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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 10:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Really WoS, really? You are "not sure" what i am talking about? No I really don't know what you're referring to. I honestly can't tell based on the context. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Are you referring to me almost getting lynched in ##, or you getting lynched? Because I would think those are completely separate cases to this. In my case had I stayed away and not said anything try to help out the town in my frantic one-hour period, nobody would have tried to lynch me and I wouldn't have had to frantically try to change the lynch target again later on. This is extremely relatable to what gumshoe just said---if he didn't show up nobody would have lynched him, and I understand that completely. In your case---well we've had that argument and we don't agree on the reasons you were lynched. If it's something different from those things please tell me. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 10:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: No WoS, the thing here what gumshoe said does not refer to you, because he was using that as a defence. I did the exact same thing in ##, i got back when i could have stayed afk and not get called scum for it. I was scum. There was nothing alignment indicative in that comment because whatever way you look at it it's WIFOM. You're wrong. Look at the timing of gumshoe's and my posts. How long before you were lynched did you 'come back' from being afk? There's a massive difference. I really don't want to argue with you about this though because it's going to turn the thread into a shitfest and I already know you and I will not see eye-to-eye on this. It's irrelevant right now; I only wanted to know what you were originally referring to. On November 06 2013 10:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: And this is not true because of the following: (1) hzflank was here defending himself. (2) i just got back, ET lynch was not going to happen for some retarded reason and i really clearly had implied gumshoe was my #2 target for lynch. If we assume gumshoe is scum, it is not really hard to make an educated guess about who is going to be the next lynch target if hzflank lynch does not go through. It is going to be either gumshoe or Onegu. Do you disagree? I don't disagree that you would have tried to push him next anyway, but how do you think that would have looked on you if gumshoe hadn't come back at all? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 10:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: WoS i am talking about D1 in ## where i am referring to myself. I don't care how it would look on me. And that's not the argument here. The argument is there is nothing alignment indicative in his comment and i know it because i just did the same thing as scum, therefore the comment can be come from scum. If it could not come from scum i would have flipped town in ## game. If there is something that makes you think mafia!gumshoe could absolutely not say that and it had to be town!gumshoe, then tell me why so we can discuss it. We've already been over this. Gumshoe's entire early game posting makes no sense from a scum standpoint. (And for the record you are comparing apples and oranges if you are referring to D1 in ##. I disagree and that's all there is to that.) I'm not sure that it makes sense right now to go through his filter here and Basterd to debunk your case on him post-hoc because hindsight is 20/20 (or 6/6 in Canada!) and I can't be sure I won't be biased. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 10:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's why i said i hated this D1. I am not claiming i am always right. When i made the original case on gumshoe people did not tell where i was wrong (and i still stand behind my case besides gumshoe's alignment - obviously). PEople just ignored the case or said "no he has contributed here and here" which is not tellingwhere i am wrong because i did very clearly say what i thought gumshoe said in his posts. If i was worng and people thought i was wrong why the fuck would noone go into those posts and tell me: "Look, here. gumshoe says this and that. This means this and that, and it clearly contributes to the game because XYZ." That's how you are supposed to do it. Look at how i answered Cephiro's case on you and ET's case on thrawn. I think the cases were shit. I went through them and told people what i disagreed with. There is no reason why there should be bad/wrong cases in thread at any point of the game because having them distracts the town from scumhunting. That's why people should point out why the cases are bad and not just say "lol bad case" or stay silent. I hope you get what i mean. If i make a case and noone tells me why it is bad then i think i am right. Hold on a second. Lol now I know why nobody responded to you. On November 05 2013 13:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: tbh no, i do not remember his play from Basterd. I remember he claimed on N1 but i don't even remember why. After that he has been modkilled for inactivity or soht because i accidently outed him as blue (in a game i somehow thought everyone was blue) while he did pretty much nothing. 50% of my case on him is that i want him to actually say something uselful and 50% is that what he has said is either faked for no reason or useless contributions or something that makes no sense to me. This was the entirety of your case. I even called you out on your original vote of him calling it a cop-out because you didn't even explain anything. THIS is why you are acting so self-righteous about the lynch? I honestly wanted to wait before starting this shitfest, but I suppose you brought it on: On November 06 2013 07:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Apparently this is what happens when i do not drive the discussion on D1 from the beginning. rofl what a shitty D1. Not only is shitting on town considered scummy (I should know, people called me scummy for it through the entirety of Thug life), but you are acting all angry and self righteous for what amounts to no reason. You wanted ET lynch to happen, he's too towny, not going to happen. Surely getting your second scumread lynched should make you happy, no? Yeah you were wrong, but you got what you wanted done. Hell, you even got the fucking lynch on gumshoe started. Then when it happens and he flips town you have the audacity to blame everyone else? What the fuck is that play? Let's go, Rayn. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Your case was so shit nobody even needed to respond to it because it said nothing. You were vague and just said you didn't understand what he posted---and then when I asked you what the scum motivation was for what he posted? You said: On November 05 2013 17:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: Bleh.. I can't really say. :E I think it's not alignment indicative. Great case, bro. The only one we have to blame for D1 lynch is YOU, and whereas normally I would think the header of a D1 mislynch is alignment non-indicative, I believe it to be completely indicative of you being scum in this case. You had nothing to go on from the very beginning and you feel super strongly enough to call him your second strongest read after ET and THEN get pissed at everyone else to deflect? Scum city bro. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Don't you dare accuse me of lying. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 11:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know if you have been reading the thread or not but i backed up my gumshoe case with an argument about the differences in his posting in this game and in Basterd. Do i really need to go to my own fucking filter because everyone seems to have missed that post? No, I have it right here. On November 05 2013 17:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe's contributions in Basterd have a clear point, are transparent and every time they reach to a hard conclusion. None of those things happen in this game and half of his filter anyways is useless because it's about fake case that either serves no purpose if he is town or he just fucked up and is making stuff up if he is scum. I included it the 'vague'-ness but I can go into more detail and I will hash it out post-hoc because now it is dependent on me getting you lynched. His case isn't entirely fake. Never mind, even if you are scum for whatever reason you seem invested in this game. Dont waste time addressing an argument thats probably not valid (lol you already did nice XD) Besides if your scum you'll trip yourself up eventually if you keep posting like this / : Now,even though I actually did find those things you did fishy... I wasn't entirely honest regarding the intent of that case... On November 05 2013 11:10 gumshoe wrote: I made a post because the thread was stagnating, the post I made was of course mediocre seeing as it was made at the start of the game but I don't wanna hear that from you Ryan : P, the post was big and aggressive because it was meant to draw everyone out, and it's done just that. Even if Wos is scum(an increasingly slim possibility) I don't wanna lynch an extremely active player day 1. I'm still willing to kill Unegu, but why is it that no one finds oo's play weird? What is it that everyone finds townie about him? I'll be here to answer questions for a bit, but I don't have a phone so don't expect any walls of text T-T Also cephiro's opening post was just so balls to the walls... Reeked of confidence... Not sure what o make of that. This perfectly explains his reasoning for making his post. It was a long as hell case on me with weak reasoning to see if he could catch me out, buit in the end he thought it might be put to better use to catch others out if I came back and shot it down, as I did. An odd play as town, but surely you would understand something about odd plays as town, right Rayn? Whether or not you believe it served a purpose it certainly did to him and created discussion around targets he pointed out somehwat. I admit it would have been way more effective if he actually stuck around to push his shit, which is probably what made this play seem even weaker bu the point stands. There is zero scum motivation for doing what he did---do you really think a massive case like that is one big fuckup? Like, he spent 45 minutes writing all that shit up and then the one with the Youtube posts too but he fucked the entire thing up? No fucking way. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 11:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT COMMENT YOU QUOTED? THAT IS ABOUT ONEGU, NOT GUMSHOE? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING WAVEOFSHADOW??? It was not about Onegu. I was referring to your post. You asked me: On November 05 2013 17:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: Generally yes, it stands. Although now it doesn't because he brought it up. :E I have no idea what to think about it either. Could you comment on what i said about gumshoe? And I commented: On November 05 2013 17:17 WaveofShadow wrote: I see your point but the effort he put in while he WAS here (sporadically) gives me a great deal of pause. Why would he do that as scum? What is the motivation? So no, I am not making shit up. Just because YOU misunderstood me, that's not my problem. /dunked. Be back later. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 12:03 thrawn2112 wrote: rayn and WoS I don't any idea what either of you have been talking about Try reading. It's a useful skill toi have. On November 06 2013 11:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: WoS why would i say "i can't talk about it" about gumshoe? You said 'I can't really say.' I understood it to mean 'I don't know' rather than 'I can't talk about it due to ongoing game/whatever.' Let's go back then before the misunderstanding, shall we? Take the post I made, and respond to it the way I meant for you to respond---about gumshoe. What would his motivation have been as scum to post what he did? Made zero sense to me. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
In nay case, the rest of my case still stands. I posit that you have no right at all to be pissed off about the outcome of today's lynch and it is all a big show to deflect the blame. I expect at some point for other people to read our exchange and comment on it, but as it stands Rayn will be my target for tomorrow. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 12:12 thrawn2112 wrote: This is really the only part of the argument that I followed and I agree with it, especially with rayn starting off D1 deliberately being useless. That's the best you can do? Look I can even make Rayn's defense for him: a) ' I was demoralized 'cuz of getting caught/lynched in ##' b) I changed my mind and decided to start playing now. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 12:27 thrawn2112 wrote: I am NOT about to try and solve a mystery over who said who, who misinterpreted who, and who's lying when one of the people involved is rayn. All three of those things are pretty much exactly what rayn and I argued about endlessly in desert and I do not care enough about forum mafia to subject myself to that again. The only reason I gave rayn a pass initially is because he started playing the game, but those are pretty low standards to hold him to. ET will hate me for this but I don't see how rayn could still see ET as scum at this stage in the game. That tunnel is looking more forced as it's continued over into N1. (btw rayn, nobody needs to respond to your case on ET because you should be able to figure it out for yourself) Also go look at the argument I had with rayn about Syl, can you figure out exactly wtf his motives were during that conversation? He appeared to have absolutely no interest in what hzflank said about Syl, instead choosing to make the issue entirely about how I've waited until now to bring up a point made a day ago? Is that even a legitimate concern? The argument kinda fizzled out with, from what I could tell, rayn not having reached any conclusions about my alignment. So I can't figure out what his issue was other than he wanted to discredit me. Yes, I think I will be joining you on the rayn-train tomorrow. See this, I like. One comment though; if you know Rayn at all you know his tunnel potential is massive, so I wouldn't necessarily call that alignment indicative in his case. Your argument re: syl - On November 06 2013 06:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think Sylencia is scum, hz could be anything. What exactly has ET done this game other than bad case on you and been sloppy? He just got mad onme @ Hogwarts when i called him out of saying he knew scum had a fuckton of roles on D1. Dunno if i was right or not but he was scum so i don't find his reaction to bbe a town tell for sure. He didn't even answer anything about the case. If you believe he actually tried to do even some meta analysis on you lol.. This post looks like the kind of thing he said about gumshoe. There's just no effort put into a post like this. The difference here is Rayn actually put a HUGE effort into his previously noted ET case, which I want to try to go into at some point to see if I can find anything that jumps out at me. I would also find it interesting if Rayn tossed gumshoe in to save hzflank. My inclinations are a no since in my experience, scum rarely stick their necks out for teammates like this (though I think it would be pretty hilarious if we were on the right track with me and you randomly yolo-ing onto him). | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 12:47 thrawn2112 wrote: nah i'm cool on hzflank for now.. imo gumshoe was dead as soon as he made that last minute vote. SO WoS what do you think about sylencia and obviousone? I think obviousone started out ok but he's not kept it up, and his latest contribution wasn't really a contribution, he just threw some names out (ceph/et) for other people to pick up on. I asked him to give his opinion on what happened during the lynch and that's the best he can come up with? Apart from that group (syl/OO/rayn) there's nobody I can see being mafia, save maybe Onegu and I don't feel like looking into him will be all that useful until after he returns from afk-land. Eh, there is also Umasi but I felt OK about his play in the hours leading up to the lynch. Agree re: Umasi, I'm not sure of Syl; time will tell on that one. I agree with you that I liked OO early but now I'm meh on him. Can I ask you though---you said gumshoe was dead as soon as he last minute voted. Did you think he was scum for doing that? Were you convinced by Rayn or went there of your own accord? I can assure you after he posted this: On November 06 2013 06:55 gumshoe wrote: You all do realize I could have sat back and watched the no lynch go through / : besides I always ninja vote, get killed for it, and have never once flipped scum. Meh I would have pushed for people to gtfo. Since it seems we think the same a lot this game I am wondering why you didn't immediately think the same thing. Also what do you make of gumshoe's dying post? Does it hold water? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 06 2013 19:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: So in your opinion WoS is town because he did not hammer your lynch through because you selfvoted, which you thought was the best option for town. Instead WoS did the opposite, which based on your posts is what scum would want to do (as you say this: "I would rather people see my flip and who voted me then a no lynch that gives scum a free shot and town zero info"). This is exactly what WoS did by your definition. So could you explain the logic behind giving townie points to him for that action? Objection! Leading the witness! It's pretty fucking obvious you're trying to get Onegu to try and see something that just isn't there dude, and he's resisting pretty heavily. I wonder why that is? Be back around lunch to give a will post just in case...ya know. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 07 2013 00:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why don't you shut up already if you have no idea what i am doing. I am not trying to make anyone have a "false" read on you or what the fuck are you trying to say here. I am trying to have a better read on Onegu, because what he says makes no sense to me. Does it make sense to you? If you can't read Onegu based on what he's saying here, whether or not it makes sense to you then I don't know what to tell you. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 07 2013 03:46 thrawn2112 wrote: What Onegu is saying about WoS doesn't make sense to me either. It makes sense in that I can follow the train of thought but it doesnt make sense in that it's a weird and weak justification that Onegu's using to change his read on WoS. And this line: And Onegu doesn't think this is suspicious? His read on WoS seems fake. But see that's it exactly. So you can follow the train of thought, is the train of thought scummy? It may not make a lot of sense, or be GOOD in any way, but it's pretty transparent and bad and that looks towny to me. I have a HUGE reservation about what Rayn is insinuating with his questioning of Onegu but I think there may be bias on my part so I'm not going to say anything just yet. I'll leave it to scum central to explain himself because he told me to shut up and let him do what he's doing---though i must say I haven't seen a whole lot of anything yet. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 07 2013 03:59 thrawn2112 wrote: OK my guess is that you see this as scum rayn trying to coerce town onegu into thinking that WoS is mafia? To me it looks more like rayn is trying to figure out wtf onegu has a town read on you for such such strange reasons. Onegu said that after you (WoS) unvoted him, you didn't really scumhunt. But his opinion of you has gone from scummy to townie after the unvote? How does that makes sense? If town Onegu TRULY had a scumread on WoS, I don't think anything that WoS has done after and including the unvote would have made Onegu change his mind. Thrawn, it doesn't matter. Think about the thought process of Onegu. Completely self-centered and worried about who did what to prevent his own mislynch. This is a genuine town reaction to avoiding the noose imo. He said he felt better about me when I unvoted because all he cares about is the fact that I didn't want to mislynch him. terrible reason for a townread but genuine---it even overshadows the fact that I apparently voted for hzflank and didn't scumhunt for a few hours (which isn't scummy though Rayn is trying to make it seem as such---I will get to him again later on when I push him tomorrow). Who was it who had said Onegu's play is much better as scum? Does this look like good play to you? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Rayn - scummy scum scum. Lynch dis guy. Onegu - towny town town. Needs to pick up his play though and actually help out. OO - Super null. His activity picked up once again last night but I can honestly say I didn't read the discussion between him and thrawn because I was focused on rayn at the time. Becomes more obviously scum as the game goes on so not priority imo. thrawn - too much 'in-sync-ness' with me to be scum imo. Not the strongest townerad in the world but town enough. Umasi - could very well be scum. Keep on him. Syl - I think it's either him or hzflank here because I'm pretty damn unsure about the both of them hzflank - see above Ceph - Again, massive effort like that would be really impressive scumplay. Possible I suppose, but EXTREMELY unlikely. his activity was odd around the time of lynch so keep watch. Force something more out of him on D2. ET - Probs town. Sn0 - if he doesn't do shit today, lynch him. My reason D1 for saving his ass grows weaker as the game progresses and he's skating the fuck by. Vanesco - probs town Think that's everyone. I say GL but I doubt I'm goin' anywhere. :D | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 07 2013 04:16 thrawn2112 wrote: WoS if you haven't read the discussion between myself an OO you are definitely missing out I skimmed it, but I didn't get the same 'legit' fake-case feeling I got from gumshoe...do you sort of understand what I mean? OO is in no way off the hook- hence the downgrade to null from me. I expect you to help me with Rayn tomorrow...you promised. | ||
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