Witchcraft Mini Mafia II

On November 03 2013 10:48 WaveofShadow wrote:

Fuck that, there's only one person in this game who has the ability to lynch me.
The question is, will he use his powers for good or for evil?
ONLY TIME MAY TELL

On November 04 2013 13:10 hzflank wrote:
WoS has only played scum once? Then wth was he doing coaching me in my first scum game. I even said before it started that having WoS as a coach was a handicap, and still they let this uni-scummer coach us.

I think what Thrawn was getting at was this line:



You are aware that scum sometimes jump on to something. The thing that you don't mention is that scum tend to do this if they think at least one town will also jump on it, as that allows them to place/leave their vote on the target for a longer period of time. I could certainly argue that Vanesco did this with his first post, but then one may also argue that you did the same.

Basically, that sentence was a little bit hypocritical.



Well, sometimes a man....actually we are not having that conversation.



Yes. If you enter a game with a really direct post where you call someone scum, it is probably for one of two reasons. Either you think it's time that the game got rolling and you want to change the style of conversation that is taking place, or you want your first post to make you look like you are town.

Umasi wanted to look like he was town, because if he were trying to direct the conversation to be more about post analysis and scum hunting then he would not of added this last sentence to his post.



Ofcourse, it is fair to point out that trying to look like town does not always make a person scum. But trying to look like town in your very first post makes someone (Umasi) look like uncomfortable scum.

On November 04 2013 13:36 hzflank wrote:
This should be in a pm, but I cannot pm you right now so before I get back to the game...

I was a jerk to you before that game started. That was intend as a joke, I did not mean any offense. I am genuinly very grateful for your assistance during that game.

Okay that said, back to being a jerk and playing this game.

On November 04 2013 14:03 hzflank wrote:
Ofcourse it was a joke: I used the word 'uni-scummer'. I realize that people may not read my posts in the same tone that I write them, but If I am making up a silly word then I am not being serious.

On November 04 2013 14:44 EchelonTee wrote:
Cool it Onegu. He said that he didn't mean offense and was greatful towards WoS. His "back to being a jerk" thing is obviously light-hearted. Your policy lynch is not a good idea.

On November 04 2013 14:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Onegu calm down, I obviously misinterpreted him in our exchanges and for that I apologize as well.
Back to the game:
##Unvote
I REALLY fucking hope this doesn't bite me in the ass but Vanesco is now exhibiting a little more of what I was waiting for.

Essentially Vanesco, whether or not he has played on other forums or whatever boils down to either noob scum or noob town. An experienced player would not need attempt to earnestly call people out simply to 'get the game going' without dropping a vote or taking a hard stance, whether pressure-vote or not.
I redact my earlier scumread on him and (hopefully this doesn't bite me in the ass) he is now noob town.
The OMGUS on Umasi, (OMGUS in my experience tends to be used by town way more often than scum) the blatant disregard for what a towny is 'supposed to do' (why call someone out for no reason whatsoever---only serves to draw attention to himself which he has certainly garnered). I would think a newbie scum would at the very least attempt to backtrack due to inherent guilt when being shown that what he has done is considered scummy here.

Townread for now, but Vanesco I want to see something positive from you real soon. Scumread on Umasi notwithstanding.

On November 04 2013 15:06 Vanesco wrote:
So it seems that from all this negative feedback on me not voting that after thinking somebody is very scummy a vote is typical action. From my POV it seemed better not to vote because I don't like lurkers to just get a free ride by latching on, but after seeing the responses I have to agree with most of them and it was a bad play by me. Therefore:
##Vote: Umasi

On November 04 2013 14:54 hzflank wrote:
Look, I did not bash anyone. Maybe you did not interpret what I wrote the way in which I intended it to be interpreted. When I said back to being a jerk it was because I was intending to keep up a certain tone in my in game posts for most of day one, and I have sound strategic reasons for doing so.

I am here to play a game. At no time, ever, during the game have I or will I ever intend to personally insult anybody. It might happen on occasion due to the medium (text), and if it does then I will apologise.

There are also some cultural differences in the way British people phrase things compared to Americans, and ofcourse British slang can be different. Not to mention that British humour is very different to American humour.

I'm useless at the moment, so will be back to the game later.

On November 04 2013 11:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best.
I can't read OO for shit.
I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts.
Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk
Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell.
gumshoe ....
thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here
Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch
Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely.
ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts.
hzflank i can read.
Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.

and yeah, that's it.

On November 04 2013 16:21 Vanesco wrote:
When did I ever say that? Please show me exactly where I say that. And if I don't then why are you trying to make stuff up? This entire time from the start when Umasi voted on me I have been a large center of discussion and it's getting pretty irritating where even when I try to give my reads everybody just starts harping on me anyways for doing something that they don't like or aren't accustomed to. Just cause you think one way is the only way to play doesn't mean it actually is.

On November 04 2013 20:59 Sylencia wrote:
My guess is that OO misread Vanesco as Vayne(sco)

On November 04 2013 12:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think the votes on Van are kinda shit.

On November 04 2013 12:33 hzflank wrote:
Umasi's first post was too how-to-look-town-101 for a first post with no follow-up.

“I will be firm and call someone scum because that is a town thing to do. That guy was not being firm, so he is the guy that I will call scum. Raaaar, I'm so townly!”

Umasi is my biggest scum read right now. Nothing to ask him really as I expect he will make a response to Van's response anyway, which is what I want to see.

On November 04 2013 23:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
I personally plan on being VERY careful about hzflank. He is a strong player and not to be underestimated.

Onegu I have already discussed this matter with hzflank; do you have anything to add besides his post being 'out of place?'

On November 05 2013 01:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
lololol the floodgates have opened! Bring it on, hataz.
Sn0---my only scumgame was probably the game with the lowest proportional activity in my history, though to be fair I did that calculation last ages ago, and one scumgame does not a meta make.

Onegu - opportunistic as fuck. You're all over me and liking what I do and now that gumshoe posts some walls you turn on me like a rabid dog. Don't make me put you down. Come to think of it, 'rabid dog' is a good example for you turning on hzflank too. You're rubbin' me all sorts of 'the wrong way' all of a sudden.

I'm not surprised no one has called me out, I was surprised no one called me out SPECIFICALLY about the point regarding the 'bite-me-in-the-ass/wishy-washiness' because it's a really easy 'case' to make as town or scum and people do that shit all the time to contribute. Requires very little effort. And please, activity is certainly not my only defense; why is that the only thing you felt was relevant enough to comment on?
Let's hear you come up with something this game that someone else hasn't done first, then we can talk, k boyo?


Gumshoe I will address your recent stuff a little later when I have more time; i like discussing with you so it would be nice to get you off of my case so we can go somewhere productive.

On November 05 2013 02:14 thrawn2112 wrote:


I don't think I've ever played with mafia syl. As town he's lurky and people always want to lynch him even though they know better. As for this game I'm not worried abotu him atm.

WOS: what do you think about the entrances of gumshoe and sn0_man

On November 04 2013 23:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sweet, we're getting the non-lurk gumshoe this game.
Alrighty let's see:

I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on; I even mentioned 'nooby or scum' in one of my first few posts about him. It wasn't a bait to get him going, but I wanted him to post more to see his reaction to the pressure; that is whether he reacted in a towny or scummy way (both nooby imo). I got my answer and unvoted accordingly. Call it wishy-washy if you will but I have provided reasoning for everything I have done all day and been completely transparent with my reads and questioning. As far as the 'bite me in the ass' comments, I can't talk about one of those, but I've been systematically wrong on newbie reads a lot, so it is something I am particularly paranoid about. I was wrong about Koshi in the first game I was exposed to him as scum, and I was also wrong about Chairman Ray in a recent game of his. It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now.

Other thoughts:
If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion.

Also gumshoe, I hate to drop this card but do you honestly think at this point that the most active and engaging person in the thread is scum?

On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.

You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe?

On November 05 2013 03:19 ObviousOne wrote:

No that's why I've gotta go check =[

On November 05 2013 03:14 Onegu wrote:



This is completely subjective and not a defense and the only other defense you offer is, do you think the most active person is scum?



Again subjective with you only saying your play has been good and you have been active. So other then you saying you have been playing well and transparant. Your defense was filter legnth.

On November 05 2013 03:36 WaveofShadow wrote:

Ok so my own accounts of my own filter are subjective. That's a real eye-opener, thanks for pointing that out!
Does it make me scum?
No desire to read anything else of what I've written?
Or talk about anything else?
Jeez I can barely contain myself with all of this original, discussion-promoting and thought provoking content!

On November 05 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote:

What I'm saying is, if you're NOT calling me scum, what is the point of your constant drilling home about my self-subjective posts WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE REST OF MY DEFENSES AND EVERYTHING ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, RELEVANT.

Feel super good about my vote choice atm. OO, join me. Hell I'll even accept Sn0 coming aboard, even if you're scum. I offer one red ticket aboard the train of justice and you can have it if you'd like.

On November 05 2013 02:59 WaveofShadow wrote:

My only defense is certainly not my filter as I have explained before (see what I wrote to gumshoe and will continue to do so after this). I am perfectly happy with my content as well as the size of my filter as I personally believe (despite perceived inconsistencies that people are real happy to bring up) that I have once again been completely transparent with my reads, been question and pushing when I feel something is off, and responded to pressure accordingly.

There's also something else that you and gumshoe neglect to mention which I will show in an upcoming post responding to his long posts: inconsistencies do not a scum make. You have to be able to explain why any inconsistencies that may or may not be present are likely to come from scum. Not only do I not believe I was inconsistent anywhere, I certainly do not believe you can show how I am scummy based on those inconsistencies.

For example you bring up ET's response to me which I never brought up again. Why is that indicative of scum OR inconsistent? I asked him a question, he answered it, I was satisfied.

On November 05 2013 03:15 WaveofShadow wrote:

Alright inconclusivity---I haven't been able to do detailed filter diving/looking into past games until now. What I said about hzflank isn't inconsistent at all. Just because I like one post of his doesn't mean I like his filter on the whole which contains mostly nothing. That's really nitpicky from you gumshoe and I expect better. I fully intend to follow my train of though regarding hzflank once I can dive into his past games, which is exactly what I said in the first bolded section of my post. Not sure why you feel there is a problem there. Would you prefer if I just say nothing to the thread until I can write an essay at a time? Because sadly I'm pretty sure it's evident to you that is not how I play---I prefer stream-of-consciousness and will post whenever and whatever I feel.

And on that note---do you REALLY think my posting is 'tip-toeing?' Why the fuck would I as scum post every single thought that goes through my head for the town to read and obsess over like people have been, draw as much attention to myself as possible, and keep positive discussion going? That makes absolutely no sense, and again gumshoe I would figure you'd pick up on that. This kind of behaviour makes zero sense from a mafia standpoint (unless you wanted to make the argument that I'm attempting to spam up the thread with useless shit, about which I'd be pretty pissed if you called all of my posting useless). The fact that you wouldn't call me honest either is frustrating to me, because even in my one fucking scumgame I'm almost completely honest. Not to mention you have no way of proving that at all so it just amounts to an attack on my character. If there is one thing that can be said about my TL Mafia play, I have NEVER lied as town, and very rarely as even 3P or mafia.


Do you actually plan on picking apart everything I do and say? As far as the 'out' I gave Vanesco by means of my analysis of him and my unvoting---in my mind what ET posted and what I did amounts to the same thing.

How is this not related to his aggressive stance on Umasi? Him ramping up his offense in response is exactly what I stated here I don't think a noobie scum would do. How is that unrelated exactly? So in my mind I suppose Vanesco took my out but in his he took ET's, but they are the basically the same thing and the beginning of my analysis to Vanesco was posted even before ET's questions, so we came up with them at similar points in time while thinking similar things---this gives me an incidental townread on ET btw.

As for the quote you mentioned---basically the way you set it up I have no way to not look scummy. You don't see anything towny in that whatsoever. If I leave my vote on him I look scummy because Vanesco is town. If I take it off I was making excuses for myself and setting it up. The fact that you have shown to refuse to see the possibility of ANYTHING towny in my play by the way you have attempted to tear apart everything I say and do leaves me troubled because I know you can be a strong force for town, but you're just not doing town a great service by acting this way.

At this point I'm finished responding to cases by you against me because I don't feel like there will be anything left to say---you'll either take what I have to say and weigh it and decide whether it makes sense from either point of view and come to the right decision, or you will continue to nitpick and further misrepresent what I am doing and saying to fit your read. Either way I don't feel like there is anything to gain by further discussing me.

Onto the subject of hzflank who I will be looking at shortly---Gumshoe what are YOUR thoughts on him?
Hell what are your thoughts on anyone aside from me?

On November 05 2013 02:28 Onegu wrote:



He was mafia in desert with me and marv, that you replaced into.

On November 05 2013 13:13 WaveofShadow wrote:

Be fair, afaik Onegu has NEVER used his condition as an excuse as to his play. He's a straight up guy.

Ugh gumshoe why would you apologise like that? As town you're not wasting anyone's time if you're trying to get better reads on someone. Glahhhh quick do something positive please so I can shake the horrible vibe you just gave me.

On November 05 2013 14:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright my turn.
This was what stuck out the most for me about Syl:

I looked over this a couple of times and I'm not sure what conclusion to draw. Initially I thought 'Well here's a completely new point nobody has brought up regarding the Ceph case before. I disagree with the conclusion (same as Umasi) but it looks like he's legitimately diving and putting forth effort. Townie points.'

The issue I'm finding now upon reading it again is, what mindset does it take to assume that Ceph's aggression is forced? Sylencia's assumption obviously wasn't a common thought amongst those people who tried to debunk Cephiro's case on me, otherwise it would have been brought up already.

I think originally I had Sylencia as town but on second thought now I'm not so sure. It seems my thoughts may be more in line with hzflank. He calls his own idea of pre-targeting 'baseless conjecture,' and most importantly he calls it something he could see as scum being likely to do---but would a townie immediately consider this? I think it speaks of a scum mindset honestly. I have him just below null on the scum-o-meter and I will not be lynching him today; as was stated I don't think it will be too difficult to garner reads on him as we go forward.

The point of my game though was to see who would engage freely and see which of the points I initially thought of when looking through Sylencia were brought up by others and why---again this can often be very telling as to where others' mindsets lie when performing analysis.

As it stands right now I shared some of Umasi's and hzflank's thoughts enough that I am still fine in where my vote stands---on Onegu, who did not bother to address what was going on in thread, rather he chose to comment on my post defending his activity and throw out some other irrelevant reads for the moment.

On August 30 2013 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Onegu plays way WAY, LIKE WAYYY better as scum than he does as town.

On November 06 2013 18:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Could you elaborate more on why do you think WoS would not unvote you for selfvoting as scum?

On November 06 2013 18:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Iunno Onegu, what do you think about the fact that last game WoS did the exact same thing, as town?

On November 06 2013 19:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:

So in your opinion WoS is town because he did not hammer your lynch through because you selfvoted, which you thought was the best option for town. Instead WoS did the opposite, which based on your posts is what scum would want to do (as you say this: "I would rather people see my flip and who voted me then a no lynch that gives scum a free shot and town zero info"). This is exactly what WoS did by your definition. So could you explain the logic behind giving townie points to him for that action?

On November 06 2013 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well did he in your opinion try to hunt scum after unvoting you?

On November 07 2013 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like this is what Onegu did in Desert final day:

And we did not lynch him for it. :p

Anyways good night.

On November 06 2013 06:54 hzflank wrote:
Tbh I'd also be down with an Onegu lynch if needs be, certainly preferable to my own lynch.

On November 06 2013 06:32 hzflank wrote:


Oh don't worry, people's votes on me make no sense, therefore I am relying on them not sticking.

For example, WoS tends to think that people are town when they are reading the game in a similar fashion to him, right? Remember when I pushed you and WoS said "I was going to do that" or when I read Syl and WoS said they he read it the same way I did? WoS does not think I am scum, WoS wants me to be scum because I offended him and/or he saw my ego in full effect when he coached me. His vote can still change.

As for Thrawn and ET, well they are defaulting to me because they have no one better to vote for and they did not like my case on Sn0. The thing is, if you read me carefully you will noticed that my case on Sn0 was never meant to be pushed. In that portion of the game I actually thought that Umasi and ET were scum. The case on Sn0 was an attempt to engage him which failed. The case was also an attempt to make people view him in a more negative light so that I could see what people said about him when he appeared to be a somewhat easy lynch.

People don't really think that I am scum yet still want to lynch me D1. Reminds me of the White flag game that just ended

On November 07 2013 13:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
Onegu are you mafia?

I see you spend time making hzflank out to be scum, you decide that rayn is scum for letting the scum hzflank slip through? Why not just vote for hzflank then? Oh right, because WoS is already pushing a rayn lynch. Did I get that right?

On November 07 2013 13:28 thrawn2112 wrote:


Do you remember that quote rayn provided?

On November 04 2013 11:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best.
I can't read OO for shit.
I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts.
Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk
Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell.
gumshoe ....
thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here
Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch
Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely.
ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts.
hzflank i can read.
Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.

and yeah, that's it.

On November 07 2013 13:46 thrawn2112 wrote:
Onegu.. why is rayn scum? Just give me one or two sentences explaining why and please don't go looking through his filter, or anyone's case against him because I want this to be off the top of your head mmk?

On November 07 2013 14:03 thrawn2112 wrote:


yeah, I think what he's doing is backtracking, but if you believe him then he's not backtracking. he claimed to have been developing suspicions about rayn earlier, he just didn't point them out. we have to accept that on faith because there is nothing in his filter to prove to us on way or the other if he ever thought rayn was mafia

so the two choices are:

1) believe that he did think rayn was scum before now, except he didn't say anything about it and chose to talk about other stuff instead
2) he's scum and playing terribly

On November 07 2013 15:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also Onegu martyred as scum in Hogwarts.

On September 02 2013 23:24 Onegu wrote:



Ok I sent a PM to the hosts and syl (hope thats not illegal/cheating) if I could talk about FT in P4 when we talking about I have never seen his scum play, and since at the time he hadnt flipped and the game wasnt over they told me I couldnt. But now that the game is over I have seen FT play scum, it had no resemblence to this game, but my main point about his meta with me was I have seen him play lurky town in GoT and in that game he still made reads on people just not many, and when he came back he defended himself and posted his reads for his post death flip, he did none of those things this game. While sounding like a broken record, his meta wasnt the only reason I voted for him. His play and lack of interest was also scummy. He deserved to die and I would have done it again because he was playing scummy and against his meta.

The only thing I said to syl in the PM was can I talk about FT in persona, and his answer was no, the game is ongoing. Sorry if this is against the rules or cheating. I just wanted to know if I could talk about it.

On November 07 2013 17:18 Vanesco wrote:
After me trying to ask why people decided to vote on gumshoe in the last few minutes of the day I only got 2 responses (by thrawn and rayn). Mostly everybody else has been kinda lurking up to this point and still hasn't given a reason for their vote on gumshoe. I still believe that most likely that scum was involved in the vote since i don't think 7/9 townies would instantly change their vote which is why the reasons for switching your votes is really important in my opinion.

Out of the 7 who voted on gumshoe I feel like the most scummy are umasi and sno_man.

For those who are wondering why thrawn isn't there is because I do not think he is as scummy as I did last time. Ever since night 1 he has been posting well in my opinion. Another reason why is because of what I found suspicious at first, that he kinda deflected off of hzflank and started the vote on gumshoe. The more I think of it it makes me lean more town on him each time.

The argument still stands if they are both scum, but it would have been a big risk to take, but still a possibility. I don't see the scenario working if thrawn was scum and hzflank was town, that he would poke his head so far out to vote on gumshoe when all that was needed was 1 more vote on hzflank. And if thrawn is town, regardless of hzflanks alignment, he thought that gumshoe was a better vote as explained in his reasoning.

On November 06 2013 06:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Is therea case on hz because i can't find it. And if we need to "consolidate" 20 hours before the lynch and the defences to cases after that will be "you are not going to get me lynched because look, there are no votes on me" this game will be really shit.

On November 06 2013 06:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i am going to vote for hzflank most likely but this is bullshit, at least if he flips town.

On November 06 2013 06:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so why are we lynching hzflank over gumshoe?

On November 07 2013 17:46 thrawn2112 wrote:
Onegu I have a question. What do you think about rayn's actions during the lynch change if hzflank is town?

On November 07 2013 17:53 thrawn2112 wrote:


Pretend hzflank somehow flips green right now. Do you keep your vote on rayn on not?

On November 07 2013 18:55 thrawn2112 wrote:


and there is no way for me to verify this because you never said you thought rayn was scum until you voted for him. the only reasoning you gave in that post was that thought he was saving hzflank, which doesn't count as reasoning because it could be applied to so many other people just as senselessly. and this is after talking about hzflank all game long. it just doesn't make for a believable story.

On November 07 2013 21:14 Sylencia wrote:
I heard in White Flag the scum team threw themselves to try save their teammate. I don't think a repeat of that happened. The case he presented doesn't really have anythign else to it. Thing is, I don't think scum Onegu is that lazy when it comes to making cases..

On November 08 2013 12:03 thrawn2112 wrote:
If he really thought he was going to be lynched and decided to self vote to speed along that process to "help town" as he claimed, he was giving up way too early and for too little reason. Self voting when you know your going to be afk the rest of the lynch is helping town? If you read the thread around where he self voted you see he does it right after people start voting for me and thread sentiment does not indicate that there's enough reason for him to react so crazily.

On November 08 2013 05:16 Koshi wrote:
Cephiro
Sn0_Man
Rayn

Are these 3 guys considered town?

On November 08 2013 05:15 Koshi wrote:
Well. I am a man of God normally. But I rolled Acolyte this game. True Story. Hand to God.

On November 08 2013 03:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
Barring shenannies I usually expect my strongest townread to die every night. When they dont, (and instead its somebody I thought was pretty scummy) Alarm bells go off. I must not be thinking this game right. My solution to that would be if OO was a blue shot, then my reads can still be somewhat reasonable.

W/e, discussing it with u isn't helping I don't think.

On November 08 2013 14:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WoS i liked your post on Sn0, it's nearly the exact thoughts i had when i read those posts. He hasn't been saying much, there are people being discussed (me/Onegu/Syl/Hopeless/etc..) and he comes in with "hmm doods, why was OO hit?" and says pretty much nothing at all.

Onegu me doing nothing is bullshit. I have done the most today maybe barring thrawn, last night there was nothing to talk about because noone was here. At that point i had said everything there was to say for me. Why are you trying to continuously make me look bad for something that's not there? Feels like you have just decided i am scum and the go find reasons why could i be scum. Vote stands.

Sylencia looks worse. I liked his D1 but not his D2 the slightest. I can't possibly understand he has played scum with Onegu just a while ago and that's all he has to say about him.

Still waiting for hopeless to catch up. If he doesn't i will seriously consider him for a lynch. Same with Cephiro. I liked this from Umasi:


Koshiiiiiii <3<3<3<3 Also Koshi, i hope you catch up today, hzflank wasn't looking too dandy and you didn't really help your slot with your posts yet.

On November 06 2013 23:13 Sylencia wrote:


At this stage, town isn't in the best shape. I honestly don't think that a no-lynch is really an option because we needed information. Getting an extra witchcraft vote is absolutely useless if we can't take full advantage of them, since the chance of striking gold with a DT check is fairly low, and even then you can't actually reveal that easily for there'll be a blue vig waiting to revenge kill you if you do reveal.

His reasoning of town swinging around and having no-lynch being better than lynching someone is both a way to try stifle discussion by making everyone take the lazy route, and him also trying to take the lazy way out of not having to commit to voting seriously.

One has to note that since this is majority lynch, mislynching is almost always going to leave some scum exposed when flipped, so it's a fair play to try stop that from happening since they stop information from coming out and they get a free NK.



No, I wasn't certain what I had said was exactly right and so I posted it out there to get someone's (ideally Ceph's) thoughts on it. During that time I looked at other people since that's more productive than hoping for an answer. I get how it looks shady though.

About the lynch, is it not possible that we can agree on targets > 15 minutes before deadline? The last minute votes and switching makes it kind of difficult to interpret many of the players' intentions since so many are "here is my vote so we don't no-lynch" which is atrocious honestly.

Then comes the hammer vote:



What happened to his reasoning above? No where does he ever say "actually, bad plan guys, let's lynch." He just hammers, even though he can see the town death coming.

From my perspective, he was in a pretty rocky situation anyways:
- Doesn't vote: He'd cop a bunch of backlash from the players who were active at the time, and it'd make him look suspicious for not hammering.
- Does vote: Still looks shady because he's mentioned the above and completely backtracks and hammers.
That said, if he truly believed what he wrote above he would've stuck with it but I'm guessing he forgot he even mentioned the plan and just went with the flow.



1st sentence: The point is you still did.
2nd sentence: LOL. Honestly I would've wanted to shoot him on the spot for that if I was a vig Following town like that 'despite what you think' is more of a scum play than a town play in most cases. You co-operate because it's convenient for you to kill off a townie.

Not to mention if you look at Ceph's filter and search for mentions of gumshoe, it sounds like he has a more townish feel for gumshoe, and yet he kills him off. That's ridiculous. Of course, we don't know what his read was because he specifically said that he wouldn't reveal anything unless we asked but it's a bit late for that now.

Basically I don't see a townie writing this.

My predictions for scum group are: {Ceph, ET, Sn0, hzflank} - pick 3.

I haven't covered the last 2 that much, but PoE and whatnot. I'm more worried about hzflank just because almost every game if you avoid the D1 lynch you'll get a free ride for a few days, which could explain last minute train on gumshoe.

Skimming sn0 shows he was one of the lazy voters for the lynch, and hasn't really pushed for anyone except OO, but never votes him or makes a solid case against him. At this point I'd say he's more likely to flip scum than hz, but I need to properly read his filter at some point.

On November 08 2013 18:26 Koshi wrote:
I skimmed over everything but haven't read anything. At least that's how it feels.

On November 08 2013 19:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am basically waiting for Koshi/hopeless to catch up and other people to post.

Atm the game looks like rayn & thrawn talking and other people lurking. If this does not change we might aswell do the infamous Blazinghand randomizer (current hits-on-scum-rate 0/3 vanillatown,cop,candies) and pray we hit scum.

WoS made a good post and went off again. Onegu hasn't done anything to make me take my vote off him. Umasi made some good posts. So did Vanesco. Sylencia made more meh posts. hopeless is hopeless and mia. Same with Cephiro. Koshi is catching up.

bleh..

On November 08 2013 15:13 Onegu wrote:
Also in the above post it looks like you know I am town and am fustrated I am tunneling you with little evidence. Since the wording I have decided you are scum, comes from someone who you would think is town.

On November 09 2013 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote:
PS: If you think about how this game works it makes the most sense for scum to fire off AT LEAST 1 silver bullet the first night when there are 3 blue roles. Not only does this get you ahead early and hopefully give you thread control, but it also has pretty damn good chances of hitting a blue compared to when there is only 2 or 1 (and 1 comes pretty soon). Plus the more KP scum gets out early the less blues there are in the following days due to how the witchraft voting works.

It is also optimal for scum to shoot during the night since their shots resolve at phase-end (aka same day/night as the shot) which means any investigative role will not be able to reveal results. So I EXPECTED multiple deaths N1.

On November 09 2013 01:05 WaveofShadow wrote:

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON
Has absolutely everyone put their pants on their heads this game?
Umasi how in the fuck do you figure Cephiro is likely to be lynched today?

Onegu where the fuck did that Koshi vote come from?

Sn0 why the fuck would scum risk a non-refundable shot this early in the game if the kill is in no way guaranteed for multiple reasons? It's not a regular vig shot so there are REALLY good reasons not to take it early.

On November 09 2013 01:15 Hopeless1der wrote:

Quotes, filters and alignments for the games in question. You wanted to lynch the guy. Prove he martyr's ONLY as scum and NEVER as town.

On November 09 2013 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote:

Cuz they don't get more info. But they DO get less targets. And they deny themselves the chance to cut town's blue roles down almost instantly.

On November 09 2013 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:

Blue roles are already cut down to 2 after a mislynch. They have ZERO reason to shoot since an extra kill wouldn't cut them down any further (maybe? too lazy to find that chart right now, i could be wrong), but even more so, ZERO reason to shoot because as the game goes on town have less options aside from really obvious townies as to who to vote for for witchcraft, otherwise their votes go to scum---it's win-win for them. Even if my logic is bad here and there is some good reason for scum to shoot, the below is why I absolutely believe that there is no way OO was shot by bluevig.

KISS rule always always fucking applies. Which is a more simple case here Sn0? That scum shot OO with a bluevig and KP went into either vet or JK protect? Or simply no shot and KP on a guy who wasn't likely to be protected or voted into having power?

On November 09 2013 01:28 Koshi wrote:
Onegu, I am not scum m8.
Question to you: Did you feel like hzflank was invested in this game? Regardless of alignment.

On November 07 2013 18:49 Onegu wrote:
Because Im 85~% sure they are both scum and want to get rid of the dangerous one first.

On November 09 2013 01:53 WaveofShadow wrote:

I completely understand his thinking as convoluted as it may seem to you.
The only thing I worry about is falling into the trap I usually fall into. I can't rule out bias I suppose because it's true, there is nothing objectively towny about his play.

How about this, Rayn? you say you can catch him every game he pulls this shit. We lynch him today. If you were right, fucking fantastic and you're basically confirmed town to me (for reasons unrelated to the lynch specifically---you and I both know you're capable of bussing hard) If you were wrong, we lynch you next, k?

On November 09 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote:

lol you would, but then again I'm not asking you. Didn't Rayn already bring up an example of you pulling this exact same shit as scum?

On November 09 2013 02:10 WaveofShadow wrote:

I can't fuckign find it. I'm almost certain that somebody brought up the EXACT example of Onegu doing this where he tried to sac himself to get the next person lynched in a deal like this.

On November 09 2013 02:42 Vanesco wrote:
Onegu so I kinda was waiting a bit to see if you would explain your reasoning for voting off hzflank/koshi but you didn't and it seems like this trend happens way too much this game where people just give a vote and don't give any reasoning why. So what is your reason for your vote?

On November 09 2013 03:04 thrawn2112 wrote:


ok so....

-hzflank is scum, rayn voted for hzflank so rayn must be scum too (btw, lots of other people voted for hzflank i dont see you doing analysis on their votes)

-but rayn is more dangerous so lynch him for the crime of "saving" hzflnak

-koshi is better than hzflank so vote for koshi

dude your reasons have nothing to do with scumhunting...everyone lynch this guy

On November 09 2013 03:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
onegu, based on koshi's posts today do you really think he's mafia?

On November 09 2013 03:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
WoS I get what you mean about Onegu having a transparent thought process. The problem is that his justifications are very weak and the thought process only goes surface deep. When Onegu tells me why he wants to lynch somebody it's either because of non-scumhunting reasons such as player skill, or reasons that I would never be comfortable in using to call somebody mafia. It's not hard to construct a superficial fiction. Onegu is very tricky like rayn said and will say anything. You can't point to something he says and go "scum would never do/say this" because scum onegu will.

On November 09 2013 03:59 thrawn2112 wrote:


at the start of D1 you said you were voting rayn over hzflank because scum rayn is a bigger threat than scum hzflank. Do you think that scum koshi is a bigger threat than scum rayn?

On November 09 2013 03:56 thrawn2112 wrote:


What does this mean? What is your conclusion? Most of that is a description of his filter.

On November 09 2013 04:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
YUS
Koshi if these are fake baby seals will you ask GMarsh for a ban?

On November 09 2013 06:59 Sn0_Man wrote:
Onegu has sleep issues o.o