between reads as scum and continue to juggle that. This is a "tell" that I've seen be so true so often and, iirc, many "pros" tend to share.

Next this is going to seem really weird to bring up, but I seem to have skimmed some important stuff.
[insert Jay's post on VE]
Here's 3 near instantaneous reactions
On December 05 2013 02:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Jay where were posts like that one like...all game long?

On December 05 2013 02:17 Koshi wrote:
That post makes jay town in my book. Don't know if it makes VE more scum but delurk is delurky.

On December 05 2013 02:24 marvellosity wrote:
[i]I sat there and thought huh, that's interesting. Let's look in these spoilers. Oh yeah, VE did do that stuff jay said. He's actually gone and researched this. Hmm, this is an interesting perspective which gave some thought. *goes to move jay back from scummy to null in spreadsheet*. I wonder if it genuinely makes VE scummy or if it's just coincidence? Probably just coincidence for now, but it's interesting at any rate.

Like when I saw MZ and Marv's interaction and had to go back and reread Jay's post, my reaction was literally just like Koshi's. "wow that makes jay look towny."
MZ's reaction to Koshi seems really out of place and wrong. When good players read things completely differently that tends to be a warning flag for me.

Another thing that really bothers me is this:
On December 05 2013 01:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...you made kurumi get himself modkilled... have you ever seen a scum do that?

This seems like a really weird reaction to me. It's always been true that I've seen town get other town modkilled. Perhaps MZ's experience is different, but LIX is a good example of where Toadestern and somebody else ended up getting modkilled because other town brought up the rules and stuff and pushed it. In general, town tends to push other town to get modkilled and not the other way around so it seems really weird to me that this is his reaction.

In summary after looking and thinking more about his filter, I'd be down for a MZ lynch but not for most of the reasons you posted.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 06 2013 06:48 GMT
#3923
On December 06 2013 15:43 OdinOfPergo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 15:39 Chezinu wrote:
Did you just claim mafia?


How... the fuck..
is like...
a ...


....6
..
.
.....
... post rant on the...
abysmal...
..
.....
..
...
town..
..
..
....
...play... (Post break)
...

worthy..
...
..
..
.
(post break)

//
..
.
Of your freaking lynch?
Are you (*&*($^%?


[image loading]


Sorry had to do it.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
December 06 2013 06:49 GMT
#3924
Yo Odin bro, I drink some evenings as well.

Look at Chezinu' posts and interpret. Then laugh. This is why I got so much shit questioning Kush. It's expected. Take a breath and roll with the trolls.
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7464 Posts
December 06 2013 06:51 GMT
#3925
What are your thoughts about MZ not claiming to have taken damage?
lol, clueless in The Prism!
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 06:52 GMT
#3926
I actually really kinda like your townread on jay, not entirely for the reasons you posted but it reminds me of the nomination podcast where VE was talking about how one player (forget who) really flaunts his "#1 mislynch in the world" status way more as town than as scum. I'll have to reread jay to see if this is true but it's got me thinking moreso and that's plus points for not lynching you.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 06:53 GMT
#3927
On December 06 2013 15:48 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 15:43 OdinOfPergo wrote:
On December 06 2013 15:39 Chezinu wrote:
Did you just claim mafia?


How... the fuck..
is like...
a ...


....6
..
.
.....
... post rant on the...
abysmal...
..
.....
..
...
town..
..
..
....
...play... (Post break)
...

worthy..
...
..
..
.
(post break)

//
..
.
Of your freaking lynch?
Are you (*&*($^%?


[image loading]


Sorry had to do it.

IDK why, but this post makes me think ticklish is town
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 06:54 GMT
#3928
On December 06 2013 15:51 Chezinu wrote:
What are your thoughts about MZ not claiming to have taken damage?

I'm not seeing a real reason to lie about this, but I'm equally confused about that whole situation.
OdinOfPergo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States840 Posts
December 06 2013 06:54 GMT
#3929
Guys, that's not even me drunk posting, it only goes to show how many of you read my NMM L game.
My first long post in that game was a "drunk post"
those previous post by me are strait "I can't believe this is acceptable for a TL Mafia game."
Ik weet niet wie ik denk dat ik ben. Ik weet niet wie ik zogenaamd in gesprek met. je niet hier, niemand is. Ik ben hier niet, niets is.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 06:54 GMT
#3930
Really though I need to get to sleep. I'm going to park my vote on MZ because I'm townleaning on austin right now.
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7464 Posts
December 06 2013 06:55 GMT
#3931
On December 06 2013 15:54 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 15:51 Chezinu wrote:
What are your thoughts about MZ not claiming to have taken damage?

I'm not seeing a real reason to lie about this, but I'm equally confused about that whole situation.

It would provide town with great insight onto Mig's alignment.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
OdinOfPergo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States840 Posts
December 06 2013 06:55 GMT
#3932
Like, strait jaw dropping, holy mofuga, what the tarnig is wrong, bad post is my best example.
Ik weet niet wie ik denk dat ik ben. Ik weet niet wie ik zogenaamd in gesprek met. je niet hier, niemand is. Ik ben hier niet, niets is.
OdinOfPergo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States840 Posts
December 06 2013 06:57 GMT
#3933
My main argument tonight is that even when I have period as town.... is that I'm trying to to the best I can as such. I don't give a franks on how you regard me for it.
Ik weet niet wie ik denk dat ik ben. Ik weet niet wie ik zogenaamd in gesprek met. je niet hier, niemand is. Ik ben hier niet, niets is.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 07:02 GMT
#3934
Chez I'll get back to you in the afternoon when I have time to actually read lots of stuff. I want to read Onegu and his case again. And ticklish. LIke i really like that post of his, but it's a weird delurk then lurk.
OdinOfPergo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States840 Posts
December 06 2013 07:04 GMT
#3935
orrrr... geript... I'm here... right now.... considering Oengu's... erm... like... erm only case... is umm.... against me.... you could filter me and him and ask me about it?
Ik weet niet wie ik denk dat ik ben. Ik weet niet wie ik zogenaamd in gesprek met. je niet hier, niemand is. Ik ben hier niet, niets is.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 06 2013 07:07 GMT
#3936
I feel okay about M_Z, though he seems to have taken the foot off the gas for the last day or so. Would appreciate some more of his input.

Right now I'm looking at all the J players-- jcarl, jonnylaw, jaybrunage. I'm definitely mixing them up a bit as I filter, but I'm sure at least one of them is scum.

I still like guitar's case on soniv (jcarlsoniv, w/e). Meta as it is, I didn't really like Soniv's response to it about "you can't read me etc.". I dunno why this switch happened though.

+ Show Spoiler +
On December 05 2013 09:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 09:28 geript wrote:
Also, now that Warwick is out. I think it's a good time for everyone to claim their player and champion.

I'm Uzi and I'm playing twitch.


yeaaaaaah that's not happening

On December 06 2013 01:57 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 01:53 gtrsrs wrote:
On December 06 2013 00:02 jcarlsoniv wrote:
If you clicked on the lantern, then you should have been protected from anything targeting you. If you didn't click the lantern, then you didn't get protected.

I checked, you can still use your ability if you clicked the lantern.



you're claiming thresh, then?


I am. And as much as I still disagree with you speculating on possible roles, I had to chuckle to myself when you guessed right for Thresh.



Next, JohnnyLaw who accused half the thread (okay, Bum, LSB, moc and others) of bad play and seems to want to also lynch said half of the thread and talking about the power of democracy and one man one vote.

+ Show Spoiler +
On December 06 2013 12:31 JonnyLaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 12:21 Mocsta wrote:
On December 06 2013 12:14 JonnyLaw wrote:
I've talked about Kush all that I want to. Do you even read my filter?

I called out Kush, got shit on by a couple people because that's how he plays. I didn't realize people intentionally play like shit and post one liners that don't help town at all. That was my original complaint about rayn. Now he gets praised for having the largest filter in the game.

LSB is a good lynch because he contributes nothing to the game. I will vote you as well just like I said. You're wagoning whatever is easy.
JonnyLaw,
I'm going to choose my words carefully, after all there is no need to convince scum that they are scum.

(1) You are running a discredit campaign on me by twisting easy to prove facts. This *is* scummy

(2) How are you an easy bandwagon, when experienced players like Sandroba/Rayn don't agree with the strength of my read.
This is more discredit attempts

(3) If you did call me scum, you went about it in the most wishy-washy softly-spoken way possible, and that *is* scummy too.

All you say is you *could* lynch me.
Who are you *GOING* to lynch.


First of all who's getting lynched is not my call. I have a vote. You think my vote is the most influential in the game? I don't. I got shit on d1 for thinking I know something about tl mafia.

As I said I'll happily lynch you. You pegged me scum, jumped to bum when convenient then came back at me once bum was town and prome joined the game. I said bum might be town because his post saying im town makes no sense if he's scum. He could ride the LSB bandwagon till the end. You call me scum for that logic then post the same logic for why I am scum. You can't have it both ways.


Jay aka lynchbait...

I read somewhere about the mentality of finding scum vs lynching someone as townie, and this is iffy. Also a big swing in attitude, though emotions are running fast.

+ Show Spoiler +
On December 05 2013 14:14 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 14:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 05 2013 13:58 Rean wrote:
@Rayn, I "shot" (50 KP is barely worthy of that term when people have over fifteen times the hp) Austinmcc for his filter, not my question. His filter is full of reads but at no point did I get the impression that he's actually trying to get people lynched rather than just giving out reads on anything he can find.

Yes and your filter lacks even that.
Why didn't you shoot yourself? By your definition you are 1000x scummier than austin.
Why didn't you shoot Coag?

Also you have yet to give the scumreads. You have been here. You have been reading. I am expecting at least 3 scumreads with reasoning. Other people than lurkers.

Hmm I was gonna defend Rean. But I took a quick gander at his filter and I understand why your going after him.

While I liked his early posts his posts have continued to stay contentless.

Rean DO SOMETHING. Look thru some filters make a case. Your dead weight for town atm.


On December 05 2013 14:28 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 14:17 Rean wrote:
On December 05 2013 14:14 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 05 2013 14:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 05 2013 13:58 Rean wrote:
@Rayn, I "shot" (50 KP is barely worthy of that term when people have over fifteen times the hp) Austinmcc for his filter, not my question. His filter is full of reads but at no point did I get the impression that he's actually trying to get people lynched rather than just giving out reads on anything he can find.

Yes and your filter lacks even that.
Why didn't you shoot yourself? By your definition you are 1000x scummier than austin.
Why didn't you shoot Coag?

Also you have yet to give the scumreads. You have been here. You have been reading. I am expecting at least 3 scumreads with reasoning. Other people than lurkers.

Hmm I was gonna defend Rean. But I took a quick gander at his filter and I understand why your going after him.

While I liked his early posts his posts have continued to stay contentless.

Rean DO SOMETHING. Look thru some filters make a case. Your dead weight for town atm.


How's that grass tasting today?

Are you kidding? Your not even going to try to play this game to the best of your ability. You gonna make a dumb sheep joke that's not even relevant.

I was planning to defend you because I thought your Doublelift impersonations were genuine. In a post an hour ago or so I told Rayn that you were town and to lay off you. But you obvious need the pressure. While you may be town. You have contributed close to nothing.

Rayn has everyone right to be pressuring you.

Hows this for sheep

##Vote Rean

Oh and by the way the grass tastes like shit or maybe that's just your posting.



Aaaaaand I want M_Z in particular to respond to what rayn would endearingly call my half-assed analysis. (I tryin' okay?)
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Mid or Feed
Profile Joined November 2013
Korea (South)250 Posts
December 06 2013 07:08 GMT
#3937
Completely (mostly) unrelated but I just re-stumbled on some nostalgia.
Enjoy.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=316408



Also I totes just carried the shit out of VE in LoL. Carry on.
Me mid or AFK nubs nubs nubs
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 06 2013 07:09 GMT
#3938
On December 06 2013 16:02 geript wrote:
Chez I'll get back to you in the afternoon when I have time to actually read lots of stuff. I want to read Onegu and his case again. And ticklish. LIke i really like that post of his, but it's a weird delurk then lurk.


My activity is spotty, but I'm definitely posting more casually and frequently as the game goes on and I get more comfortable. I'm also becoming slightly more invested with every post I make.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 07:10 GMT
#3939
On December 06 2013 16:04 OdinOfPergo wrote:
orrrr... geript... I'm here... right now.... considering Oengu's... erm... like... erm only case... is umm.... against me.... you could filter me and him and ask me about it?

It's 2am here and I have 2 tests tomorrow at 9 and 12. Not gonna happen yet. I will get to it. Just try to filter and analyze. Yes even though copy machine is drunk.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
December 06 2013 07:11 GMT
#3940
On December 06 2013 16:09 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 16:02 geript wrote:
Chez I'll get back to you in the afternoon when I have time to actually read lots of stuff. I want to read Onegu and his case again. And ticklish. LIke i really like that post of his, but it's a weird delurk then lurk.


My activity is spotty, but I'm definitely posting more casually and frequently as the game goes on and I get more comfortable. I'm also becoming slightly more invested with every post I make.

Post more then
Prev 1 195 196 197 198 199 423 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech141
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5639
Calm 4937
Rain 4160
Sea 2804
Bisu 1643
Horang2 1000
Flash 971
Jaedong 719
actioN 533
Stork 376
[ Show more ]
Shuttle 364
BeSt 346
Larva 292
Mini 206
Light 165
Soma 148
ggaemo 137
Zeus 129
Hyun 123
Hyuk 122
Snow 107
firebathero 92
hero 81
Mind 71
Pusan 59
ToSsGirL 38
Killer 38
Sea.KH 38
Barracks 35
yabsab 30
Sharp 28
JYJ 27
scan(afreeca) 23
Hm[arnc] 22
sorry 21
Movie 20
GoRush 19
Yoon 18
zelot 16
HiyA 15
Noble 13
soO 11
Shinee 10
Shine 10
ivOry 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 6
Dota 2
singsing1144
XcaliburYe136
febbydoto41
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1096
zeus890
olofmeister273
allub264
edward254
Other Games
B2W.Neo913
Pyrionflax250
crisheroes245
Sick143
QueenE65
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 55
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV309
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 14m
Wardi Open
1d
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-01
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.