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On November 23 2013 08:47 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And someone with 4 or 5 votes in this extremely fractured lynch is very clearly frontrunner material, in my opinion. Things are so spread out if scum wants to mislynch they only need to have 2 or 3 people on me. It's what you've been fighting against for a while now, so I don't get why you aremn't seeing that. It's why I said the push on me isn't that successful, but it is going to work as things stand right now unless I'm misunderstanding the bvote thread. If you're town and scum is pushing you, it IS successful.
In my mind, scum DO NOT want to read the thread today. Scum look at the votes and see a mess. Scum look at the thread and see a mess. Scum feel like they're sitting pretty, or half-pretty, based on how many frontrunners are actually mafia.
IMO, scum drop some dinky votes or cases or reads or whatever and peace the hell out. They don't NEED to wreck the thread, and they PROBABLY don't need to play much damage control on votes. If BC is mafia, he's PROBABLY a goner, and we can look back at people who wavered on him, or wanted to lynch other folks, or whatever, especially at the points in the day where he had like 4-5 votes and was not a clear frontrunner.
But I don't think scum need to come in here and bust ass and pretend like they're trying to lynch someone and really convince people. IMO, MOST scum take the lazy play here.
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On November 23 2013 08:51 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 08:49 austinmcc wrote:
I see Mig, super, pandain, HF, onegu at last votecount.
onegu unvotes
super unvotes
pandain unvotes
super votes again
grack votes
you should now be at mig, super, HF, grack.
Rayn picked up 2 votes to go to 4. There are some other folks at 4 maybe or something. There are a bunch of unaccounted for votes (I have one of those). I am wrong, then. This rayn push concerns me. I think people may be riding Koshi to a mislynch. I also don't like how certain Koshi is of HF scum while pushing rayn so hard. Where is rayn? Have you considered that maybe HF feels comfortable with his vote on me because he doesn't think I'm going to be lynched and will attempt to mislynch me tomorrow or sometime in the future? rayn is in finland and I think possibly asleep. Unsure on time zones cuz we're AMURRCA and we don't need to know other times.
I honestly don't care what HF feels about his vote or you right now. I think for all the talk of consolidation and how that's needed, HF is just not a real candidate right now and also SHOULD NOT be. There are too many other people around. I think you continuing to engage him in discussion is a waste of your time and his right now, no matter who is mafia.
I think overall it makes me feel slightly better about you? But that's not really worthwhile given how much is going into all of this, and how there are 17 different conversations being fired back and forth across the thread.
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On November 23 2013 08:54 Pandain wrote:
Austin do you think I'm scum I don't know wtf you are right now. You have not been a focus of mine today, really, and I did a poor job of reading you in Croque Monsiuer Mafia.
You're in the middle or the periphery of a bunch of other stuff that's going on though, and I need to actually sit down and look at you and vayne and slam and a couple other folks that are in this middle band for me that I just whoosh past.
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On November 23 2013 08:56 thrawn2112 wrote:
goddammit lol i'm not nearly scummy enough... plan failed
AUUUSTINNNN you're like confm town to me wtf should I do? I don't want to vote Risen because since I've come back he's been posting nearly the entire time uninterrupted and has made sense throughout all of it. It looks completely unlike what a scum player would be able to do in the last few hours leading up to his lynch. Why am I confirmed town now?
Also, on a more serious note if you're town.
OH MAN LOOK AT THAT YOU JUST POSTED SORT OF A READ ON A PLAYER UP FOR LYNCH WITH A JUSTIFICATION THAT MAKES SENSE. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT YOU SHOULD DO WHEN YOU DECIDE WHO TO LYNCH.
You have now removed Risen from your possible voting options.
If you look at BC, ss, oats, maybe a little rayn and a little of koshi's stuff on rayn, I bet you can totally get through a couple of those people and find reasons to vote or not vote them and then put that in the thread and vote accordingly. 
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On November 23 2013 08:51 Risen wrote:
This rayn push concerns me. I think people may be riding Koshi to a mislynch. I also don't like how certain Koshi is of HF scum while pushing rayn so hard. Where is rayn? It's concerning, yes, but again...with votes so spread I really don't think scum HAS to come out this late in the day and try to push some new candidate to a mislynch. If rayn is town, it's decent for them to get him mislynched, but it also makes the thread a little more legible. I don't necessarily see why they want him dead NOW over other people when he's engaging in so many little fights and his reads are jumping like crazy.
Unlike BC surviving last night, where scum are a little unsure of what he's going to do given 48 hours and maybe actually playing, rayn has shown today that he can be twisted around in all sorts of claims and lies and minutiae (if he's town). I don't think scum mind not lynching him, and don't see them really trying to push the case. At the very least, I don't think Koshi looks scummy for pushing rayn. Some of the hop-ons COULD very well be scum, and we can watch for that.
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(You should also say why I'm confirmed town to you)
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On November 23 2013 09:07 Mig wrote:
Austin who are you leaning for with your last vote?
Are you concerned with the vote list on pandain? Myself so that I can close all these windows and tabs and stop worrying about this game
On a serious note.
I do not want to vote for LM right now. He's been relatively active in mason chat, and I like some of the answers he's given and the questions he's asked me. Either he's being relatively open for a mafia and I think he'll slip up, or he's probably town, gut read. Sometimes activity will be quickish enough that i THINK I'm getting legitimate thoughts, and, in kind of the same way as people talked about him D1, I don't necessarily know why he would mason me a bunch of the way through D3 and actively talk with me if he was mafia. He knows I was scummy on him. I know I'm spammy and ask a lot of questions and whatnot. I do not believe that he or his mafia team would say he should mason me if he's mafia.
That leaves me mainly looking at (serious candidates) : thrawn, possibly rayn.
If I had boatloads of time, I'd filter Pandain, Cheese, Vayne, and Slam very very hard. Cheese/Vayne/Slam have escaped most of the discussion today, all have chimed in from time to time, but generally been inactive and seemed to care less about the lynch than others. This fits my profile for what scum might be doing today. Cheese and Vayne especially, slam gets a little leeway because I know that fighting with rayn can be...unpleasant. But it is too late now to look at that and REALLY push that I think, although I just may.
That leaves me with BC + (rayn/thrawn) i think? I want to see what thrawn is up to right now.
Vote list on pandain is...hopeless, rayn, coag, risen, thrawn. I'm not worried about hopeless or risen right now, leaving rayn/coag/thrawn. Which makes me slightly worried about it, given that 2/3 of those votes are coming from folks that I'm worried about.
Rayn isn't even a mega super duper mafia read right now, but I would absolutely consider voting him. He HAS hopped around too much for my liking, he keeps tunneling people for 20 minutes and then zipping off to tunnel someone else. I'm used to more conviction from him, and continuous tunnels. There's a side benefit of I think improving thread cohesion and clarity to his lynch, and mining his scumreads which I'd have some faith in, but........it's a questionable lynch right now imo. I don't love a train building on a dude when he may very well be asleep. I don't ever see that PLANNED, but it allows things to really get going while someone isn't responding much. That's kind of moot because rayn has responded some, but mainly with KOSHI BAD KOSHI BAD KOSHI BAD.
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Pandain --> I'm not a vet, SS altered the logs
SS --> I didn't alter the logs
Pandain --> U GAIZ I WAS TRYING TO BE TRICKSY I'M TOTALLY A VET
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On November 23 2013 06:41 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 06:29 Coagulation wrote:On November 22 2013 13:25 Pandain wrote:On November 22 2013 13:22 Holyflare wrote:On November 22 2013 13:20 Pandain wrote:
What incriminating information do i have against me You just lied to us and tried to frame another player for the lie? Supersoft didn't put my real role in the thread. I don't know why he faked it, but I'm grateful because for all you know I'm a tracker and so I get shot. He is town HE SAYS YOU FAKED IT SS. Alright you guys are retarded. I'm the vet but there's no point to being the vet if scum knows you're the vet. So I had already claimed to SS because I trust him, and he probably forgot to take it out since it was a one liner. So I claimed that SS simply substituted my real role. God
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On November 23 2013 09:21 Risen wrote:
Austin, knowing that rayn has been reading the thread and just popped in and left now how does that change your recent post? I think he's probably not asleep.
I think...there's a decent chance he's mafia. I'm not overly confident in it. I think there are benefits to town for lynching him, but that's a TERRIBLE justification for a lynch at this point, imo.
Mainly, I want to look elsewhere still.
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I like oats's D1 filter and do not want to vote him. I disagree with ss's case, and I think the only major thing against oats FOR ME is the missing KP.
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Thanks BC for your reads and the thoughts if you are town. Can I ask you about your numbers? Is you saying to lynch me if "3" people in your list flip town supposed to be a "2"?
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On November 23 2013 09:28 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 09:26 austinmcc wrote:
I like oats's D1 filter and do not want to vote him. I disagree with ss's case, and I think the only major thing against oats FOR ME is the missing KP. FUCK the day1 filter!!!! he has done nothing townish!!! NOTHING!!! HE IS SCUM!!! I disagree with you saying he has done nothing townish. I read a decent amount of townish stuff in his filter.
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I still want to lynch BC instead of oats. If I am wrong about things then so be it, but he has been waffling all over "I haven't played a good town game in forever" and "Guys here are my reads and last testament you can win the game if you just follow them," artanis got RBed, BC hasn't been a LARGE factor in the game or been shot, SOMEONE(s) that is relatively veteran-y and somewhat active probably gets put in the mafia group (I don't count coag as a vet for this purpose because I haven't seen him play active scum/help his scum team (tee hee); mig is out for me as a strong townread).
BC has had a number of large-ish, well-reasoned, good lookin' posts. But when he's casually discussing things and active in thread, it tends to be focused on a limited range of topics - his own defense, grack, and earlier today, mig. Maybe he's on to stuff, but I feel like his sexy looking posts are markedly different from his casual posts, and that makes me worried that he's packaging the posts he really needs to make in order to look decent, drawing them up ahead of time, and dropping them to convince people, then dipping out of the thread. If the very convincing posts weren't usually made after long absences, I'd be...more inclined to believe them? Or if they were sloppy or something? I'm pretty sure I do actually believe this.
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My other vote went on thrawn. I don't want to lynch LM and he doesn't have boatloads on him, I don't want to lynch pandain, and rayn is ... such a tossup.
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On November 23 2013 09:37 austinmcc wrote:
I still want to lynch BC instead of oats. If I am wrong about things then so be it, but he has been waffling all over "I haven't played a good town game in forever" and "Guys here are my reads and last testament you can win the game if you just follow them," artanis got RBed, BC hasn't been a LARGE factor in the game or been shot, SOMEONE(s) that is relatively veteran-y and somewhat active probably gets put in the mafia group (I don't count coag as a vet for this purpose because I haven't seen him play active scum/help his scum team (tee hee); mig is out for me as a strong townread).
BC has had a number of large-ish, well-reasoned, good lookin' posts. But when he's casually discussing things and active in thread, it tends to be focused on a limited range of topics - his own defense, grack, and earlier today, mig. Maybe he's on to stuff, but I feel like his sexy looking posts are markedly different from his casual posts, and that makes me worried that he's packaging the posts he really needs to make in order to look decent, drawing them up ahead of time, and dropping them to convince people, then dipping out of the thread. If the very convincing posts weren't usually made after long absences, I'd be...more inclined to believe them? Or if they were sloppy or something? I'm pretty sure I do actually believe this. The first sentence of this is important to me. I KNOW that's something to be conflicted on, and if he's town then okay, he was conflicted on it.
But BC has argued both:
(1) I am not threatening to scum, that's why they kept me alive, my town game has been butt recently
and
(2) You guys are all horribly wrong, I am right. Here are the reads you should 100% follow, and I am town.
Granted, he KNOWS his alignment, and may KNOW what's wrong with his lynch. But it's somewhat difficult to trust that, and he is VERY VERY VERY certain about pushing his own full scumlist while saying he hasn't had a good town game in a while. Maybe this is it and he breaks back into a form he's happy with, or somewhat happy with, but I see these as divergent trains of thought.
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On November 23 2013 09:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 09:37 austinmcc wrote:
I still want to lynch BC instead of oats. If I am wrong about things then so be it, but he has been waffling all over "I haven't played a good town game in forever" and "Guys here are my reads and last testament you can win the game if you just follow them," artanis got RBed, BC hasn't been a LARGE factor in the game or been shot, SOMEONE(s) that is relatively veteran-y and somewhat active probably gets put in the mafia group (I don't count coag as a vet for this purpose because I haven't seen him play active scum/help his scum team (tee hee); mig is out for me as a strong townread).
BC has had a number of large-ish, well-reasoned, good lookin' posts. But when he's casually discussing things and active in thread, it tends to be focused on a limited range of topics - his own defense, grack, and earlier today, mig. Maybe he's on to stuff, but I feel like his sexy looking posts are markedly different from his casual posts, and that makes me worried that he's packaging the posts he really needs to make in order to look decent, drawing them up ahead of time, and dropping them to convince people, then dipping out of the thread. If the very convincing posts weren't usually made after long absences, I'd be...more inclined to believe them? Or if they were sloppy or something? I'm pretty sure I do actually believe this. I totally feel why you would feel this way. My only issue with this I a) have been a large factor. Just not in the way you would hope for (being a prime suspect sucks but is still a large part), and b) not being shot theoretically puts you, mig, me all in the same boat as scummyness. I would mention SS as well but well he has pardoner vet vest. Also austin. I recognize you can feel the difference in my posts. I would too. Given that any post I write that's larger then say, 5-10 lines is something I generally spend 30 minutes to an hour just writing, not counting any work gone into filter diving. Its a ton of work, and requires me to spend far more time writing them. I think you can appreciate this as you would know it to be true from doing your own analytical work. Casual posts are things you write quickly. You also shouldn't be blaming me for long absences and huge posts when multiple players are also guilty of this. I am fine with you targetting me but if you are nailing me for certain aspects you should also be looking at others in the same light. I feel that almost all my medium and large-size posts are rushed through, have some poor reasoning in them, and are often difficult to follow. I am TERRIBLE at crafting a really nice-reading post, and if I craft something, it tends to be for maximum stupidity. But...I understand what you're saying, and agree that it SHOULD be that way.
I totally agree on the absences thing, and it IS something that I'm looking at or will be looking at. I've got vayne/cheese/you/thrawn/onegu as people who really disappeared for times today. You had way more ... legitimate posts/reads than the rest in that group, most of the rest threw a couple posts together and whooshed away. To some extent, a couple mafia in that group explains why reads are so confused and most people feel like they're chasing their tails today.
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On November 23 2013 09:44 Mig wrote:
Vayne/austin Vote Risen? Austin you said we should consolidate votes. Voting thrawn is not consolidating. I don't want to lynch risen. I would rather consolidate onto rayn.
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On November 23 2013 09:46 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 09:45 austinmcc wrote:On November 23 2013 09:44 Mig wrote:
Vayne/austin Vote Risen? Austin you said we should consolidate votes. Voting thrawn is not consolidating. I don't want to lynch risen. I would rather consolidate onto rayn. only to purify the thread? no. Partway to purify. Partway because his stuff between last night and early today looks suspect. He jumped from me being 100% scum to believing my vet claim and having me town, to putting me back as scum. He hopped on each and every possible lie or misconception and called people scum for it. He has been incredibly active earlier today, but it never felt like he had CLEAR suspects and was PUSHING THEM. It felt like he was flailing around in the thread, jumping around, and for all his activity he wasn't DOING anything with it.
If you can look at all of rayn's posts today and give me a clear suspect or two that he legitimately tried to get lynched by pushing them and convincing people and not moving off of, I am all ears.
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On November 23 2013 09:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 09:44 austinmcc wrote:On November 23 2013 09:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 23 2013 09:37 austinmcc wrote:
I still want to lynch BC instead of oats. If I am wrong about things then so be it, but he has been waffling all over "I haven't played a good town game in forever" and "Guys here are my reads and last testament you can win the game if you just follow them," artanis got RBed, BC hasn't been a LARGE factor in the game or been shot, SOMEONE(s) that is relatively veteran-y and somewhat active probably gets put in the mafia group (I don't count coag as a vet for this purpose because I haven't seen him play active scum/help his scum team (tee hee); mig is out for me as a strong townread).
BC has had a number of large-ish, well-reasoned, good lookin' posts. But when he's casually discussing things and active in thread, it tends to be focused on a limited range of topics - his own defense, grack, and earlier today, mig. Maybe he's on to stuff, but I feel like his sexy looking posts are markedly different from his casual posts, and that makes me worried that he's packaging the posts he really needs to make in order to look decent, drawing them up ahead of time, and dropping them to convince people, then dipping out of the thread. If the very convincing posts weren't usually made after long absences, I'd be...more inclined to believe them? Or if they were sloppy or something? I'm pretty sure I do actually believe this. I totally feel why you would feel this way. My only issue with this I a) have been a large factor. Just not in the way you would hope for (being a prime suspect sucks but is still a large part), and b) not being shot theoretically puts you, mig, me all in the same boat as scummyness. I would mention SS as well but well he has pardoner vet vest. Also austin. I recognize you can feel the difference in my posts. I would too. Given that any post I write that's larger then say, 5-10 lines is something I generally spend 30 minutes to an hour just writing, not counting any work gone into filter diving. Its a ton of work, and requires me to spend far more time writing them. I think you can appreciate this as you would know it to be true from doing your own analytical work. Casual posts are things you write quickly. You also shouldn't be blaming me for long absences and huge posts when multiple players are also guilty of this. I am fine with you targetting me but if you are nailing me for certain aspects you should also be looking at others in the same light. I feel that almost all my medium and large-size posts are rushed through, have some poor reasoning in them, and are often difficult to follow. I am TERRIBLE at crafting a really nice-reading post, and if I craft something, it tends to be for maximum stupidity. But...I understand what you're saying, and agree that it SHOULD be that way. I totally agree on the absences thing, and it IS something that I'm looking at or will be looking at. I've got vayne/cheese/you/thrawn/onegu as people who really disappeared for times today. You had way more ... legitimate posts/reads than the rest in that group, most of the rest threw a couple posts together and whooshed away. To some extent, a couple mafia in that group explains why reads are so confused and most people feel like they're chasing their tails today. can I just ask you this one thing for clarification. Why would you just say that of a group of people you are pinning as scum for a largely selected behaviour are you opting to lynch the one performing the most town? I get that I'm a dead man now but I really want to know your thought process on it I think that you have other indicia I'm working off of.
Vayne/Cheese/Onegu all fit the bill for what I'm looking for.
Thrawn fits the bill but ALSO has his reaction to pandain/me lacking reads, and his odd reaction to your posts on mocsta/grack meta (which I disagree with, and if you're scummy, indicates that he is likely scum because his reaction was so different than others).
You get voted over those dudes because - (1) I was already looking at you; (2) stuff last night with Artanis's shot; (3) the mayoral votes are wonky and it feels like scum should have TRIED to get a candidate elected at some point or another, and you sort of fit that; (4) people who got shot last night had you as mafia; (5) some is pure expectations, which are higher of you (from me), than cheese or onegu.
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EPT
