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On November 04 2013 13:10 hzflank wrote:WoS has only played scum once? Then wth was he doing coaching me in my first scum game. I even said before it started that having WoS as a coach was a handicap, and still they let this uni-scummer coach us. I think what Thrawn was getting at was this line: Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 10:48 WaveofShadow wrote:
Vanesco's post looks like typical 'scum trying to jump on the first odd thing somebody does for early game contributions n' shizz.
You are aware that scum sometimes jump on to something. The thing that you don't mention is that scum tend to do this if they think at least one town will also jump on it, as that allows them to place/leave their vote on the target for a longer period of time. I could certainly argue that Vanesco did this with his first post, but then one may also argue that you did the same. Basically, that sentence was a little bit hypocritical. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 12:55 WaveofShadow wrote:
As for 'who we are firm with,' care to elaborate? I asked you a question and you just gave me a very generic answer, without the specifics I was asking for. Well, sometimes a man....actually we are not having that conversation. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 12:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
hzflank do you think that is alignment indicative of anyone involved in the cycle of firmness? Yes. If you enter a game with a really direct post where you call someone scum, it is probably for one of two reasons. Either you think it's time that the game got rolling and you want to change the style of conversation that is taking place, or you want your first post to make you look like you are town. Umasi wanted to look like he was town, because if he were trying to direct the conversation to be more about post analysis and scum hunting then he would not of added this last sentence to his post. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 10:30 Umasi wrote:
Also, I support claiming votes and actions after they occur, so once it's back to the blues being VTs and unviggable, can't really think of a downside. Ofcourse, it is fair to point out that trying to look like town does not always make a person scum. But trying to look like town in your very first post makes someone (Umasi) look like uncomfortable scum.
Yeah, come to mention it, I do remember you being a jerk to me for absolutely no reason while I was trying to help you that game. Thanks. I mentioned to BH (who was hosting) that I thought it would probably be better if someone else did it but he said it was fine. Really glad I can look forward to this attitude from you throughout this game too.
As for hypocrisy, I don't need to try to contribute, or look like I'm contributing. I fucking DO contribute.
I don't think Umasi looks uncomfortable at all.
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Onegu calm down, I obviously misinterpreted him in our exchanges and for that I apologize as well.
Back to the game:
##Unvote
I REALLY fucking hope this doesn't bite me in the ass but Vanesco is now exhibiting a little more of what I was waiting for.
On November 04 2013 13:44 Vanesco wrote:
I don't get where this idea of my calling out Syl for not being firm is coming from. I just didn't like what he had to say and I decided that instead of people joking around I wanted to actually start the game, so I called him out. I didn't really take much of a stance because nothing in his response made me feel like he was scummy.
I'm having a really big scum read on Umasi currently. As explained before, in his first post I think only consists of 1 real accusation which is that I do not like talking about strategy since scum can meta it. To me it seems that he wants town to discuss strategy which leads me to the two most likely conclusions.
1) He doesn't know what to do, usually means a weak town and can be tricked easily by scum, or
2) mafia that wants to know the towns plans and how to use it against them
His only other post is him making a joke at somebody who thinks he's scum and then saying that I didn't pressure Syl hard (which I explain in the paragraph above). He then talks about how I don't like to talk about strategy which I explain why above. He mistakenly calls strategy "mechanics" when they are completely different things (in my opinion). I view mechanics as the rules of the game where strategy is how to play the game. I don't know if this is just me but it seems like he wants to blame that I'm not allowing people to discuss the rules of the game when infact I just don't like when people discuss the strategy they are going to use.
Essentially Vanesco, whether or not he has played on other forums or whatever boils down to either noob scum or noob town. An experienced player would not need attempt to earnestly call people out simply to 'get the game going' without dropping a vote or taking a hard stance, whether pressure-vote or not.
I redact my earlier scumread on him and (hopefully this doesn't bite me in the ass) he is now noob town.
The OMGUS on Umasi, (OMGUS in my experience tends to be used by town way more often than scum) the blatant disregard for what a towny is 'supposed to do' (why call someone out for no reason whatsoever---only serves to draw attention to himself which he has certainly garnered). I would think a newbie scum would at the very least attempt to backtrack due to inherent guilt when being shown that what he has done is considered scummy here.
Townread for now, but Vanesco I want to see something positive from you real soon. Scumread on Umasi notwithstanding.
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On November 04 2013 14:53 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 12:52 Umasi wrote:
Main reasons we should vote for Vanesco is
A: he preferred for a lack of talk about witchcraft specific mechanics (which is scum agenda but wuevuh)
B: Ambiguous post about Sylencia, which was scummy at the time for being ambiguous and scumm-ier after ^^^that quote, as explained. On your point A, not wanting to talk about setup isn't necessarily scummy. Scum people love talking about setup because it allows them to stick in a lot of words without pressuring people. Look at me in Hogwarts. Your point B I somewhat agree with. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 13:52 Vanesco wrote:
I have no reason to vote currently. There are still many people who have yet to post and it seems like an easy thing to just sheep on somebody else's vote without having to give much input. What are you talking about? Your reasoning for not voting is that other people could sheep onto you without giving input. The problem with that reasoning is as follows: 1.) You state that you have a "really big scum read on Umasi". 2.) If you have a big scum read on someone, it follows that you should want them lynched. 3.) If you vote them and people sheep on to you, those people are helping exact the lynch that you want. If you have a big scum read someone, why do you have a problem with people agreeing with your read? Is your read on Umasi actually not "really big"? This doesn't make sense.
Gumshoe, you'd better start talking soon because in your last game (GoT Mafia) you said practically nothing and got vig'd N1 as a VT. I'd not like a repeat.
Which is really fucking weird since the game directly before that he posted like fucking CRAZY.
ET, Vanesco's behaviour leads me to believe this is a case of failing to fit in right away in his first grand adventure with the big boys. I've seen this happen multiple times, (VA being a notable example) where people's playstyles clash heavily with what we're used to seeing here on TL and people inevitably get called scummy for it. Essentially if Vanesco were scum he'd be pretty damn aggressive in his first foray past his newbies and that simply doesn't seem wise to me.
Do you think Vanesco is scum for his actions or can he be town as well?
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On November 04 2013 15:50 Vanesco wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 15:37 Onegu wrote:On November 04 2013 15:06 Vanesco wrote:
So it seems that from all this negative feedback on me not voting that after thinking somebody is very scummy a vote is typical action. From my POV it seemed better not to vote because I don't like lurkers to just get a free ride by latching on, but after seeing the responses I have to agree with most of them and it was a bad play by me. Therefore:
##Vote: Umasi I think I would have liked you better if you didnt vote and stuck to you guns, this seems like "oh crap I better vote him because people are calling me out". Well I agree with the reasoning which is why I decided to vote. Also since many people commented on it, it seems like a fairly normal thing to do on TL mafia and since I plan on playing many more games, it would be foolish not to adapt. Overall, regardless whether I was voting for him or not, I still stand by Umasi being one of my scum reads.
Anyone is welcome to comment on Vanesco basically taking the out I gave him and running with it, because I still lean towny on him, but ughhhhhhhhh
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On November 04 2013 16:05 Vanesco wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 14:53 EchelonTee wrote:
What are you talking about? Your reasoning for not voting is that other people could sheep onto you without giving input.
The problem with that reasoning is as follows:
1.) You state that you have a "really big scum read on Umasi".
2.) If you have a big scum read on someone, it follows that you should want them lynched.
3.) If you vote them and people sheep on to you, those people are helping exact the lynch that you want.
If you have a big scum read someone, why do you have a problem with people agreeing with your read? Is your read on Umasi actually not "really big"? This doesn't make sense.
These are the points I agree with mostly. Since currently Umasi is my biggest scum read he would be my first lynch and then I would look more closely anybody who I think sheep'd in. I do not really agree on your point WoS that the first person I pressure in the game has to have my vote. I did not get a scum read from him, therefore I did not vote.
So basically anyone who thinks you are scummy must automatically be scum?
Was I scum until the moment I removed my vote?
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Hey Syl, what was the point of that wall of text exactly?
Did you reach any conclusions?
On November 04 2013 20:59 Sylencia wrote:
My guess is that OO misread Vanesco as Vayne(sco)
Also this is a bit of a stretch. I don't think this is what OO did though I suppose it is an odd question. Rayn you seem to be insinuating that the mention of Vayne is scummy somehow and I don't follow.
Oh and Vanesco, you're getting all offended at people calling you out and nitpicking over everything you do, but people are doing it for good reason. Your play has not been very good so far. As far as you not calling people scum who vote for you---that's literally exactly what you did, and then you said after your first scum target Umasi, you'd be looking at those who 'sheeped along.' Am I supposed to take away something else from that post of yours? If so please explain.
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I personally plan on being VERY careful about hzflank. He is a strong player and not to be underestimated.
Onegu I have already discussed this matter with hzflank; do you have anything to add besides his post being 'out of place?'
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I need to have a close look at hzflank honestly---I need to go look back at how he played his newbies; specifically the scum game I coached. Reading his filter I am not largely satisfied with his defense of the Umasi suspicion and he hasn't done much else, though I can understand being discouraged by all the of unwarranted attacks.
(At least unwarranted in his view. On that note I really don't get your reaction to my perceived slight by hzflank, Onegu. I can definitely take care of myself and you really kinda flew off the handle. Was really bewildering o.O)
There have been very few votes actually placed so far this game, and a minute amount of suspicion on very few targets so it seems to me to be advantageous for scum to simply be satisfied with the status quo thus far and not move suspicion off of the targets who are already under question somewhat, both of whom I believe to be town presently.
Random thought/stream-of-consciousness (since I was reading hzflank's setup analysis which I liked): Would it ever be worth it to simply claim blue roles during the day? Yes we will lose someone immediately I suppose but is that an acceptable risk if it means we can track role usage (assuming no mis-elections I suppose)?
It may not be worth it I guess if we fuck up bad and elect multiple scum since they can lie about getting RBed and implicate a towny in a 2scum 1town election scenario---yeah come to think of it I think it all falls apart if we fuck up and elect scum since they can lie about checks as well, and the nature of the checks makes it a hell of a lot easier to lie (regarding something like Blaspheme, for example).
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Sweet, we're getting the non-lurk gumshoe this game.
Alrighty let's see:
It would be fine if he was just absolving Vanesco, what bugs me is that hesitance, or rather how it sounds like Wos wouldn't really be suprised if Vanesco was scum. It reads more to me as posturing rather than reluctance. He placed a vote early in hopes of building some momentum, and when that mometum dropped he got off the train but positioned himself so that if it ever got rolling again, he could hop right back on under the basis that he suspected Vanesco all along. Which is a safe bet when you take into account Vanesco's recklessness (which may yet get him lynched if no better targets present themselves). Also Wos's shambly defence does Vanesco no favours, because it requires us to assume that Vanesco is terrible and should be disregarded if hes town. Sometimes it's enough to just neuter a townie, because as we all know, useless can be just as bad as scummy.
I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on; I even mentioned 'nooby or scum' in one of my first few posts about him. It wasn't a bait to get him going, but I wanted him to post more to see his reaction to the pressure; that is whether he reacted in a towny or scummy way (both nooby imo). I got my answer and unvoted accordingly. Call it wishy-washy if you will but I have provided reasoning for everything I have done all day and been completely transparent with my reads and questioning. As far as the 'bite me in the ass' comments, I can't talk about one of those, but I've been systematically wrong on newbie reads a lot, so it is something I am particularly paranoid about. I was wrong about Koshi in the first game I was exposed to him as scum, and I was also wrong about Chairman Ray in a recent game of his. It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now.
Other thoughts:
If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion.
Also gumshoe, I hate to drop this card but do you honestly think at this point that the most active and engaging person in the thread is scum?
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Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe?
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lololol the floodgates have opened! Bring it on, hataz.
Sn0---my only scumgame was probably the game with the lowest proportional activity in my history, though to be fair I did that calculation last ages ago, and one scumgame does not a meta make.
Onegu - opportunistic as fuck. You're all over me and liking what I do and now that gumshoe posts some walls you turn on me like a rabid dog. Don't make me put you down. Come to think of it, 'rabid dog' is a good example for you turning on hzflank too. You're rubbin' me all sorts of 'the wrong way' all of a sudden.
I'm not surprised no one has called me out, I was surprised no one called me out SPECIFICALLY about the point regarding the 'bite-me-in-the-ass/wishy-washiness' because it's a really easy 'case' to make as town or scum and people do that shit all the time to contribute. Requires very little effort. And please, activity is certainly not my only defense; why is that the only thing you felt was relevant enough to comment on?
Let's hear you come up with something this game that someone else hasn't done first, then we can talk, k boyo?
Gumshoe I will address your recent stuff a little later when I have more time; i like discussing with you so it would be nice to get you off of my case so we can go somewhere productive.
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lol I wish I rolled scum. Or even 3P (even though this game doesn't have I think).
I'm sick of VT.
Sn0 we can have it out now if you'd like. I'm bored and I'm here, though no ability to dive atm.
Also do you have anything more concrete to say about onegu besides weak suspicion? Because I could theoretically be on board for an Onegu lynch, but I want to do some more looky looky before I'm sure.
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On November 05 2013 01:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
Also u were 3p in that game we played not so long ago. The one where you were shot as Survivor N1 right after BlazingHand claimed survivor as scum :D
I KNOW
I had so many grand plans for that game.
Fucking scum shooting me. I was so hoping they'd fucked themselves over by claiming 3P then shooting/revealing me but town was shitty that game.
It was such a stupid reason for being shot too---I wasn't even around for like 28h so couldn't use my ##Hide (not that I would have probably) but I hadn't done shit and yet somehow scum were afraid of my potential or something.
In any case I haven't played it nearly as often as town but I personally feel like I'd probably be a better scum/3P player than town. It's a combination of that and the fact that I barely get to do it which makes me so disappointed I keep rolling VT.
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On November 05 2013 01:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
No I never have stuff on Onegu thats the problem. Sneakiest mofo on the planet.
Can you.....try?
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On November 05 2013 02:14 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 17:56 EchelonTee wrote:On November 04 2013 10:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am sooo uncomfortably unfamiliar with this player list.. I think Syl, WoS, and maybe Sn0 are the only people I've played with?
OH lol and rayn ofc Oh Thrawn, can you tell me what you think of Syl since you've played with him before? I don't think I've ever played with mafia syl. As town he's lurky and people always want to lynch him even though they know better. As for this game I'm not worried abotu him atm. WOS: what do you think about the entrances of gumshoe and sn0_man
Gumshoe's entrance is solid. I mean, he's wrong, but it's at least everything you want to see from a townie.
Sn0 I'm pretty meh on. I was trying to encourage him to contribute something on a topic he seemed to feel something about but he didn't really offer much.
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On November 05 2013 02:25 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 01:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
lololol the floodgates have opened! Bring it on, hataz.
Sn0---my only scumgame was probably the game with the lowest proportional activity in my history, though to be fair I did that calculation last ages ago, and one scumgame does not a meta make.
Onegu - opportunistic as fuck. You're all over me and liking what I do and now that gumshoe posts some walls you turn on me like a rabid dog. Don't make me put you down. Come to think of it, 'rabid dog' is a good example for you turning on hzflank too. You're rubbin' me all sorts of 'the wrong way' all of a sudden.
I'm not surprised no one has called me out, I was surprised no one called me out SPECIFICALLY about the point regarding the 'bite-me-in-the-ass/wishy-washiness' because it's a really easy 'case' to make as town or scum and people do that shit all the time to contribute. Requires very little effort. And please, activity is certainly not my only defense; why is that the only thing you felt was relevant enough to comment on?
Let's hear you come up with something this game that someone else hasn't done first, then we can talk, k boyo?
Gumshoe I will address your recent stuff a little later when I have more time; i like discussing with you so it would be nice to get you off of my case so we can go somewhere productive. Where did I say I like what you were doing in this game, I said I respect you as a person but never mentioned your play in the game until just now. Second go back and reread my first post on hzflank, its not just a attack, I call out his logic on umasi. It wasnt until I saw his back to being a jerk post that I talked about a policy lynch.
Alright fair point---I guess it was feerings I got from you around that time that you were basically hanging on what I was saying at the time. The rest stands. Are you going to respond to my second paragraph?
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On November 05 2013 02:39 Vanesco wrote:I don't like how WoS has been only on my case from basically the start of the game and his inconsistencies so far. He even points out to me not to talk about any games still going on but when Echelon does so here in direct response to WoS, he doesn't even mention it. These inconsistencies pop up many times in his play. He keeps on talking about the out I took from him when I even address that it was from Echelon and I disagree with him, yet he persist that it is because of his out. WoS says that "activity is not [his] only defense", however when you are confused why people would put suspicion on you you just say that you think your performance is decent and that you have a large filter. If somebody doesn't agree with your performance (which is why you might be on their scum list) then the only defense that's left is your filter. Overall I am leaning slightly scummy. I don't really like your reasoning sno_man on the lynch on Onegu. Especially as a Day 1 lynch I think it would not be a wise move just lynching somebody because you have a hard time reading them. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 12:04 thrawn2112 wrote:This vanesco thing, I could hardly be less interested in any of the arguments against him. I AM interested in WoS's post and want him to get back to me before the magic wears off. This is the only thing thrawn has posted that seems relevant so far. It seems like he's not interested in any arguments on me and just goes straight at WoS for his post on me. It seems more like a deflection off of me and onto WoS. Maybe there was something more he wanted to say about WoS but he doesn't really have any useful information apart from the part i quoted above. Yes it was his special day but I do not like what he has contributed in the game so far. My two strongest town reads in the game so far is Echelon and Sylencia. Echelon has made posts that make sense to me and his response to OO saying that Echelon was going "bat-shit" seems very level headed. I was comfortable with Sylencia's first response to my first post and he has stuck true to everything that he has said from the start of the game.
My only defense is certainly not my filter as I have explained before (see what I wrote to gumshoe and will continue to do so after this). I am perfectly happy with my content as well as the size of my filter as I personally believe (despite perceived inconsistencies that people are real happy to bring up) that I have once again been completely transparent with my reads, been question and pushing when I feel something is off, and responded to pressure accordingly.
There's also something else that you and gumshoe neglect to mention which I will show in an upcoming post responding to his long posts: inconsistencies do not a scum make. You have to be able to explain why any inconsistencies that may or may not be present are likely to come from scum. Not only do I not believe I was inconsistent anywhere, I certainly do not believe you can show how I am scummy based on those inconsistencies.
For example you bring up ET's response to me which I never brought up again. Why is that indicative of scum OR inconsistent? I asked him a question, he answered it, I was satisfied.
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On November 05 2013 00:15 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? Why do I have to assume scum is playing bad? In fact this pond has been so shallow insofar, it's not really an accomplishment being the biggest fish. Speaking of accomplishments, I know the game hasnt gone on long enough but so far the biggest thing I've seen out of you is your waffling on Vanesco, and I've addresed that. Everything else you've said has been inconclusive, example Show nested quote +I need to have a close look at hzflank honestly---I need to go look back at how he played his newbies; specifically the scum game I coached. Reading his filter I am not largely satisfied with his defense of the Umasi suspicion and he hasn't done much else, though I can understand being discouraged by all the of unwarranted attacks.
(At least unwarranted in his view. On that note I really don't get your reaction to my perceived slight by hzflank, Onegu. I can definitely take care of myself and you really kinda flew off the handle. Was really bewildering o.O)
There have been very few votes actually placed so far this game, and a minute amount of suspicion on very few targets so it seems to me to be advantageous for scum to simply be satisfied with the status quo thus far and not move suspicion off of the targets who are already under question somewhat, both of whom I believe to be town presently.
Random thought/stream-of-consciousness (since I was reading hzflank's setup analysis which I liked): Would it ever be worth it to simply claim blue roles during the day? Yes we will lose someone immediately I suppose but is that an acceptable risk if it means we can track role usage (assuming no mis-elections I suppose)?
It may not be worth it I guess if we fuck up bad and elect multiple scum since they can lie about getting RBed and implicate a towny in a 2scum 1town election scenario---yeah come to think of it I think it all falls apart if we fuck up and elect scum since they can lie about checks as well, and the nature of the checks makes it a hell of a lot easier to lie (regarding something like Blaspheme, for example). Your all over the place in this particular post, saying you find hz suspicious and then talking about how you liked his setup analysis play later on, also you just sort of acknowledging the stagnation of this thread and let it rest at that... Nothing in here is really of any use, theres no hard cases or defences, it just feels like your pointing us in a direction you yourself havent even bothered to fully take yet. In general it feels like your spreading suspicion around hoping some one picks up on something. Also this point Show nested quote +If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion. My theory is that hes town and your scum, his actions and responses to yours do not absolve you in any way. Stubborn and independent does not equal attack someone who defends you... Your play just feels to tip toey for my liking, yes your active but in a cautious way and I dont consider town WOs the most careful of players. Also it's funny you find yourself transparent... I dont get that vibe at all, if you are town your baiting scum hard and while that may be smart and pro town it's certainly not honest, so I dont know where your getting this idea of yourself. Btw wheres the voting thread.
Alright inconclusivity---I haven't been able to do detailed filter diving/looking into past games until now. What I said about hzflank isn't inconsistent at all. Just because I like one post of his doesn't mean I like his filter on the whole which contains mostly nothing. That's really nitpicky from you gumshoe and I expect better. I fully intend to follow my train of though regarding hzflank once I can dive into his past games, which is exactly what I said in the first bolded section of my post. Not sure why you feel there is a problem there. Would you prefer if I just say nothing to the thread until I can write an essay at a time? Because sadly I'm pretty sure it's evident to you that is not how I play---I prefer stream-of-consciousness and will post whenever and whatever I feel.
And on that note---do you REALLY think my posting is 'tip-toeing?' Why the fuck would I as scum post every single thought that goes through my head for the town to read and obsess over like people have been, draw as much attention to myself as possible, and keep positive discussion going? That makes absolutely no sense, and again gumshoe I would figure you'd pick up on that. This kind of behaviour makes zero sense from a mafia standpoint (unless you wanted to make the argument that I'm attempting to spam up the thread with useless shit, about which I'd be pretty pissed if you called all of my posting useless). The fact that you wouldn't call me honest either is frustrating to me, because even in my one fucking scumgame I'm almost completely honest. Not to mention you have no way of proving that at all so it just amounts to an attack on my character. If there is one thing that can be said about my TL Mafia play, I have NEVER lied as town, and very rarely as even 3P or mafia.
On November 05 2013 00:39 gumshoe wrote:Also hate to spree post... But WOS what do you mean he took your out... Vanesca has had four posts since your defence of him and none of them adress you or your case. They are all concerning his stance on Umasi, your post had nothing to do with that, he ramped up his offence because everyone started poking him on it. This is the exact response of a head strong player, I fail to see your argument... The bigger question is why are you still so dead set on him? Weve established hes new, probally town, what more does pressing him acomplish other than the stifling of discussion? Do you still consider him a viable lynch? Furthermore I'm not a fan of this stuff right here. Show nested quote +I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on It reads as if you've already thought of all the holes in your play, you argue thats because noobies make for your most difficult reads but you've transfered that hesitance into play that coincidentally matches that of a cautious scum player anticipating every blow that comes their way. This combined with your many wishy washy posts and your aproach to vanesco is more than enough reason for me to suspect you.
Do you actually plan on picking apart everything I do and say? As far as the 'out' I gave Vanesco by means of my analysis of him and my unvoting---in my mind what ET posted and what I did amounts to the same thing.
I redact my earlier scumread on him and (hopefully this doesn't bite me in the ass) he is now noob town.
The OMGUS on Umasi, (OMGUS in my experience tends to be used by town way more often than scum) the blatant disregard for what a towny is 'supposed to do' (why call someone out for no reason whatsoever---only serves to draw attention to himself which he has certainly garnered). I would think a newbie scum would at the very least attempt to backtrack due to inherent guilt when being shown that what he has done is considered scummy here.
How is this not related to his aggressive stance on Umasi? Him ramping up his offense in response is exactly what I stated here I don't think a noobie scum would do. How is that unrelated exactly? So in my mind I suppose Vanesco took my out but in his he took ET's, but they are the basically the same thing and the beginning of my analysis to Vanesco was posted even before ET's questions, so we came up with them at similar points in time while thinking similar things---this gives me an incidental townread on ET btw.
As for the quote you mentioned---basically the way you set it up I have no way to not look scummy. You don't see anything towny in that whatsoever. If I leave my vote on him I look scummy because Vanesco is town. If I take it off I was making excuses for myself and setting it up. The fact that you have shown to refuse to see the possibility of ANYTHING towny in my play by the way you have attempted to tear apart everything I say and do leaves me troubled because I know you can be a strong force for town, but you're just not doing town a great service by acting this way.
At this point I'm finished responding to cases by you against me because I don't feel like there will be anything left to say---you'll either take what I have to say and weigh it and decide whether it makes sense from either point of view and come to the right decision, or you will continue to nitpick and further misrepresent what I am doing and saying to fit your read. Either way I don't feel like there is anything to gain by further discussing me.
Onto the subject of hzflank who I will be looking at shortly---Gumshoe what are YOUR thoughts on him?
Hell what are your thoughts on anyone aside from me?
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On November 05 2013 03:15 ObviousOne wrote:
Echelon rubs me the wrong way too. Need to go back and read a past filter or two from him to voice check.
Haha. Rubs.
Have you played with him before?
I have a cursory townread on him based on our coming up with similar thoughts around the same time re: Vanesco.
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Works for me.
Onegu, still waiting.
Maybe this will motivate you.
##Vote: Onegu
Sn0, you too. You guys are here, let's see something worthwhile.
Rayn, Where you at? Don't like the pokey-pokey. I want your help to lynch some scum. I thought we were supposed to be working together to achieve a greater goal here?
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EPT
