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Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 00:58 GMT

#882

On November 22 2013 09:52 sciberbia wrote:
Also I think Cora is pretty scummy. Reading his filter the feeling I get is that he KNOWS rayn is not scum,but acts as though his "hand was forced" into voting him even though there's plenty of time into the lynch and there are better candidates. He just says things like "rayn's behavior is not acceptable". And the actual scummy points he does raise against rayn are total BS.

Show nested quote +

This is trying to apply a scumtell to a situation where it doesn't apply at all. If you have 8 votes on you then maybe martyrying is a scumtell, but rayn hardly had any pressure on him when he started trampling through the thread and voting himself. Read rayn's filter from the last 12 hours and tell me he has been trying to "gain town cred". He has been doing the complete opposite by pissing everybody off. Cora is reallly reaching hard here to justify his vote.

I'd be happy with a Cora lynch if anybody prefers him to Onegu.

I dont feel confident on Corazon and i treat this post as null (it did stick out for me)

Corazon story in the thread is that he disagreed with a rayn lynch.
It kinda makes sense for him to do the above to mentality justify the decision to himself (if town)

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:02 GMT

#892

On November 22 2013 10:00 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

still waiting on a productive post from you

Yeah, I would seriously consider voting this slot right here right now.

Hes buying time; most replacements in his situation vote the common bandwagon and then read the thread.

Hes trying to be all "pro scum-hunter" i can read the 50 page thread and shove it to you guys.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:33 GMT

#936

Cross-Reference of Onegu reads post on Bereft

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=38#756

Calls out mocsta for troll posts, first to do so.

On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

Onegu does not explain why this is relevant as an observation. The assumption is that he is confirmation biasd on me, thus treats this a town tell (but thats a guess obviously)

Rean vote is ok, reasons arent great, better reasons other people are voteing him but meh

On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add:

On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote:
Forgot this:

Show nested quote +

I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments.

i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed.

if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read.

##Vote: Rean

Bereft states "one more thing to ad" - hence clearly he is in agreement with the reasons others have already proposed. He is merely adding his own extra layer of topping to the cake. I don't get how Onegu interprets this as "other people have better reasons" to justify this as a dot point. I get that Onegu has a scum read on Rean (as per the reads post) however, this dot point doesnt explain whether the motive of Bereft is to cheaply "+1" or what?

Makes a unreadable post with one of his scum reads then votes him after.

On November 21 2013 12:43 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

guys, sorry i'm still catching up on the thread (i know you hardxcore mafia players will laugh at this - "it's only 25 pages!" but here are my reasons for my scum lean on the following players:
Cora+ Show Spoiler +

i'm going to skip going over the whole early shaky scum read on scib since that's already been covered and addressed pretty thoroughly. things that stood out to me:

On November 20 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote:

Show nested quote +

Where in that post do I say he is claiming mason? I was making a comment on the possibility of there being a mason after thrawn's post. If it had said in the OP "no masons in this game", then wouldn't it be suspicious? You're grasping at straws here bro.

The only thing I've seen from the early game is that you are looking pretty scummy right now.

i think this post is really bad. i find it pretty odd that he finds it necessary to point out that scib is "piggy backing" on him and proceeds to waste an exchange with scib on whether they were in fact clarifying the same thing with thrawn. i find it hard to find a reason why townies would have this exchange or even care. who cares? he doesn't just mention this once. he argues the point SEVERAL times and is still bringing it up ages later (along with scib's bullshit page 1 "read") as the basis for his scum read:

On November 21 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
This is a stupid read and smells of fake scum-hunting:

Show nested quote +

This is the post where he basically copies me and then denies it:

Show nested quote +

This is where he denies copying me and he twists my words to make it look like I already assumed they were masons:

Show nested quote +

Rean+ Show Spoiler +

wastes his first few posts just agreeing or clarifying things, and he's not even being useful in his clarifications. what i really don't like is that when i specifically call him out to pick his brain, he doesn't even give me *ANY* interpretation of what he thinks of the player. it's totally ambiguous. then, when Aqua calls him out, his answer is totally wishy washy and shady -- gives a town-read but 100% hedges it:

On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:

Show nested quote +

i also find the interactions between cora and rean pretty weird and incongruous. even something small like cora calling rean out for asking for town reads i find a pretty weird point to common on -- the exchange is pointless as he doesn't draw any conclusion from it and just seems to be critiquing rean's play.

what i also find noteworthy is that:
(A) rean first FOS's sciberia when sciberia asks for his top scum read.
(B) rean gives a soft defense of cora to moc
(C) but then suddenly cora becomes a scum read and he says:

Show nested quote +

BUT THEN!! after aqua votes for him, IN THE VERY NEXT POST:

Show nested quote +

On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:

On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:

On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...

On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?

To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.

How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.

. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as

On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.

This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim

i spent 10 mins trying to fix those quotes in the rean spoiler. i give up, sorry guys. going through aqua and onegu's filters now.

I'm surprised the order of the dot points went like this because I would have expected a filter dive of Bereft to pull up this point when it was read - as the reasonings are quite weak. Again, Onegu doesn't dive into any motive behind this. Its just calling out poor play. Weak beans all up.
Lastly, its also ironic onegu has an issue with poorly formatted cases/votes given his penchant for formating when he originally cased me.

Also doesnt read my post clearly thinking its a cora case, even though he claims to have read my filter.

On November 21 2013 13:32 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 13:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
Bereft, I would like to know why you don't think we should lynch Onegu. I was really puzzled when you threw that read out (as were others) and I just want to know why you see Onegu in a good light. When you said you thought he was town I got this feeling that we weren't reading the same game.

i like that he came into the thread with a bunch of off the cuff reads -- to me this reads as careless, unstructured, bold.

On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post.

Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change.

Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy.

Anyway rean is really scumm though.

Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though.

if he's scum, this is not at all a "safe" post to bust into the thread with.

i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out. i really want to believe moc is town, but i keep seeing small red flags embedded in his posts. he's the first person to really do this, and if scum, i think this is also pretty bold because mocsta's obviously an aggressive player. i was accused of being scum and attempting to disrupt a town circle for telling mocsta to explain himself.

he gives me a very very slight town lean (exact phrasing "starting to look better") at a time when it's totally unnecessary to do so, considering everyone else would most likely have slotted me into the "lurker, null, need to hear more from" category if prodded.

admittedly his last post is a jumbled mess and i have no idea what he's saying with this:

Im going to go over your reads here and just ask you how you came to these because alot were null to me or the exact opposite of what you wrote so lets go.

1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...

2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.

3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.

4 this is fine

5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?

6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.

7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.

8 again not a scumslip

9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.

10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?

12 meh ok

12b also fine

13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?

14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...

15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.

16 again why post a completely null post?

17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town

18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.

19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on

20 admit to being tunneled

21 this is fine

22 tunneled

23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.

24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd.

but i do think it's a very strong point in his favor that his posts are coming off as being written with a lack of care as to how they'd be perceived.

I assume this is the post in question.
The conclusion doesn't make sense considering Bereft stated "i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out". In fact, Bereft calls Onegu town here.

If memory serves me right, it was Corazon who thought Onegu was attacking him with the case on me.

Ironically, the point Onegu raises here is actually not applicable to Bereft, but completely applicable to Onegu.

His reads are ok.

On November 21 2013 13:47 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

also rayn, i assume your sentence was a typo -- you're saying i [i]should be filtering my null reads, correct?

i don't see a situation where a majority of the people here would prefer to lynch lonemeow or mocsta over rean, cora, or aqua. do you disagree? if i find 3 people scummy, should i not be analyzing the one i would most prefer to lynch?

also FWIW i have looked at aqua's filter and my gut read has been dampened somewhat. right now i'm still thinking about it, but if you want me to bang out some half baked thoughts to "meet expectations" i will be happy to accommodate.

On November 21 2013 07:43 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

hey guys, I'm at work right now, but I'll be home in about 4 hours. have only skimmed the last few pages from my phone, but currently this is where I'm at:

town lean on: thrawn, scib, dude whose name starts with jamp or something, onegu, rayn
null on: mocsta, JJD, lone meow
leaning scum on: rean, cora, aqua

unclear to me why onegu is obv scum/2nd day lynch according to moc. I'll take a closer look at his filter tonight along with my null to scum reads and update who I'm comfortable lynching day 1.

Between the two I assume this is reference to quote 1 via sequence of events.

Read are OK = Rean, Cora, Aqua

In onegu list post: Rean = scummy
Cora = scummish but I cannot shake the feeling he is town
Aqua = Implies town

So, how are these good reads? Or using Onegu wording, how are these "OK reads".

 thoughts on why rayn is scum but dont agree. Also rayn useing bullshit alot isnt alignment indicative for him

On November 21 2013 23:34 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

rayn, you used "bullshit" five times in your last post on me. FIVE. your reentry into the thread sounds very angry. why? is it because you've climbed higher on other people's scum lynch? a bit rich coming from you, who called me "overly defensive" for being incredulous and annoyed at you saying "lynch bereft, fucking scummy - peace!" or is it because you are very unhappy with today's lynch, so instead you're preferring to throw away your vote on a [i]bullshit case?

Calls this out
over some of the other interplay between Rayn/Bereft.
I dont get it; again, what motive is onegu associating this with?

Its completely unclear what Onegu read on Bereft is.
Everything is simply OK.. yet after digging up the posts, quite a few of Onegu pointers are clearly not applicable.

When i read this list of observations on Bereft originally, I thought Bereft could be scum due to blending in with status quo (which aligns with how Onegu constantly says everything is "OK")
Again, this is a clear misrepresentation of Bereft - with low effort to boot

Thus I agree with Sciberbia that Onegu does not appear to care about the direction of this lynch.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:36 GMT

#941

On November 22 2013 10:11 Holyflare wrote:
It implies moreso to mocsta because he should know something like that.

Thats hilarious.

I was about the say the exact same post to you....

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:41 GMT

#949

On November 22 2013 10:27 sciberbia wrote:
OK listen. For people not satisfied with a rayn lynch, we need to establish a decent counter wagon NOW or we will never have time to get 7 votes and people will just say "not enough time sorry let's just lynch rayn". My preferences are Onegu > Cora > Rean.

@thrawn, Mocsta, rayn, Holyflare, Onegu(?), Cora(?), anyone not wanting a rayn lynch
We need a god-damn counter wagon. Compromises have to be made -- not everybody can lynch their top choice. I started a wagon on Onegu which nobody would join. Thrawn and I started a wagon on Cora and thrawn jumped off. You guys need to put some votes down and consolidate.

Scibs.

I could contemplate Onegu and Holyflare.

My issue with your reserach into Ego mafia is that a town rayn should have been capable to pushing that out.
I even commented on this prior.

I also agree with Bereft that the tone is not similar.

My vote is sticking with Rayn.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:43 GMT

#955

On November 22 2013 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
mocsta wtf are you going on about... say something helpful

This is an unusal response.

Talk to me more.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:47 GMT

#962

On November 22 2013 10:42 thrawn2112 wrote:
##vote: onegu

I thought you had bigger balls.

I don't want to play with Rayn anymore full stop.
We had a good town environment until page 25ish and I was relaly enjoying this game.

He has single handedly shit the thread and this game has completely denigrated into somethign I have no interest playing anymore.

My vote is staying on Rayn.

/post-game
If rayn is town this game, you will be added to my personal ban list. Im pretty fucking disgusted right now.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:48 GMT

#964

On November 22 2013 10:42 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

Replace aquanim's name with mocsta and answer me that please.

WIFOM, your specialty as scum.

As I said to Onegu, considering you have played with me recently as scum. Its pretty clear what my ailgnment is.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:49 GMT

#967

On November 22 2013 10:45 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

yes it was i'm sorry

I dont need an apology.

I would like to know why you thought it wasnt useful?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:50 GMT

#970

On November 22 2013 10:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
Sorry guys I don't like onegu lynch either ##unvote and I will not vote again unless I've thought about it for more than 10 seconds.

Do us a favour and vote rayn again please.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:51 GMT

#974

On November 22 2013 10:49 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Dude he's town, I'm sorry, I hate it too, it hurts my ego and it also makes the game a lot harder if you consider voting someone else... but rayn is town so we should play accordingly.

Give me three reasons why Rayn can only be town.

If you have such a strong opinion, this should be quite easy.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:53 GMT

#977

On November 22 2013 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and that's why what I said was a dumb thing to post. Now we need to stop circle jerking and figure out who besides rayn we're going to lynch.

No, you dont get to brush this off.

Why did you vote Onegu afterwards.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 01:56 GMT

#981

On November 22 2013 10:54 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

mocsta unless you think I'm scum please stfu

I am starting to give it weight

So answer the god-damn question.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 02:06 GMT

#1001

On November 22 2013 11:00 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I will expand on my previous post.

I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and my knee jerk reaction was to call your post useless. That is my brain's way of tricking me into thinking that I didn't actually need to read your post, my brain is a lazy fuck sometimes and I need to be more mindful of its sinister machinations.

Then I realized everything in the above paragraph and decided to read your post. I agreed with it and was desperately looking for a candidate so I voted Onegu. Then I went and read his filter and decided I can't find enough scumminess in it that's worth lynching him over.

Thank you.
I dont have a problem you didnt want to read the post - that is normal.
I dont agree with your reasoning; however,i dont know you very well so it i wont argue it either.

(in my opinion)
Call outs like what you did only occur when you have a strong read on someone and then the "where da fuq did that post come from" identifies an opposite alignment on that person.

If you could not find enough scumminess in onegu filter; do you think he cares about seeing a lynch through?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 02:09 GMT

#1006

On November 22 2013 11:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At least i am not a whiny little girl when i am accused of being scum.

Yep,

just a whiny little girl every other day of the week.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 02:20 GMT

#1016

Scib
There is one thing to lynch scum and another to continue lynching scum

I agree that it is very bad those you named have had very low presence over the past 8hrs.
Rean in particular as a true lynch candidate.

However, even if we secured a non rayn scum lynch.. he is making this game unplayable and his reads are terrible. I'm not scum.

I see more value to town with a rayn lynch/mislynch than a scum lynch not in rayn.

Sorry to say it but he's playing that antitown I have to call for policy

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 02:29 GMT

#1025

Rayn

What didnyou think if thrawn and his position on onegu?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 02:30 GMT

#1027

Corazon was always going to do this I think.
Sigh
I have to go to a meeting.

Ugghhh

Please vote rayn. There's nothing more I can say

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 03:41 GMT

#1102

On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno

So.. am I still scum to you?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

November 22 2013 03:50 GMT

#1105

On November 22 2013 11:48 sciberbia wrote:
I'll consolidate to rayn if necessary.

But you guys really need to put your votes down. This is the problem with not having a counterwagon. Now we are just lynching rayn because we have no choice, not because that many people even think he's a good lynch.

The original counter-wagons were Rean / Aqua

As a musing

The day had 2 halves

Half 1: Before Rayn chucked martyred

Half 2: After Rayn martyred

My reads from Half 1 were:

On November 21 2013 14:49 Mocsta wrote:
Next, this is my group of strong town reads from p5 -> p20
{Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Rayn}

This is my group of tentative town reads from p5->p20 (i.e. people i dont have interest to lynch this cycle)
{Corazon, Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow}

Thus, this is my pile of shit left over: for todays lynch

{Rean, Sciberbia, jampidampi}

and then

On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:
Read the whole game. Updated reads list:

The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}

The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}

The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}

The common denominators are Rean + Jampidampi.

Jampidampi is terrible as he refused to commit to anything accusations on rayn last night (from recollection)
Rean is terrible for that post he made. It reads as if he knew he was not getting lynched so decided to keep quiet.

I dont like holyflare, but hes low priority for me - over the next cyles Im sure if he is town he can start proving it.

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