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On November 25 2013 07:20 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
While I think it is a great case Onegu (and your recent activity has earned my unvote), I'm worried that killing Mocsta will put the thread to a screeching halt like it has been for most of D2. Look how inactive the thread has been with Mocsta's limited time to play this weekend.
In my opinion, Mocsta is one of those players who will either:
a)get killed in the first 2-3 nights
or
b)be lynched due to his behavior
A town Mocsta is a really good asset for town. Scum will be looking to nightkill him ASAP and if they don't do that, then there is a good chance he is one of them.
I'm not disagreeing with you because of my read on your or your points in the case- I just disagree with the principle of lynching Mocsta right now.
Is there anyone outside of Mocsta/Bereft you would be ok with lynching? Mocsta already thinks I'm scum. I'm totes ready to OMGUS but I want to try and see why first. Faugh. I went from harrowing to potentially harrowing. Let's check this out...
Onegu, enlighten me.
Did I think Rean was scum at this time? I wrote a lot of spiel on JJD last night and even voted him. So I find this comment out of place as an intro.
Thoughts?
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Fark.
Look my vote isn't needed ##Unvote
##Vote: Alakaslam
Sorry for the itching fingers
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Thoughts.
JJD has some aspects that are really townie
and then is getting pulled up as scum for not being present - which is not purely scum indicative.
I almost feel this is a repeat of the rayn lynch (policy lynching bad play).. the difference is that raynw as actively shitting up the thread vs JJD.
I can't do it.. congrats if he flips scum; but I can't do it.
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On November 25 2013 11:44 Onegu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 07:20 Alakaslam wrote:On November 25 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
While I think it is a great case Onegu (and your recent activity has earned my unvote), I'm worried that killing Mocsta will put the thread to a screeching halt like it has been for most of D2. Look how inactive the thread has been with Mocsta's limited time to play this weekend.
In my opinion, Mocsta is one of those players who will either:
a)get killed in the first 2-3 nights
or
b)be lynched due to his behavior
A town Mocsta is a really good asset for town. Scum will be looking to nightkill him ASAP and if they don't do that, then there is a good chance he is one of them.
I'm not disagreeing with you because of my read on your or your points in the case- I just disagree with the principle of lynching Mocsta right now.
Is there anyone outside of Mocsta/Bereft you would be ok with lynching? Mocsta already thinks I'm scum. I'm totes ready to OMGUS but I want to try and see why first. Faugh. I went from harrowing to potentially harrowing. Let's check this out... Onegu, enlighten me. Did I think Rean was scum at this time? I wrote a lot of spiel on JJD last night and even voted him. So I find this comment out of place as an intro. Thoughts? On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
scibs.
I'm taking a dump but just wanted to let you know we are both cb'd. at least I admitted I had no time to filter dive you and raised points from recollection. whereas you just ignore what I write outright.
I decided to prioritise vorazon for good reason. its in my posy.. and guess what.
since then coraxon stepped it up and started producing the goods.
corazon like others, I would like yo see onehu case on me before laying down a vote. a lot of what you write seems damning though with the contradictions etc.
I'm feeling a jjd vote. his timeluy felurk only when voted is not resonating well with me.
I was expecting him to give impetus today.
I think aqua is town, nothing to do with his read on me. I was thinking about this before.., hes still posting and trying to solve the game.
I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.
jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote
##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks
aside from the tunnel on cotrazon I can't remember what he has done,
I'm not even sure who his scum reads are.
/arse wiped
I gotta go, be back in say 8hrs You mean here where you vote JJD, but also say rean is a good lynch? Yeah I would say slam is right. How can you not keep your reads straight? I didnt vote him; you get too fixated on the phrase, and not enough on the intent.
I can say all 11 people are scummy; fact is, I have one vote. Thats the action that *does* matter.
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On November 25 2013 08:35 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:28 Holyflare wrote:On November 25 2013 08:24 Alakaslam wrote:
Ok, just reading from the vote post, I can see who I like and who I don't particularly care for. But could someone help me here;
Is jar jar drinks scummier than Mocsta or vice versa? Why? Should these wagons exist? Why or why not? I haven't got the full time period until lynch to be here and I kind of owe the first /in Mocsta is scum, I don't know why cora is defending him so hard. Activity will pick up, it's the weekend, people are busy/have lives but he isn't accepting it and is just attacking people that deface him or defending mocsta for no good reason. He's not saying WHY mocsta is very towny or systematically going through people's cases to acknowledge their points and say "oh here's a good point on why he is town", he's waiting for the person in question to return so he isn't held responsible if he makes a mistake defending his team mate. I'm pretty certain cora and mocsta are scum together. I will make cases soon™. Ah, jeez man. Maybe Cora is "defending him so hard" because he doesn't agree? It seems Aqua holds the same opinion! You look like CONF BIAS embodied to me sometimes. But that could be because I'm fighting you tooth and claw elsewhere until recently discovering that was a strawman so I need to make sure there is no other such flaw here that I see, but thanks for your input... Many people aren't here it seems, that is a very useful tidbit. Probably not what you meant to convince me of but I rather not be convinced against my will -_- I guess rean was just gone longer?
I like this post.. Specifically the reference to Holyflare.
Its out of game context though.
##Unvote
##Vote: Chezinu Guy has disappeared now that a wagon is on JarJarDrinks
Chez can be useful in his own way and has decided to jsut troll.
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I treated it differently because of the timestamps. I checked my filter specifically for what I said around that time.
Anyways; he reads as if he is having fun/enjoying himself & i like the HF reference. So hes off my books for the time being.
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Onegu's followup with me is good. Hes calling out good stuff which is making me feel nervous -- I really think he is town guys.
More than a feeling now.
I like a HF (lone) / chez (jampi) / <xxx> team
By PoE, kinda left with JJD as lowest ranking of twon reads?
kk
##Unvote
##Vote: JJD
Im not confident on this though..
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On November 25 2013 11:54 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:46 Mocsta wrote:On November 25 2013 11:44 Onegu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 07:20 Alakaslam wrote:On November 25 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
While I think it is a great case Onegu (and your recent activity has earned my unvote), I'm worried that killing Mocsta will put the thread to a screeching halt like it has been for most of D2. Look how inactive the thread has been with Mocsta's limited time to play this weekend.
In my opinion, Mocsta is one of those players who will either:
a)get killed in the first 2-3 nights
or
b)be lynched due to his behavior
A town Mocsta is a really good asset for town. Scum will be looking to nightkill him ASAP and if they don't do that, then there is a good chance he is one of them.
I'm not disagreeing with you because of my read on your or your points in the case- I just disagree with the principle of lynching Mocsta right now.
Is there anyone outside of Mocsta/Bereft you would be ok with lynching? Mocsta already thinks I'm scum. I'm totes ready to OMGUS but I want to try and see why first. Faugh. I went from harrowing to potentially harrowing. Let's check this out... Onegu, enlighten me. Did I think Rean was scum at this time? I wrote a lot of spiel on JJD last night and even voted him. So I find this comment out of place as an intro. Thoughts? On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
scibs.
I'm taking a dump but just wanted to let you know we are both cb'd. at least I admitted I had no time to filter dive you and raised points from recollection. whereas you just ignore what I write outright.
I decided to prioritise vorazon for good reason. its in my posy.. and guess what.
since then coraxon stepped it up and started producing the goods.
corazon like others, I would like yo see onehu case on me before laying down a vote. a lot of what you write seems damning though with the contradictions etc.
I'm feeling a jjd vote. his timeluy felurk only when voted is not resonating well with me.
I was expecting him to give impetus today.
I think aqua is town, nothing to do with his read on me. I was thinking about this before.., hes still posting and trying to solve the game.
I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.
jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote
##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks
aside from the tunnel on cotrazon I can't remember what he has done,
I'm not even sure who his scum reads are.
/arse wiped
I gotta go, be back in say 8hrs You mean here where you vote JJD, but also say rean is a good lynch? Yeah I would say slam is right. How can you not keep your reads straight? I didnt vote him; you get too fixated on the phrase, and not enough on the intent. I can say all 11 people are scummy; fact is, I have one vote. Thats the action that *does* matter. Slam said you thought he was scum, slam was right, are only the people you vote people you consider scum? My vote is usually indicative of who my strongest read is.
Of course I use it to pressure as well.
When I call people scummy loosely, it will typically infer I am suspicious. Which indicates some sort of lean depending on how I feel at the time. I rarely have hard thoughts either.
The biggest differentiator between my town play and scum play is my willingness to consider options (or lack of as scum)
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KK, onegu, get it off your chest. Call me scum for flip flopping my position on JJD.
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Corazon you said you were scum in titanic.
Were you jacksparrow?
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What do you think of the backpedals from Thrawn and myself?
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@Alakaslam
Are you trying to change your typing style this game as well?
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Yes, I know I'm playing like crap for the past 72 hrs.
OK, you are biased against Onegu the other way; maybe what I am interpreting and positive signs are actually null.
What do you make of Onegu followups with me? I mean, of course either alignment will follow up a case; but he actually almost seems too excited to provide "evidence" to support his thoughts - to be faking it.
As in, hes not harping on the same point and banging the same drum. Hes readjusting his position as I readjust mine.
I just find in general to be a tell more applicable to town, as scum usually just want to discredit so are happy the point is being discussed in the first place.
Thoughts?
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Corazon, I think Onegu is town.
After a filter dive this post *really* sticks out to me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=38#756
Below are highlights to re enforce my point:
On November 22 2013 04:33 Onegu wrote:
Rean
-When responding to the wishy washy post he made being called out gives another wishy washy post saying Im very scummy but I could just be stupid, then says I am a distraction.
-Says if Aqua flips town Im a good lynch the next day. How are me and Aqua connected how am I not a good lynch reguardless of aquas flip
JarJarDrinks
-Agree with almost all of his thoughts, we think almost the same things
-Defends me to sciberia
Rayn
-Calls out posts not needed to be called out like aqua not voteing his top scum read
-Rayn calling me scum but not looking at past mini games, his meta reads on me are so bad
-Doesnt look like he believes his case on aqua, harping the same point over and over when that point isnt scummy --> Oriignally Onegu "felt" Rayn was scummy, this is most likely why
-The post where rayn calls out aqua for his spicydinosaur post was really good --> This is the turning point where he considers Rayn town, and then changes his perspective on people that still think Rayn is scummy
-Then he somewhat defemds me, but uses correct meta
-Unless is trying to do what I did in WC as scum which I dont see he really is town
-Rayn saying those are scumclaims, wrong, but from a town rayn
Mocsta
-Randomly flips his read on me but its for a BS reason as the reason he gives I am perfectly capable of doing as scum
-Not sure how he thinks my atk on marv could be different if I was scum this game and atkd him
-Dont like his atk on rayn.
Sciberia
-Makes a case on me when everyone elae was calling me scummy but not doing anything about it \townie
-His defense of aquas spicydino post looks bad
-His tunnel on me still looks good though
-Calls out Reans wishy washy post on me being scummy but not likeing my wagon\ town poimts
-Continues to call me scum even though thread thoughts habe somewhat changed and everything going on around him\ townie
-His case on mocsta is ok but not greadt
These "highlights" mainly relate to happenings around Onegu. His filter also indicates he originally had a scum gutfeel on rayn and then suddenly changed his mind. I believe the development is within this list post.
The importance is how he gives credit to people treating him as a suspect/town; its very self-centered/focus approach which I find to be extremely indicative of a townie mindset.
I know scum are always looking for who supports them, and who doesn't; but they typically evaluate all information (as they have the knowledge advantage). Whereas, this is written in a selfish/C.B. manner that I thinks aligns with town (i.e. blinkers are on)
Its obvious he is clearly evaluating his thread presence and monitoring how people respond to him based on thread presence (e.g sciberbia). Again, scum monitor this too; but I don't think they write about how every single person treats them.
Of note as well JJD "thinks almost the same things... <as I do>"
Look how he takes offense to Rean thinking Onegu should be flipped if Aqua is town.
If Onegu was scum, I would expect a discredit here instead of observation. *I find this to be very townie too*
Whether my interpretations align with Onegu doesnt matter (ultimately we are different people that think differently)
What is essential, is that how he is structuring his thoughts is similar to me -- and I know I am town and also treating the game in that type of self-centered way.
Corazon, I appreciate the effort that went into that case; however, I think in this instance you are incorrect.
If Onegu is scum I will take back all I have said about being useless; because after looking throught he above I just can't swallow him being scum.
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On November 23 2013 18:04 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 17:30 Onegu wrote:On November 23 2013 17:18 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game? Why is this relevant? My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer: (A) you won't believe me; (B) you will still think I am scummy. Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch. You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution. I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles. I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game. In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town. I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch. Since when is makeing a case on someone I find scummy to be a waste if I am town, I fully expect scum to push my lynch today. Then when I flip my case wont be wasted ie people see Im town and look at my scum reads, and since we will have two town lynched and no nk and those two town have the same reads then the rest of the town should pay attention to that. Also Ill look for it in your filter but if I dont find why you say this game is differnt Ill be very disapoint you didnt answer my question because I will a) find it scummy or b) not believe you, because if its legit, no your prolly right im fairly hard tunneled on you, but maybe some other people that would believe you and find my question valid. You are hard tunneled, because I answered your question in my reply. I was stating that the same response in is my filter. You said scum will be pushing you this cycle.As far as I know, the only person with an agenda to come after you *solely* is Sciberbia. Do you have a updated opinion on Scibs? I actually believe you : / need to think if that is something you would say as scum though.
This post makes me feel *REALLY* good about Bereft.
Following from this discussion:
On November 24 2013 13:12 Bereft wrote:*confident, not confidant i'm not saying this is damning, but this is quite interesting... mocsta to onegu: Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 17:30 Onegu wrote:On November 23 2013 17:18 Mocsta wrote:On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game? Why is this relevant? My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer: (A) you won't believe me; (B) you will still think I am scummy. Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch. You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution. I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles. I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game. In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town. I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch. Since when is makeing a case on someone I find scummy to be a waste if I am town, I fully expect scum to push my lynch today. Then when I flip my case wont be wasted ie people see Im town and look at my scum reads, and since we will have two town lynched and no nk and those two town have the same reads then the rest of the town should pay attention to that. Also Ill look for it in your filter but if I dont find why you say this game is differnt Ill be very disapoint you didnt answer my question because I will a) find it scummy or b) not believe you, because if its legit, no your prolly right im fairly hard tunneled on you, but maybe some other people that would believe you and find my question valid. You are hard tunneled, because I answered your question in my reply. I was stating that the same response in is my filter. You said scum will be pushing you this cycle.As far as I know, the only person with an agenda to come after you *solely* is Sciberbia. Do you have a updated opinion on Scibs? mocsta to artanis in marv's game: Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 09:53 Mocsta wrote:
Running behind schedule, works a bitch today and Im only up to p124.
Things I want to say before deadline.
(1) Artanis: You are tunneled.
Your issues with me are because I do not play the game the same way you choose to.
That is not an indicator of scum. Everyone that has played with me many times realises this is how I play town.
Further, all your reads on other players hinge upon their thought process on me. You should know association reads are terribad.
You are obsessed beyond reason.
Unfortunately, the way you walk people through your mindset makes me lean town.
You need to drop this; or if you can't, fine -- Accept there are other players in the game that *must* be scum and look there.
Look reading filters is clearly not-alignment indicative. Some ppl just love to do it.
But, that Bereft was reading the filter in consideration of this back/forth with Onegu is pretty surprising if scum.
To me it indicates that I said something that triggered Bereft to think I am scummy enough to warrant a filter dive in a previous game. Hence the fixation on that phrasing. To me this is *very townie*
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Corazon
You are correct.
I'm completely 50/50 on holy. He loves to play protown scum, whereas here he is really brazen. Unless he's trying to actively adjust his meta I'm. It sure why he would play this was as scum -- even with time restraints. Plus self confirming so I'm. It trying to put time into him.
I'm reading scibs with a fine tooth now. I can't help feel his early game was to shit the thread. It's been a consistent feeling of mine all game for each reread. Ohh well more to go.
How does what I write about onegu influence your scum read?
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Scibs
Is definitely in my good books.
I realise now that my issues with him have been frequency of posting; however, when his thoughts are read as a sequence (i.e. filter) its damn consistent.
Asks good questions overall and had a really townie approach to dealing with the rayn situation.
I know we discussed scum might want Rayn saved, but scibs seemed pretty genuine in his efforts to push Onegu/Rean as a counter. If hes faking trying to solve the game, hes doing a good job.
Q for you Scibs.
My interpretation of that list post from Onegu. Do you think that is flawed logic.
I have to admit, reading your cases on Onegu made me doubt my read -- which is concerning to me.
+ the whole act of sole tunnel on me is reminding me of how i played scum in personality 2 (where I tunneled Corazon into infinity and let the thread believe i was just that C.B.)
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EPT
